Akh's Thoughts: Week 11

[akhhorus]

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=742)

Guff on!

[cal_junior]

7-Shaun Suisham is a convenient target for the loss against the Boys, and there was no excuse for missing a 39 yard FG at the end of the first half. I don’t blame him for missing a 50 yard FG in the 4th, Zorn should have punted it or gone for the first. Suisham has had a good season, and I don’t think this one bad performance should condemn him….but he should have made that 39 yarder.

+1

And I don't think it's insignificant that he had to wait around for ten+ minutes while all that review stuff got figured out. Suisham was iced pretty seriously on the first miss.

[Chief Seeway]

All three of our second round picks are improving.

[BurgundyNGold]

+1

And I don't think it's insignificant that he had to wait around for ten+ minutes while all that review stuff got figured out. Suisham was iced pretty seriously on the first miss.
Damn skippy. Leaving that whole attempting a FG on 3rd down business aside for the moment, what coach that is not a moron leaves his K out there for 10 minutes? Zorn and Danny Smith should both be hung from the gallows for that, as if the list of crimes against sanity this season started and ended there.

[akhhorus]

+1

And I don't think it's insignificant that he had to wait around for ten+ minutes while all that review stuff got figured out. Suisham was iced pretty seriously on the first miss.

Yeah, just more tardery from Zorn.

All three of our second round picks are improving.

I agree, Kelly has an amazing NFL body, but he was extremely raw coming out of school. Davis has "it." Thomas might.

[RedskinsDave]

Am I the only one who was just waiting for them to blow the game? The fact that this team couldn't put Good Counsel away is what is annoying. We know they're bad. We know they're hurt. It doesn't make handing a game like this to the worst 7-3 team ever any better.

[akhhorus]

Am I the only one who was just waiting for them to blow the game? The fact that this team couldn't put Good Counsel away is what is annoying. We know they're bad. We know they're hurt. It doesn't make handing a game like this to the worst 7-3 team ever any better.

No, I was thinking that the entire 2nd half. The Boys wouldn't keep dropping balls and it was only a matter of time. I think a lot of that is coaching(the players deserve some blame also).

[smoot]

I agree, Kelly has an amazing NFL body, but he was extremely raw coming out of school. Davis has "it." Thomas might.

Thomas seems to be a player that's very similar to Desean Jackson in that the coaches need to gameplan to get the ball in his hands in space and just let him run with it. He's by far the best WR we have when it comes to breaking tackles and he has the speed to make some big plays for us.

[LATrueRedskin]

Am I the only one who was just waiting for them to blow the game? The fact that this team couldn't put Good Counsel away is what is annoying. We know they're bad. We know they're hurt. It doesn't make handing a game like this to the worst 7-3 team ever any better.

It's funny because I was driving home from North Carolina, and was getting updates from a girl on my cell phone (play-by-play). She said we were about to win, and was counting down the seconds until she said we won the game. I was estatic. The game sounded ugly, but at least we beat the Cowboys, right?

Wrong. She was counting down the last seconds of the 3rd quarter. As soon as she messaged me that it was only the 3rd quarter, I knew then that we were going to lose the game.

Women.

[BurgundyNGold]

It's funny because I was driving home from North Carolina, and was getting updates from a girl on my cell phone (play-by-play). She said we were about to win, and was counting down the seconds until she said we won the game. I was estatic. The game sounded ugly, but at least we beat the Cowboys, right?

Wrong. She was counting down the last seconds of the 3rd quarter. As soon as she messaged me that it was only the 3rd quarter, I knew then that we were going to lose the game.

Women.
LMAO

[SkinsfaninNJ]

It's funny because I was driving home from North Carolina, and was getting updates from a girl on my cell phone (play-by-play). She said we were about to win, and was counting down the seconds until she said we won the game. I was estatic. The game sounded ugly, but at least we beat the Cowboys, right?

Wrong. She was counting down the last seconds of the 3rd quarter. As soon as she messaged me that it was only the 3rd quarter, I knew then that we were going to lose the game.

Women.

That's cruel.

[Skinz4lyfe]

No, I was thinking that the entire 2nd half. The Boys wouldn't keep dropping balls and it was only a matter of time. I think a lot of that is coaching(the players deserve some blame also).


It was like watching a train wreck. I knew what was going to happen but couldn't turn away from the television. As long as these clowns are coaching the team we're doomed for failure. Let's just hope that Snyder sees it this way and makes the necessary changes, starting w/Vinny.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

My two main thoughts as the game was ending.

1. I didn't think it was possible again this year, but the Redskins were able to break my heart.

2. If this is one of the wins that convinces Jones to keep Wade Philips and Tony Romo as the two most important faces of the franchise for another year, then losing the battle will help to win the war.

[CarMike]

She said we were about to win

Back in '98 or '99 we were playing the cowgirls at home in FedEx. The Redskins enter the 4th quarter leading 35 to 14. My buddy I was watching the game with says, "Ah, comeon man. You guys have this game rapped up. Lets watch the end of the Dolphans game". I said, "Dude, this game is not over by a long shot. You don't get the history of these two teams. I wouldn't be surprised if dallass comes back and wins this game". He called me crazy.

Well, 21 points later we're heading into OT. 3 plays into OT, Aichman hits Glenn [I think] on a 65 or 70 yard TD pass to beat us 41 to 35.

Point being. I knew we were going to lose this game today. We would have probably lost even if Susie makes the 50 yard FG. dallass would have driven the field and scored their TD making it 9-7. We'd get the ball back and run it 3 times straight while dallass used all THREE of their TOs they had left. [they didn't waste any I think like we did] We'd punt back to them giving them great field position around midfield. 6 plays later they would have kicked a 40 yard FG as time expired for a 10-9 win. lol

[colkurtz]

Good writeup. You just can't hold an offensive team down that long. Teams are NOT coming against the Redskins ready for a hard game and this was one of those. Unfortunately, early progress means the HC tries to win onto a minimal lead. You'd think Zorn would be trying every trick in the book to win; and going for it on every occasion.

As you said this is a team with poor coaches with below average talent. They magnify each others weakness.

[colkurtz]

Back in '98 or '99 we were playing the cowgirls at home in FedEx. The Redskins enter the 4th quarter leading 35 to 14. My buddy I was watching the game with says, "Ah, comeon man. You guys have this game rapped up. Lets watch the end of the Dolphans game". I said, "Dude, this game is not over by a long shot. You don't get the history of these two teams. I wouldn't be surprised if dallass comes back and wins this game". He called me crazy.

Well, 21 points later we're heading into OT. 3 plays into OT, Aichman hits Glenn [I think] on a 65 or 70 yard TD pass to beat us 41 to 35.

Point being. I knew we were going to lose this game today. We would have probably lost even if Susie makes the 50 yard FG. dallass would have driven the field and scored their TD making it 9-7. We'd get the ball back and run it 3 times straight while dallass used all THREE of their TOs they had left. [they didn't waste any I think like we did] We'd punt back to them giving them great field position around midfield. 6 plays later they would have kicked a 40 yard FG as time expired for a 10-9 win. lol

That's why I'm not just blaming suisham.

[skinsfan36]

nice job as always. the 2nd rounders are really starting to show they are nfl talents. now we just need to keep them on the field. cartwright has impressed me as i was not a supporter but he is really showing as you said he can be a 3rd down back. btw i dont think this team can have "it" with this sorry excuse for a coaching staff. they are awful save for danny smiths trick playcalls

[CarMike]

That's why I'm not just blaming suisham.

I have been amazed at some of the reactions to Suisham this year. He received zero credit for most of the season. He's been the best kicker we have had in some time in DC. But I knew he'd be the center of criticism for his two misses today. [not everyone]

That's the life of a kicker I suppose. lol

Definitely not his fault for the loss today.

[akhhorus]

Back in '98 or '99 we were playing the cowgirls at home in FedEx. The Redskins enter the 4th quarter leading 35 to 14. My buddy I was watching the game with says, "Ah, comeon man. You guys have this game rapped up. Lets watch the end of the Dolphans game". I said, "Dude, this game is not over by a long shot. You don't get the history of these two teams. I wouldn't be surprised if dallass comes back and wins this game". He called me crazy.

Well, 21 points later we're heading into OT. 3 plays into OT, Aichman hits Glenn [I think] on a 65 or 70 yard TD pass to beat us 41 to 35.


