Gray doesn't deny interviewing for Zorn's job

[hogs86]

Wow I am lost for words.

Gray doesn't deny interviewing for Zorn's job

Posted by Mike Florio on December 23, 2009 10:08 PM ET
On Wednesday, reporters asked Redskins secondary coach Jerry Gray whether he interviewed for the team's head-coaching position, which currently is filled.

According to Jason Reid of the Washington Post, Gray initially said that he hadn't, but when pressed by one of the reporters Gray didn't deny it.

Later, the team's public relation staff informed reporters that Gray's initial "no" regarding whether he interviewed actually should have been "no comment."

League observers suspect that the Redskins have pre-complied with the Rooney Rule by interviewing Gray and/or defensive coordinator Greg Blache for the head-coaching job. Though NFL spokesman Greg Aiello recently told us that the Rooney Rule as applied to coaches presumes the existence of a vacancy, Jay Glazer of FOX suggested on Sunday that the interviews of minority candidates are being done to clear a path for the hiring of Mike Shanahan promptly upon the termination of Zorn

Link http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/23/gray-doesnt-deny-interviewing-for-zorns-job/

[tuckahoeskin]

No respect for Zorn. Gray comes across as a smart guy. You wouldn't expect him to do this unless he made the calculation that Zorn was in over his head and needed to be replaced. We'll never really know, though. Hopefully we'll soon be distracted by the hiring of a great coaching staff.

[Farmer Ted]

We're gonna totally dominate this off-season, like never before. I predict we go 19-0 between january and may.

[Skaggsrules]

We're gonna totally dominate this off-season, like never before. I predict we go 19-0 between january and may.

Nah, we lose some games around late April with the draft

[BurgundyNGold]

Nah, we lose some games around late April with the draft
Yeah, but we won't know that until we lost those April games until November lol.

[shally]

what was in it for Gray ? it makes him look like he is complicit in deliberately
undermining the intent of the Rooney Rule .. for what purpose ? it isnt like he gets a game or two as acting head coach to put on his resume.

and how does this not bring further contempt for the franchise ?

better to have simply fired Zorn and be done with it. after all, it was Vinny who promised him the full season, and he aint here no more...

[RedskinsDave]

Blame the Rooney Rule, not the teams.

[Keino]

Blame the Rooney Rule, not the teams.

I see, so when any entity acts to circumvent the rules of its industry, it is not the fault of the entity doing the circumventing but rather the rule. Makes sense.(Not at all)

[shane88]

Blame the Rooney Rule, not the teams.

Respectfully disagree. I completely blame the team for circumventing what the rule is intended for. I also lay blame to those that are allowing themselves to be interviewed under knowingly false pretenses. If Gray and/or Blache took the interviews just so the FO was complying with the rule, then they are part of the problem as well. The NFL needs to STOP this kind of crap, I don't care what team it is, it's WRONG!

[RedskinsDave]

They aren't circumventing the rules, they are abiding by them. They shouldn't even have to interview someone else if they already know who they want to hire. It's a sideshow to make a black coach interview because of a stupid rule and not because he has a shot at the job. Like I said before, the rule in theory is good. In practice, it's a mockery.

[Axegrinder]

Once again the team put the cart in front of the horse. Why interview if there isn't a current opening? I feel this is an inappropriate move by Snyder and shouldn't count towards fulfilling the Rooney Rule.

Also, Gray should have waited. There is a right way to do things and this wasn't it. So what if it cost him an opportunity to coach the Redskins. Is that such a bad thing? Working here has been a reputation killer.

I wouldn't want that guy working on my staff if I was a Head Coach. You can't trust a guy like that. In the long run, he may have done more damage to his career than good. Time will tell.

[hail2skins]

I wonder what he was promised for doing the interview if it was indeed done.

[JasonCampbell]

This is another move by Snyder that just doesn't make working for the guy very attractive. He won't fire you, but interview coaches for a position that isn't open. I'm still going to be surprised if Shanny comes here.

Oh yeah, and if you're a minority, then he'll give you a token interview.

[Keino]

It only becomes a mockery when teams make it a mockery. The rule is a good one and has led directly to at least 2 Minority coaching hires, probably more. The fact is the rule addresses a long-standing problem for the NFL. It makes its money on the backs of players of which the vast majority are minorities, but then closes access to the upper levels of the industry. If it means that teams cannot hire who they want without first interviewing a minority candidate (which helps the candidate by getting his name out there for consideration) then so be it. If minorities weren't being shut out of coaching and upper management opportunities, there would never have been a need for Mr. Rooney to propose this rule.

[firehawk157]

Is this a practice anywhere else in the workforce (is Lockheed Martin required to interview a minority for CEO)? Is there a Rooney Rule for position coaches / coordinators? If not then why not? It seems to me that most head coaches come from those ranks so are we cutting minorities legs out from under them? Should the NFL be required to entertain minority bids for ownership when an NFL team goes on sale?

I understand people want to the NFL to come down on the Skins for this, but how do we draw the line here? You interviewed him but we THINK you really had Shannahan on the mind the entire time so you didn't REALLY comply so forget about your second rounder... It seems like that is WAY too harsh.

I guess my bottom line is before we skewer Snyder over this (he did comply), we should definitely firm up the rule a bit more. I also don't think that Dan Snyder is a racist (as evidenced by his inexplicable love for Greg Blanche) so I don't think he did this to be mean to black people or anything. He already had his sights set. I think, no matter who he interviewed, it would have been seen as a sham.

[shane88]

I'm not just pointing fingers at Snyder, but at ANY/All the teams. If the interviews aren't being done in good faith, but just to "comply" with the rule, then that's just wrong. Maybe that's just a personal "morals" thing I have...

I will add a twist that occurred to me as well; suppose the Gray/Blache interviews actually took place during the time that Zorn was de-nutted??? Snyder interviewd those 2 and then started his courtship with Shanahan,et al.??

Just a shame that in this day and age we still need rules like this....

[firehawk157]

I'm not just pointing fingers at Snyder, but at ANY/All the teams. If the interviews aren't being done in good faith, but just to "comply" with the rule, then that's just wrong. Maybe that's just a personal "morals" thing I have...

I will add a twist that occurred to me as well; suppose the Gray/Blache interviews actually took place during the time that Zorn was de-nutted??? Snyder interviewd those 2 and then started his courtship with Shanahan,et al.??

Just a shame that in this day and age we still need rules like this....
I would counter that if you already had somebody you are pretty sure you are going to hire, isn't any other interview a sham? How can you make it not a sham in that case.

When I go out and buy a car, there's usually one I absolutely love and I'm pretty sure, barring the transmission dropping out of it, I'm going to buy. I may get in a couple other cars, but I'm really just driving them so I can say I looked at other cars. It's not that I'm trying to be mean or anything, but there's nothing I can do to convince myself otherwise (unless the other car drives like a Ferrari and Bentley's beautiful lovechild). This seems a bit like that. No matter what Snyder does or who Snyder interviews, it's going to be a sham. It's nothing against black candidates or the Rooney Rule.

