Grade the Redskins: Post Saints game

[CarMike]

Offense

Defense

Special Teams

Coaches

[CarMike]

Offense A-

Defense D-

Special Teams D

Coaches F

[BurgundyNGold]

Offense: B+ (would have been an A but Campbell found a way to blow another final drive)
Defense: D (470 yards, 33 points and another game losing drive at the end)
Special Teams: D- (thanks only to Hunter Smith's excellent punt)
Coaching: C- (consistently inconsistent)

[RedskinsDave]

F to all for failing in the clutch.

Offense couldn't put the game away and turned the ball over twice when it mattered most.

Defense couldn't hold a ten point lead three times, especially on the last drive.

Special teams include Ray Finkle, so nuff said.

Coaches need to follow the yellow brick road since they're gutless, heartless and brainless.

[CarMike]

F to all for failing in the clutch.

Offense couldn't put the game away and turned the ball over twice when it mattered most.

Defense couldn't hold a ten point lead three times, especially on the last drive.

Special teams include Ray Finkle, so nuff said.

Coaches need to follow the yellow brick road since they're gutless, heartless and brainless.

LOL, great post Dave. Can't argue.

[Farmer Ted]

The coaching sucked, but at least Lewis seems to have a clue. NO came into the game with a guy off the streets playing cornerback, and an awful secondary in general. What did he do? He attacked the weakness. If Zorn were calling the game, we'd have been running the ball all game long and throwing short passes for nothing. It's really rare the last few years to see the Skins game-plan towards a team's weaknesses; we usually just see the same old crap game in and game out (like against the Giants in the opener, when their secondary was a mess).

[zeps067]

Offense: B+ (would have been an A but Campbell found a way to blow another final drive)
Defense: D (470 yards, 33 points and another game losing drive at the end)
Special Teams: D- (thanks only to Hunter Smith's excellent punt)
Coaching: C- (consistently inconsistent)

again i ask..wat drive r u referring to?..u talkin about the int with 30 sec in the game?..or the drive that sellers fumbled on?

[Monk4HOF]

Offense... B... the Campbell INT should have been the end of the game - it should have been returned for a pick 6. The Sellers fumble knocked the grade down from A- to B (also would have been returned for a TD if whistle not blown). Without those two plays (ie if Suis made a 23 yd FG) they would have scored an A+ in my book. Many props to Thomas, Davis and the RBBC.

Defense... C-.... did a nice job for most of the day against the NFLs best offense. Shutdown the running game. With a real FS, they would have been a B+. With Landry... C-.

Special Teams...F... Suisham.

Coaches... F... great offensive game plan. Good playcalling (I am sorry, Sherman Lewis has made a difference). Can't seem to coach against the dreaded "double dog move." This would have been a C, but the F comes from not cutting Suisham within 3 hours of the final whistle.

[Fathead]

Fail
Fail
Fail
Fail






I'm still so pissed today that if given the opportunity I would pull the trigger for every person in the organization if they were lined up in a firing squad.

[BurgundyNGold]

again i ask..wat drive r u referring to?..u talkin about the int with 30 sec in the game?..or the drive that sellers fumbled on?
I'm not sure what you're referring to lol.

If you mean about Campbell, yeah, he blew another last drive opportunity. Aside from the "7 comebacks in the 4th quarter to win or tie" graphic (most of which were under Gibbs where Portis or Betts got 10 or 12 carries while Jason had 2 or 3 throws) you have to look at the final drive.

How many times has Jason taken us down the field to tie or go ahead on the final drive of the game -- when it matters most? Like Romo, McNabb and Brees have done against us in successive weeks? I think the number is zero. I can recall 3 or more games where he threw a pick in that situation, though. 2 this year, in fact.

