George Michael confirms that Dan Snyder calls the shots [Merged]

[akhhorus]

As this was some major revelation, Mike Lombardi(and others) have reported the same thing, but this has to be final confirmation...right?

Link (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/george_michael_on_why_fans_hat.html?hpid=news-col-blog)

As for Cerrato, Michael was asked who really makes the personnel decisions.

"Let me tell you the truth: Dan does make I think most of those big-type decisions," Michael said. "He says 'Let's get this guy, let's get that guy.' And the guy that takes the heat for it--and it's why I think he's never gotten fired--is Vinny Cerrato.

Now, this doesn't exonerate Vinny at all. He could walk away at any time.

[FunBunch5]

Now it is official Danny truly never did learn his lesson, he still thinks he understands football so he won't turn over the controls. This is why I am not confident a big name coach is hired next year.

[LATrueRedskin]

Yeah, I heard that interview live. Love George Michael, he reminds me of being a little kid when the Redskins were good.

Like you said, this isn't a shock to me. I found it hard to believe Snyder was sitting back and letting Vinny make the moves. The Haynesworth signing has Snyder written all over it.

[hogs86]

I thought these two hit the nail on the head.

1. On the Marty experiment: "Here's the deal guys, he should never have hired Marty Schottenheimer....I said to [Snyder's relatives], I said folks, within six months you will regret the decision to have hired Marty Schottenheimer. The first day of training camp, Fred Drasner, who owned the team, turned to me and said, 'We oughta fire this son of a bitch today.' You don't know what Marty Schottenheimer is, you don't know what he is until you live with him, until you work with him.



2. On the Future: "There IS NO QUICK FIX. If anyone thinks anyone can turn this around over night, they are badly mistaken....Here is the deal: There IS NO QUICK FIX. Who's been the face of the franchise? Clinton Portis. What has Clinton Portis done for me lately? Everybody knows that I'm in the tank for Clinton, I love the guy. I don't want him to deliver my loaf of bread right now! He can't carry the dadgum loaf of bread to my front door much less get me one yard at the 4th-and-goal at the 1, so I don't want that. So I put $100 million on Albert Haynesworth--ooooh, I hurt my hip, I can't play the next 25 plays. And then I've got Jason, God love you, Jason, if I can see Antwaan Randle-El standing by himself with no one within 100 yards of him...then the quarterback's got to see it.

"And when things like that are happening, it becomes very frustrating. And that's why Zorn says we're making improvements, what he should have said was folks there were plays where we had guys that were ready to score touchdowns but we didn't get the ball in their hands. That I would have understood."

[WarEagle]

George Michael says Dan and Vin are misunderstood and not good at building bridges. George is so full of (bleep). After the interview, I'm sure he grabbed his piss boy bucket and headed off to Ashburn.

[RedskinsDave]

I said this years ago and caught hell from some folks who thought Gibbs changed things. I was right. Too bad.

[akhhorus]

I said this years ago and caught hell from some folks who thought Gibbs changed things. I was right. Too bad.

Gibbs had some, if not a lot of, say(how much is a good question). There's a clear difference from the Skins' personnel moves(most especially in drafting) from the Danny era(1999, 2000, 2002-03, 08-09) and Gibbs 2. I'm sure Danny had major involvement(in fact, we know that from the Briggs trade discussions), but it appears that Gibbs had final say.

[redskin_rich]

I said this years ago and caught hell from some folks who thought Gibbs changed things. I was right. Too bad.Yeah, I probably was one of the blissfully ignorant that argued with you. I just don't know how you have been able to continue buying tickets and giving up so many hours of your weekend for so little return, all the while, knowing what a fraud Snyder is. I just can't do it.
Maybe it's because you don't have kids yet? :)

[Death_Venom]

How I wish Danny would play the good little owner and get himself a real GM and say "You run the show I will sit my luxury box and watch...."

Sadly enuff we are stuck with V Cerrato who knows little (if anything) about football operations, and Jim "We are improving" Zorn, along with Zorns side-kick "I cant run a defense" Blache I suppose.....

[MoonshineDelight]

Maybe the best interview about the Redskins in years.

http://cstvpodcast.cstv.com.edgesuite.net/mikewise/Wise100109_Seg._02.mp3

[redskin_rich]

George Michael says Dan and Vin are misunderstood and not good at building bridges. George is so full of (bleep). After the interview, I'm sure he grabbed his piss boy bucket and headed off to Ashburn.
How long did you live in DC? My 40 years here say that this is the most inaccurate, misinformed post I have ever seen.

George kisses no ones ass.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

See my posts in the "there is no hope with Snyder" thread for my opinion on this matter.

It's gonna be a long century folks.

[sinskin]

Wow.... one of the most interesting articles on the skins I have ever seen.


When it all goes bad everybody lays it all out there don't they!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Here's a question for the general public:

Even if Snyder had ZERO say in any personnel decision, and instead it was Vinny who called all the shots, who'se fault would the current situation be? Vinny's for being a brain-dead retard, or Danny's for hiring and then giving full control to the brain-dead retard?

[bigcmr]

We as fans are going to be screwed for a long time.

[smoak]

Gibbs had some, if not a lot of, say(how much is a good question). There's a clear difference from the Skins' personnel moves(most especially in drafting) from the Danny era(1999, 2000, 2002-03, 08-09) and Gibbs 2. I'm sure Danny had major involvement(in fact, we know that from the Briggs trade discussions), but it appears that Gibbs had final say.

Completely agree, and I might have been one of the cantankerous ones b/c it was the most frustrating 4 years for me. This season was expected...

IMO, if Larry Michael isn't fired, they this was all an approved spin job to try and convince the next coaching candidate that the Redskins had their "Festivus" and are healing. Its all for show... I hate Snyder. This franchise may never recover from his ignorant egotistical blundering stupidity.

Im thinking of making "East EndZone Crew" tee shirts that call out Snyder.

Any thoughts from the creative folks here??