[saviour]

I really cant blame Gray for interviewing for this Zorns job if it was handled correctly between the coaches. I have seen the kind of undermining tactics on numerous occassions from working in the financial sector of corporate america many years.

I can see a situation in which Synder or one of his subordinates approached Gray and asked him to interview for the position. But I can also see Gray approaching Zorn making him aware of the situation and Zorn telling him to just do it as he probably does not care at this point. I just do not get the sense that the coaches do not get along well enough to watch each others back.

I would be totally surprised to find out that Zorn had zero knowledge of this before it happened. Now that is not saying that Synder informed Zorn of the decision to interview one of his coaches, but I can defintely see Gray informing Zorn of Synders motives.

Zorn appears to be the type of guy that if Gray approached him and informed him of what was occurruing Zorn would say "Jerry, if they want to give you that opportunity then go for it. Do not sacrifice your career for the sake of saving my lame duck coaching status as I am gone at the end of the season and we all know this. Hey, you never know they may just hire you." (I can also see both of them laughing uncontrollably after the last statement)

I think they both know what Synder was doing with the Rooney rule becuase everyone in the country can see what they were doing. And I also think they both know that Gray had a snowballs chance in hell in landing the job. But at this point why not just play along and give Synder what he wants. I doesnt benefit either one of them to not just play this thing out til the end of the season as they are probably both gone at the end of the season anyway. Just give the owner what he wants and move on and try to continue your career with another organization that is run with more class.

[shally]

I would counter that if you already had somebody you are pretty sure you are going to hire, isn't any other interview a sham? How can you make it not a sham in that case.

When I go out and buy a car, there's usually one I absolutely love and I'm pretty sure, barring the transmission dropping out of it, I'm going to buy. I may get in a couple other cars, but I'm really just driving them so I can say I looked at other cars. It's not that I'm trying to be mean or anything, but there's nothing I can do to convince myself otherwise (unless the other car drives like a Ferrari and Bentley's beautiful lovechild). This seems a bit like that. No matter what Snyder does or who Snyder interviews, it's going to be a sham. It's nothing against black candidates or the Rooney Rule.

happened with Detroit when they hired Mooch.. no one else was in consideration at all

[shally]

I wonder what he was promised for doing the interview if it was indeed done.

BINGO !!

there was some quid pro quo, i have to believe.. either money changed/will change hands.. or, as in the case with Byner, maybe the front office twists arms to find Gray a position with another team after this year ?
or maybe Shanahan felt okay with Gray remaining in some capacity?

or maybe Gray will be the CEO of the "new" 6 flags over buffalo franchise ?

one way or the other, Snyder was in a position to do something in return for Gray allowing the process to go forward in an expedited fashion.. i have to believe that it is Snyder's fear that Jerry Jones, or Chicago, or someone else is lurking to snatch up his new head coach in waiting. it also tells me that, the deal is in play, but not done at this point and it could still fall apart. Also, that it is one guy that Snyder has in mind, and not a short list of guys.. it simply HAS to be Shanahan, with a 1 % chance of it being Gruden

i guess Snyder is willing to risk sanctions to get his man

[RedskinsDave]

I would counter that if you already had somebody you are pretty sure you are going to hire, isn't any other interview a sham? How can you make it not a sham in that case.

When I go out and buy a car, there's usually one I absolutely love and I'm pretty sure, barring the transmission dropping out of it, I'm going to buy. I may get in a couple other cars, but I'm really just driving them so I can say I looked at other cars. It's not that I'm trying to be mean or anything, but there's nothing I can do to convince myself otherwise (unless the other car drives like a Ferrari and Bentley's beautiful lovechild). This seems a bit like that. No matter what Snyder does or who Snyder interviews, it's going to be a sham. It's nothing against black candidates or the Rooney Rule.

Exactly. By interviewing guys on the staff, I think Snyder is actually doing outside "candidates" a favor by not making them go through an insincere dog-and-pony show.

[wewantdallas]

Rooney Rule debates aside, Gray should be the head coach NOW, for these last two games, ala Robiskie. The fact that Zorn is still there at all is the true mockery. The team doesn't have any competitive chance at all right now. At least Gray would be trying hard to show what he can do for two games as a resume builder, maybe reignite a little passion. It absolutely boggles my mind that Zorn is still coaching this team at this point. It just seems cruel and unusual punishment for all involved, especially the fans.

[Fathead]

Zorn should held on the Mall for public display and have rotten food thrown at him.

[NamVet4]

All of this is Daniel Snyder's ego clawing away and eating at what little common sense he may have possessed. The abuse of the Rooney Rule, whether you agree with the theory and practice, is par for the course for Snyder who desperately wants to prove to the NFL sports world that HE does know best! That is why I can muster very little hope that the Redskins will change with the addition of Bruce Allen.

[shally]

All of this is Daniel Snyder's ego clawing away and eating at what little common sense he may have possessed. The abuse of the Rooney Rule, whether you agree with the theory and practice, is par for the course for Snyder who desperately wants to prove to the NFL sports world that HE does know best! That is why I can muster very little hope that the Redskins will change with the addition of Bruce Allen.

respectfully, i disagree.. i think the hiring of Allen clearly should have been subject to the Rooney rules

on the other hand, i think that if an owner want ONE coach and only one coach, why should he be forced to go through the charade of meaningless interviews with guys he has NO intention of hiring ?

and, when Indy announced that Campbell was to follow Dungy, they werent forced to interview anyone else, i believe, because Campbell IS a minority coach. but, if the goal is to give minority candidates the experience of interviewing for positions, Indy should have been forced to provide that experience for coaches..

people can say that Pittsburgh was all set to hire Grimm until Tomlin blew them away with his interview, but whether or not that was true, i just think that it happens so rarely that why create a sham situation ?

the greatest force is the bottom line. a team that hires a poor coach (REDSKINS !!) is going to pay for it.. hire the best guy, regardless of his skin color.. we should be long past that kind of foolishness.. if i am an owner, i want the best guy i can get.

[Red Bear]

according to greg aiello even if we did interview blache or gray, it wont comply with the rooney rule. aiello has also said that the rooney rule for gm's isnt as strict as it is for head coaches, which is why we were able to interview gm candidates and satisfy the rule while vinny was still in his position. maybe we interviewed them for interim head coach and snyder possibly considered firing zorn when vinny resigned. i think blache is going to and should retire. it would have been prudent to fire zorn install gray as interim HC and then after he season give him a legit interview and a few others from outside the organization. with all the shanny to redskins talk, im still not 100% convinced it is going to happen. if shanny is named coach in less than 2 weeks after zorn is fired, then this is perhaps another rushed move with the redskins not taking due diligence to identify other possible candidates. and if what aiello says is correct, then youre not going to see shannahan walk in here the day after zorn is fired either, which it seems people are implying will happen. and if what aiello says is correct then we have not made a mockery of the rooney rule

[joethefan]

Grey had to been given some hush money for it. It's sad, but seeing he could be unemployed soon. The man has got to feed his family. Although I do agree with Keino's thoughts as well. The Skins are using the rule only to satisfy what the league requires. The sad part is that no one is there to police the misuse of the rule.