And it's a crying shame because Jason had a stellar, STELLAR performance up until that point. He played a great game but he still, after 5 years, has not taken that step. Right or wrong, that's what people are going to remember about him.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I thought the bingo caller had a great day. Wonder if there are any other bingo callers out there who coach defense. :confused:

[silverspring]

I thought the bingo caller had a great day. Wonder if there are any other bingo callers out there who coach defense. :confused:

Everyone seems to be patting sherman lewis on the back. When there is bad plays we blame zorn, when there are good calls we give lewis credit. I am not saying the credit goes to zorn, but it is a bit unfair how he is shouldering all the blame but none of the credit. No one really knows who is making the decisions on a call by call basis, but we do know that Sherman, Zorn and Smith are all heavily involved.

I am more interested in giving credit to whoever is responsible for the game planning which seemed to be done quite well. I assume this credit goes to zorn.

[akhhorus]

Everyone seems to be patting sherman lewis on the back. When there is bad plays we blame zorn, when there are good calls we give lewis credit. I am not saying the credit goes to zorn, but it is a bit unfair how he is shouldering all the blame but none of the credit. No one really knows who is making the decisions on a call by call basis, but we do know that Sherman, Zorn and Smith are all heavily involved.

I am more interested in giving credit to whoever is responsible for the game planning which seemed to be done quite well. I assume this credit goes to zorn.

What?

Zorn's only input, from what we know, is putting in some of the 3rd down calls. That and the fact that the skins seem to be running a totally different offense since Lewis got control makes me question if Zorn deserves any credit for whats going on offensively.

[Fathead]

Its no coincidence that the offense has suddenly woke up since Lewis was given play calling duties.




Zorn is a total failure. He sucks at playcalling, execution, motivation, and has created a culture of ZERO accountability. The fact that Suisham is still a skin right now speaks to that.

[Bengal224ord]

What?

Zorn's only input, from what we know, is putting in some of the 3rd down calls. That and the fact that the skins seem to be running a totally different offense since Lewis got control makes me question if Zorn deserves any credit for whats going on offensively.

Zorn has admitted that his plays against the Eagles...did not work. He called the Jason Int play before the half (JC's fault), and he called a screen which gain -2. Back to the Saint's game, I can tell you when I saw us running the stretch play down close to the goal line, I knew it was Zorn. I think Coach should not call any plays, just help put in the game plan. Last shot, Zorn should have went for the knock out at the end of the game. A TD seals the deal and my drive home would have been happy.

Bengal224ord

[Ibleedburgundy]

Everyone seems to be patting sherman lewis on the back. When there is bad plays we blame zorn, when there are good calls we give lewis credit. I am not saying the credit goes to zorn, but it is a bit unfair how he is shouldering all the blame but none of the credit. No one really knows who is making the decisions on a call by call basis, but we do know that Sherman, Zorn and Smith are all heavily involved.

I am more interested in giving credit to whoever is responsible for the game planning which seemed to be done quite well. I assume this credit goes to zorn.

Forgive me if this article reads like a VCR manual, but I think we know how the plays are called for the most part. I'm comparing the plays that were called before Sherman Lewis was here vs. the plays that were called after he got here. Sure, there were some bad ones after he got here, but IMO the improvement is undeniable. Proof is in the pudding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/04/AR2009120402855.html

edit: Also I think Zorn is inextricably linked to the improved offense. Perhaps the plan is better in part because of him.

[silverspring]

What?

Zorn's only input, from what we know, is putting in some of the 3rd down calls. That and the fact that the skins seem to be running a totally different offense since Lewis got control makes me question if Zorn deserves any
credit for whats going on offensively.

From what i have gathered he has a larger role. As you say zorn has 3rd down input, but I have also heard/read them say he has input during crucial moments such as: 2minute drills and in the red zone. We also know that Sherman Smith calls all the running plays. There has been a lot of ambiguity surrounding this, but it all points to zorn doing more than just 3rd down plays.

Also, it has been made clear that sherman lewis has nothing to do with designing plays. Players have gone on the record saying that they have zero interaction with lewis during the practice and game planning week. So if you are seeing a whole new offense, he sure didn't make it up. Even if he is participating a little in the game planning, he clearly isn't installing it. That is all zorn.