[smoak]

Here's a question for the general public:

Even if Snyder had ZERO say in any personnel decision, and instead it was Vinny who called all the shots, who'se fault would the current situation be? Vinny's for being a brain-dead retard, or Danny's for hiring and then giving full control to the brain-dead retard?

It always starts at the top... Its all Snyder's fault first and foremost. Snyder has no damned business being in the damned locker room. EVER. We need a coach who is strong enough to kick Snyder in the teeth.

And even if it is off topic, the fact that dip**** Zorn says "we're getting better" just sickens me. I hate all of them.

[smoak]

I'm listening to this now, and unlike many of you, I grew up outside of the DC market. But George is speaking the absolute truth.

While I will not absolve Cerrato, I could not agree more that he is a proven football guy. His sin.... Is that he won't tell Dan Snyder to STHU. God I am so angry this morning. Instead of tailgating, I might protest at the game.

I hate what that bastard has done to the Redskins.

[Keino]

How long did you live in DC? My 40 years here say that this is the most inaccurate, misinformed post I have ever seen.

George kisses no ones ass.

I would really encourage you to listen to the podcast and then reevaluate this post.

[Redskinmayhem]

Yeah, I heard that interview live. Love George Michael, he reminds me of being a little kid when the Redskins were good.



Yep same here! great memories, especially Sunday nights at 11:30pm watching the game recap on the "George Michael Sports Machine" instead of doing my homework due the next morning!

[Redskinmayhem]

it does make sense that Cerratto isn't making the decisions, thus he gets a pass from Snyder.

Bottom line we can all agree on, Snyder needss to back of and get a real GM in here. IF CErratto was a good football buy, it doesn't matter - HE doesn't have the sack to stand tall in front of the danny. WE need a new GM and a fresh start.

[SkinsKY]

Not that we needed another confirmation of Snyder running/ruining the show, but it gives my buddies (Browns' fans) another card in the "Who is the worst franchise?" discussion.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Here's a question for the general public:

Even if Snyder had ZERO say in any personnel decision, and instead it was Vinny who called all the shots, who'se fault would the current situation be? Vinny's for being a brain-dead retard, or Danny's for hiring and then giving full control to the brain-dead retard?

It would make me feel better knowing Vinny was making the decisions. With Vinny, Snyder could eventually wake up and fire him. No one is firing Snyder, so under all circumstances we are stuck with the same brain-dead retard, unless he some day stops being a brain-dead retard. Good luck.

[Redskinmayhem]

Not that we needed another confirmation of Snyder running/ruining the show...

true but this does make alot of sense. Marty won 8 of the last 11 games and got fired lol. Zorn does the opposite, blows a 6-2 record and gets another year? Probably all goes back to Marty having all the power.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I would really encourage you to listen to the podcast and then reevaluate this post.

I have not yet listened to the interview. I did read the posted transcripts. Let me ask you and everyone else with a feel for George Michael, what is the motivation for this interview? It is kind of wierd a good friend of Snyder and the organization just shows up one day with all of these revelations. Was it discussed previously with Snyder? Did he go there hoping to take heat off of Zorn and Vinny and put it on Campbell, Portis (guys who won't be here soon) and Snyder who has broad shoulders and could handle it?

[redskin_rich]

I would really encourage you to listen to the podcast and then reevaluate this post.
I read all the highlights. Perhaps you could enlighten me where the backside smooching is.

[Keino]

I have not yet listened to the interview. I did read the posted transcripts. Let me ask you and everyone else with a feel for George Michael, what is the motivation for this interview? It is kind of wierd a good friend of Snyder and the organization just shows up one day with all of these revelations. Was it discussed previously with Snyder? Did he go there hoping to take heat off of Zorn and Vinny and put it on Campbell, Portis (guys who won't be here soon) and Snyder who has broad shoulders and could handle it?

You can listen to it Here. (http://www.cbssports.com/local/dc/podcasts/sports-junkies)

I'd be interested in your thoughts after hearing it. It comes across differently listening to it as opposed to reading it. In my opinion anyways.

[joethefan]

WOOW!!! That is incredible....this team will go nowhere...I pray all this heat gets to Snyder and he gets rid of Vinnie, Zorn and Blache...WOW!!!!....George is Classic...if you grew up in this area and didn't like him you didn't like sports at all......

I am so glad I grew up on this guy...i remember how I would try my best to sneak up to watch sports machine on Sundays at 11:30....man such memories.

[Keino]

I read all the highlights. Perhaps you could enlighten me where the backside smooching is.

In listening to the interview he was smooching the backsides of Vinny, Dan and Sonny pretty overtly. And he has always smooched the backside of Sir Gibbs, even back in the Redskins Report Days.

[redskin_rich]

In listening to the interview he was smooching the backsides of Vinny, Dan and Sonny pretty overtly. And he has always smooched the backside of Sir Gibbs, even back in the Redskins Report Days.
I can't find it in that mess on the link. George has always been tight with Gibbs but I think that was a function of respect for the unequaled access he had to he coach. I've always known George to be a straight shooter, call 'em as he sees 'em. At least more so than any other sportscaster.

[BurgundyNGold]

Gibbs had some, if not a lot of, say(how much is a good question). There's a clear difference from the Skins' personnel moves(most especially in drafting) from the Danny era(1999, 2000, 2002-03, 08-09) and Gibbs 2. I'm sure Danny had major involvement(in fact, we know that from the Briggs trade discussions), but it appears that Gibbs had final say.
Meh. Gibbs is a class act and a good soldier. That said, he walked away with a year left on his deal. Spurrier couldn't wait to leave either after being promised things that never happened. Both left a good bit of money on the table, as well.

I honestly think that both of these guys were no different than any of the fans in that Danny hard sold them and promised them the moon and stars to get them in. Once in, the promises never materialized. Or, at least, never materialized to the levels promised. Sooner or later, they saw through it and jumped ship.