[Keino]

Is this a practice anywhere else in the workforce (is Lockheed Martin required to interview a minority for CEO)? Is there a Rooney Rule for position coaches / coordinators? If not then why not? It seems to me that most head coaches come from those ranks so are we cutting minorities legs out from under them? Should the NFL be required to entertain minority bids for ownership when an NFL team goes on sale?


The difference is that Lockheed Martin doesn't derive the vast majority of its profits on the backs of minority employees. It is the players who are the reason the NFL is successful. It is many of those same players who retire and go into coaching and then are subsequently denied (historically speaking, this has changed in part because of progressive rules like Mr. Rooney's) the opportunity to advance into the management side of the industry (coaching and administration). These are qualified men by the way, not just mandates for inclusion absent the necessary qualifications. Furthermore, historically, and prior to the Rooney rule, Minority Assistant coaches toiled in the land of Asst. Coach and possibly coordinator for more than twice the time that their white counter-parts spent toiling in those same positions.

The Rooney rule is about access, and it is access in two directions. It gives ownership access to qualified minority candidates that they would otherwise not have. Let's face it, the historical exclusion became systemic as owners would interview those they knew about based on recommendations from their executives and these recommendations would be based on a previous relationship. The other access given is the obvious. It gives the minority candidate access to the process and in so doing, paves the way for that qualified minority coach to reap the rewards of having his name out there as a potential candidate.

Finally, the NFL and sports in general are not like any other industry. You're never going to have an even comparison between them. So of course Lockheed Martin doesn't do this, but to be qualified to be CEO of Lockheed Martin, there needs to be a special skill-set that very few people have.

[TrueOracle]

The difference is that Lockheed Martin doesn't derive the vast majority of its profits on the backs of minority employees. It is the players who are the reason the NFL is successful. It is many of those same players who retire and go into coaching and then are subsequently denied (historically speaking, this has changed in part because of progressive rules like Mr. Rooney's) the opportunity to advance into the management side of the industry (coaching and administration). These are qualified men by the way, not just mandates for inclusion absent the necessary qualifications. Furthermore, historically, and prior to the Rooney rule, Minority Assistant coaches toiled in the land of Asst. Coach and possibly coordinator for more than twice the time that their white counter-parts spent toiling in those same positions.

The Rooney rule is about access, and it is access in two directions. It gives ownership access to qualified minority candidates that they would otherwise not have. Let's face it, the historical exclusion became systemic as owners would interview those they knew about based on recommendations from their executives and these recommendations would be based on a previous relationship. The other access given is the obvious. It gives the minority candidate access to the process and in so doing, paves the way for that qualified minority coach to reap the rewards of having his name out there as a potential candidate.

Finally, the NFL and sports in general are not like any other industry. You're never going to have an even comparison between them. So of course Lockheed Martin doesn't do this, but to be qualified to be CEO of Lockheed Martin, there needs to be a special skill-set that very few people have.

Keino, great job of answering a "question" from Firehawk (not sure if it was though). What amazes me most is in many discussions about devices like the Rooney Rule or any sort of perceived preference rule is this pseudo-intelligent questioning of its legitimacy when conditions that warrant the rules creation are not.

Historical improprieties, whose origin was both institutional and intentionally divisive, continue to persist inadvertently because the beneficiaries are subject to the "rules." Case and point - many institutions of higher learning give legacy points to applicants if they had an immediate family member who is/was an alum. On the surface this seems fine. But when you look at how many Ivy League institutions had very preferential treatments for one group and none for others, and the alums of the preferred group get their legacy points associated with applicants of their lineage - is this wrong? Many times these beneficiaries, having graduated and placed on some "fast track," end up in positions like CEO of Lockheed Martin but is it wrong for them to be have the position? [wrong forum]

The reason you have a Rooney Rule is simply to provide access to OTHER qualified candidates that weren't part of a club that historically disallowed their membership. Furthermore, it benefits an organization by making them more competitive (see the Steelers and their Superbowl ring).

The beautiful thing about competition and capitalism is its copy-cat nature and willingness to adapt. The success of Jackie Robinson, Mike Tomlin, Doug Williams, Caldwell (of the Colts) and others continues to enable access for OTHERS in the club. But, RULES helped provide that initial access.

Snyder just exhibits far less class on many more opportunities than he's ever shown otherwise (Sean Taylor's death). He simply made another mistake in a long line of many - the least of which is his treatment of Gray and the Rooney rule.

[RedskinsDave]

For the umpteenth time, the rule is good in theory but not in practice. If I know the guy I want to hire (who happens to be in the top ten of all-time NLF head coaches in winning percentage) then bringing in a black candidate and having him interview for a job he has zero chance of getting makes no sense. If this were a practice an individual team had where they always brought in black candidates so they could keep hiring others but used the interviews to cover up any appearance of racism, people would lose their minds. This is the NFL forcing them to do just that.

The rule should maybe have a panel of people who can help in cases like this one so the team isn't forced to put on a show.

[smoak]

Blame the Rooney Rule, not the teams.

Everyone knows I loves to disagree with Dave :D, but he is right. I respect what the Rooney Rule tries t accomplish, but it fails pure and simple. The Redskins have complied with the rule and its done. The rule should be abolished, and a panel of owners, coaches, and maybe players (as long as they aren't from Florida State) should serve on a council to review hirings (at all levels), and a team should have to present their "case" for why they chose to hire person X or Y. I always use the example, if a GM has worked with a head coach in the past and knows that is "his guy", then it is a mockery to interview candidates just for the sake of fulfilling the rule. Unless you take the position that just interviewing has benefit (I see that argument, but don't agree)...

I've been on both sides of forced interviews (knew I had the job already and later found out it was for show), and both situations annoyed the hell out of me. Hire the right person regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual preference, etc., and if someone doesn't like it, tell them to go insert a Limp Bizkit greatest hits CD into their rear end.

[tuckahoeskin]

Everyone knows I loves to disagree with Dave :D, but he is right. I respect what the Rooney Rule tries t accomplish, but it fails pure and simple. The Redskins have complied with the rule and its done. The rule should be abolished, and a panel of owners, coaches, and maybe players (as long as they aren't from Florida State) should serve on a council to review hirings (at all levels), and a team should have to present their "case" for why they chose to hire person X or Y. I always use the example, if a GM has worked with a head coach in the past and knows that is "his guy", then it is a mockery to interview candidates just for the sake of fulfilling the rule. Unless you take the position that just interviewing has benefit (I see that argument, but don't agree)...

I've been on both sides of forced interviews (knew I had the job already and later found out it was for show), and both situations annoyed the hell out of me. Hire the right person regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual preference, etc., and if someone doesn't like it, tell them to go insert a Limp Bizkit greatest hits CD into their rear end.

The panel method suggested sounds an awful lot like centralized command/control found in Communism. Yuk.