I was at that game, heartbreaking.

[Biggie]

I'm totally with you on the 2nd rounders. If this team wasn't completely dysfunctional they might have already been producing.

[nicefellow31]

Great write up AK. I have to give Campbell a lot of credit. He takes a beating every week but hangs in there. As for Zorn, I realize this is the NFL but in my mind, any FG over 45 yds is a crap shoot at best. I would have taken my chances by passing on 3rd and then punt if I didn't get it. You'd think that guy would do anything to get a win but oh well.

[shally]

great write up

this franchise is a sad joke, and the coaching staff might be the worst assembled for a Redskin team, EVER..

counting the days until Campbell is no longer QB here as well. Good stats, solid character and work ethic, and all the excuses and apologies in the world cant hide the fact that the guy simply cannot make plays when it counts. Romo stunk up the field for 3 + quarters, but found a way to get his team into the endzone
when it counted. Campbell played heroically for 3+ quarters but found a way to lose when he needed one more big play, or several little plays to get his team in position for a win. there was absolutely NO doubt in my mind that with 2:15 and a single time out left, Campbell would find a way to lose it.. He did..

[hogskins]

Thomas seems to be a player that's very similar to Desean Jackson in that the coaches need to gameplan to get the ball in his hands in space and just let him run with it. He's by far the best WR we have when it comes to breaking tackles and he has the speed to make some big plays for us.

There's no question that Thomas plays with a lot of desire, which makes him stand out. He wants to contribute. When the mental aspects (and more opportunities) finally catch up with all of that, he could be a big contributor.

[hogskins]

great write up

this franchise is a sad joke, and the coaching staff might be the worst assembled for a Redskin team, EVER..

counting the days until Campbell is no longer QB here as well. Good stats, solid character and work ethic, and all the excuses and apologies in the world cant hide the fact that the guy simply cannot make plays when it counts. Romo stunk up the field for 3 + quarters, but found a way to get his team into the endzone
when it counted. Campbell played heroically for 3+ quarters but found a way to lose when he needed one more big play, or several little plays to get his team in position for a win. there was absolutely NO doubt in my mind that with 2:15 and a single time out left, Campbell would find a way to lose it.. He did..

I, too. felt the sense of impending doom down the homestretch, and I don't blame Campbell for the team being in the position that they were in with 6-7 minutes left. He played well enough for the team to be further ahead at that point.

Note to Ahk: The characterization of yesterday being Campbell's "best game ever" came from punch-drunk Sam Huff, who said the same thing about Fletcher early in the 2nd half. He does that nearly every game--you'd think that this team would be full of all-pros this season. He is an entertaining foil to Larry and Sonny, but very little of what he says makes any sense the last couple of years. In that addled sense, he is an effective representative of our FO and coaching staff during the broadcasts.

[Gravy]

great write up

this franchise is a sad joke, and the coaching staff might be the worst assembled for a Redskin team, EVER..

counting the days until Campbell is no longer QB here as well. Good stats, solid character and work ethic, and all the excuses and apologies in the world cant hide the fact that the guy simply cannot make plays when it counts. Romo stunk up the field for 3 + quarters, but found a way to get his team into the endzone
when it counted. Campbell played heroically for 3+ quarters but found a way to lose when he needed one more big play, or several little plays to get his team in position for a win. there was absolutely NO doubt in my mind that with 2:15 and a single time out left, Campbell would find a way to lose it.. He did..

...Yep! Nothing else really to say...

[Patrick]

Have to admit that Thomas and Davis are making progress.
I think you were TOO nice to Levi Jones.
Agree about getting Williams more time ....

[cal_junior]

Memo to Jim Zorn:

1 Timeout > 5 yard penalty

For me, seeing the Skins call two unnecessary third quarter timeouts was just as frustrating as losing the game.

HANG ON TO YOUR GD TIMEOUTS! AHHHHHHH!

Unreal.

[akhhorus]

Great write up AK. I have to give Campbell a lot of credit. He takes a beating every week but hangs in there. As for Zorn, I realize this is the NFL but in my mind, any FG over 45 yds is a crap shoot at best. I would have taken my chances by passing on 3rd and then punt if I didn't get it. You'd think that guy would do anything to get a win but oh well.

That was so emblematic of why Zorn needs to go. No killer instinct, no go for the jugular mentality, no imagination, etc etc etc. And this infects the entire team.

[JsMaViSd]

i may be wrong, but wasnt that pass by Aikman to Raghib Ismail (or the Rocket)

[shally]

That was so emblematic of why Zorn needs to go. No killer instinct, no go for the jugular mentality, no imagination, etc etc etc. And this infects the entire team.

it is more than that.. he is simply incompetent on so many levels

[shally]

i may be wrong, but wasnt that pass by Aikman to Raghib Ismail (or the Rocket)

the one that beat us in OT ? yup.. right over matt stevens, who bit on the play action

[JsMaViSd]

yea burned him badly.

[hail2skins]

great write up

this franchise is a sad joke, and the coaching staff might be the worst assembled for a Redskin team, EVER..

counting the days until Campbell is no longer QB here as well. Good stats, solid character and work ethic, and all the excuses and apologies in the world cant hide the fact that the guy simply cannot make plays when it counts. Romo stunk up the field for 3 + quarters, but found a way to get his team into the endzone
when it counted. Campbell played heroically for 3+ quarters but found a way to lose when he needed one more big play, or several little plays to get his team in position for a win. there was absolutely NO doubt in my mind that with 2:15 and a single time out left, Campbell would find a way to lose it.. He did..So you blame Campbell for this loss? Really?

[JsMaViSd]

Campbell was lookin at the finishing of every play, from the ground. The guy is a soldier and i kinda feel bad for him.

What is going to be funny is when he goes somewhere next year, and shows his true talent.

[cal_junior]

What is going to be funny is when he goes somewhere next year, and shows his true talent.

If that were to happen (and I'm not saying it will), I'm not sure "funny" is the word I would use to describe it.

[dj_stouty]

counting the days until Campbell is no longer QB here as well. Good stats, solid character and work ethic, and all the excuses and apologies in the world cant hide the fact that the guy simply cannot make plays when it counts.

I agree. Plus his "good stats" were a bit inflated yesterday. 5 of his 3rd down completions didn't yield a first down. Most of those 5 completiosn were scared dump offs to RBs and FBs that didn't have a chance at making a 3rd down conversion.

[shally]

So you blame Campbell for this loss? Really?

absolutely.. he bears blame when you score exactly 6 points..
let's get this out of the way because it clouds the issue..
he is a great person
he takes a tremendous beating without complaining
he has to deal with an inferior offensive line
BUT
is there ANYONE here who actually felt we were going to win when we had the ball with a little over 2 minutes left, one time out, and all we need to win is a FG ? anyone here felt we were going win ? i sure didnt...

the interception at the end was on him.. he had no business throwing the ball in that position.

but it is emblematic of Campbell's entire career.. the man simply CANNOT make plays when he has to.. he never has, and he never will. put him on a team that has overwhelming talent, and he will win you a lot more games. but he cannot do it, when you need him to. it is that simple.

i am not a fan of Romo or Eli.. but both those guys can stink up a game for over 3 quarters, but when the game is on the line, they have the capacity to get it done, and rise above mediocre play. how many times have we seen that out of Campbell over a career ? he is in his 5th year, and if he is not showing it now, he is never going to..

he is not the only reason we lost yesterday, but he certainly put the period or exclamation point on the loss.. i am reconciled to the fact that Zorn is going to stick with him right to the bitter en this year, but for me, it will be a happy day when BOTH of them are no longer with this team

[shally]

Campbell was lookin at the finishing of every play, from the ground. The guy is a soldier and i kinda feel bad for him.

What is going to be funny is when he goes somewhere next year, and shows his true talent.

you think that is actually going to happen ? dream on...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

you think that is actually going to happen ? dream on...

I'm not so sure anymore Shally. I think this organization sucks the talent out of everyone.

Here are two interesting ESPN pieces on the subject.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/6863/where-will-campbell-end-up

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=4661910

[Keino]

I've vowed not to defend Campbell the rest of the season, so I will just say that I do not agree with one sentence of your analysis Shally. He was throwing to a Wide open WR after being flushed from the pocket. The guy made gutsy play after gutsy play, converting a few long 3rd downs after some gaffe by another player put the team in a hole.