Interesting thought: How much of the 6-2 start last year was Gibbs carryover from a playoff season the year before (including a 4-0 run to finish the season) and how much of it was Zorn just being lucky? To me, the former makes a lot more sense, which means that Gibbs walked away from a potential 10-12 win team when he left, as he would never let a team melt down like that. Sure, it's conjecture, but it adds something to the weight of Gibbs' leaving.

[Redskinmayhem]

^Gibbs 2.0 went throught a lot here. Sean's death took a huge toll on him. It's almost as if it aged him.

[Keino]

I can't find it in that mess on the link. George has always been tight with Gibbs but I think that was a function of respect for the unequaled access he had to he coach. I've always known George to be a straight shooter, call 'em as he sees 'em. At least more so than any other sportscaster.

What do you mean you can't find it? It is clearly labeled George Michael Interview dated 10/1. It's 27 Minutes long.

George has been a homer's homer. Yea, sometimes he will ask the pointed, tough question, but his job required it. IMO he was always kissing Gibbs' ass, as much as we all did, because he is as much a fan as we are.

George was no Glenn Brenner, that's for sure.

[redskin_rich]

What do you mean you can't find it? It is clearly labeled George Michael Interview dated 10/1. It's 27 Minutes long.

George has been a homer's homer. Yea, sometimes he will ask the pointed, tough question, but his job required it. IMO he was always kissing Gibbs' ass, as much as we all did, because he is as much a fan as we are.

George was no Glenn Brenner, that's for sure.
This is a small sample of what I see on that link, can you find it in this mess?:

Show and Date Duration Description
10/1 Seg. 13- Bill Rohland in studio 00:03:40 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 12- Chris Russell 00:07:04 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 11- Why chicks bang, Bruce the Hugger 00:17:13 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 10- Craig Davis from Fantasyfootball.com 00:18:56 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 9- Former Gov. Ehrlich 00:08:06 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 8- OLT, Skins, Terps 00:16:38 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 7- Caps play-by-play Joe Benanadi 00:18:02 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 6- Skins, Clinton Portis 00:13:21 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 5- Ernie Grunfeld interview 00:11:28 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 4- Open Line Thursday 00:14:43 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 3- Tiger Woods 00:07:38 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 2- Gambling, Kimbo Slice 00:18:23 The Sports Junkies Download
10/1 Seg. 1- Fox Rocks goes late 00:18:29 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 13- Mike Wise and Bill Rohland in studio 00:02:30 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 12- EB's journalism ethics 00:08:37 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 11- Caps winger Mike Knuble 00:15:30 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 10- Fredericksburg Scott, Bret's donk 95 move 00:17:35 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 9- Skins rumors 00:09:21 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 8- Caron Butler interview 00:14:11 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 7- The Lurch and Cakes stories from Wiz camp 00:18:41 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 6- Wizards hookup 00:11:56 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 5- Interview with Mike Miller 00:20:11 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 4- Crazy Connections 00:19:48 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30- Seg. 3- Skins and calls 00:09:59 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 2- Bags over the head 00:14:36 The Sports Junkies Download
9/30 Seg. 1- Being at Wizards training camp 00:21:35 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 12- Bill Rohland in studio 00:01:32 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 11- Dave Johnson and Flip Saunders 00:22:24 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 10- Charley Casserly calls in 00:17:57 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 9- Dan Hellie from NBC 4 00:07:08 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 8- Interview with James Brown 00:18:30 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 7- Greatness, Sports Page 00:17:26 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 6- National Science Foundation, NFL 00:09:53 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 5- More Skins, calls 00:12:38 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 4- Calls, dinner in Richmond 00:19:07 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 3- More Skins 00:06:32 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 2- Wiz, calls on Skins 00:16:11 The Sports Junkies Download
9/29 Seg. 1- Live from Wizards camp 00:20:22 The Sports Junkies Download
9/28 Seg. 13- More scores and sports news 00:06:54 The Sports Junkies Download

Edit- sorry about that enormous wall of crap.

[BurgundyNGold]

This is a small sample of what I see on that link, can you find it in this mess?:
That's the wrong list. Steinberg's link goes to the wrong place.

Look here (10/1 Segment 2):
http://www.cbssports.com/local/dc/podcasts/mike-wise-show

[hogs86]

I truly do think DS does want to win as much as any redskins fan. But he does not know how. All I have to say is if he is willing to outspend the rest of the league to acquire the best players money can buy, why not just hire the best GM money can buy and let him do his job and set back and be a fan?:sun:

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I truly do think DS does want to win as much as any redskins fan. But he does not know how. All I have to say is if he is willing to outspend the rest of the league to acquire the best players money can buy, why not just hire the best GM money can buy and let him do his job and set back and be a fan?:sun:

His ego I guess. He probably still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

[shally]

Meh. Gibbs is a class act and a good soldier. That said, he walked away with a year left on his deal. Spurrier couldn't wait to leave either after being promised things that never happened. Both left a good bit of money on the table, as well.

I honestly think that both of these guys were no different than any of the fans in that Danny hard sold them and promised them the moon and stars to get them in. Once in, the promises never materialized. Or, at least, never materialized to the levels promised. Sooner or later, they saw through it and jumped ship.

Interesting thought: How much of the 6-2 start last year was Gibbs carryover from a playoff season the year before (including a 4-0 run to finish the season) and how much of it was Zorn just being lucky? To me, the former makes a lot more sense, which means that Gibbs walked away from a potential 10-12 win team when he left, as he would never let a team melt down like that. Sure, it's conjecture, but it adds something to the weight of Gibbs' leaving.

last year's start was a result of a couple of factors:

no one had a "book" on zorn and his offense, and he took some chances in his playcalling and it paid off

the offensive line was healthy and mature

we got lucky. i think the Cards game was won because a penalty called back a score..

[Keino]

That's the wrong list. Steinberg's link goes to the wrong place.

Look here (10/1 Segment 2):
http://www.cbssports.com/local/dc/podcasts/mike-wise-show


I used that link to find it last night. I wonder why it got changed.