Forgive me if this article reads like a VCR manual, but I think we know how the plays are called for the most part. I'm comparing the plays that were called before Sherman Lewis was here vs. the plays that were called after he got here. Sure, there were some bad ones after he got here, but IMO the improvement is undeniable. Proof is in the pudding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/04/AR2009120402855.html

edit: Also I think Zorn is inextricably linked to the improved offense. Perhaps the plan is better in part because of him.

No question, the offense has been a lot more successful, i think sherman lewis probably plays a part in that improvement but i am not sure how much.
-As I mentioned the game planning has improved. I am pretty sure that is all zorn. It also seems like zorn has installed some new plays or maybe it is that sherman lewis started using the existing plays which feature the youngins.
-The running game has improved dramatically. But Sherman smith is responsible for calling the actual running plays. The other change is the loss of clinton portis.
-Also, there has been some improvement in the offensive line, at least since its low point. A lot of people here point to that as a reason for a lot of improvement.

With all these factors it is hard to tell if sherman lewis has been the big difference maker. In general it is very hard to identify who is responsible for what improvement. I have to wonder if we would see the exact same improvement w/o the addition of sherman lewis.

One aspect of this convoluted play calling by committee that we are sure about is that zorn calls 3rd down plays.
Zorn's 3rd down efficiency was 29% before sherman lewis took over
Zorn's 3rd down efficiency after sherman lewis took over is now 47%

This is a massive increase on the most important down. So this really confuses the issue of who is responsible for the improvement and it certainly points to zorn as the main force behind the improvement. Food for thought.

[Fathead]

No, it means that the offense instead of having 3rd and 8 or worse is now in 3rd and 5 or better because Lewis has fewer negative plays.



Zorn had us in 3rd and a mile all the damn time.

[akhhorus]

From what i have gathered he has a larger role. As you say zorn has 3rd down input, but I have also heard/read them say he has input during crucial moments such as: 2minute drills and in the red zone. We also know that Sherman Smith calls all the running plays. There has been a lot of ambiguity surrounding this, but it all points to zorn doing more than just 3rd down plays.

So, Zorn gets credit for the turnaround offensively for just having occasional input on big plays and putting in 3rd downs? That doesn't make sense. Lewis would still be more responsible unless Zorn is overruling him on a majority of plays(and that doesn't seem plausible).

Also, it has been made clear that sherman lewis has nothing to do with designing plays. Players have gone on the record saying that they have zero interaction with lewis during the practice and game planning week. So if you are seeing a whole new offense, he sure didn't make it up. Even if he is participating a little in the game planning, he clearly isn't installing it. That is all zorn.

Lewis is using Zorn's playbook, and while Zorn is interjecting from time to time, the play on the field speaks for itself: the skins' passing attack clearly looks much better since Lewis took control of the play-calling. Zorn gets no credit for improving the offense if Lewis is the one who making the better calls--even if Zorn has some input in the 3rd down/crucial moments. Unless you can show which plays he's responsible for and how they did well during the game.

[silverspring]

No, it means that the offense instead of having 3rd and 8 or worse is now in 3rd and 5 or better because Lewis has fewer negative plays.



Zorn had us in 3rd and a mile all the damn time.

I thought this was an interesting point, so i did the math.
Before Sherman Lewis we averaged 7.45 yards to go on 3rd down
After Sherman Lewis we averaged 6.81 yards to go on 3rd down

I don't think a difference of < 1 yard is significant enough to make that point.


So, Zorn gets credit for the turnaround offensively for just having occasional input on big plays and putting in 3rd downs? That doesn't make sense. Lewis would still be more responsible unless Zorn is overruling him on a majority of plays(and that doesn't seem plausible).

I don't really know, the point of me posting this was because i think it is something worthy of discussion.

But you certainly wouldn't disagree that 3rd down play calling takes a large part of the calls and one of the most important pieces. When you consider that zorn improved his 3rd down calls by 18% you have to give him at least some credit.