What should he have done on that last ball Shally, I'd like to know what he should have done? Run the ball with no timeouts left?

[shally]

I'm not so sure anymore Shally. I think this organization sucks the talent out of everyone.

Here are two interesting ESPN pieces on the subject.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/6863/where-will-campbell-end-up

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=4661910

on the Browns ? under Man-gina ?
or the Raiders ??

please...his flaws are there for anyone to see-- as well as his virtues.
but the thing is, when the team wanted to trade him, what could they get for him ? APPARENTLY, the Browns wouldnt give up Quinn for him, nor would the Broncos take him over Orton.

watching the first half of the Broncos game, does anyone think that Campbell was better looking than Orton ? i sure didnt.. Pastabelly said that Campbell must feel gratified that he beat them.. but that was simply because Simms was absolutely dreadful.. i will grant you that Campbell is better than him.. probably better than Quinn, and most assuredly better than Russell.. but what does that get a team ? none of those guys belong at starting QB in the nfl.. and neither does Campbell...

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

It's funny because I was driving home from North Carolina, and was getting updates from a girl on my cell phone (play-by-play). She said we were about to win, and was counting down the seconds until she said we won the game. I was estatic. The game sounded ugly, but at least we beat the Cowboys, right?

Wrong. She was counting down the last seconds of the 3rd quarter. As soon as she messaged me that it was only the 3rd quarter, I knew then that we were going to lose the game.

Women.
Hey now! Send that there girl to my Football 101 class, ;). That sucks for you though, lol.

[shally]

I've vowed not to defend Campbell the rest of the season, so I will just say that I do not agree with one sentence of your analysis Shally. He was throwing to a Wide open WR after being flushed from the pocket. The guy made gutsy play after gutsy play, converting a few long 3rd downs after some gaffe by another player put the team in a hole.

What should he have done on that last ball Shally, I'd like to know what he should have done? Run the ball with no timeouts left?


he was leaning backwards and rolling to his left.. get rid of the ball..
or keep the play alive somehow... kind of like what Romo did nearly every time we pressured him

when your team scores 6 points, and cant get a FG with 2:15 left and a time out, it is on your QB..

put it to you this way.. when the drive started, tell me you were sitting there and thinking "now we got 'em.. we are going to drive down there and win it" it was only a question of HOW the final failure would occur, not IF it would..

defend him all you want. the plain fact is that he WONT be here next year.
enough is enough...

[Oregonian]

I thought this was one of Campbell's best games, if not his best in a long time.

For two reasons: his pocket presence and his accuracy. Which have not been his strong suits in the past.

If Campbell played like this every game, I could be OK with him as the starting QB going forward.

But we still lost.

And put up a total of 6 points.

And like Shally said, on the final drive, the failure to convert was eminently predictable.

As will be his likely relapse to previous form for most of the rest of the season.

[Keino]

I think making a play was exactly what he was trying to do. The difference is that Dallas' O line was capable of giving him an opportunity to make a play and ours was not. Period. The result of the game notwithstanding the better QB all day was the guy in Burgundy, not the guy in White.

And again, I am not defending him, because frankly there is not defense to the unreasonable standards you hold him to.

Did I think we got this game? Nope. As soon as we missed a 50 yard FG and gave Dallas only 60 yards of field to work with I knew that game was over. Which is exactly why I cannot in good conscience blame the QB for the loss. He marched us down the field at the end of the 1st half (Making improvised players I might add) and put us in position to score.


So the answer to my question is that he should have thrown the ball away? I am unsure, because you then go on to say he should have tried to make a play ala Romo. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I agree he won't be here next year, and I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is dishonest and unfair criticism and holding him to an unreasonable standard. Your "on the QB" position completely ignores the fact that the O Line failed to adequately protect him on a 3 man rush. It ignores the fact that at the 2:41 mark, the Qb had delivered a 6 point lead to the Defense and it ignores the fact that the K missed a gimme FG and a FG later that was no gimme, but would have secured the win. I can't blame the loss on the QB. I don't hold him blameless, but your position is not remotely reasonable.

This is my last defense of JC. EVER.

[hail2skins]

I think making a play was exactly what he was trying to do. The difference is that Dallas' O line was capable of giving him an opportunity to make a play and ours was not. Period. The result of the game notwithstanding the better QB all day was the guy in Burgundy, not the guy in White.

And again, I am not defending him, because frankly there is not defense to the unreasonable standards you hold him to.

Did I think we got this game? Nope. As soon as we missed a 50 yard FG and gave Dallas only 60 yards of field to work with I knew that game was over. Which is exactly why I cannot in good conscience blame the QB for the loss. He marched us down the field at the end of the 1st half (Making improvised players I might add) and put us in position to score.


So the answer to my question is that he should have thrown the ball away? I am unsure, because you then go on to say he should have tried to make a play ala Romo. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I agree he won't be here next year, and I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is dishonest and unfair criticism and holding him to an unreasonable standard. Your "on the QB" position completely ignores the fact that the O Line failed to adequately protect him on a 3 man rush. It ignores the fact that at the 2:41 mark, the Qb had delivered a 6 point lead to the Defense and it ignores the fact that the K missed a gimme FG and a FG later that was no gimme, but would have secured the win. I can't blame the loss on the QB. I don't hold him blameless, but your position is not remotely reasonable.

This is my last defense of JC. EVER.I adopt this post as it includes my thoughts exactly.

[cal_junior]

I think JC had a solid outing, given the personnel the Skins had out there.

But that last pick was such a brutal decision I can't even stand it. On 1st-and-10 with one timeout left, there is no reason to throw across your body into a sea of defenders. If it was fourth down, or there was 30 seconds left in the game or something, I get it, take a big risk.

But if that ball doesn't get tipped it probably gets intercepted by another Dallas defender. The receiver was not close to being open.

It was a terrible choice made during the point of NFL games where good QBs show up. On that particular play, Campbell choked.

[Brokenstriker]

translation of Zorn's statement re: kicking a field goal on 3rd down with 15 seconds to play in the half,

"We determined that we are not a good football team, and because of that assessment we decided not to try to win the game."

And this previously unheard 3 second portion of the presser inexplicably droppped at the end of the broadcast [Jim Zorn speaking],

"Stay medium. Peace ... Out."

[shally]

I think making a play was exactly what he was trying to do. The difference is that Dallas' O line was capable of giving him an opportunity to make a play and ours was not. Period. The result of the game notwithstanding the better QB all day was the guy in Burgundy, not the guy in White.

And again, I am not defending him, because frankly there is not defense to the unreasonable standards you hold him to.

Did I think we got this game? Nope. As soon as we missed a 50 yard FG and gave Dallas only 60 yards of field to work with I knew that game was over. Which is exactly why I cannot in good conscience blame the QB for the loss. He marched us down the field at the end of the 1st half (Making improvised players I might add) and put us in position to score.


So the answer to my question is that he should have thrown the ball away? I am unsure, because you then go on to say he should have tried to make a play ala Romo. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I agree he won't be here next year, and I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is dishonest and unfair criticism and holding him to an unreasonable standard. Your "on the QB" position completely ignores the fact that the O Line failed to adequately protect him on a 3 man rush. It ignores the fact that at the 2:41 mark, the Qb had delivered a 6 point lead to the Defense and it ignores the fact that the K missed a gimme FG and a FG later that was no gimme, but would have secured the win. I can't blame the loss on the QB. I don't hold him blameless, but your position is not remotely reasonable.

This is my last defense of JC. EVER.

i am utterly amazed at the extent that campbell is defended-- not necessarily by you per se-- but defended nevertheless..

separate his character and work ethic from his results.. he is backup material at best

[Fathead]

You were throwing him under the bus pretty hard, Shally. He's not a quality QB in this league but he kept one of the worst teams in NFL history in the game against a division leader.

[esmith1790]

i am utterly amazed at the extent that campbell is defended-- not necessarily by you per se-- but defended nevertheless..

separate his character and work ethic from his results.. he is backup material at best

I am in dallas and cant watch as many games as you guys can, but you never see him directing WRs or anything.

You never see him point at LBers and direct the OL to block him or anything. I know Rabach calls the line schemes(could be wrong) but you dont see JC 'MAKE' a play.