Sorry Rich.

[akhhorus]

Meh. Gibbs is a class act and a good soldier. That said, he walked away with a year left on his deal. Spurrier couldn't wait to leave either after being promised things that never happened. Both left a good bit of money on the table, as well.

I honestly think that both of these guys were no different than any of the fans in that Danny hard sold them and promised them the moon and stars to get them in. Once in, the promises never materialized. Or, at least, never materialized to the levels promised. Sooner or later, they saw through it and jumped ship.

That really doesn't contradict what I posited lol. I agree that they both jumped ship because they saw how screwed up things were(in fact, one of those two coaches hinted that to me personally one time, and I'm not going to say anything more about that).

Until Snyder gives up control, ain't nothing changing.


Interesting thought: How much of the 6-2 start last year was Gibbs carryover from a playoff season the year before (including a 4-0 run to finish the season) and how much of it was Zorn just being lucky? To me, the former makes a lot more sense, which means that Gibbs walked away from a potential 10-12 win team when he left, as he would never let a team melt down like that. Sure, it's conjecture, but it adds something to the weight of Gibbs' leaving.

I agree with Shally. Teams didn't have any book on Zorn, and by the time they caught up with Zorn's offense, Samuels was hurt and defenses knew what to look for.

[MoonshineDelight]

Maybe the best interview about the Redskins in years.

http://cstvpodcast.cstv.com.edgesuite.net/mikewise/Wise100109_Seg._02.mp3

Here is the direct link to the MP3

[Redskinmayhem]

Man, even though we knew most of what George said, It was amazing for him to come out and say all of it on the air.

I love George, he's awesome. Crazy, but awesome.

[Redskinsfan#56]

It always starts at the top... Its all Snyder's fault first and foremost. Snyder has no damned business being in the damned locker room. EVER. We need a coach who is strong enough to kick Snyder in the teeth.

And even if it is off topic, the fact that dip**** Zorn says "we're getting better" just sickens me. I hate all of them.

We had a damn good coach in Marty Schottemheimer. He and Snyder couldn't co-exist so Snyder released him after one season.

No reputable coach would attach himself to Snyder. Whoever does next after Zorn is after his money. 5 M per season for a HC is hard to turn down for anyone. The good ones with integrity won't come here if they are serious about building onto there legacy. The Skins HC position is a graveyard since Snyder took over. No one could work under Snyder as he meddles with everything and a good HC or GM will never be able to build this franchise as long as Snyder is there.

Snyder is all about style over substance.

[BurgundyNGold]

That really doesn't contradict what I posited lol. I agree that they both jumped ship because they saw how screwed up things were(in fact, one of those two coaches hinted that to me personally one time, and I'm not going to say anything more about that).

Until Snyder gives up control, ain't nothing changing.
Agreed.

I agree with Shally. Teams didn't have any book on Zorn, and by the time they caught up with Zorn's offense, Samuels was hurt and defenses knew what to look for.
I don't know how much of a "book" they needed. Truth be told, the first 8 games of 2008 aren't from the same book as the last 8 or the first 3 of this year lol.

Mentally, the players were tougher under Gibbs. Moss didn't dog nearly as much, for example. They were almost always prepared and were fundamentally sound -- even if their coaches were pretty bad at game time decisions and halftime adjustments. After 4 years of that, I can see there being a carry over into the new regime before they started slumping and dogging it.

[Redskinmayhem]

^ true - it wasn't until the 2nd half of 08 when we all really noticed Moss dogging it on most snaps.


The Monday Night Miracle in Dallass would've never happened under Zorn. Moss was out there, down 13-0 last 3 or so minutes of the game, running his a$$ off. If were down 13 near the end of a game now, Moss is jogging through his routes.

[BurgundyNGold]

^ true - it wasn't until the 2nd half of 08 when we all really noticed Moss dogging it on most snaps.


The Monday Night Miracle in Dallass would've never happened under Zorn. Moss was out there, down 13-0 last 3 or so minutes of the game, running his a$$ off. If were down 13 near the end of a game now, Moss is jogging through his routes.
I was going to post the exact same thing. I believe it was the gumption that the team learned under Gibbs allowed them to go 6-2 more than some "book" on Zorn, although I wouldn't completely dismiss the "book" as a factor, as well.

[Brokenstriker]

Really makes you wonder how Dan Snyder became a successful and wealthy business man ... I mean seriously. If he ran his non-football businesses like he runs the Redskins he'd be some schlep angling for a paycheck on Monster.com ... no college degree and a huge failure at running his business.

What the heck is the man thinking? Really!?

[BurgundyNGold]

Really makes you wonder how Dan Snyder became a successful and wealthy business man ... I mean seriously. If he ran his non-football businesses like he runs the Redskins he'd be some schlep angling for a paycheck on Monster.com ... no college degree and a huge failure at running his business.

What the heck is the man thinking? Really!?
He got lucky, plain and simple.

He got a lot of initial investment for an idea that never actually paid for itself as a business, went public and rode the wave of the Internet bubble to huge coffers of cash from stock speculation in that company. Then he sold out before the wheels fell off and used that cash to finance purchasing the Redskins.

[Emmanouel8]

How long did you live in DC? My 40 years here say that this is the most inaccurate, misinformed post I have ever seen.

George kisses no ones ass.


I think you can take what George says with a grain of salt, he's good but yesterday he was a bit attention-seeking with his sudden disclosure of information. A few of his assessments I disagreed with too.

For instance he explained that Lavar's Dan-Snyders-postgame-handshake insight was an illustration he wants to win and accountability. I don't see it like that at all, I see it as undermining the coaches authority, the individual who is supposed to be holding players accountable, and if Dan wants to hold players accountabvle he should structure it in their contracts.

As far as his tidbits on Marty, who cares? Marty wanted everyone to know who was in charge and his method was keeping the idiot "owners" as unvisible as possible. Of course dan & dranser didn't like it. Marty was on to something, his methods at least get you in the playoffs.

