Should Zorn stay????

[Redskinmayhem]

Ok, here me out on this - I'm Zorn's biggest critic. I think Zorn and his staff are a huge part of this mess but that doesn't excuse JCamp, players not executing and Snydertatto in the least.

One thing that keeps entering my mind is this constant change that's taking place here in DC. At some point, we have to realize that we're rebuilding. We do have some exciting young players right now. Some of them haven't been given a chance to produce yet but that's partially because there are overpriced vets on the team in front of them that aren't pulling their weight. What I'm getting at is this - Should Zorn stay for another 2-3 years? Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he should be fired and his whole staff culled. It takes youth and energy to re-build a team. Obviously, Gibbs was brought in to WIN NOW. Marty was never given that chance. Spurrier clearly wasn't up to the task. I wonder if Zorn just needs more time. I'm not saying he isn't being out-coached and outclassed right now, HE IS, AND BADLY. but maybe he has to go through this to be a good/great coach for us. Are we as fans guilty of being as impatient as Dannyboy? I'm leaning towards yes. Zorn is clearly a good teacher. He appears to have a good relationship w/ his QB and the players in general. If they haven't "outed" him to the media after the loss to the Lion's, I'm pretty convinced they've got his back til the bitter end.

Those are some of the questions I keep asking myself. Yes it's Zorn's fault. His play calling sucks. Clock management, game management, Personnel management, game prep, etc. He's not a good HC right now. But there is "something" there. We all felt genuinely good after seeing that "Mic'd up" video with Jason last week. We all felt a bit more positive. Here's the rub - we as fans have to realize that we aren't winning a superbowl this year or next, even w/ the best coach at the helm. So maybe we should sit back and let Zorn do his thing...I'm not sure I feel that way but it's a thought.

Having said all that, there are some things that need to change on this team. Vinny needs to be washing jock straps. That's it, no more. We need a REAL GM. Zorn needs help rebuilding this once proud franchise and he can't do it with a yes-man toad boy like Vinny. It simply hasn't worked and it won't. Second, we need a new DC. Sorry Blache, you're a cool cat and I really like him as a person, but his schemes suck. We need a better coach w/ better schemes. Maybe a young disciple of the 3-4???? Maybe Jerry Gray? I don't know but that's another necessary change, IMHO. Third, the roster needs an overhaul. We need to get rid of anyone over 35 lol. We need to get rid of the high priced prima's like Moss, ARE, Smoot, and yes, maybe even Portis. We need to retain the promising youngsters and our few decent draft pics. LL, CHort, Rocky, Rak, Jarmon, Blades, etc. Lastly, we need to see what the other young guys really have to offer. Kelly, Devin, Fred Davis, Mason, Barnes, KMoore, Chris Wilson.

I would even go so far as to say, we need to bring in a real OC. I believe it's too much to handle for Zorn to be HC/OC. It's plausible that the less we put on Zorn's plate, the more he will prosper as a leader, a teacher and ultimately a HC that can lead us out of this 20 year funk.

Don't take this as vote to keep Zorn for the long haul. we still have 13 games to go. A lot remains to be seen. But maybe, just maybe, we're being as judgmental and as quick to pull the trigger as Danny is and we all know how much we loath him for that. Maybe, these are the things we need to ponder as fans, before reacting in the same fashion as the team owner would.

[Hr fan]

While the question posed is "do we keep Zorn" the discussion is far broader (and a good post IMO). But to be brief, whether Zorn is here or gone is decision that the GM must make ala Bethard/Gibbs. I would be focused solely on finding a Beathard.

[Keino]

Continuity for continuity's sake is part of the problem on our defense. No we should not keep Zorn. We should have never hired his flaky arse in the first place. He is out of his depth and is drowning every Sunday.

[Redskinmayhem]

Continuity for continuity's sake is part of the problem on our defense. No we should not keep Zorn. We should have never hired his flaky arse in the first place. He is out of his depth and is drowning every Sunday.

I may not be on the "Keep Zorn for a while" bandwagon yet, but I do want to see if he can improve during the remaining 13 games.

Blache however, I've seen enough of. I'm done w/ him and his cover 2 sham of a D.

[Biggie]

Zorn's not young, he's well into his 50s. His easy-going personality isn't a good fit for these soft players either - well, at least not if they want to win.

[joethefan]

found this on FB 20 minutes ago....this sums up my answer.....