Coaching is bad but at some point the QB has to make a play for your team to win and he isnt doing that.

[shally]

You were throwing him under the bus pretty hard, Shally. He's not a quality QB in this league but he kept one of the worst teams in NFL history in the game against a division leader.

the DEFENSE gave up 7 points to the division leader.. how is that Campbell's doing ?

and we are clearly not close to being one of the worst teams in NFL history.. we have a bad offensive line, but have decent receivers.

put Romo on this team and you think we only score 6 points ?
put a healthy Orton on this team and you think we only score 6 points ?

this is not a one game assessment on Campbell.. this is a 4 1/2 year career.. the guy cannot get the ball into the endzone.. period..
over 4 years how many times has he led a team to a 4th quarter win ?

[shally]

I am in dallas and cant watch as many games as you guys can, but you never see him directing WRs or anything.

You never see him point at LBers and direct the OL to block him or anything. I know Rabach calls the line schemes(could be wrong) but you dont see JC 'MAKE' a play.

Coaching is bad but at some point the QB has to make a play for your team to win and he isnt doing that.

+1

nothing else need be said.. backup material, at best...

[Fathead]

Campbell put the team in positions to win the game, Shally. You can hate him, he's not that great, but the performance today was, while not adequate, at least mediocre. You threw him under the bus like he was the sole reason they lost.



I want a new QB as much as anyone. But the man did not singlehandedly lose that game.


Also, the skins were behind going into the 4th quarter last week, Shally.

[Oregonian]

I am in dallas and cant watch as many games as you guys can, but you never see him directing WRs or anything.

You never see him point at LBers and direct the OL to block him or anything. I know Rabach calls the line schemes(could be wrong) but you dont see JC 'MAKE' a play.

Coaching is bad but at some point the QB has to make a play for your team to win and he isnt doing that.

Agreed.

On the same note, his overall situational awareness was on display midgame.

Just as he had made a first down on a nice throw, and just as Troy Aikman, who probably only gets to see Campbell a few times a season, was praising him and defending him from his many critics, Campbell absentmindedly let the play clock run to zero.

There was a close up on Campbell's face just as the flags dropped. He was nowhere ready to run a play, and a sudden look of surprise and consternation showed that Campbell had completely lost track of how much time he had.

He will never be a field general; he barely seems to be officer material.

[esmith1790]

Agreed.

On the same note, his overall situational awareness was on display midgame.

Just as he had made a first down on a nice throw, and just as Troy Aikman, who probably only gets to see Campbell a few times a season, was praising him and defending him from his many critics, Campbell absentmindedly let the play clock run to zero.

There was a close up on Campbell's face just as the flags dropped. He was nowhere ready to run a play, and a sudden look of surprise and consternation showed that Campbell had completely lost track of how much time he had.

He will never be a field general; he barely seems to be officer material.

Has he been all over the OL, RB,WR to get set, get lined up right, hurry up. I havent seen that either. Just some sure,ok, whatever attitude it seems.

[Keino]

i am utterly amazed at the extent that campbell is defended-- not necessarily by you per se-- but defended nevertheless..

separate his character and work ethic from his results.. he is backup material at best

He is (was I am stilled pissed about his comfy on the road comments) defended because:

1. You cannot separate his character and work ethic from his performance.
2. Even his most harshest critics acknowledged that he has been undermined by parts around him and that the best QBs in the league would have problems being successful on this team.

On the other hand, I am amazed that knowledgable football fans such as yourself can singlehandedly blame him for the loss. Based on his play yesterday and putting the team in position to be 2-3 scores ahead, he should never have been in position have to lead a comeback drive. Is it his fault guys don't remember the snap count? Is it his fault that the coaches can't get the plays in to the field in a timely fashion? Is it his fault that guys cannot line-up correctly and then he gets them in proper position, but the coach runs on the field and wastes a timout anyways? Is it his fault that our defense drops pick 6 INTS that hit them in the gut?

I have always maintained that JC is not game changer, but a game manager. That's what he was brought to DC to do.

[Keino]

Agreed.

On the same note, his overall situational awareness was on display midgame.

Just as he had made a first down on a nice throw, and just as Troy Aikman, who probably only gets to see Campbell a few times a season, was praising him and defending him from his many critics, Campbell absentmindedly let the play clock run to zero.

There was a close up on Campbell's face just as the flags dropped. He was nowhere ready to run a play, and a sudden look of surprise and consternation showed that Campbell had completely lost track of how much time he had.

He will never be a field general; he barely seems to be officer material.

You mean the delay that was eventually overturned by the replay wherein the play clock was never re-set to 40 seconds?

[shally]

He is (was I am stilled pissed about his comfy on the road comments) defended because:

1. You cannot separate his character and work ethic from his performance.
2. Even his most harshest critics acknowledged that he has been undermined by parts around him and that the best QBs in the league would have problems being successful on this team.

On the other hand, I am amazed that knowledgable football fans such as yourself can singlehandedly blame him for the loss. Based on his play yesterday and putting the team in position to be 2-3 scores ahead, he should never have been in position have to lead a comeback drive. Is it his fault guys don't remember the snap count? Is it his fault that the coaches can't get the plays in to the field in a timely fashion? Is it his fault that guys cannot line-up correctly and then he gets them in proper position, but the coach runs on the field and wastes a timout anyways? Is it his fault that our defense drops pick 6 INTS that hit them in the gut?

I have always maintained that JC is not game changer, but a game manager. That's what he was brought to DC to do.


let me be clear.. in NO way, do i blame Campbell solely for this loss, or for any other..BUT, he is clearly part of the problem..

and, yes, you HAVE to separate character/work ethic from results. it might be unfair, but that is the reality.. i dont know if he works any harder than ramsey, but neither of those guys are NFL starters, nor should they be.
bottom line is that he WONT be the Redskin starter next year. that much is certain. at that point, some other fan base can worry about him

[silverspring]

I thought JC played one of his better games. Most people seem to believe it was his best game of the season or at least very close to. But when a QB's best game has no tds on the stat line i think it tells us all we need to know.

[cal_junior]

1. You cannot separate his character and work ethic from his performance.


Can't you be a great person who busts his butt and not be a great player?

[Lacquer Head]

Campbell was lookin at the finishing of every play, from the ground. The guy is a soldier and i kinda feel bad for him.

What is going to be funny is when he goes somewhere next year, and shows his true talent.

Every week I am more and more convinced that Campbell is going to leave town, possibly for less money than we offer him (assuming we even try to re-sign him), and be a monster. He's got more heart than anyone else on that offense, and he's actually bringing his deep ball under control, something I never thought would actually happen.

On topic, I can't argue with Akh's points, as usual. Good write-up. However, the fact that Suisham had his one bad game vs. Dallas, in Dallas, is cause for concern..

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Can't you be a great person who busts his butt and not be a great player?

I was thinking this very thought this morning when Mike and Mike where talking about Charlie Weiss. He wanted to win badly. He worked very hard to win. He just didn't win. In most jobs, hard work can compensate for a lot, but not in sports. You either win and get credit or you lose and take blame regardless of how hard you did or did not work.

[Ibleedburgundy]

IMO, on a great team with good coaching, JC could be a game manager. If JC performs on the level he did yesterday, there are teams out there that could win with that. There are a lot of QBs who would have crumbled under those hits/pressure he took. JC stood strong and made 3rd down conversions with perhaps the worst O-line in the NFL up against a decent pass rush and a mix of inexperienced/young WRs who have shown virtually nothing and old WRs who just plain suck.

I'm not saying JC is good. I'm saying he's below average for a starter. Perhaps serviceable though.

Then again, on a team with clueless coaches and a weak supporting cast, it's kind of hard to tell.

[GreenspanDan]

he's an average QB with a horrible coaching situation, a horrible line, and a horrible running back situation. i'll leave the receivers out because it's hard to tell what they're worth yet. but the point is we have many problems more serious than Jason Campbell.

[Keino]

Can't you be a great person who busts his butt and not be a great player?

Yes, but the question was why people defend him and who he is and his work ethic has everything to do with that. Coupled with the point I made about the surrounding parts undermining him at every turn. (Because those points were meant to be taken together and were not mutually exclusive points)

If Patrick Ramsey had not pouted and bristled at the fact Brunell was brought in to compete with him, If he hadn't demanded a trade after he was replaced as a starter and otherwise whined when things didn't go his way, I would have defended him with equal vigor.

