Akh's Thoughts: Offseason tracks

[akhhorus]

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=773)

Guff on!

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i agree with a lot of what you say,but getting chris long from the rams is gonna cost more than andre carter.i thought that kitna signed a 2 year deal with dallas?

[akhhorus]

i agree with a lot of what you say,but getting chris long from the rams is gonna cost more than andre carter.i thought that kitna signed a 2 year deal with dallas?

He signed a 4 year deal but he looks like an ideal salary purge candidate. If he's still with Dallas, then that will change to Rex Grossman or Pennington as the caddy for Bradford.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i'd take pennington over grossman any day.what about the ram deal for chris long?we both know that's gonna cost more.
and i would never,ever,ever sign jason taylor to anything!i would go with sean merriman first!

[BurgundyNGold]

He signed a 4 year deal but he looks like an ideal salary purge candidate. If he's still with Dallas, then that will change to Rex Grossman or Pennington as the caddy for Bradford.
Pennington, yes. Grossman...

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2276/1253886001officeno.gif

[akhhorus]

i'd take pennington over grossman any day.what about the ram deal for chris long?we both know that's gonna cost more.


The Rams would love to dump the remaining 40ish million of his deal, especially if they were getting a 4-3 DE back in the deal.

and i would never,ever,ever sign jason taylor to anything!i would go with sean merriman first!

I wouldn't touch Merriman with a ten foot pole. He hasn't been the same since he entered the NFL drug testing program.

Pennington, yes. Grossman...

http://yfrog.com/1gofficenoreactiong

Kyle Shanahan and LaFleur had him in Houston, if they think he has some value as a tackling dummy, I have no problem with that.

[BurgundyNGold]

The Rams would love to dump the remaining 40ish million of his deal, especially if they were getting a 4-3 DE back in the deal.

I wouldn't touch Merriman with a ten foot pole. He hasn't been the same since he entered the NFL drug testing program.

Kyle Shanahan and LaFleur had him in Houston, if they think he has some value as a tackling dummy, I have no problem with that.
As a 3rd QB, maybe. But Grossman shouldn't see the field to fix divots or to put down yard stripes.

[akhhorus]

As a 3rd QB, maybe. But Grossman shouldn't see the field to fix divots or to put down yard stripes.

I dunno, he's Todd Collins with less suck. We could do much worse.

[shally]

some good thoughts

i disagree about Dockery going.. he is young, and somewhat mobile.
only if we sign/trade for 2 guards,is he gone

think about Neal, who is UFA but still productive

think about guys like Boothe and Whimper who are RFA's but whom the Giants dont have room to keep and will likely cut, eventually

Bushrod = Levi Jones.. he needs help against EVERY speed rusher he faces..at LT we need a guy who can hold the edge himself

think about Jamal Brown coming off of hernia surgery.. if the Saints want to move someone, that would be the guy i target

speaking of Levi Jones, any consideration of his is purely as a RT, if he is looking to play LT, forget it..

think of Darren Sharper if the Saints are slow to sign him.. move Landry to SS and let Sharper play FS.. or pair Sharper with Horton and move Landry for what we can get.

Rocky wont go anywhere because he is versatile

I dont think McKenzie has anything left

Chester Taylor just makes so much sense i cannot see the offseason without him

Ugoh ?? riding the bench in favor of a FA ? he is going to want huge money for dubious performance ?? by the way, did you see how stout the middle of the INDY O line was ? all the pressure came from the edges

Adelus Thomas has immense talent, but been allowed to leave 2 teams. i dont know if he can be counted on as far as form the neck up

Rogers will stay or go depending upon how much he expects.. would take Robinson over him in a heartbeat, but not sure if Dunta will be available

why does GB want Landry over Collins ? i dont see that at all

i dont think that the Rams will be that active, but where they get their QB from will determine what the course is of their off season.. and how much do they think that Suh is a player for the ages.. you think Spags lets them pass on Suh if he thinks he is THAT good ? then again, Long and Carrecker have certainly proved that there are NO sure things at DL

the Saints have something like 20 free agents and coming off a SB win, the demands will be over the top.. look for them to pare players and go as young as they can..a lot of their RFA's wont be tendered, i would guess

i believe they might just keep A Carter as the "designated" pass rusher using him like Chales Haley and NOT giving him pass coverage responsibilities.. in that sense, the defense is a "4/3" when he is in, but he gets moved around and dropped back into a 2 point stance some times..

Kitna ?? maybe.. Sage, if available might make more sense because he has some mobility.. still, i think Pennington might end up being the guy, even though he lacks mobility and is injury prone.. just a hunch

[BurgundyNGold]

I dunno, he's Todd Collins with less suck. We could do much worse.
That's not my criteria in a backup QB. :D

Grossman is a fat chick who smells of pork rinds that you take to prom because you were too busy Spicoli-ing it up in a van for 2 months and waited until the day-of to ask someone. In other words, it's something that Vinny would do lmao.