Agree with you on the second part, though. These forced interviews are shams. It is ridiculous to make coaches and teams to go through the motions to satisfy the rule. Hire the right person for your team, regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual preference... The league should reflect the make-up of the teams in one improtant way -- as a meritocracy. Players should start based on the merit of their play. Coaches should be hired or promoted in the same manner. Actually, all of society would be better off if hiring were handled that way.

[RedskinsDave]

The panel method suggested sounds an awful lot like centralized command/control found in Communism. Yuk.

Hyperbole much?

[smoak]

The panel method suggested sounds an awful lot like centralized command/control found in Communism. Yuk.

Agree with you on the second part, though. These forced interviews are shams. It is ridiculous to make coaches and teams to go through the motions to satisfy the rule. Hire the right person for your team, regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual preference... The league should reflect the make-up of the teams in one improtant way -- as a meritocracy. Players should start based on the merit of their play. Coaches should be hired or promoted in the same manner. Actually, all of society would be better off if hiring were handled that way.

Well I don't claim to be smart enough to fix it, but anyone can see its broken. It was just a suggestion that felt more like judicial review to me but hey.

Where is your solution?

[tuckahoeskin]

Well I don't claim to be smart enough to fix it, but anyone can see its broken. It was just a suggestion that felt more like judicial review to me but hey.

Where is your solution?

I don't feel compelled to order a solution. Good teams will find good coaches regardless of their race or any other descriptors. If teams want to limit their search to coaches who fit a certain look, that's their choice. They'll be limiting their opportunities to find the best candidate they can, but that's their mistake. I don't believe there is ever a good way to mandate hiring by race or gender.

[smoak]

I don't feel compelled to order a solution. Good teams will find good coaches regardless of their race or any other descriptors. If teams want to limit their search to coaches who fit a certain look, that's their choice. They'll be limiting their opportunities to find the best candidate they can, but that's their mistake. I don't believe there is ever a good way to mandate hiring by race or gender.

I don't know the numbers now, butthe NFL needed to implment SOME solution b/c the % of black coaches was a a joke...

[firehawk157]

The difference is that Lockheed Martin doesn't derive the vast majority of its profits on the backs of minority employees. It is the players who are the reason the NFL is successful. It is many of those same players who retire and go into coaching and then are subsequently denied (historically speaking, this has changed in part because of progressive rules like Mr. Rooney's) the opportunity to advance into the management side of the industry (coaching and administration). These are qualified men by the way, not just mandates for inclusion absent the necessary qualifications. Furthermore, historically, and prior to the Rooney rule, Minority Assistant coaches toiled in the land of Asst. Coach and possibly coordinator for more than twice the time that their white counter-parts spent toiling in those same positions.

The Rooney rule is about access, and it is access in two directions. It gives ownership access to qualified minority candidates that they would otherwise not have. Let's face it, the historical exclusion became systemic as owners would interview those they knew about based on recommendations from their executives and these recommendations would be based on a previous relationship. The other access given is the obvious. It gives the minority candidate access to the process and in so doing, paves the way for that qualified minority coach to reap the rewards of having his name out there as a potential candidate.

Finally, the NFL and sports in general are not like any other industry. You're never going to have an even comparison between them. So of course Lockheed Martin doesn't do this, but to be qualified to be CEO of Lockheed Martin, there needs to be a special skill-set that very few people have.

I understand the purpose behind the rule, but my point is, I think Snyder is in a lose-lose situation in regards to this. Every interview he conducts (unless it's with another HUGE name) will be considered a sham, minority or not.

I have a further problem with the way the rule is built. Pragmatist says that the intent isn't important because it IS now a rule, but I think the owners (for the most part) thought, "we're getting some heat for there not being enough minority HCs and execs, so let's make a rule about it". The reason I think this is, as it stands, the rule is set up to SHOW people how fair owners/execs are being to minorities moreso than to actually be fair. Interview a minority, show everybody you did it by publishing his name (I don't think merely having an interview to fulfill a rule helps anybody considerably) and everybody feels better for it.

In case I'm not giving my point clear enough, take for example 2 types of execs.

Exec 1 is honestly not even close to a racist. He is going to interview everybody he thinks is going to be good for the job and since he's been in contact with a number of minority coordinators and assistants, there's a strong possibility (when combined with their unit's productivity) he's going to at least talk to one of his former colleagues. The Rooney Rule is as useless to him as the law against cannibalism is to the average American (most people won't actually eat somebody even if it wasn't against the law, it's just not in our make-up), he's going to abide by it and not even give it a second thought.

Exec 2 may not be an overt racist but definitely has some aversion to minorities. He's going to interview a couple of candidates that he really likes (all are white) and, because of the Rooney Rule, give a sham interview. Nobody really profits since I don't think the candidate is going to get a considerable boost to their resume and given exec 2's inward aversion to minorities, he's not actually going to consider the candidate. The Rooney Rule is just another checkbox in this exec's mind, sort of like filing the paperwork with the NFL.

In either case, the Rooney Rule hasn't accomplished anything. I don't see a way to make it anymore enforceable either, you can't send somebody to spy on the interview and make a judgment call as to the real intent of it. That's my problem with it, it seems too much of a PR type rule than an actual attempt to bring more minorities into the upper structure.

Keino, great job of answering a "question" from Firehawk (not sure if it was though). What amazes me most is in many discussions about devices like the Rooney Rule or any sort of perceived preference rule is this pseudo-intelligent questioning of its legitimacy when conditions that warrant the rules creation are not.

What, is this holy ground that can't be questioned? I questioned many aspects, including why it isn't expanded to include assistants.

Historical improprieties, whose origin was both institutional and intentionally divisive, continue to persist inadvertently because the beneficiaries are subject to the "rules." Case and point - many institutions of higher learning give legacy points to applicants if they had an immediate family member who is/was an alum. On the surface this seems fine. But when you look at how many Ivy League institutions had very preferential treatments for one group and none for others, and the alums of the preferred group get their legacy points associated with applicants of their lineage - is this wrong? Many times these beneficiaries, having graduated and placed on some "fast track," end up in positions like CEO of Lockheed Martin but is it wrong for them to be have the position? [wrong forum]

This is pervasive throughout life. I'm going to hire a family member or friend before somebody else. I know them, I get along with them and it's less of a hassle than having to learn another person's idiosyncracies and adapt. Other people will hire a family member or friend before they will me. If Lockheed had a minority CEO (they might, I don't know) and their well-qualified brother or sister applied for a vacant VP position, they would likely get the job, regardless of other applicants. As long as the person is qualified for the job and didn't merely get it JUST because they are family (ie, became VP of finance after working at a school cafeteria), I don't have a huge problem with it.

The reason you have a Rooney Rule is simply to provide access to OTHER qualified candidates that weren't part of a club that historically disallowed their membership. Furthermore, it benefits an organization by making them more competitive (see the Steelers and their Superbowl ring).

I don't agree with the last sentence here. Mike Tomlin makes the Steelers competitive because he's a good head coach, not because he's black. Just like Peyton makes the Colts fearsome because he's a great QB, not because he's white. Therefore, it's not the Rooney Rule that makes the Steelers competitive, but their ability to hire the right guy for the right job.