[redskin_rich]

I think you can take what George says with a grain of salt, he's good but yesterday he was a bit attention-seeking with his sudden disclosure of information. A few of his assessments I disagreed with too.

For instance he explained that Lavar's Dan-Snyders-postgame-handshake insight was an illustration he wants to win and accountability. I don't see it like that at all, I see it as undermining the coaches authority, the individual who is supposed to be holding players accountable, and if Dan wants to hold players accountabvle he should structure it in their contracts.

As far as his tidbits on Marty, who cares? Marty wanted everyone to know who was in charge and his method was keeping the idiot "owners" as unvisible as possible. Of course dan & dranser didn't like it. Marty was on to something, his methods at least get you in the playoffs.Yeah, I still haven't had a chance to listen to it and since George is not working now, I don't know what his motivation is. I hope to hell he is not planning on joining the Redskins propaganda machine.

That bit about Snyder staring down the players after a loss just shows what an utter douchebag he is. I couldn't work for the man. My dignity comes before my need for money and I wouldn't be able to stop myself from pimp slapping Snyder.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Yeah, I still haven't had a chance to listen to it and since George is not working now, I don't know what his motivation is. I hope to hell he is not planning on joining the Redskins propaganda machine.

That bit about Snyder staring down the players after a loss just shows what an utter douchebag he is. I couldn't work for the man. My dignity comes before my need for money and I wouldn't be able to stop myself from pimp slapping Snyder.

Thanks for mentioning the word motivation. I would really like to hear some theories on motivation. Why did this just come out of the blue? It doesn't make sense.

[Redskinmayhem]

Part of me wants to believe the motivation is Pure. I believe GM is a Huge Skins fan as we are all are. I believe it pains him to see our team flounder like this. I also beleive that he's close to Snyder and is doing a bit of the PR work Snyderatto refuses to do, by his own admission.

I really want to believe this is his motivation.

[redskin_rich]

Thanks for mentioning the word motivation. I would really like to hear some theories on motivation. Why did this just come out of the blue? It doesn't make sense.
1. The dreaded theory I mentioned in my last post.
2. George forgot to take his meds yesterday?
3. George is bored to tears on his horse farm?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I am unable to believe the Vinny stuff though. You tell me if this is a guy that can't build relationships:

1. Hired by ESPN within days of being let go by the Skins.
2. Works side by side for most of a decade with one of the most difficult owners in the NFL.
3. Still has strong ties to Notre Dame.
4. I know the films sucked, but still got himself two film roles.
5. Has been heavily involved in pulling off a few trades, especially the Taylor trade last year.
6. We have read reports that he is liked by Shanahan.

Plus, just look at the guy with his all year tan and blinding smile. You can say he is a lackey, suck-up, etc., but he is not a zero in building relationships.

How could or why would George Michael, a long-time, respected journalist choose words that are so incorrect?

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

it's obvious,and has been that obvious to me since DS bought the skins that he called all the shots.that changed a lot when gibbs came back,but all these coaches snyder hired and fired do know football,and if he had not come in thinking he was god's gift to the redskins,more than likely things would have eventually happened and the skins would still be a competitive team every year.snyder does'nt know $h** about running the redskins,he is not learning anything and while he runs the team like he does know,things are never gonna get better with the skins!he needs to be like mr cooke,sign the checks and get the hell out of the way and let people do the job he hired them to do!!!

[BurgundyNGold]

I am unable to believe the Vinny stuff though. You tell me if this is a guy that can't build relationships:
Let's take these one by one lol:

1. Hired by ESPN within days of being let go by the Skins.
ESPN hires pretty much anyone related to football as an analyst, provided they have some semblance of a personality and can put words together in a sensible manner at least part of the time (Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, et al). That doesn't mean they stick around (Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, et al).

2. Works side by side for most of a decade with one of the most difficult owners in the NFL.
Being paid handsomely to be a designated mouth piece, fall guy and go-fer for an NFL owner who loves to throw around cash and play the big shot isn't exactly bad work if you can get it. And have no soul.

3. Still has strong ties to Notre Dame.
I'm not sure about that.

4. I know the films sucked, but still got himself two film roles.
I'm not sure this is evidence of anything for Vinny more than it is an indictment of the filmmakers lol.

5. Has been heavily involved in pulling off a few trades, especially the Taylor trade last year.
Do we really know that? We've just been told by George Micahel that Danny makes most of these decisions. Vinny was just the mouthpiece who, at the time, we all just assumed was lying about not having any knowledge of any contact with Miami about Taylor. Maybe he was actually in the dark too lol.

6. We have read reports that he is liked by Shanahan.
We read all sorts of crap. Most of it turns out to be just that. I don't have much faith in those.

Plus, just look at the guy with his all year tan and blinding smile. You can say he is a lackey, suck-up, etc., but he is not a zero in building relationships.
A lot of flashy, Good Time Charlies are great at striking up quick friendships. Relationships are a lot different. If you have no substance, stretch the truth, are untrustworthy, are inept, etc then competent folks will see thorugh that and a relationship, in the true sense of the word, will never be built.

How could or why would George Michael, a long-time, respected journalist choose words that are so incorrect?
I think that part of it is that he is being careful not to slam Danny (too badly) because he is friends with Danny. He has no such friendship with Vinny or, if he does, it's not worth damaging the relationship he has with Danny. I think we might be looking at the beginning of the end for Vinny.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I've heard the interview, and honestly, I don't know that he said anything that we didn't already know or at least hadn't figured out.

Danny is a douch who has no idea what he is doing. Vinny is a douche who is paid to do what Danny tells him to do. We will suck until we get rid of Danny. I think it's really as simple as that.

In other words, why would our situation be viewed differently than the Raiders for example? They are in a much worse situation than we are at the present time, but when you think about it it's no different: the guy in charge has to change or else there is no hope.

[cal_junior]

He got lucky, plain and simple.