Breaking news in DC area: The Redskins practice was delayed nearly 2 hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the field. Coach Zorn suspended practice and called the ... Read Morepolice and FBI. After analysis, FBI experts determined that the substance unknown to players was the GOAL LINE. Practice resumed after agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again this year.

the sooner we get rid of this crap (Vinne Zorn and Blache) we can start the healing process along with the hiring process...

Gut it out and start over...the right way...

[Redskinmayhem]

found this on FB 20 minutes ago....this sums up my answer.....


Breaking news in DC area: The Redskins practice was delayed nearly 2 hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the field. Coach Zorn suspended practice and called the ... Read Morepolice and FBI. After analysis, FBI experts determined that the substance unknown to players was the GOAL LINE. Practice resumed after agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again this year.

the sooner we get rid of this crap (Vinne Zorn and Blache) we can start the healing process along with the hiring process...

Gut it out and start over...the right way...

lol, hilarious. I wouldn't be opposed to gutting it. But whatever direction we go, we'd better have a GM and Coaching staff in place for the long haul.

[csquared]

found this on FB 20 minutes ago....this sums up my answer.....


Breaking news in DC area: The Redskins practice was delayed nearly 2 hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the field. Coach Zorn suspended practice and called the ... Read Morepolice and FBI. After analysis, FBI experts determined that the substance unknown to players was the GOAL LINE. Practice resumed after agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again this year.

the sooner we get rid of this crap (Vinne Zorn and Blache) we can start the healing process along with the hiring process...

Gut it out and start over...the right way...

Ok Ok this joke is old. This was being passed around when the Ravens went to that Super Bowl in 2001.

[joethefan]

Ok Ok this joke is old. This was being passed around when the Ravens went to that Super Bowl in 2001.


ok ok...I didn't know that, and it seems this is the right time to post it....lighten up...jeez...

[CarMike]

csquared, love the avatar. It hurts, but says it all.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

No he shouldnt stay. But if I had a choice between who should stay and go this very second, I'd say get rid of Greg Blatche.

[CarMike]

No he shouldnt stay. But if I had a choice between who should stay and go this very second, I'd say get rid of Greg Blatche.

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Blatche should be the first to go.

[shally]

Continuity for continuity's sake is part of the problem on our defense. No we should not keep Zorn. We should have never hired his flaky arse in the first place. He is out of his depth and is drowning every Sunday.

+ 1

i could not agree more.. we could have kept Norv for another 7-10 years and he would have still produced miserable results.. sometimes you simply have to recognize futility and cut your losses

Fire Zorn
Fire Smith
Fire Blache
Fire Cerrato
Fire Snyder (cant happen, but just wishing it would..)
Gut the team of players who take a paycheck and then disappear

wont happen all at once, or in some cases, even at all.. but that is what should happen

[Gravy]

Truth is...Dan has not been a great owner as far as FOOTBAL goes...and it trickles on down from here (insert Vinny joke and/or statement here). Without rehashing what's been said on 90 billion threads...I like Zorn, but he should have NEVER been HC. Unless a miracle of biblical proportions happen...I don't see this season getting ANY better.

[silverspring]

Too early to tell. I think all the fire zorn, keep zorn discussions shouldn't be bothered with until we have played half the season.

You know when gibbs 2.0 was here we had a come to jesus moment just about every season at around the halfway point or shortly thereafter. It seemed to happen like clockwork as the team regularly struggled the first half of the season. It entailed gibbs indicating the team had no identity, the players would have meetings, the town would be ripe with controversy over our team. It always seemed to happen just a little too late. At least in this year's edition it is happening after game 3 when there is still time left.

[Gunnar]

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Blatche should be the first to go.

Blanche had a Redskins Defense that was #4 in the NFL last year... behind #1 Steelers, #2 Ravens and #3 Eagles. Playing a 4-3 Defense. You can only ask so much from the defense when they have to be on the field over 30 minutes in the game and Offense in not converting any 3rd downs or scoring. what does any expect?

I do not believe Blanche Defense is the problem the problem is the Offense that is not producing.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

zorn,blache,and the rest of the staff but bugel,smith,and grey should all be canned.redskins need to drafta qb that they can let ply from day 1,and win.
like ryan,flacco,and sanchez did.my guess is it will be tebow.