The beautiful thing about competition and capitalism is its copy-cat nature and willingness to adapt. The success of Jackie Robinson, Mike Tomlin, Doug Williams, Caldwell (of the Colts) and others continues to enable access for OTHERS in the club. But, RULES helped provide that initial access.

Caldwell, of the Colts, was the heir apparent to Dungy. This seems like the same Ol' Boys club that you just railed against up there. It's okay in this particular instance because it helps a minority? I have no problem with only one guy getting the interview because he's obviously qualified, but you seem to be espouting two conflicting points here. One, you say that institutional restraints are keeping groups of people from successful positions and the other, it's okay for Caldwell to be the heir apparent and for only him to get the interview.

Snyder just exhibits far less class on many more opportunities than he's ever shown otherwise (Sean Taylor's death). He simply made another mistake in a long line of many - the least of which is his treatment of Gray and the Rooney rule.

I don't disagree with the first statement, but I think, no matter what he actually did or said to Jerry Gray, you would have said the second statement. He could have had an honest 3 hour interview with Gray and Allen. He and Allen could have talked about Gray as the HC and what the team would look like. We don't know. It probably was a sham but is there anything that could have been said that would indicate it wasn't to you?

[TrueOracle]

I understand the purpose behind the rule, but my point is, I think Snyder is in a lose-lose situation in regards to this. Every interview he conducts (unless it's with another HUGE name) will be considered a sham, minority or not.

I have a further problem with the way the rule is built. Pragmatist says that the intent isn't important because it IS now a rule, but I think the owners (for the most part) thought, "we're getting some heat for there not being enough minority HCs and execs, so let's make a rule about it". The reason I think this is, as it stands, the rule is set up to SHOW people how fair owners/execs are being to minorities moreso than to actually be fair. Interview a minority, show everybody you did it by publishing his name (I don't think merely having an interview to fulfill a rule helps anybody considerably) and everybody feels better for it.

In case I'm not giving my point clear enough, take for example 2 types of execs.

Exec 1 is honestly not even close to a racist. He is going to interview everybody he thinks is going to be good for the job and since he's been in contact with a number of minority coordinators and assistants, there's a strong possibility (when combined with their unit's productivity) he's going to at least talk to one of his former colleagues. The Rooney Rule is as useless to him as the law against cannibalism is to the average American (most people won't actually eat somebody even if it wasn't against the law, it's just not in our make-up), he's going to abide by it and not even give it a second thought.

Exec 2 may not be an overt racist but definitely has some aversion to minorities. He's going to interview a couple of candidates that he really likes (all are white) and, because of the Rooney Rule, give a sham interview. Nobody really profits since I don't think the candidate is going to get a considerable boost to their resume and given exec 2's inward aversion to minorities, he's not actually going to consider the candidate. The Rooney Rule is just another checkbox in this exec's mind, sort of like filing the paperwork with the NFL.

In either case, the Rooney Rule hasn't accomplished anything. I don't see a way to make it anymore enforceable either, you can't send somebody to spy on the interview and make a judgment call as to the real intent of it. That's my problem with it, it seems too much of a PR type rule than an actual attempt to bring more minorities into the upper structure.



What, is this holy ground that can't be questioned? I questioned many aspects, including why it isn't expanded to include assistants.



This is pervasive throughout life. I'm going to hire a family member or friend before somebody else. I know them, I get along with them and it's less of a hassle than having to learn another person's idiosyncracies and adapt. Other people will hire a family member or friend before they will me. If Lockheed had a minority CEO (they might, I don't know) and their well-qualified brother or sister applied for a vacant VP position, they would likely get the job, regardless of other applicants. As long as the person is qualified for the job and didn't merely get it JUST because they are family (ie, became VP of finance after working at a school cafeteria), I don't have a huge problem with it.



I don't agree with the last sentence here. Mike Tomlin makes the Steelers competitive because he's a good head coach, not because he's black. Just like Peyton makes the Colts fearsome because he's a great QB, not because he's white. Therefore, it's not the Rooney Rule that makes the Steelers competitive, but their ability to hire the right guy for the right job.



Caldwell, of the Colts, was the heir apparent to Dungy. This seems like the same Ol' Boys club that you just railed against up there. It's okay in this particular instance because it helps a minority? I have no problem with only one guy getting the interview because he's obviously qualified, but you seem to be espouting two conflicting points here. One, you say that institutional restraints are keeping groups of people from successful positions and the other, it's okay for Caldwell to be the heir apparent and for only him to get the interview.



I don't disagree with the first statement, but I think, no matter what he actually did or said to Jerry Gray, you would have said the second statement. He could have had an honest 3 hour interview with Gray and Allen. He and Allen could have talked about Gray as the HC and what the team would look like. We don't know. It probably was a sham but is there anything that could have been said that would indicate it wasn't to you?

Firehawk - you have some solid points. I believe I understand your core argument. However, I also believe we disagree on the precept of the Rooney Rule.

I think the spirit of the rule was rooted in providing owners with introductions to minority candidates that would otherwise go unnoticed for any number of reasons. So the owners sit down with qualified candidates for 3 hours and don't offer the job. That's the way things work sometimes. The rule wasn't intended to provide anyone with employment; just introductions.

That being said I don't think I need to respond to the Caldwell point. I hope you see my understanding.

[skin4ever]

according to greg aiello even if we did interview blache or gray, it wont comply with the rooney rule. aiello has also said that the rooney rule for gm's isnt as strict as it is for head coaches, which is why we were able to interview gm candidates and satisfy the rule while vinny was still in his position. maybe we interviewed them for interim head coach and snyder possibly considered firing zorn when vinny resigned. i think blache is going to and should retire. it would have been prudent to fire zorn install gray as interim HC and then after he season give him a legit interview and a few others from outside the organization. with all the shanny to redskins talk, im still not 100% convinced it is going to happen. if shanny is named coach in less than 2 weeks after zorn is fired, then this is perhaps another rushed move with the redskins not taking due diligence to identify other possible candidates. and if what aiello says is correct, then youre not going to see shannahan walk in here the day after zorn is fired either, which it seems people are implying will happen. and if what aiello says is correct then we have not made a mockery of the rooney rule

Apparently the rule was complied with. Unfortunately, Gray could have screwed himself according to PFT.com
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/gray-could-have-a-hard-time-finding-a-job-post-redskins/
The precedent set by this ruling will almost certainly force the NFL to re-evaluate the process of hiring coaches.

[hail2skins]

Apparently the rule was complied with. Unfortunately, Gray could have screwed himself according to PFT.com
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/gray-could-have-a-hard-time-finding-a-job-post-redskins/
The precedent set by this ruling will almost certainly force the NFL to re-evaluate the process of hiring coaches.
Florio tries to be the first at anything. He guesses a lot at what he thinks will happen. If it happens he can say I said it first.

Could this hurt Gray? Sure it could. Could Gray be announced the head coach?????