JC has handled his situation, for the most part, with the utmost class and this is a big reason why fans defend him (That and we can see that the issues with this team go well beyond the QB).

[skin4ever]

He is (was I am stilled pissed about his comfy on the road comments) defended because:

1. You cannot separate his character and work ethic from his performance.
2. Even his most harshest critics acknowledged that he has been undermined by parts around him and that the best QBs in the league would have problems being successful on this team.

On the other hand, I am amazed that knowledgable football fans such as yourself can singlehandedly blame him for the loss. Based on his play yesterday and putting the team in position to be 2-3 scores ahead, he should never have been in position have to lead a comeback drive. Is it his fault guys don't remember the snap count? Is it his fault that the coaches can't get the plays in to the field in a timely fashion? Is it his fault that guys cannot line-up correctly and then he gets them in proper position, but the coach runs on the field and wastes a timout anyways? Is it his fault that our defense drops pick 6 INTS that hit them in the gut?

I have always maintained that JC is not game changer, but a game manager. That's what he was brought to DC to do.

JC did not lose this game, by himself, but he and the offense are much more responsible for this loss than the defense. And being that hes the QB he takes much more criticism than anyone else. Thats the nature of the position. I think its also hilarious that some blame the defense moreso than the offense.

As for other QB's play if they were on this team. Hogwash.
A capable QB gets the job done. Look at Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Warner, Shaub, Gerrard. Those guys are under pressure all day long, but they still manage to get the job done. Yeah, sometimes they lose, b/c of the pressure(and their defensive play), but they score points.

[Keino]

JC did not lose this game, by himself, but he and the offense are much more responsible for this loss than the defense. And being that hes the QB he takes much more criticism than anyone else. Thats the nature of the position. I think its also hilarious that some blame the defense moreso than the offense.

As for other QB's play if they were on this team. Hogwash.
A capable QB gets the job done. Look at Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Warner, Shaub, Gerrard. Those guys are under pressure all day long, but they still manage to get the job done. Yeah, sometimes they lose, b/c of the pressure(and their defensive play), but they score points.

I really am done defending him. I am convinced he isn't the answer. But I've long been convinced he isn't THE problem.

I can go down the list of every QB you mention and demonstrate how their circumstances are exponentially better, but why should I bother. If you believe that those guys would be better than 3-7 on this team, more power to you. Feel free to blame total team failures on the QB.

Im done trying to convince you people.

[shally]

Yes, but the question was why people defend him and who he is and his work ethic has everything to do with that. Coupled with the point I made about the surrounding parts undermining him at every turn. (Because those points were meant to be taken together and were not mutually exclusive points)

If Patrick Ramsey had not pouted and bristled at the fact Brunell was brought in to compete with him, If he hadn't demanded a trade after he was replaced as a starter and otherwise whined when things didn't go his way, I would have defended him with equal vigor.

JC has handled his situation, for the most part, with the utmost class and this is a big reason why fans defend him (That and we can see that the issues with this team go well beyond the QB).


there is no question that Campbell has handled a very difficult situation with the utmost class and dignity.. but it doesnt make him an NFL starter.

you couldnt find a person with higher character than danny wuerffel. it didnt make him an NFL starter (or backup for that matter, either)

on the other hand, you have guys like jeff george who have all the talent you could ever want, but lack character or work ethic.. that doesnt work either

both sides of the equation have to be there..as much as i would like Campbell as a person, i have seen more than enough of him as Redskin starter to wish him well---elsewhere...

[shally]

JC did not lose this game, by himself, but he and the offense are much more responsible for this loss than the defense. And being that hes the QB he takes much more criticism than anyone else. Thats the nature of the position. I think its also hilarious that some blame the defense moreso than the offense.

As for other QB's play if they were on this team. Hogwash.
A capable QB gets the job done. Look at Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Warner, Shaub, Gerrard. Those guys are under pressure all day long, but they still manage to get the job done. Yeah, sometimes they lose, b/c of the pressure(and their defensive play), but they score points.

i agree with your position

[MoonshineDelight]

Every week I am more and more convinced that Campbell is going to leave town, possibly for less money than we offer him, and be a monster

What career have you been watching? Jason is a BAD QB. There are only a handful of starting QBs I'd rather NOT have. Jason is in his 5th year and is still as slow as the day he arrived. Everything about his play needs to be faster for me. His drop back, his LOS reads, his 2ndary reads, getting set, his delivery, and above all else his timing/accuracy is killing our threat. These faults only COMPOUND in the space-constrained red zone. Don't let the door hit you Jason! Snyder should be reserving 1-way bus tickets as we speak.

He's got more heart than anyone else on that offense, and he's actually bringing his deep ball under control, something I never thought would actually happen.

Deep control? Brunell threw 2 TD's with 3 minutes left in the game when he decided to take it upon himself to BEAT the COWBOYS! Jason? Down by 1-point our gifted up-and-coming 6.5ft "monster" QB ignores the passing lane and floats a duck off his back foot to the girls.. cementing his Redskins legacy as a QB that CANT. I hope for the love of everything merciful and benevolent, that we don't re-sign Jason Campbell. As a defense I would lick my chops to have the privilege to play #17 once/twice a year. After 5 years of this I'm convinced that anybody suggesting we should retain Jason Campbell, is in fact subverting for the other side! LOL.

We just lost to The Cowboys! Our offense scored ZERO points...AGAIN! Atleast he didn't throw another pick-6 , but how can you absolve this captain? Enough is enough.

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS

[BraveHeartFan]

Wow what a game to watch. I know it wasn't flashy, or super exciting to most, but I'm a defensive fan and I like to see a good defensive battle. I thought the Skins D played GREAT yesterday. Especially without Albert in there and with DHall being banged up for a large portion of the game.

As the game progressed I just kept thinking that, once again, they'd come in with more fire and aggression to beat Dallas and that we just simply weren't going to match it. I honestly figured, going into the 4th, that what would happen is we'd allow you guys a late TD of some sort that would essentially put the game away, much like Dallas did against Greenbay the week before, and I was definately pleasantly surprised, and obviously happy, to see the kicker miss 2 field goals that allowed us to stay in the game.

Now at the same time our kicker also missed an easy field goal early in the game and we missed out on a couple of drives cause of our fumble and then our typical stupid penalities that kill us, so I guess those two things cancel one another out and it came down to which teams defense would come up with the biggest play at the end.

Thankfully for us it was Bowen tipping the pass that Spencer picked off.

I thought Campbell looked pretty good yesterday, especially on third downs, until that very last drive.

You guys had me plenty scared going in, plenty scared during the game. It was fun and exciting for it to end the way it did and we'll see you guys again in December in what I expect will be another super tough game.

[Keino]

The question was why people defended him. I don't think my answer above can be any more clear.

I think he will have a Trent Dilfer type of career. He will toil as a Backup for a few years and get another shot and handle it well. He will never be a John Elway/Favre gunslinger, but he will manage games well and put his teams in positions to succeed....Assuming this line doesn't cause him to take a career ending injury, which is not out of the realm of possibility.

[wewantdallas]

I've been very critical of Jason this year, but he showed me something yesterday I didn't think he had in him on the field - mental toughness.

I mean, he's always been physically tough, in that he's been taking beatings for a long time and still always comes back for more. But there's a difference between just simply "coming back for more" and "coming back for more with passion and determination to do better," and the latter is what I saw from him yesterday. I thought he handled the pressure better than I've ever seen him handle it. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Unfortunately, that solid element of his play yesterday doesn't outweigh the continued bad/mediocre, which to me has to do with his game awareness and his ability to take control of a game.

Personally, I had no problem with kicking the FG with 15 seconds left on third down with no timeouts. And that's in part because I don't trust Campbell. On the play right before it, he made a VERY stupid decision to almost run out of bounds and take a five yard loss before throwing the ball away. Throwing it away was an afterthought that he JUST BARELY accomplished. A QB with his head totally in the game doesn't have that issue. I remember earlier in the season when he admitted to losing track of the distance for a first down on a crucial play. He makes mistakes like this often. So why take the chance of a mistake there and getting zero points (which obviously we got anyway) instead of the much higher-percentage FG attempt? I totally understand why this call was made, and again, this reflects on Campbell's penchant for poor decision-making in part.