Lewis is using Zorn's playbook, and while Zorn is interjecting from time to time, the play on the field speaks for itself: the skins' passing attack clearly looks much better since Lewis took control of the play-calling. Zorn gets no credit for improving the offense if Lewis is the one who making the better calls--even if Zorn has some input in the 3rd down/crucial moments. Unless you can show which plays he's responsible for and how they did well during the game.

I agree the passing attack, not only looks better the stats indicate that it is better. But I wouldn't give sherman lewis all the credit for it.

Lewis only calls 1st and 2nd down plays. He also doesn't call some of the 2 minute and red zone plays.
Considering 3rd down is a big passing down and this is zorn's responsibility you have to give zorn some of the credit for improving the passing game. Secondly the game planning is on zorn as well and you have to agree that it appears much improved. They are using their players better.

If lewis is responsible for anything, it is improving the tempo.

The point of this discussion is to determine how much lewis has contributed to the improvement and if the team would have improved just as much w/o him.

Let me pose some more food for thought. If zorn has improved 18% in 3rd down conversion then if he took over all the play calls, would he also have a similar result on 1st and 2nd down? Or is it that maybe zorn is more successful on 3rd down now because he has less responsibility and is able to have the time to make a smarter decision?

[akhhorus]

I don't really know, the point of me posting this was because i think it is something worthy of discussion.

But you certainly wouldn't disagree that 3rd down play calling takes a large part of the calls and one of the most important pieces. When you consider that zorn improved his 3rd down calls by 18% you have to give him at least some credit.


How much is Zorn making those calls and how much is Lewis changing Zorn's calls from during the week? I don't buy for a second that Zorn sets up the 3rd down calls for certain situations and Lewis stays to those calls regardless of situation/matchup.

I agree the passing attack, not only looks better the stats indicate that it is better. But I wouldn't give sherman lewis all the credit for it.

How can Zorn get any credit at all? All your comments are based on a premise that Zorn suddenly figured out his problems and fixed them. That not plausible.

Lewis only calls 1st and 2nd down plays. He also doesn't call some of the 2 minute and red zone plays.
Considering 3rd down is a big passing down and this is zorn's responsibility you have to give zorn some of the credit for improving the passing game. Secondly the game planning is on zorn as well and you have to agree that it appears much improved. They are using their players better.


In order:
1. No, Zorn has some input in those situations, but to say Lewis has none doesn't seem plausible at all.
2.See my previous comment about 3rd downs.
3.The game planning isn't better, the calls/adjustments are. That's on Lewis.

If lewis is responsible for anything, it is improving the tempo.


And making the calls.

The point of this discussion is to determine how much lewis has contributed to the improvement and if the team would have improved just as much w/o him.


So, your theory is that Zorn suddenly figured out how to improve his play calling, which had been struggling for 15-18 straight games, and Lewis just nudged him to improve himself? Or just slightly helped with tempo/1st and 2nd downs? Thats just impossible.

Let me pose some more food for thought. If zorn has improved 18% in 3rd down conversion then if he took over all the play calls, would he also have a similar result on 1st and 2nd down? Or is it that maybe zorn is more successful on 3rd down now because he has less responsibility and is able to have the time to make a smarter decision?

See previous comment about 3rd downs. Do you honestly believe that Lewis sticks to all of Zorn's 3rd down calls from the week before?

The problem is that you're looking at any improvement and crediting it to Zorn. Lewis in charge of the offense, not Zorn. Zorn can overrule(but isn't doing it more than a few times per game) and he helps set up the 3rd down calls during the week. But Lewis isn't bound to stick to those. And if the Skins have a set up where Lewis only calls 1st and 2nd down, while Zorn calls 3rd, then its a bigger cluster f*ck than imagined. And the passing game looks clearly different since Lewis took control, even on 3rd downs and especially in the red zone. I don't buy for a second that Zorn suddenly figured out what he was doing wrong while Lewis didn't help that much.

[silverspring]

How much is Zorn making those calls and how much is Lewis changing Zorn's calls from during the week? I don't buy for a second that Zorn sets up the 3rd down calls for certain situations and Lewis stays to those calls regardless of situation/matchup.