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Apparently the rule was complied with. Unfortunately, Gray could have screwed himself according to PFT.com
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/gray-could-have-a-hard-time-finding-a-job-post-redskins/
The precedent set by this ruling will almost certainly force the NFL to re-evaluate the process of hiring coaches.

PFT makes an interesting point about Gray, but I don't think they are necessarily correct. PFT was the first to report that the Redskins are not complying with the Rooney rule with Allen or the eventual hire of Shanahan. It turns out they were wrong, and they are pissed. PFT has posted more storeis (or nonstories if you will) about this subject than every other media outlet combined.

The truth is everyone outside of PFT stopped caring about this the moment the Fritz Pollard Alliance said Dan Snyder gets all A's for his compliance with the Rooney Rule (which quote by the way has yet to appear in a PFT article).

[skin4ever]

Florio tries to be the first at anything. He guesses a lot at what he thinks will happen. If it happens he can say I said it first.

Could this hurt Gray? Sure it could. Could Gray be announced the head coach?????

IMO, No he couldnt. If this was 2 seasons ago, maybe. But I think after the Zorn experiment, DS would not want to make the same mistake twice in a row. I do however believe he may have a good shot at becoming the DC and that the interview was a chance to kill 2 birds with one stone.(Comply with the Rooney Rule and find out whether Gray is ready to become the DC.) I blame Blache, as he is the head of defense, for the scheming of dbs 10 yds off. Hopefully, Gray would instill a more agressive defense as hes learned passive ones, here at least, fail.

[JasonCampbell]

IMO, No he couldnt. If this was 2 seasons ago, maybe. But I think after the Zorn experiment, DS would not want to make the same mistake twice in a row. I do however believe he may have a good shot at becoming the DC and that the interview was a chance to kill 2 birds with one stone.(Comply with the Rooney Rule and find out whether Gray is ready to become the DC.) I blame Blache, as he is the head of defense, for the scheming of dbs 10 yds off. Hopefully, Gray would instill a more agressive defense as hes learned passive ones, here at least, fail.

Does anyone think Shanny will keep any of the current coaches? I hope not.

[SkinsGuru]

It only becomes a mockery when teams make it a mockery. The rule is a good one and has led directly to at least 2 Minority coaching hires, probably more. The fact is the rule addresses a long-standing problem for the NFL. It makes its money on the backs of players of which the vast majority are minorities, but then closes access to the upper levels of the industry. If it means that teams cannot hire who they want without first interviewing a minority candidate (which helps the candidate by getting his name out there for consideration) then so be it. If minorities weren't being shut out of coaching and upper management opportunities, there would never have been a need for Mr. Rooney to propose this rule.

While I understand the intent of the Rooney rule and I believe the rule was made with good intentions, the rule doesn't really work for all situations. Take the Lions and the hiring of Steve Marriucci . . . the ONLY reason the Lions fired Mornhinweg is because Marriucci unexpectingly became available. The Lions weren't looking for a new coach, but when Marriucci became available, they fired Mornhinweg and to attempt to comply with the Rooney rule they tried to interview a bunch of minority coaches who all told them to shove it as they all new that the Lions wanted Marriucci . . . this kind of things happens all the time. If a team has their mind set on a particular player why should they be forced to make a mockery of the minority candidates by interviewing peoople who have absolutely no chance of being hired for the job they are interviewing for??? What good does it do???

IMO, the intent of the rule is good, but unless the searh is a general search for a coach or GM, the rule is worthless and makes a mockery of everyone involved.

[Keino]

That is not what happened in Detroit. Mornhinweg was getting fired regardless. When Mariucci was hired, the team had not interviewed one minority candidate for the position. As I indicated in later posts, the rule is not supposed to create jobs, but rather opportunities for access for both the owners to qualified minority candidates and the candidates themselves get access to the process.

So I stand by the comment that the rule is only a mockery when teams make a mockery of it. Detroit made a mockery of it by failing to conduct one interview. It is their own fault that they indicated that potential minority interviews would be mere tokens as opposed to actual interviews. Dan Snyder and Jerry Gray also made a mockery of the rule by conducting the interview prior to the position being open.

The rule itself is a good rule and corrects a long standing issue in the NFL.

[CNYSkinFan]

Apparently the rule was complied with. Unfortunately, Gray could have screwed himself according to PFT.com
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/gray-could-have-a-hard-time-finding-a-job-post-redskins/
The precedent set by this ruling will almost certainly force the NFL to re-evaluate the process of hiring coaches.

I remember when Snyder fired Turner he wanted Rhodes to coaach the team and Rhodes said no because he felt it would be a betrayal to Norv who hired him, so Robiskie took the job.

Gray may be the only coach kept ....but I have another theory. They never said when Grey interviewed for the spot, I wonde rif it was when they thought they could be replacing Zorn mid-stream?

[skin4ever]

I remember when Snyder fired Turner he wanted Rhodes to coaach the team and Rhodes said no because he felt it would be a betrayal to Norv who hired him, so Robiskie took the job.

Gray may be the only coach kept ....but I have another theory. They never said when Grey interviewed for the spot, I wonde rif it was when they thought they could be replacing Zorn mid-stream?

I would subscribe to that theory. Never thought about it, but that is very plausible. I too think that Gray may be the only coach kept. Its not like Shanahan has had any luck with defensive guys anyway, as long as Blache and his dline coach are gone.

[CNYSkinFan]

While I understand the intent of the Rooney rule and I believe the rule was made with good intentions, the rule doesn't really work for all situations. Take the Lions and the hiring of Steve Marriucci . . . the ONLY reason the Lions fired Mornhinweg is because Marriucci unexpectingly became available. The Lions weren't looking for a new coach, but when Marriucci became available, they fired Mornhinweg and to attempt to comply with the Rooney rule they tried to interview a bunch of minority coaches who all told them to shove it as they all new that the Lions wanted Marriucci . . . this kind of things happens all the time. If a team has their mind set on a particular player why should they be forced to make a mockery of the minority candidates by interviewing peoople who have absolutely no chance of being hired for the job they are interviewing for??? What good does it do???

IMO, the intent of the rule is good, but unless the searh is a general search for a coach or GM, the rule is worthless and makes a mockery of everyone involved.

I also remember several prominent black pundits and advocates being critical of the coaches who would NOT interview It is thought that Mike Tomline was the first beneficiary of the Rooney rule as he may not have been hired if not for that opportunity to interview. I think it is a good rule but I also think teams like the Redskins who supposedly have a replacement in mind should be allowed to apply for an exemption. If a team already knows who they want without really conducting extensive inteerview process, they should be allowed to apply for a waiver without going through sham interviews.

Lets be clear though, the problem in the NFL was never that there were no extensive interview processes were multiple people are brought in to interview for a HC or coordinator position. It is rare that a team does not conduct an interview and knows who they want to hire. However before the Rooney rule, black coaches were not even brought into the room, it just wasn't happening. Now we have a rule that says a minority must be interviewed in that process, i see no harm with that. And if an exception can be made for teams hiring a known quantity (like a mariucci or shanahan) where they dont need an interview process, then that would be an even better rule.