He got a lot of initial investment for an idea that never actually paid for itself as a business, went public and rode the wave of the Internet bubble to huge coffers of cash from stock speculation in that company. Then he sold out before the wheels fell off and used that cash to finance purchasing the Redskins.

I'm not doubting any of this may be true, but haven't the Redskins almost doubled in value since Danny bought them 10 years ago? That seems to display at least little bit of business savvy, no?

[MDBluefinCrab]

This is news?

[Emmanouel8]

Thanks for mentioning the word motivation. I would really like to hear some theories on motivation. Why did this just come out of the blue? It doesn't make sense.

It does make sense.

He wants attention and maintain his credibility.

Obviously he's been in the spotlight for a long time around here, and when he sees a young buck like Lavar clean up on the ratings he has to put his 2 cents in and throw in some tidbits for credibility.

Paraphrasing from George Michael "Fred Drasner said fire the SOB" he's really saying hey pay attention to me I know something.

Paraphrasing from him again "I told the [owners], you'd regret hiring Marty" he's really saying I told you so, thus I'm credible.

Just my 2 cents.

[BurgundyNGold]

I'm not doubting any of this may be true, but haven't the Redskins almost doubled in value since Danny bought them 10 years ago? That seems to display at least little bit of business savvy, no?
I don't know that I would call what he does savvy. The vast majority of that jump in value (from about $800M to $1.5B) didn't have a whole lot to do with him. There were the two largest TV contracts in sports history in there. That was the biggest chunk. There was general inflation to consider, as well. Probably 20-30% over the decade. That's nothing to sneeze at.

I will give him credit for is being innovative on some things (the rotating TV screen behind coaches at pressers, for example) but some things were low hanging fruit. Stadium naming rights were there to be had. The revenue from adding 10-12K seats was there (Danny added nearly 20K seats, which were too many).

Danny has eked out about $100M or so of real, additional value out of the Redskins $1.5B total. But at what expense? He's alienated the fans with his heavy handed, sometime shady business practices and he's sued season ticket holders under financial duress.

To me, when you include the greater context, he's not a very good businessman. Most of all because he treats his customers so poorly and gives so little concern to quality at any level.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I don't know that I would call what he does savvy. The vast majority of that jump in value (from about $800M to $1.5B) didn't have a whole lot to do with him. There were the two largest TV contracts in sports history in there. That was the biggest chunk. There was general inflation to consider, as well. Probably 20-30% over the decade. That's nothing to sneeze at.

I will give him credit for is being innovative on some things (the rotating TV screen behind coaches at pressers, for example) but some things were low hanging fruit. Stadium naming rights were there to be had. The revenue from adding 10-12K seats was there (Danny added nearly 20K seats, which were too many).

Danny has eked out about $100M or so of real, additional value out of the Redskins $1.5B total. But at what expense? He's alienated the fans with his heavy handed, sometime shady business practices and he's sued season ticket holders under financial duress.

To me, when you include the greater context, he's not a very good businessman. Most of all because he treats his customers so poorly and gives so little concern to quality at any level.

Everybody's franchise went up in value. The difference between Snyder and the rest of the NFL is that he owns the stadium. The Cowboys with their personally owned new stadium passed the Redskins. You can expect the Giants and Jets to do the same next year when they open their own personally owned new stadium.

Most teams lease "publicly owned" stadiums.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

did'nt zorn can gibbs running game after week 8 last season,and switch to one he felt better with?that alone tells me when it comes right down to it,zorn does not know jack$*** about developing a running game.whatever he calls his running game now,it stinks!he needs to go back to gibbs system since it is plain to me that the players are more confident in running that system,than they are with zorn's!

[BurgundyNGold]

Everybody's franchise went up in value. The difference between Snyder and the rest of the NFL is that he owns the stadium. The Cowboys with their personally owned new stadium passed the Redskins. You can expect the Giants and Jets to do the same next year when they open their own personally owned new stadium.

Most teams lease "publicly owned" stadiums.
Yeah, but the Cooke estate owned the stadium when Danny bought it for $800M. When I mentioned TV contracts and the like, it was accounting for part (the largest part) of how Danny got it that other $700M to $1.5B.

[RedskinsDave]

Yeah, I probably was one of the blissfully ignorant that argued with you. I just don't know how you have been able to continue buying tickets and giving up so many hours of your weekend for so little return, all the while, knowing what a fraud Snyder is. I just can't do it.
Maybe it's because you don't have kids yet? :)

You're not far off. Once we have kids it will be a lot harder to justify the money for this bad a product and game day experience. Plus, we may move in the next year too.

[SkinsKY]

I've heard the interview, and honestly, I don't know that he said anything that we didn't already know or at least hadn't figured out.

Danny is a douch who has no idea what he is doing. Vinny is a douche who is paid to do what Danny tells him to do. We will suck until we get rid of Danny. I think it's really as simple as that.

In other words, why would our situation be viewed differently than the Raiders for example? They are in a much worse situation than we are at the present time, but when you think about it it's no different: the guy in charge has to change or else there is no hope.

But at least for them, Davis has to die soon, so the nightmare will be over soon. Unless they become the first team to be run by a zombie. Which might be an improvement. He'll at least want smart players.

[SkinsKY]

I'm not doubting any of this may be true, but haven't the Redskins almost doubled in value since Danny bought them 10 years ago? That seems to display at least little bit of business savvy, no?

Or inflation. Everyone has gone up in value. Relative to other NFL teams, we're losing value. Dallas passed us, and that was before Jerruhworld.

[Lacquer Head]

...a huge failure at running his business...

Not so fast. The Redskins make a TON of money.

[hogskins]

Plus, just look at the guy with his all year tan and blinding smile. You can say he is a lackey, suck-up, etc., but he is not a zero in building relationships.