I have no idea what you are talking about? Zorn calls 3rd down plays, end of story, he doesn't set them up, he calls them.


How can Zorn get any credit at all? All your comments are based on a premise that Zorn suddenly figured out his problems and fixed them. That not plausible.

I just explained to you how zorn is calling a good deal of the plays. We know he calls all the 3rd down plays and we know for a fact that he has improved significantly. This is one of those discussions that would be more fruitful if you acknowledge other people's points of view and facts even if they don't support your point of view.

I pointed out many factors here. The change of running back, the offensive line changes, sherman smith calling running plays, etc. Clearly sherman lewis isn't the only thing that changed so why do you totally disregard these other factors?


In order:
1. No, Zorn has some input in those situations, but to say Lewis has none doesn't seem plausible at all.
2.See my previous comment about 3rd downs.
3.The game planning isn't better, the calls/adjustments are. That's on Lewis.

1)So, i agree they both make some calls on these situations, whats your point? Your choices are simple, you can either giving them both credit or neither.
2)Those comments make no sense
3)I respectfully disagree, there has clearly been an improvement in the game planning. We have gotten a ton of players involved in different ways then I have seen before, this isn't simply play calling.

And making the calls.

Of course, I said he was most responsible for changing the tempo. His only responsibility is calling plays, so what do you think i meant?

So, your theory is that Zorn suddenly figured out how to improve his play calling, which had been struggling for 15-18 straight games, and Lewis just nudged him to improve himself? Or just slightly helped with tempo/1st and 2nd downs? Thats just impossible.

It isn't a theory. I showed you the stats, those are the facts. The question is how much of this is zorn and how much is lewis. You can either make stupid comments like this or you can look at the facts and we can discuss what they mean.

See previous comment about 3rd downs. Do you honestly believe that Lewis sticks to all of Zorn's 3rd down calls from the week before?

Zorn makes the calls man, what are you talking about "the week before"???

The problem is that you're looking at any improvement and crediting it to Zorn. Lewis in charge of the offense, not Zorn. Zorn can overrule(but isn't doing it more than a few times per game) and he helps set up the 3rd down calls during the week. But Lewis isn't bound to stick to those. And if the Skins have a set up where Lewis only calls 1st and 2nd down, while Zorn calls 3rd, then its a bigger cluster f*ck than imagined. And the passing game looks clearly different since Lewis took control, even on 3rd downs and especially in the red zone. I don't buy for a second that Zorn suddenly figured out what he was doing wrong while Lewis didn't help that much.


I have no idea where you got the notion that zorn sets up 3rd down calls the week before but doesn't make them. It is a cluster @#$ i agree.

You should try reading my posts. Like I said i think the improvement is a result of a combination of things. I posted this to explore the question of how much of the improvement rests on lewis' shoulders, not to argue with you. Based on your posts, you obviously think lewis is the sole force responsible for the improvement. Yet the stats i dug up clearly point to zorn deserving a good deal of that credit. I don't know how you can disregard them. As to the reason that caused the change, who knows. Maybe it just started coming together. Maybe the zorn being stripped of play calling duties spurred a major change in his thinking and resulted in the improvement.

[Death_Venom]

Here's the GRADES:

Offense: B+: I like Ganther at RB-would not mind seeing the Skins keep him around. JC's last interception would not have happened if Swoosher made an easy field goal. As far as Sellers OT fumble he looked down by contact-adn I believe that the Skins offense has already snapped the ball when the time was called. Overall the passing game looked good, Fred Davis looked good and so did Thomas.

Defense: C+: Surprisingly the defense did a decent job of stifling the vaunted Saints offense, at least until it really counted. Even the commentators were mentioning the HUGE cushions the CB were giving the Saints WR's. I think a REAL DC would make a major difference on this team.

Specials Teams D-: Swoosher needs to GO. NOW. PERIOD. Beyond HIM the kick-off coverage was decent.

Coaching B+/D-: I dont think Zorns input is too great at this point. I think Sherman is essentially guiding this team. Blanche-well he needs to be SHOT. AGAIN I think with a real DC this defense could be very very good.