And someone said his deep ball has improved. Really? What games have you been watching? You mean like the ridiculously overthrown ball to a wide-open Moss last week? I don't recall any long throws yesterday except for one first down pump fake that was nowhere close to a guy that was completely covered.

He's missed more deep balls than he's connected with, and to me, that's akin to a FG kicker missing a short field goal. You HAVE to make those plays.

As to the line, yes, that's obviously a huge issue with his development. Put Campbell behind the Hogs of '91, and maybe he performs almost as well as Rypien did back then (although with the way he's thrown that deep ball, I doubt it - Ryp was great at that). But obviously the Hogs aren't coming anytime soon, which means we need a QB who can take control of a game and make GAME-WINNING PLAYS under pressure, not just a solid game manager. Romo did that for Dallas yesterday. He stunk up the joint most of the day, but he made the big play on the big drive when his team had to have it. And I knew he would, too. I think most of us knew it. That down by less than a TD, Romo would lead that team down the field. But how many people here believed that Campbell would lead the Redskins down the field on THEIR last drive? No chance. I can't ever imagine Campbell doing this for us. Has he ever led the team on a game-winning drive? He may have, but I can't for the life of me think of one right now. Someone help me out.

But yeah, I really like Campbell a lot as a person. As the season has gone on, we've seen him carry himself with an incredible amount of class and dignity. And a guy like that, you WANT to have lead your team, you WANT to see succeed, because you can take PRIDE in having a man like that on your team. The problem is, all that goes down the drain when the results aren't there, and this is year 4 as a starter with no results.

[BurgundyNGold]

You were throwing him under the bus pretty hard, Shally. He's not a quality QB in this league but he kept one of the worst teams in NFL history in the game against a division leader.
That's just undocumented lol.

Apropos of nothing, Campbell does has the distinction of losing to one of the worst teams in NFL history to break their 19 game losing streak. Both of those facts are documented. ;)

OK, get back after it fellas. This make for good reading.

[BurgundyNGold]

IMO, on a great team with good coaching, JC could be a game manager. If JC performs on the level he did yesterday, there are teams out there that could win with that. There are a lot of QBs who would have crumbled under those hits/pressure he took. JC stood strong and made 3rd down conversions with perhaps the worst O-line in the NFL up against a decent pass rush and a mix of inexperienced/young WRs who have shown virtually nothing and old WRs who just plain suck.

I'm not saying JC is good. I'm saying he's below average for a starter. Perhaps serviceable though.

Then again, on a team with clueless coaches and a weak supporting cast, it's kind of hard to tell.
This is where I stand. I don't see how you can blame JC for the loss yesterday. I think the coaches are squarely to blame. Is JC good? Not really. He's just not accurate enough. I know that folks think that a pas is a pass is a pass, but accuracy is the difference between a slant that goes 6 yards and one that goes 60. He just doesn't have that right now.

As has been said, JC is a game manager, not a game winner. Is there anyone who honestly believed that the Redskins final drive would end up anything other than a turnover, either outright or on downs? JC can't do that. It's not his game. He's a manager. And on a crappy team, he's managing to look like crap sometimes. Yesterday, he actually looked pretty good.

[BurgundyNGold]

The question was why people defended him. I don't think my answer above can be any more clear.

I think he will have a Trent Dilfer type of career. He will toil as a Backup for a few years and get another shot and handle it well. He will never be a John Elway/Favre gunslinger, but he will manage games well and put his teams in positions to succeed....Assuming this line doesn't cause him to take a career ending injury, which is not out of the realm of possibility.
I agree with this assessment. I also think that sounds a lot, almost to the letter, like what you want out of a backup.

I think if JC played for Dallass, they score 24 yesterday.

[shally]

I agree with this assessment. I also think that sounds a lot, almost to the letter, like what you want out of a backup.

I think if JC played for Dallass, they score 24 yesterday.

are you actually saying that Campbell is:

A. a better QB than Romo
B. a better fit for the Dallas offense

Romo had receivers dropping balls, and was making inaccurate throws for over 3 quarters..BUT.. when Dallas took over inthe 4th quarter needing a TD to take the lead, there was virtually no doubt in my mind that Romo would get them that TD.. was there any in yours ?
and when Campbell got the ball back with 2 minutes left there was no doubt in my mind that the offense would find a way to fail.. was there any doubt in your mind ?

Romo has had his failures for sure, but throughout his starting career, he has made plays to win games

turn your statement around..Put Romo on the Redskin team yesterday and there is NO WAY they score only 6 points

[dj_stouty]

This is where I stand. I don't see how you can blame JC for the loss yesterday. I think the coaches are squarely to blame. Is JC good? Not really. He's just not accurate enough. I know that folks think that a pas is a pass is a pass, but accuracy is the difference between a slant that goes 6 yards and one that goes 60. He just doesn't have that right now.

As has been said, JC is a game manager, not a game winner. Is there anyone who honestly believed that the Redskins final drive would end up anything other than a turnover, either outright or on downs? JC can't do that. It's not his game. He's a manager. And on a crappy team, he's managing to look like crap sometimes. Yesterday, he actually looked pretty good.

I think Jason could be OK on another team...but only once he gets over his self-confidence issues. He seemed to be more confident early on with Gibbs than with Zorn. Zorn doesn't seem to be a high-pressure guy, so I'm not sure why all of the hesitation from JC. Maybe a change of pace will do the guy well...

[dj_stouty]

turn your statement around..Put Romo on the Redskin team yesterday and there is NO WAY they score only 6 points

I can agree with that. Romo may be a late-season choker and the enemy...but the guy is still heads better than Jason.

Problem is...Jason is an average-to-below-average QB on an average-to-below-average team. I'm starting to figure out the performances from him and this team are on par for the overall talent of this squad.

[shally]

I think Jason could be OK on another team...but only once he gets over his self-confidence issues. He seemed to be more confident early on with Gibbs than with Zorn. Zorn doesn't seem to be a high-pressure guy, so I'm not sure why all of the hesitation from JC. Maybe a change of pace will do the guy well...

honestly, i dont think it is a self confidence issue.. i just dont think he sees the field that well, and he lacks accuracy on top of it. he has zero feel for the long ball, throws an excellent intermediate ball, and is often behind on slants (ARE made a great catch on one yesterday).. he is starting to develop some touch on flares and wheel routes (again, Rock made an incredible catch and run on one in the first half yesterday).

he definitely lacks pocket presence and often moves into pressure instead of out of it.. he also has trust issues with some receivers and has had
it drummed into his head too much by Zorn not to take risks. this translates, i think, into hesitancy and that can be a killer because defensive backs are far too good about closing to be late on throws

he definitely needs a change of address for everyone's sake, including his own...

[shally]

I can agree with that. Romo may be a late-season choker and the enemy...but the guy is still heads better than Jason.

Problem is...Jason is an average-to-below-average QB on an average-to-below-average team. I'm starting to figure out the performances from him and this team are on par for the overall talent of this squad.

worst possible scenario

bad coaching staff
bad offensive line
mis-fit of offensive scheme
QB whose weaknesses cannot possibly overcome the above 3 problems

[Keino]

are you actually saying that Campbell is:

A. a better QB than Romo
B. a better fit for the Dallas offense

Romo had receivers dropping balls, and was making inaccurate throws for over 3 quarters..BUT.. when Dallas took over inthe 4th quarter needing a TD to take the lead, there was virtually no doubt in my mind that Romo would get them that TD.. was there any in yours ?
and when Campbell got the ball back with 2 minutes left there was no doubt in my mind that the offense would find a way to fail.. was there any doubt in your mind ?

Romo has had his failures for sure, but throughout his starting career, he has made plays to win games

turn your statement around..Put Romo on the Redskin team yesterday and there is NO WAY they score only 6 points

But it wasn't Romo that gave me that belief. He is a Collosal Choke Artist. What made me think that is that our Defensive Coordinator was going to Soft Zone it and play 20 yard cushions.

I dont know about you, but if you are going to murder me, please, make it a bullet to the dome. Dont' cut me in crucial places and leave me to bleed to death....

That's the Greg Blache way. Bleeds us and kills us softly like a Roberta Flack song....

And there is no way that, based on how he played, that this offense would have enjoyed more success with Romo.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I can agree with that. Romo may be a late-season choker and the enemy...but the guy is still heads better than Jason.