[Redskinmayhem]

zorn,blache,and the rest of the staff but bugel,smith,and grey should all be canned.redskins need to drafta qb that they can let ply from day 1,and win.
like ryan,flacco,and sanchez did.my guess is it will be tebow.

Ugh...I like Teebow's heart but I'm not sold on him being an NFL level QB.

[smoak]

I've changed my stance. Zorn should stay. Nothing should change until Dan Snyder (in order of preference):

[1] Sells the team
[2] Wakes up and divorces himself from anything to do with the day to day
[3] Dies

[Death_Venom]

Ok, here me out on this - I'm Zorn's biggest critic. I think Zorn and his staff are a huge part of this mess but that doesn't excuse JCamp, players not executing and Snydertatto in the least.

One thing that keeps entering my mind is this constant change that's taking place here in DC. At some point, we have to realize that we're rebuilding. We do have some exciting young players right now. Some of them haven't been given a chance to produce yet but that's partially because there are overpriced vets on the team in front of them that aren't pulling their weight. What I'm getting at is this - Should Zorn stay for another 2-3 years? Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he should be fired and his whole staff culled. It takes youth and energy to re-build a team. Obviously, Gibbs was brought in to WIN NOW. Marty was never given that chance. Spurrier clearly wasn't up to the task. I wonder if Zorn just needs more time. I'm not saying he isn't being out-coached and outclassed right now, HE IS, AND BADLY. but maybe he has to go through this to be a good/great coach for us. Are we as fans guilty of being as impatient as Dannyboy? I'm leaning towards yes. Zorn is clearly a good teacher. He appears to have a good relationship w/ his QB and the players in general. If they haven't "outed" him to the media after the loss to the Lion's, I'm pretty convinced they've got his back til the bitter end.

Those are some of the questions I keep asking myself. Yes it's Zorn's fault. His play calling sucks. Clock management, game management, Personnel management, game prep, etc. He's not a good HC right now. But there is "something" there. We all felt genuinely good after seeing that "Mic'd up" video with Jason last week. We all felt a bit more positive. Here's the rub - we as fans have to realize that we aren't winning a superbowl this year or next, even w/ the best coach at the helm. So maybe we should sit back and let Zorn do his thing...I'm not sure I feel that way but it's a thought.

Having said all that, there are some things that need to change on this team. Vinny needs to be washing jock straps. That's it, no more. We need a REAL GM. Zorn needs help rebuilding this once proud franchise and he can't do it with a yes-man toad boy like Vinny. It simply hasn't worked and it won't. Second, we need a new DC. Sorry Blache, you're a cool cat and I really like him as a person, but his schemes suck. We need a better coach w/ better schemes. Maybe a young disciple of the 3-4???? Maybe Jerry Gray? I don't know but that's another necessary change, IMHO. Third, the roster needs an overhaul. We need to get rid of anyone over 35 lol. We need to get rid of the high priced prima's like Moss, ARE, Smoot, and yes, maybe even Portis. We need to retain the promising youngsters and our few decent draft pics. LL, CHort, Rocky, Rak, Jarmon, Blades, etc. Lastly, we need to see what the other young guys really have to offer. Kelly, Devin, Fred Davis, Mason, Barnes, KMoore, Chris Wilson.

I would even go so far as to say, we need to bring in a real OC. I believe it's too much to handle for Zorn to be HC/OC. It's plausible that the less we put on Zorn's plate, the more he will prosper as a leader, a teacher and ultimately a HC that can lead us out of this 20 year funk.

Don't take this as vote to keep Zorn for the long haul. we still have 13 games to go. A lot remains to be seen. But maybe, just maybe, we're being as judgmental and as quick to pull the trigger as Danny is and we all know how much we loath him for that. Maybe, these are the things we need to ponder as fans, before reacting in the same fashion as the team owner would.

I am curious as to just how your starting QB is supposed execute with crumbling O-line we have, and I am decidely against removing the best player on OFFENSE (Portis) just for the sake of doing so. I do believe youar ecorrect inthat our roster needs an over-haul but that won't happen unitl it decided (probaly in the off-season) if Zorn retains his position or is fired. Then once we have made that decision we should draft (or sign) players that will adaquately fit that scheme or style of offense. As for the defense i think we have an ok set-up but need a real Defensive Coordinator because Blache is just not it.