[shally]

I dunno, he's Todd Collins with less suck. We could do much worse.

Grossman DID get Chicago to a SuperBowl ?? i still dont see how it happened, but it did.. besides, he has the perfect personality for Shanahan

[akhhorus]

Okay, I can't possibly respond to everything in your post shally, but our disagreements


i disagree about Dockery going.. he is young, and somewhat mobile.
only if we sign/trade for 2 guards,is he gone

He's a bad fit for the Shanny offense and has a big deal. He's almost certainly gone.

Bushrod = Levi Jones.. he needs help against EVERY speed rusher he faces..at LT we need a guy who can hold the edge himself

think about Jamal Brown coming off of hernia surgery.. if the Saints want to move someone, that would be the guy i target


They're not going to give up Brown unless we give up the #4 pick, I'll take Bushrod, even if we move him to RT and draft someone like Fox or Brown to play LT.


Rocky wont go anywhere because he is versatile

I doubt it. He's going to want a long term commitment which I doubt the skins give to him.


Ugoh ?? riding the bench in favor of a FA ? he is going to want huge money for dubious performance ?? by the way, did you see how stout the middle of the INDY O line was ? all the pressure came from the edges


Ugoh won't get huge money, and his price will be cheap. I'd take him as a RT.

why does GB want Landry over Collins ? i dont see that at all

They can pay Landry 3 year, 17-21 million-ish or pay Collins market value(5/40 probably).

That's not my criteria in a backup QB. :D

Grossman is a fat chick who smells of pork rinds that you take to prom because you were too busy Spicoli-ing it up in a van for 2 months and waited until the day-of to ask someone. In other words, it's something that Vinny would do lmao.

Vinny would have dealt for Grossman the day before he became a free agent lol.

I would want Pennington, I'll settle for Kitna or Kerry Collins

[jaylen]

I like your track much better than the projected Shanny track thats for damn sure.

The thought of Kitna as a qb turns my stomach. Pennington I can handle for a short time possibly.

I still think we're headed for deep trouble taking Bradford that has mistake written all over it he's almost like pennington in a sense with a better arm same fragile looking frame not certain he has any of the leadership traits though similar accuracy.

Lots of turnover on either track which is possible.

[Fathead]

I agree with the lets sign a stop gap QB for a season or 2 idea, but Grossman is a Vinny move.

[shally]

Okay, I can't possibly respond to everything in your post shally, but our disagreements



He's a bad fit for the Shanny offense and has a big deal. He's almost certainly gone.



They're not going to give up Brown unless we give up the #4 pick, I'll take Bushrod, even if we move him to RT and draft someone like Fox or Brown to play LT.



I doubt it. He's going to want a long term commitment which I doubt the skins give to him.



Ugoh won't get huge money, and his price will be cheap. I'd take him as a RT.



They can pay Landry 3 year, 17-21 million-ish or pay Collins market value(5/40 probably).



Vinny would have dealt for Grossman the day before he became a free agent lol.

I would want Pennington, I'll settle for Kitna or Kerry Collins

i could easily live with Kerry Collins.. the only concern is if he is starting to break down physically

Collins at market value versus Landry for cheaper is still a no brainer..Collins can cover

if Ugoh is at bargain rate, he goes to the top of the list.. i dont htink he will go cheaply

the Saints have to decide which LT they keep because there isnt room for both Brown or Bushrod.. i would take Bushrod for RT, but he wont take that deal unless he is being paid like a left tackle, regardless of his performance

regardless of his contract, Dockery is the only player from the line worth keeping as a holdover. he is young and never misses a game.. as long as we only sign one guard, he will stay.. if we sign two, then obviously he is gone.
my guess is that he gets moved after this year in favor of Rinehart/EWilliams/ or whomever we draft or sign at the end of the draft.
finding a LEFT Guard is a whole lot easier than finding a Right Guard

Rocky has never done anything to deserve a long term deal.. he gets tendered for a year because no one else wants him long term. but he can play outside or inside, and plays the run decently

[RicFlairOne]

I like your track much better than the projected Shanny track thats for damn sure.

The thought of Kitna as a qb turns my stomach. Pennington I can handle for a short time possibly.

I still think we're headed for deep trouble taking Bradford that has mistake written all over it he's almost like pennington in a sense with a better arm same fragile looking frame not certain he has any of the leadership traits though similar accuracy.

Lots of turnover on either track which is possible.


Not that AKH needs taking up for, but his thought process probably is based on a clean bill of health from Dr. Andrews. If the Skins draft him, Shanny will build the line 1st and not 'throw him to the wolves' so to speak. I personally like Bradford's upside with Shanny grooming him for the future.