Yeah but when Romo is off he is god awful. He should have had 2 INTs in the first half yesterday. If Blache doesn't institute his bend-but-do-break-defense at the end there, Romo would be rightfully taking the blame for the loss.

[shally]

But it wasn't Romo that gave me that belief. He is a Collosal Choke Artist. What made me think that is that our Defensive Coordinator was going to Soft Zone it and play 20 yard cushions.

I dont know about you, but if you are going to murder me, please, make it a bullet to the dome. Dont' cut me in crucial places and leave me to bleed to death....

That's the Greg Blache way. Bleeds us and kills us softly like a Roberta Flack song....

And there is no way that, based on how he played, that this offense would have enjoyed more success with Romo.

i agree with every thing you said, right up until the last sentence.. all last year, Romo demonstrated the ability to get out of harm's way and make plays when he is flushed out of the pocket.. if he has nothing else, Romo can get out of the way of a pass rush. plus, he throws the ball down field a lot..
we might hate him for what he is, the Cowboy qb, but he is still much better than Campbell

[shally]

Yeah but when Romo is off he is god awful. He should have had 2 INTs in the first half yesterday. If Blache doesn't institute his bend-but-do-break-defense at the end there, Romo would be rightfully taking the blame for the loss.

we should have had 3 takeaways the first half alone.. yesterday was non-stop missed opportunities in all 3 phases of the game

missed chances on offense despite good field position
missed opportunies on defense because of dropped interceptions and poor tackling all game
missed chances on ST's because of 2 missed FG's and because ARE was used in punt return despite the fact that Moss had 10 yards on his only return

this was TOTAL failure.. there is NO way we should have lost that game

how snyder didnt give Zorn the "norv treatment" and fire him at the end of the game is beyond me.. he should have fired cerrato at the same time

[Keino]

i agree with every thing you said, right up until the last sentence.. all last year, Romo demonstrated the ability to get out of harm's way and make plays when he is flushed out of the pocket.. if he has nothing else, Romo can get out of the way of a pass rush. plus, he throws the ball down field a lot..
we might hate him for what he is, the Cowboy qb, but he is still much better than Campbell

At no point has Romo faced pressure like Campbell did yesterday and he was still awful. Based on his play yesterday, we would have been lucky to have 3 points with Romo.

I realize that Romo has some nice escapability, but the fact remains that he was awful until Blache decided to dial down the defense. There was no escaping the hits that Campbell was taking yesterday.

[Keino]

we should have had 3 takeaways the first half alone.. yesterday was non-stop missed opportunities in all 3 phases of the game

missed chances on offense despite good field position
missed opportunies on defense because of dropped interceptions and poor tackling all game
missed chances on ST's because of 2 missed FG's and because ARE was used in punt return despite the fact that Moss had 10 yards on his only return

this was TOTAL failure.. there is NO way we should have lost that game

how snyder didnt give Zorn the "norv treatment" and fire him at the end of the game is beyond me.. he should have fired cerrato at the same time



I think Snyder knows that firing Zorn at this point is futile.

[skin4ever]

But it wasn't Romo that gave me that belief. He is a Collosal Choke Artist. What made me think that is that our Defensive Coordinator was going to Soft Zone it and play 20 yard cushions.

I dont know about you, but if you are going to murder me, please, make it a bullet to the dome. Dont' cut me in crucial places and leave me to bleed to death....

That's the Greg Blache way. Bleeds us and kills us softly like a Roberta Flack song....

And there is no way that, based on how he played, that this offense would have enjoyed more success with Romo.

Sadly, thats a perfect comment about our team's view of playing defense.

[akhhorus]

All I'll say is that people should be careful to get what they wish for lol.

[Brokenstriker]

You were throwing him under the bus pretty hard, Shally. He's not a quality QB in this league but he kept one of the worst teams in NFL history in the game against a division leader.

Shouldn't give him credit for keeping them in the game ... that credit should go to the defense. Give him credit for what he did ... put the team in position to attempt 4 field goals ... max 12 points (6 in actuality). Not usually enough to expect to win in the NFL ... unless your defense plays a great game. Granted he did that behind a sketchy O Line so plusses there. But he also had a chance to win the game at the end and didn't get it done.

[shally]

Shouldn't give him credit for keeping them in the game ... that credit should go to the defense. Give him credit for what he did ... put the team in position to attempt 4 field goals ... max 12 points (6 in actuality). Not usually enough to expect to win in the NFL ... unless your defense plays a great game. Granted he did that behind a sketchy O Line so plusses there. But he also had a chance to win the game at the end and didn't get it done.

that is how i see it..again, when you hold the leader of your division to 7 points at their house there is little to complain about your defense...

[cal_junior]

JC has handled his situation, for the most part, with the utmost class and this is a big reason why fans defend him (That and we can see that the issues with this team go well beyond the QB).

This is certainly true.

[BraveHeartFan]

are you actually saying that Campbell is:

A. a better QB than Romo
B. a better fit for the Dallas offense

Romo had receivers dropping balls, and was making inaccurate throws for over 3 quarters..BUT.. when Dallas took over inthe 4th quarter needing a TD to take the lead, there was virtually no doubt in my mind that Romo would get them that TD.. was there any in yours ?
and when Campbell got the ball back with 2 minutes left there was no doubt in my mind that the offense would find a way to fail.. was there any doubt in your mind ?

Romo has had his failures for sure, but throughout his starting career, he has made plays to win games

turn your statement around..Put Romo on the Redskin team yesterday and there is NO WAY they score only 6 points

Depends on a couple of things but I think Romo would have been fine on you guys side yesterday because your receivers were catching the balls that hit their hands. Romo was off Sunday, of that there is no doubt, but there were a handful of chances to make plays, by the WR's (Roy Williams in particular) that they simply didn't catch it. Romo's day would have looked a lot better if not for 4 dropped passes.

That said I don't think Jason Campbell looked bad Sunday except on that tip at the end.

I can agree with that. Romo may be a late-season choker and the enemy...but the guy is still heads better than Jason.

Problem is...Jason is an average-to-below-average QB on an average-to-below-average team. I'm starting to figure out the performances from him and this team are on par for the overall talent of this squad.

Here is the thing about that whole late season choker deal and I've argued this with the Cowboys fans that hate him. This is a team game. TEAM. There are a few games that I can think of, easily (Giants in the playoffs, Ravens last year, Eagles last year) where Romo has taken all the blame from Cowboys fans, and Cowboy haters, alike and the reality is that he was the biggest reason they were ever even in those games.

Everyone knows that the Seattle loss in the 06 season goes on him for the dropped field goal, and I can agree with that, but even then there are a couple of examples in that game that if others showed up, when they should have, that play never happens. Why was Terry Glenn not considered a choker when he fumbled the ball in the endzone and cost Dallas in that game? How about Jason Witten making the catch, on the play before the field goal, and not fighting a little harder to make sure he got the first down for a first and goal? And then on the missed field goal as well if the Kicker did anything, ANYTHING, at all to get in the way of the guy who ran Romo down from behind then Romo would have walked into the endzone with a TD on that play. I mean in that game I give Romo the shoulder of the blame for the drop but that was hardly the only factor.


Now lets look at the Giants playoff game that everyone wants to blame him for. Are you kidding me? Really? This is the one, more than any other, that bugs me.


The first thing I point to there is how Romo lead the offense down the field, draining the clock with passing and running, right before half to give us a 14-7 lead, knowing we get the ball back to start the second half. So what does the defense do?

Why it folds. Folds up easier than a paper airplane. The Giants got the ball back with barely a minute to go in the half and our D let them march right down for a game tying TD.

Second lets go to the dropped TD pass by Fasano, on that first possession of the 3rd quarter, that caused Dallas to have to settle for a field goal. Romo hit him with a perfect pass, right in the numbers, and he dropped it. Instead of going up 21-14 there we're up only 17-14. That cost us 4 points right there. You have those and we're tied, at worst, at the end and instead of having to try to score a TD we kick a field goal and win.

Then there was the drop on 3rd and Long, at the end of the third quarter, by Crayton that would have not only been a first down but he had room to run for another 10 or more yards, at least. That play TOTALLY changes him the game if Crayton just catches a ball that hit him right in the hands. Instead we punt, they get a great return, and have the ball at like our 30. HUGE mistake by Crayton. He catches that and Dallas keeps possession into the 4th quarter and at the worst gets another field goal on that possession.