[Redskinmayhem]

I am curious as to just how your starting QB is supposed execute with crumbling O-line we have, and I am decidely against removing the best player on OFFENSE (Portis) just for the sake of doing so. I do believe youar ecorrect inthat our roster needs an over-haul but that won't happen unitl it decided (probaly in the off-season) if Zorn retains his position or is fired. Then once we have made that decision we should draft (or sign) players that will adaquately fit that scheme or style of offense. As for the defense i think we have an ok set-up but need a real Defensive Coordinator because Blache is just not it.

Jason makes poor decisions plain and simple. There were multiple times he checked down to covered receivers while others stood open. He also routinely throws into double or even triple coverage. How many times does he throw to a receiver that is 1 yard or 2 short of the marker? Yes, the receiver is to blame but so is Jason. He has a history of making poor decision, O-line be damned. Anyone can be a good QB w/ a perfect O-line. Once again, I'm not saying it's all on Jason but he's part of the problem.

I love CP. I'm driving the "CP still has IT" bandwagon. Problem is, our O-line can't block for him and honestly, he's not the same back he was in Denver, or even the first 2 years here. Yes, he stil has IT, but he's got much less of IT now. That being said, we need a Change of pace back and maybe even a back who is going to step up and take his place. Neither Betts or Rock are that back, or even the C.O.P. back. We'd better find that back somewhere and soon. If we have an uncapped year next year, CP is gone. Mark my words. Besides, an overhaul is an overhaul. CP has a lot of mileage on him and he isn't cheap. Those are the players you get rid of.

Our front 7 are either old (Griff/PDan/Wynn/Fletch) or Getting old (Carter). We need fresh blood, plain and simple. Goldston and Monty are role players, Orakpo is a stud but misused and will likely be ruined (see Chris Wilson). Lets see what Jarmon has. Rocky is nothing more than a serviceable starter. We don't have a true replacement for Marcus Washington. I'm convinced Blades will never be a Solid perennial starter for us, just depth. Smoot is done. Carlos thinks he's worth more than he deserves and DHall is quite expensive for what he's providing on the field.

Blache is a joke. If this were Madden '10, I'd be scoring 140 ppg on his precious # 4 D from 2009.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

if zorn knows as much about football as he should after being involved with it 50 years,he should know after looking that he has bitten off enough to chew for 10 lifetimes,and he should get the hell out of the situation he's in!
the guy has to be smart enough to know he's a really nice guy,but a very crappy coach!!!

[NamVet4]

Should Zorn stay????

No . . . After the reading the OP post and thinking all about it I cannot conceive that Coach Zorn can continue as Head Coach... after Sundays game, win or loose... it's time for Coach Zorn to go! Realistically there is very little factual evidence that supports a hope for a 8 - 8 season at best.

[Redskinmayhem]

Should Zorn stay????

No . . . After the reading the OP post and thinking all about it I cannot conceive that Coach Zorn can continue as Head Coach... after Sundays game, win or loose... it's time for Coach Zorn to go! Realistically there is very little factual evidence that supports a hope for a 8 - 8 season at best.

for this season? 8-8 would be a good record. I guess I meant over the long run. Can Zorn consistently show improvement and furthermore, are we giving Zorn a fair shot? The more I learn about Zorn, the more I think his time up.

[Death_Venom]

Jason makes poor decisions plain and simple. There were multiple times he checked down to covered receivers while others stood open. He also routinely throws into double or even triple coverage. How many times does he throw to a receiver that is 1 yard or 2 short of the marker? Yes, the receiver is to blame but so is Jason. He has a history of making poor decision, O-line be damned. Anyone can be a good QB w/ a perfect O-line. Once again, I'm not saying it's all on Jason but he's part of the problem.

I love CP. I'm driving the "CP still has IT" bandwagon. Problem is, our O-line can't block for him and honestly, he's not the same back he was in Denver, or even the first 2 years here. Yes, he stil has IT, but he's got much less of IT now. That being said, we need a Change of pace back and maybe even a back who is going to step up and take his place. Neither Betts or Rock are that back, or even the C.O.P. back. We'd better find that back somewhere and soon. If we have an uncapped year next year, CP is gone. Mark my words. Besides, an overhaul is an overhaul. CP has a lot of mileage on him and he isn't cheap. Those are the players you get rid of.