[SkinsGuru]

That is not what happened in Detroit. Mornhinweg was getting fired regardless. When Mariucci was hired, the team had not interviewed one minority candidate for the position. As I indicated in later posts, the rule is not supposed to create jobs, but rather opportunities for access for both the owners to qualified minority candidates and the candidates themselves get access to the process.

So I stand by the comment that the rule is only a mockery when teams make a mockery of it. Detroit made a mockery of it by failing to conduct one interview. It is their own fault that they indicated that potential minority interviews would be mere tokens as opposed to actual interviews. Dan Snyder and Jerry Gray also made a mockery of the rule by conducting the interview prior to the position being open.

The rule itself is a good rule and corrects a long standing issue in the NFL.

This was being talked about all over Sirius NFL Radio for the last couple of days . . . ALL of the hosts have been talking about the Detroit thing exactly as i explained it to you . . . thats where i got the info from . . .

are you trying to say that teams who have a specific person they are going to hire should be forced to interview people who have NO chance to get the job??? If so, please explain what good that would do . . . and how that would not simply degrade those getting interviewed . . .

[padraic]

Is it to crazy to think that Gray did have a shot at the job? I mean this is that same team that Hired Zorn as OC and then made him HC. I have never heard of that happening befor......I love to beat up on old Danny boy as much as the next guy but i cant on this one, i can see how it looks bad for Gray (undercutting Zorn) but this is about winning Football games not feelings.

[hail2skins]

I also remember several prominent black pundits and advocates being critical of the coaches who would NOT interview It is thought that Mike Tomline was the first beneficiary of the Rooney rule as he may not have been hired if not for that opportunity to interview. I think it is a good rule but I also think teams like the Redskins who supposedly have a replacement in mind should be allowed to apply for an exemption. If a team already knows who they want without really conducting extensive inteerview process, they should be allowed to apply for a waiver without going through sham interviews.

Lets be clear though, the problem in the NFL was never that there were no extensive interview processes were multiple people are brought in to interview for a HC or coordinator position. It is rare that a team does not conduct an interview and knows who they want to hire. However before the Rooney rule, black coaches were not even brought into the room, it just wasn't happening. Now we have a rule that says a minority must be interviewed in that process, i see no harm with that. And if an exception can be made for teams hiring a known quantity (like a mariucci or shanahan) where they dont need an interview process, then that would be an even better rule.In reference to Tomlin, Dungy put a bug in the owners ear and got him that interview as I heard it.

[hail2skins]

IMO, No he couldnt. If this was 2 seasons ago, maybe. But I think after the Zorn experiment, DS would not want to make the same mistake twice in a row. I do however believe he may have a good shot at becoming the DC and that the interview was a chance to kill 2 birds with one stone.(Comply with the Rooney Rule and find out whether Gray is ready to become the DC.) I blame Blache, as he is the head of defense, for the scheming of dbs 10 yds off. Hopefully, Gray would instill a more agressive defense as hes learned passive ones, here at least, fail.Dan can hire whoever he wants. The Zorn experiment has nothing to do with Gray. Gray has been a candidate for awhile now. His name has been out there. I'm with CNY on this one, this interview could have been conducted awhile ago and we're just hearing about it now. Never underestimate the Dan.

[Keino]

are you trying to say that teams who have a specific person they are going to hire should be forced to interview people who have NO chance to get the job??? If so, please explain what good that would do . . . and how that would not simply degrade those getting interviewed . . .

I am not going to repeat myself. Your question is clearly and directly addressed in posts above. To Summarize: The interviewee benefits by the exposure as does the team. That's the good in the rule. It create mutual beneficial exposure that may not necessarily have been there without the rule.

[SkinsGuru]

I am not going to repeat myself. Your question is clearly and directly addressed in posts above. To Summarize: The interviewee benefits by the exposure as does the team. That's the good in the rule. It create mutual beneficial exposure that may not necessarily have been there without the rule.

I agree that there needs to be something like the Rooney rule in place, but that it needs to be modified to keep teams that have a deffinate person in mind from HAVING to make a mokery of the system by interviewing poeple with absolutely no chance of getting the job.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

do you guys think that shanny or the next coach is gonna keep gray?
why would you keep a man who stabbed the head coach in the back?
the only 2 guys i think shanny may keep are buges and the s/t coach.

[BurgundyNGold]

do you guys think that shanny or the next coach is gonna keep gray?
why would you keep a man who stabbed the head coach in the back?
the only 2 guys i think shanny may keep are buges and the s/t coach.
Honestly, I hope Shanny can lure Alex Gibbs away from Kubiak in Houston. I think his contract is up this year too.

[skin4ever]

Dan can hire whoever he wants. The Zorn experiment has nothing to do with Gray. Gray has been a candidate for awhile now. His name has been out there. I'm with CNY on this one, this interview could have been conducted awhile ago and we're just hearing about it now. Never underestimate the Dan.

I agree he can do whatever he wants, but we are also talking about Big Splash Dan. He listens to us(willing to bet) and knows to get us back in the seats and purchasing merch he has to get a GM and hire a HC who is proven(If he stuck with the status quo i could see Gray as HC and Cerrato still calling the shots). IF Gray was hired, would we(as a collective fan base and his meal ticket) jump back in and say Hip Hip Horray, or would we wait and see what happens and continue to bash him for running the team into the ground? Dan is not an idiot, he knows he needs to fill the seats and get his money excited again. Gray just wouldnt do it. Gray is not a proven HC, and would be another position coach to HC experiement. Gray may have been interviewed for the interim basis(but not next season, how many interim HC's are HC's for the next season), but once shanahans name came up and there was alleged interest, Gray was done as HC. I still believe he may get a shot at DC and move up the pipeline toward HC one day, but not this season and not with Shanahan coming.

[skin4ever]

do you guys think that shanny or the next coach is gonna keep gray?
why would you keep a man who stabbed the head coach in the back?
the only 2 guys i think shanny may keep are buges and the s/t coach.

This could have all been discussed before. We dont know that Shanny didnt express interest in retaining Gray and they interviewed him to see what he was about. Its not like we called Allen out of the blue, IMO, this whole ordeal has been in the works since mid-season. We dont even know if Zorn did not know about it. Zorn and JC are of the same ilk, they wouldnt say boo about anything.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

but it's bound to make things even more tense in the lockerroom would'nt you think?

[IH Brave]

Honestly, I hope Shanny can lure Alex Gibbs away from Kubiak in Houston. I think his contract is up this year too.


I was wondering about Shanny bringing in Kubiak. How safe is his job in Houston?

[skin4ever]

but it's bound to make things even more tense in the lockerroom would'nt you think?

Maybe, but maybe not, they know that Zorn and Blache are dead men walking. And they know its about business. I also(from a practical standpoint) dont think that Gray would have interviewed behind Zorn's back if Gray was going to be canned, because of the backstabbing perception.

[Keino]

Honestly, I hope Shanny can lure Alex Gibbs away from Kubiak in Houston. I think his contract is up this year too.