[akhhorus]

I have no idea what you are talking about? Zorn calls 3rd down plays, end of story, he doesn't set them up, he calls them.

The only report I've seen is that Zorn sets up the 3rd down calls during the week. Nothing more.

I just explained to you how zorn is calling a good deal of the plays. We know he calls all the 3rd down plays and we know for a fact that he has improved significantly. This is one of those discussions that would be more fruitful if you acknowledge other people's points of view and facts even if they don't support your point of view.


No, we don't know he makes the 3rd down calls. We know he sets the calls during the week, but thats different than what you want it to be. Lewis still makes the calls and he's not bound to stick to Zorn's set up. This is one of those discussions that would be more fruitful if you weren't pushing your usual agendas and actually understood the difference between "setting up what plays to consider using during the week" and "making the calls during the game." You haven't shown any proof that Zorn is making the 3rd down calls during the game.

I pointed out many factors here. The change of running back, the offensive line changes, sherman smith calling running plays, etc. Clearly sherman lewis isn't the only thing that changed so why do you totally disregard these other factors?


The change of running back and Sherman Smith calling running plays has nothing to do with the stark difference in the passing game.

1)So, i agree they both make some calls on these situations, whats your point? Your choices are simple, you can either giving them both credit or neither.

Lewis still makes the vast majority of calls. Zorn doesn't. Zorn can overrule Lewis, but based on comments from Zorn, he's not doing that a lot.

2)Those comments make no sense

Only because you think that Zorn putting in the calls during the week means that he's making the calls during the game. He's not.

3)I respectfully disagree, there has clearly been an improvement in the game planning. We have gotten a ton of players involved in different ways then I have seen before, this isn't simply play calling.

Getting those players involved has more to do with playcalling than with personnel decisions. The skins run almost a totally different offense from pre-Bingo to post-Bingo. It might be Zorn's playbook, but Lewis is running plays that Zorn never considered and the results speak for themselves.

Of course, I said he was most responsible for changing the tempo. His only responsibility is calling plays, so what do you think i meant?

I honestly don't know what your point is anymore. You seem confused about a lot of things, especially about who's actually making the calls.

It isn't a theory. I showed you the stats, those are the facts.

I didn't question those stats, so this is a straw man.

The question is how much of this is zorn and how much is lewis. You can either make stupid comments like this or you can look at the facts and we can discuss what they mean.


My comment which you're trying to duck any discussion of is relevant to your point. You want to credit Zorn for some(if not most) of the turnaround. So, this theory of yours requires an assumption that Zorn suddenly changed thanks to Lewis. I don't believe that for a second.

Zorn makes the calls man, what are you talking about "the week before"???


No he doesn't. Zorn puts in the 3rd down calls during the week, not during the game. Lewis makes those calls during the game.

I have no idea where you got the notion that zorn sets up 3rd down calls the week before but doesn't make them. It is a cluster @#$ i agree.

From Chris Cooley. He gave an interview where he said that. I posted that and I think you commented in that thread.

You should try reading my posts. Like I said i think the improvement is a result of a combination of things.

You do? It sounds like you want Zorn to get the credit.

I posted this to explore the question of how much of the improvement rests on lewis' shoulders, not to argue with you. Based on your posts, you obviously think lewis is the sole force responsible for the improvement.

If they hired Bozo the clown to call the plays, even just the passing plays, and the passing offense looks different, I would credit Bozo for the change in the passing game.

Yet the stats i dug up clearly point to zorn deserving a good deal of that credit. I don't know how you can disregard them.

There's no stats you've posted in this thread that would give any evidence that Zorn is responsible or not for the turnaround. You've posted about how the 3rd down percentage has changed, but that doesn't say what you want it to.

As to the reason that caused the change, who knows. Maybe it just started coming together. Maybe the zorn being stripped of play calling duties spurred a major change in his thinking and resulted in the improvement.

And it still would fall on the actual playcaller: Sherman Lewis.

[dogfight6]

O-B
D-C-
ST-D
C+FO-Z-