Our front 7 are either old (Griff/PDan/Wynn/Fletch) or Getting old (Carter). We need fresh blood, plain and simple. Goldston and Monty are role players, Orakpo is a stud but misused and will likely be ruined (see Chris Wilson). Lets see what Jarmon has. Rocky is nothing more than a serviceable starter. We don't have a true replacement for Marcus Washington. I'm convinced Blades will never be a Solid perennial starter for us, just depth. Smoot is done. Carlos thinks he's worth more than he deserves and DHall is quite expensive for what he's providing on the field.

Blache is a joke. If this were Madden '10, I'd be scoring 140 ppg on his precious # 4 D from 2009.

I am going to disagree with you here and say that Campbell is much less of the problem than most would here would have you believe. As far as his decision making I honestly have not seen too many issues in that regard.

Portis on the other hand has not seen any real decline in his performance. I would argue that better coaching and far superior O-line in Denver lead to Portis have better numbers in Denver.

[skinsfan36]

if he wins the next 3 or 4.so no.... bye zorn

[sinskin]

Haven't seen this up....

Pretty much JLC reading the posts here and then writing his story lol.


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d813163b0&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[redskin_rich]

This thread, like many others this week, is a grasping at straws. The only suitable answer is that no one survives this mess at the end of the season.
Start with dismissing Vinny, Zorn and Blache. Then Snyder must humble himself and hire a GM with a proven track record and give him full rein. If that can't be accomplished, then promote the best scout we have (Morrocco Brown?) and give him everything he needs, while staying out of the way. From that point, let the GM choose the list of candidates for HC and do the interview process accordingly. Then the HC can choose his staff and finally implement the systems and let the GM and HC decide who stays and who goes, as far as the personnel.

All the while, Snyder doesn't talk with anyone on the team about anything other than when their wives and kids birthdays are, and what would make them happy to have delivered to their homes, via FedEx, on that day. Nothing inspires people to work hard and succeed more than happiness.

/pipe dream

[colkurtz]

Zorn needs to replaced by a coach such as Buges. The longer he stays at the helm the faster this team will sink. He's simply not HC or OC material. He's too nice, he gets out-coached every game and his play-calling is poor. Time to admit the mistake and move on.

[redskin_rich]

Zorn needs to replaced by a coach such as Buges. The longer he stays at the helm the faster this team will sink. He's simply not HC or OC material. He's too nice, he gets out-coached every game and his play-calling is poor. Time to admit the mistake and move on.
Man, I usually don't disagree with you much but this will be twice tonight. Firing a coach this early, especially a coach that calls his offense and tutors his QB, will only guarantee utter failure for the remainder of the season.

Buges??? What does he know about this offense? Zorn, smartly, adjusted his system to Buges blocking schemes and terminology.

[colkurtz]

Man, I usually don't disagree with you much but this will be twice tonight. Firing a coach this early, especially a coach that calls his offense and tutors his QB, will only guarantee utter failure for the remainder of the season.

Buges??? What does he know about this offense? Zorn, smartly, adjusted his system to Buges blocking schemes and terminology.

Buges has been a coach before. I think he will have the will to sit players down who aren't performing. I think he can shake things up and let players know that they're in a tryout for this remaining season.

I'm most disappointed with Zorn because he won't make the tough choices regarding players or coaches. If Snyder lets Zorn stay for the rest of the season, I think the team will give up on him sooner rather than later. This may have benefits - like getting a high draft pick. On the other hand newbie players like Mitchell may not get enough sunlight to see if they can make a difference.

Personally, I think Snyder will keep Zorn for the entire season. Then let Zorn resign or fire him.

[joethefan]

Buges has been a coach before. I think he will have the will to sit players down who aren't performing. I think he can shake things up and let players know that they're in a tryout for this remaining season.

I'm most disappointed with Zorn because he won't make the tough choices regarding players or coaches. If Snyder lets Zorn stay for the rest of the season, I think the team will give up on him sooner rather than later. This may have benefits - like getting a high draft pick. On the other hand newbie players like Mitchell may not get enough sunlight to see if they can make a difference.

Personally, I think Snyder will keep Zorn for the entire season. Then let Zorn resign or fire him.

How do you know that he's allowed to. I thought their was report that last year Zorn was reprimanded by Danny ad Vinnie for addressing Portis on the Sideline?...So how do you know that he has the power to do it....he just seems too damn Chipper in those press conferences for me...not enough ****'s for me....

If they lose Zorn won't be able to survive another week like this past one. I guarantee you, even if he makes it through..he'll resign. Too much heat for him to handle...IMO

Danny will easily agree, and introduce his next coach two days later....