From your fingers to God's eyes. That to me would be the ultimate benefit of having Shanny as coach......if he could lure Alex Gibbs here. There is no doubt that they make good "music" together.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i'll be glad when this cluster**** of a season is over!i have never been as frustrated with anything as much as i have this pro football season.good riddance to the whole damn thing.:devil2:

[Emmanouel8]

IMO based on what I've read regarding Jerry Gray, he's been undermining Zorn all season. I think it's pretty evident he's been Dan Snyder internal "spy" for a while now, otherwise he wouldn't have been picked to be the "clandestine" interview for the head coaching job or the media rep for the defense.

My hunch is he was also one of these unnamed sources leaking out rumors regarding the defense's ill-will toward the offense.

Honestly I don't think much of our defense despite it's ranking, furthermore I find it hilarious that the coach of the most glaring weakness of the defense, the secondary, has had any consideration for a promotion.

Quite frankly, under his watch we've seen the regression of Carlos Rogers and Landry. For weeks Deangelo Hall has also looked pedestrian and ill prepared. These are all high priced players under performing. Collectively the unit has been burned at clutch moments. I'm trying to figure out why he hasn't been scrutinized as much as Zorn and Blache.

IMHO Jerry Gray is a classic opportunist. He saw weakness in Zorn and spent more time trying to take advantage of the situation to better himself at the expense of the team. He has a better shot landing a head coaching job now then an assistant. Good Luck Jerry and Good riddance!

[shally]

From your fingers to God's eyes. That to me would be the ultimate benefit of having Shanny as coach......if he could lure Alex Gibbs here. There is no doubt that they make good "music" together.

we will have to dump virtually every offensive lineman we have except for maybe, Dockery and Rabach.. probably have to do that anyway, but for certain with that style of line play

[shally]

IMO based on what I've read regarding Jerry Gray, he's been undermining Zorn all season. I think it's pretty evident he's been Dan Snyder internal "spy" for a while now, otherwise he wouldn't have been picked to be the "clandestine" interview for the head coaching job or the media rep for the defense.

My hunch is he was also one of these unnamed sources leaking out rumors regarding the defense's ill-will toward the offense.

Honestly I don't think much of our defense despite it's ranking, furthermore I find it hilarious that the coach of the most glaring weakness of the defense, the secondary, has had any consideration for a promotion.

Quite frankly, under his watch we've seen the regression of Carlos Rogers and Landry. For weeks Deangelo Hall has also looked pedestrian and ill prepared. These are all high priced players under performing. Collectively the unit has been burned at clutch moments. I'm trying to figure out why he hasn't been scrutinized as much as Zorn and Blache.

IMHO Jerry Gray is a classic opportunist. He saw weakness in Zorn and spent more time trying to take advantage of the situation to better himself at the expense of the team. He has a better shot landing a head coaching job now then an assistant. Good Luck Jerry and Good riddance!

be careful with that thought.. it would not surprise me one bit if Gray was the one remaining coach retained-- perhaps even as DC, if Shanny cant get Zimmer

[Emmanouel8]

be careful with that thought.. it would not surprise me one bit if Gray was the one remaining coach retained-- perhaps even as DC, if Shanny cant get Zimmer

Very doubtful that Shanahan would retain a known Snyder snitch. Again, if Jerry had coached a decent secondary he may have had a chance.

Snitch + underachieving unit = the Shanahan boot

[shally]

Very doubtful that Shanahan would retain a known Snyder snitch. Again, if Jerry had coached a decent secondary he may have had a chance.

Snitch + underachieving unit = the Shanahan boot


something is afoot, however... Gray is going to be thrown something for taking one for Snyder with the interview process.. Either on some other team, or having a role under Shanahan

[tuckahoeskin]

something is afoot, however... Gray is going to be thrown something for taking one for Snyder with the interview process.. Either on some other team, or having a role under Shanahan

Does Snyder have connections at Texas Tech?

[shally]

Does Snyder have connections at Texas Tech?

i thought the Coordinator who has taken Leach's place has the inside track

besides, that situation is going to fester for some time now

[BurgundyNGold]

I was wondering about Shanny bringing in Kubiak. How safe is his job in Houston?
Probably 60/40 he stays in Houston for 2010.

[shally]

Probably 60/40 he stays in Houston for 2010.

especially, if they make the playoffs.. if they dont, nothing would surprise.
Kubiak was catching a LOT of heat earlier in the season

[BurgundyNGold]

especially, if they make the playoffs.. if they dont, nothing would surprise.
Kubiak was catching a LOT of heat earlier in the season
Yeah, but he's on the cusp of the playoffs after his 3rd season. That's pretty good considernig what he walked in to. I think his owner will give him another year but I wouldn't be surprised if he got canned either.

[shally]

Yeah, but he's on the cusp of the playoffs after his 3rd season. That's pretty good considernig what he walked in to. I think his owner will give him another year but I wouldn't be surprised if he got canned either.

"on the cusp" isnt going to sell very well in Houston this year-- especially since
Rex Ryan is on the cusp in his first year, and guys like Harbaugh and Smith DID make it in the first years as coach

i dont know that either Schaub or Kubiak survive another last minute disappointment

by the way, this is his 4th year he is finishing, and unless he wins tomorrow, the best record he has had is 8-8

[Emmanouel8]

something is afoot, however... Gray is going to be thrown something for taking one for Snyder with the interview process.. Either on some other team, or having a role under Shanahan

Yes, maybe he's already been given something or maybe he cooperated with Snyder in hopes of reciprocation. Who knows.

I'm sure Snyder will do what he can to get Gray in, no doubt but I also belive Shanahan knows exactly why and will have his foot straight down. Who knows maybe you're right.

[SkinsGuru]

I agree that there needs to be something like the Rooney rule in place, but that it needs to be modified to keep teams that have a deffinate person in mind from HAVING to make a mokery of the system by interviewing poeple with absolutely no chance of getting the job.

This is an article that talks about the problems with the Rooney rule and why it either needs to be modified (preferrably) or done away with . . .


Source: (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-01-11/nfl-should-dump-or-change-rooney-rule)

It serves only to engender hostility among folks of all races who believe that a rule based on the color of a person's skin hardly represents the best strategy for ensuring that decisions are based on something than the color of a person's skin. And if, in the end, the teams will hire whomever they choose to hire, the rule rarely makes a difference.

Besides, if the unstated goal in passing the rule was to provide the league with evidence of diversity if/when a claim is made that the hiring practices aren't, a good lawyer would be able to twist the NFL's witnesses into Turk's head knots based on the repeated examples of Rooney Rule shenanigans.

It would be nice to think that the NFL's teams have evolved beyond the mindset that resulted in so few minority head coaches and front-office executives. If they haven't, then they should be prepared to face the consequences imposed by external forces like public reaction, and private litigation.

Either way, adherence to the letter of the Rooney Rule without respect for its purposes creates far more problems than it ever will solve, and it makes a supposedly progressive and diverse business appear narrow and small-minded.

The NFL succeeds because it constantly searches for ways to improve. While the Rooney Rule might have been an improvement when passed, changing it or getting rid of it would be an improvement now.