"relationship" can be variably-defined ...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kaSJ8rh2RnY/SdvhwXRdzQI/AAAAAAAAAAM/y9EC58XZYeM/S700/REMORA.jpg

http://www.scubaduba.com/gallery/shark2.jpg

[Lacquer Head]

Or inflation. Everyone has gone up in value. Relative to other NFL teams, we're losing value. Dallas passed us, and that was before Jerruhworld.

I don't think Dallas is a good comparison because both Washington and Dallas are financial anomalies among crappy teams. If you did a comparison of success on the field cross-referenced with income, Dallas and Washington are both approximately similar. (i.e. we both suck for 10+ years and still do well financially). Compare us to teams like the Raiders or the Jaguars and you'll see what I mean (teams which have been bad for awhile but don't share the same "mystique" or whatever keeps us supporting this God-awful team).

[SpicyMcHaggis]

But at least for them, Davis has to die soon, so the nightmare will be over soon. Unless they become the first team to be run by a zombie. Which might be an improvement. He'll at least want smart players.

True, but it's pretty much a given that the Raiders are hopeless until Davis is in charge. Why is our situation different?

[Keino]

I'm not doubting any of this may be true, but haven't the Redskins almost doubled in value since Danny bought them 10 years ago? That seems to display at least little bit of business savvy, no?

Almost wholly a product of paying down the debt on the stadium and the property value appreciation of the stadium. The other part of the value is the league revenue sharing split of the TV revenue which got two substantial increases since he has been the owner. He does get credit for finding creative revenue streams such as the naming rights to the stadium and the deals he made with other companies for stadium ad space/partnerships.

[Keino]

I don't know that I would call what he does savvy. The vast majority of that jump in value (from about $800M to $1.5B) didn't have a whole lot to do with him. There were the two largest TV contracts in sports history in there. That was the biggest chunk. There was general inflation to consider, as well. Probably 20-30% over the decade. That's nothing to sneeze at.

I will give him credit for is being innovative on some things (the rotating TV screen behind coaches at pressers, for example) but some things were low hanging fruit. Stadium naming rights were there to be had. The revenue from adding 10-12K seats was there (Danny added nearly 20K seats, which were too many).

Danny has eked out about $100M or so of real, additional value out of the Redskins $1.5B total. But at what expense? He's alienated the fans with his heavy handed, sometime shady business practices and he's sued season ticket holders under financial duress.

To me, when you include the greater context, he's not a very good businessman. Most of all because he treats his customers so poorly and gives so little concern to quality at any level.



See, this is why you should read threads before posting. You avoid looking silly by posting similar thoughts as others in a less eloquent way the way I just did.

[redskin_rich]

I'd like to continue talking about Snyder's finances and the Redskins but I think it should have it's own thread, so don't be shocked if I pull some of the posts out of this thread and put them in the new one.

[redskin_rich]

Ok, now that we have new thread to discuss Snyder and his money and the Redskins, I would like to pose this two part question; How much do ticket sales need to fall before Snyder starts not making a profit and even if he makes enough money through the tv deals, at what point does he tire of being the most hated man in DC and sell the team?

[BurgundyNGold]

Ok, now that we have new thread to discuss Snyder and his money and the Redskins, I would like to pose this two part question; How much do ticket sales need to fall before Snyder starts not making a profit and even if he makes enough money through the tv deals, at what point does he tire of being the most hated man in DC and sell the team?
I'm pretty sure that ticket sales is only like the 3rd largest revenue generator. Even if one was to assume $125/ticket for 90K seats over 10 games, you'd be looking at only (lol) around $112M. That's less than the team payroll. I think the majority of team revenue comes from TV rights and merchandising. So, to answer your first part, even if the stadium was half empty, Danny would only be losing about $56M off of what he currently makes, which is still not likely to put him in the red. The only thing that will do it is a complete blanket boycott of anything Redskins by the fan base.

As for the second part of your question, he'll never sell the team. The Redskins are his most prized possession. He'd move the team to a city that didn't hate him before he sold.

The only hope is that he goes into bankruptcy so deep that the value of the Redskins is beyond what the courts will allow him to keep.

[redskin_rich]

I'm pretty sure that ticket sales is only like the 3rd largest revenue generator. Even if one was to assume $125/ticket for 90K seats over 10 games, you'd be looking at only (lol) around $112M. That's less than the team payroll. I think the majority of team revenue comes from TV rights and merchandising. So, to answer your first part, even if the stadium was half empty, Danny would only be losing about $56M off of what he currently makes, which is still not likely to put him in the red. The only thing that will do it is a complete blanket boycott of anything Redskins by the fan base.

As for the second part of your question, he'll never sell the team. The Redskins are his most prized possession. He'd move the team to a city that didn't hate him before he sold.

The only hope is that he goes into bankruptcy so deep that the value of the Redskins is beyond what the courts will allow him to keep.
I don't think the NFL would let him move the team, they would force him to sell. He inherited the most established fanbase in football and if he blew that, why would anyone think he could market somewhere else?

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't think the NFL would let him move the team, they would force him to sell. He inherited the most established fanbase in football and if he blew that, why would anyone think he could market somewhere else?
I'd like to think so, but Al Davis showed that the courts are willing to support an owner's right to relocate.

I'm praying that Danny get's way, way overextended. Or that he gets into it with the Feds like Eddie DeBartolo. These are slim odds, I know, but no less slim than those of Danny putting another Lomardi trophy in the case. And, hey, I'm a fan. I have to root for something lol.

[redskin_rich]

Another thing to consider is that Snyder held sway in the past with the other owners because of the cash cow that is FedEx Field and the strong fan support. As that diminishes, so does his power in the owners meetings.

[akhhorus]

If Mort Zuckerman hadn't helped Snyder, he would be a struggling businessman living in Rockville with club seats.

[BurgundyNGold]

Ok, now that we have new thread to discuss Snyder and his money and the Redskins, I would like to pose this two part question; How much do ticket sales need to fall before Snyder starts not making a profit and even if he makes enough money through the tv deals, at what point does he tire of being the most hated man in DC and sell the team?
What just happened here lol?