Now we're in the 4th and the final possession. Romo drives them down and with 14 seconds remaining on the clock throws a picture perfect pass to Crayton, over the shoulder, into the endzone. Game winner. Easy.

WRONG. Crayton, for some stupid reason, decides to stop on his route midway through and then couldnt get to the ball afterwards. That stop cost him missing Romos pass by a yard and a half. It was an easy pitch and catch but Crayton, again, choked in the game and yet Romo gets the blame. Romo was by far the least of our problems in that game.


Now I'll go to the Ravens game last year. He struggled in the first half, without a doubt, but we went into the half down by 3. IN the th quarter, when we needed him most, Romo took us on two straight long scoring drives to put us in the game, and give us a shot to win it on our next possessions, only to watch as the defense decided it wasn't going to play anymore that day and let the Ravens score on back to back running plays of 70+ yards. Again Romo took the crap from fans and people blaming him for the december loss but last I checked he doesn't play defense. Thats on the defense all the way.

Then the Philly debacle last year. He got blamed cause of his fumble, in the second half, that was returned for a TD while he was scrambling and trying to make a play to get them back in the game. But no one seems to remember the fumble by Barber, inside the 5 yard line the drive before, that got returned or the fact that the defense simply decided they were not going to play, at all, on the day.

Romo isn't perfect, by any means, but he's taken this choke lable from people that really, if people bothered to watch more than the hand selected highlights by sports shows, isn't warranted at all.


Yeah but when Romo is off he is god awful. He should have had 2 INTs in the first half yesterday. If Blache doesn't institute his bend-but-do-break-defense at the end there, Romo would be rightfully taking the blame for the loss.

He did luck out yesterday on them dropping those two give me picks. He's really lucky on the first that Witten thought that throw was to him (I actually believe he was trying to hit Roy behind him) cause if he didn't tip that ball then Fletcher would have easily made that pick.

At no point has Romo faced pressure like Campbell did yesterday and he was still awful. Based on his play yesterday, we would have been lucky to have 3 points with Romo.

I realize that Romo has some nice escapability, but the fact remains that he was awful until Blache decided to dial down the defense. There was no escaping the hits that Campbell was taking yesterday.


Couldnt disagree more about the pressure thing. People, especially Cowboys fans, seriously over-rate the Cowboys offensive line. It's actually, at best, very average in pass protection. They just look so great, stat wise (sacks and jazz), cause Romo is able to move so well taht he avoids a ton of pressures that would be sacks on most other QBs. If you put guys like brady or Manning or Rivers behidn our line, you know guys who can't really move around all that great, they'd be sacked to death. Romo, and it was shown last year perfectly when Brad Johnson was in there for 3 games, makes this offensive line look like All-Pros when they're really just a bunch of JAGs.

[shally]

totally agree about Romo's escapability.. he makes the o line look better than they are.. it has been a long time since i have seen a player make so many positive yardage plays out of near disasters as Romo

[Fathead]

Big Ben does it better.

[shally]

Big Ben does it better.

big ben gets creamed, whereas Romo gets away from pressure better.. i agree that Ben makes a ton of plays, but he also gets sacked constantly, and is getting battered relentlessly.. he is not going to have a long career at this rate.
Romo, on the other hand must dip himself in astroglide before every game..(probably after it as well).. it is maddening to see how he gets away from pressure--especially when the ball is on the ground, or snapped over his head..

[Keino]

Couldnt disagree more about the pressure thing. People, especially Cowboys fans, seriously over-rate the Cowboys offensive line. It's actually, at best, very average in pass protection. They just look so great, stat wise (sacks and jazz), cause Romo is able to move so well taht he avoids a ton of pressures that would be sacks on most other QBs. If you put guys like brady or Manning or Rivers behidn our line, you know guys who can't really move around all that great, they'd be sacked to death. Romo, and it was shown last year perfectly when Brad Johnson was in there for 3 games, makes this offensive line look like All-Pros when they're really just a bunch of JAGs.

I am not one who overrates the Cowboys' offensive line. As bad as they are, they are miles ahead of the hodge-podge line the Redskins are/were rolling out. The point I was making was in reference to the play where Romo threw the TD. Romo had to escape one hit, which was not a clean shot and then had nobody near him (in part because we rushed 3 linemen and dropped 8 into coverage on the goaline) and was afforded the opportunity to make a play because our brilliant scheme had our MLB trying to cover a speedy WR. Campbell on the other hand, was making the first guy miss a lot on Sunday. The problem is that there was 1 or 2 other players he had to avoid in addition to the one he made miss all day.

Romo had a lot more time than Campbell did, all day, and yet Campbell was the better performer.....up until the point our defense decided to stop playing aggressively. I don't care how well he escapes, he would not be able to escape from the pressure that Campbell sees week in and week out, because a lot of it comes from the right side and the middle at the same time.

[skin4ever]

I am not one who overrates the Cowboys' offensive line. As bad as they are, they are miles ahead of the hodge-podge line the Redskins are/were rolling out. The point I was making was in reference to the play where Romo threw the TD. Romo had to escape one hit, which was not a clean shot and then had nobody near him (in part because we rushed 3 linemen and dropped 8 into coverage on the goaline) and was afforded the opportunity to make a play because our brilliant scheme had our MLB trying to cover a speedy WR. Campbell on the other hand, was making the first guy miss a lot on Sunday. The problem is that there was 1 or 2 other players he had to avoid in addition to the one he made miss all day.

Romo had a lot more time than Campbell did, all day, and yet Campbell was the better performer.....up until the point our defense decided to stop playing aggressively. I don't care how well he escapes, he would not be able to escape from the pressure that Campbell sees week in and week out, because a lot of it comes from the right side and the middle at the same time.

For what its worth, NFL.com has added oline stats. Romo has been sacked 23 times and has been hit 42, whereas Campbell has been sacked 32 times and hit 54. I dont know what to make out of it, but thats 1 sack more a game and 1 more hit per week(give or take). Problem with Campbell is, even if he has time, hes not accurate with the ball and he isnt confident in himself or the WR so he holds onto the ball too long.(cant comment on Romo, cause i think hes a bum Qb and im happy to face him 2 times a year-skins bias.)

[BraveHeartFan]

Big Ben does it better.

Possibly so. I don't care if thats the case I have nothing against Big Ben.


I am not one who overrates the Cowboys' offensive line. As bad as they are, they are miles ahead of the hodge-podge line the Redskins are/were rolling out. The point I was making was in reference to the play where Romo threw the TD. Romo had to escape one hit, which was not a clean shot and then had nobody near him (in part because we rushed 3 linemen and dropped 8 into coverage on the goaline) and was afforded the opportunity to make a play because our brilliant scheme had our MLB trying to cover a speedy WR. Campbell on the other hand, was making the first guy miss a lot on Sunday. The problem is that there was 1 or 2 other players he had to avoid in addition to the one he made miss all day.

Romo had a lot more time than Campbell did, all day, and yet Campbell was the better performer.....up until the point our defense decided to stop playing aggressively. I don't care how well he escapes, he would not be able to escape from the pressure that Campbell sees week in and week out, because a lot of it comes from the right side and the middle at the same time.

Eh. Maybe, maybe not. You're taking into account one game, and one game only, without factoring in the fact that defenses would play you differently with a QB other than Campbell back there. Teams can afford to try and bring more guys against your poor O-Line because they don't fear Campbell making them pay for it. With Romo there would be more fear of him getting the ball to his recievers for big plays if they sent too many after him.

*Shrugs* could go either way I suppose. I'd take Romo behind any O-Line, any day of the week, over Campbell though but maybe that's just me.


For what its worth, NFL.com has added oline stats. Romo has been sacked 23 times and has been hit 42, whereas Campbell has been sacked 32 times and hit 54. I dont know what to make out of it, but thats 1 sack more a game and 1 more hit per week(give or take). Problem with Campbell is, even if he has time, hes not accurate with the ball and he isnt confident in himself or the WR so he holds onto the ball too long.(cant comment on Romo, cause i think hes a bum Qb and im happy to face him 2 times a year-skins bias.)

Nothing wrong with that. We're all bias one way or another. It's all good. :)