[redskin_rich]

What just happened here lol?
We got merged, lol. Just as well, I guess, the ramblings of George Michael discussion had run it's course. Since this discussion was solely to be about Snyder and what it would take to force his little ass out, I want no more mention of the bug-eyed one.

[akhhorus]

I'm pretty sure that ticket sales is only like the 3rd largest revenue generator. Even if one was to assume $125/ticket for 90K seats over 10 games, you'd be looking at only (lol) around $112M. That's less than the team payroll. I think the majority of team revenue comes from TV rights and merchandising. So, to answer your first part, even if the stadium was half empty, Danny would only be losing about $56M off of what he currently makes, which is still not likely to put him in the red. The only thing that will do it is a complete blanket boycott of anything Redskins by the fan base.

As for the second part of your question, he'll never sell the team. The Redskins are his most prized possession. He'd move the team to a city that didn't hate him before he sold.

The only hope is that he goes into bankruptcy so deep that the value of the Redskins is beyond what the courts will allow him to keep.

If someone offered him 1.5-2 billion for 100% of the Redskins and 51% of Fedex Field, he would take it.

[SkinsKY]

If someone offered him 1.5-2 billion for 100% of the Redskins and 51% of Fedex Field, he would take it.


Let's start taking up a collection. I've got $20 in the pot to get us started.

[redskin_rich]

If someone offered him 1.5-2 billion for 100% of the Redskins and 51% of Fedex Field, he would take it.
That's a lot of donuts. That would only be palatable, for the buyer, if Snyder's share of FedEx ended when that property was sold, with Snyder getting his 49% of the sale, and no stipulations on how long the team remained there.

[redskin_rich]

Let's start taking up a collection. I've got $20 in the pot to get us started.
If everyone that is a ticketholder, combined with the true amount on the wait list, came up with 10 grand each, we have it easily.

I got my share, the family will have to wait for a few more years for the combined Disney cruise/Disney World trip. :D

[Redskinmayhem]

Let's start taking up a collection. I've got $20 in the pot to get us started.

I would do it, but I believe the NFL prohibits ownership groups larger than 30 people.

[akhhorus]

I would do it, but I believe the NFL prohibits ownership groups larger than 30 people.

Thats fine. I'll be the owner and start a side company to stream the profits back to y'all.

[redskin_rich]

Thats fine. I'll be the owner and start a side company to stream the profits back to y'all.
Can you make sure, at the time of the transaction, that Bug Eyes and Larry Mouthpiece remain employees, so we can deal with them? I think our new NFL Experience exhibit could feature live tackling dummies for the fans. I bet it would be a hit!

[akhhorus]

Can you make sure, at the time of the transaction, that Bug Eyes and Larry Mouthpiece remain employees, so we can deal with them? I think our new NFL Experience exhibit could feature live tackling dummies for the fans. I bet it would be a hit!

In the Akh Administration, Larry Michael will be the Redskins Goodwill Ambassador to Outer Mongolia or possibly the Pashtun tribal areas on the Afghani/Paki border.

[skinsfan36]

depressing but we already knew this. i hope and pray he hires shannahan or a coach and a good gm

[joethefan]

I truly do think DS does want to win as much as any redskins fan. But he does not know how. All I have to say is if he is willing to outspend the rest of the league to acquire the best players money can buy, why not just hire the best GM money can buy and let him do his job and set back and be a fan?:sun:


That is an excellent question..IMO as long as Danny is trying to do it the so called Jerry Jones way..IMO he's a cowboy!!!!

[joethefan]

Ok, now that we have new thread to discuss Snyder and his money and the Redskins, I would like to pose this two part question; How much do ticket sales need to fall before Snyder starts not making a profit and even if he makes enough money through the tv deals, at what point does he tire of being the most hated man in DC and sell the team?

the moment he gets caught with 2 kilos of cocaine or the moment he gets caught butnaked w vinnie or two prostitutes....lol

[redskin_rich]

the moment he gets caught with 2 kilos of cocaine or the moment he gets caught butnaked w vinnie or two prostitutes....lol
If either of those scenarios were remotely possible, Danny wouldn't be even half as bad an owner as he is.

[Hr fan]

Sorry mods, just wanted to say that the clip was entertaining. Thanks for the link. As to truth, I believe George about as much as the Hollywood "I love everybody" bit from obvious misanthropes.

[NamVet4]

More of the same...Daniel Snyder, Vincent Cerrato, Jim Zorn..Blah Blah Blah....
How bad is it when the majority of threads on this distinguished message board turn into "bitch bytes". . . And I have contributed enough of them also!
How I long for the days when we used to see posts and threads about the upcoming game; players possible ups and downs and we wrote about the game as if it really mattered.

Sad~

[BurgundyNGold]

the moment he gets caught with 2 kilos of cocaine or the moment he gets caught butnaked w vinnie or two prostitutes....lol
In this town? He'd be more loved than ever. That's like the prerequisite to run for mayor.

[BurgundyNGold]

I truly do think DS does want to win as much as any redskins fan. But he does not know how. All I have to say is if he is willing to outspend the rest of the league to acquire the best players money can buy, why not just hire the best GM money can buy and let him do his job and set back and be a fan?:sun:
I'm sure Steve Bisciotti is a Ravens fan. I'm sure that Jeff Laurie is an Iggles fan, as well.

The short answer is that Danny needs to be the center of the wagon wheel because he's a fan of himself more than he's a Redskins fan. It's not enough for the team to win, the team has to win HIS way. In the end, his motivations are not about the Redskins or winning. It's even not about money, although money is higher on his priority list than winning. What we've witnessed since Danny fired Marty is 8 years of some tangent that is more about Danny's ego than anything else.

And why should he care? People keep coming to the games, buying crap and refilling his pockets. He's hobnobbing with L. Ron Jr at midfield. The team isn't winning? Sure, he gets angry -- but not because he's a fan. He gets angry because losing threatens his house of cards.