[BurgundyNGold]

I would want Pennington, I'll settle for Kitna or Kerry Collins
I agree with this assessment. If we end up with Grossman, my general impression would be because that was the only chair left when the music stopped. I don't get the impression that will happen with the current FO.

Good work on your article, BTW. Very well researched and a good target plan --even if not plausible in its entirely.

[akhhorus]

I agree with the lets sign a stop gap QB for a season or 2 idea, but Grossman is a Vinny move.

If the skins purge the roster, there aren't any QBs out there who will keep the 2010 season from being a 6 win season at best. I honestly don't care who they get as long as they can throw the ball forward lol. A vet who can teach Bradford would be best, but just as long as they can play functionally, thats fine with me.

Collins at market value versus Landry for cheaper is still a no brainer..Collins can cover


Yes, but Green Bay has a number of big contracts to pay out with the extensions to Grant, Jennings, Rogers, Bigby(who I think is as valuable as Collins was to them), etc. And they have to rebuild their Oline. I think that if we offered them that deal, they would take it in a second.

if Ugoh is at bargain rate, he goes to the top of the list.. i dont htink he will go cheaply


Eh..we'll see. I think Indy is going to purge a number of players.

the Saints have to decide which LT they keep because there isnt room for both Brown or Bushrod.. i would take Bushrod for RT, but he wont take that deal unless he is being paid like a left tackle, regardless of his performance


If we could get him to sign for under 6 mil a year, I'm fine with it.

regardless of his contract, Dockery is the only player from the line worth keeping as a holdover. he is young and never misses a game.. as long as we only sign one guard, he will stay.. if we sign two, then obviously he is gone.
my guess is that he gets moved after this year in favor of Rinehart/EWilliams/ or whomever we draft or sign at the end of the draft.
finding a LEFT Guard is a whole lot easier than finding a Right Guard


I think we're signing 3-4 guards and I don't know if any Olinemen from last season should stay.

Rocky has never done anything to deserve a long term deal.. he gets tendered for a year because no one else wants him long term. but he can play outside or inside, and plays the run decently

I disagree with that, teams that run a less aggressive 3-4(the Parcells 3-4) could use him. Denver is headed that way and DJ Williams(and Dumervil) is a free agent for them.

[shally]

Not that AKH needs taking up for, but his thought process probably is based on a clean bill of health from Dr. Andrews. If the Skins draft him, Shanny will build the line 1st and not 'throw him to the wolves' so to speak. I personally like Bradford's upside with Shanny grooming him for the future.

i can just about promise you that if Bradford is the pick, he wont see the field until the O line can protect Shanny's investment.. hence a guy like Kitna or K Collins..

[akhhorus]

Not that AKH needs taking up for, but his thought process probably is based on a clean bill of health from Dr. Andrews. If the Skins draft him, Shanny will build the line 1st and not 'throw him to the wolves' so to speak. I personally like Bradford's upside with Shanny grooming him for the future.

You would be correct with your comment. If Bradford's shoulder checks out: take him. Don't even wait for the commish to announce the #3 pick, have the card up there waiting.

I agree with this assessment. If we end up with Grossman, my general impression would be because that was the only chair left when the music stopped. I don't get the impression that will happen with the current FO.

I think its going to be Pennington or Kitna.

Good work on your article, BTW. Very well researched and a good target plan --even if not plausible in its entirely.

Thanks, but I think everything I speculate on is very plausible.

[shally]

If the skins purge the roster, there aren't any QBs out there who will keep the 2010 season from being a 6 win season at best. I honestly don't care who they get as long as they can throw the ball forward lol. A vet who can teach Bradford would be best, but just as long as they can play functionally, thats fine with me.



Yes, but Green Bay has a number of big contracts to pay out with the extensions to Grant, Jennings, Rogers, Bigby(who I think is as valuable as Collins was to them), etc. And they have to rebuild their Oline. I think that if we offered them that deal, they would take it in a second.



Eh..we'll see. I think Indy is going to purge a number of players.



If we could get him to sign for under 6 mil a year, I'm fine with it.



I think we're signing 3-4 guards and I don't know if any Olinemen from last season should stay.



I disagree with that, teams that run a less aggressive 3-4(the Parcells 3-4) could use him. Denver is headed that way and DJ Williams(and Dumervil) is a free agent for them.


McDaniel wants smart LB's as they always had in NE-- and Rocky aint exactly that..lol

agree about a cattle call for interior linemen this off season

[shally]

how about this.. who is the first free agent they sign on Mar 5 (or whatever date) ??



i think it is Hamilton (who is UFA as of now) or Stephen Neal

as long as Portis is in the picture it wont be C Taylor

[akhhorus]

how about this.. who is the first free agent they sign on Mar 5 (or whatever date) ??

i think it is Hamilton (who is UFA as of now) or Stephen Neal

as long as Portis is in the picture it wont be C Taylor

Kirk Morrison. Especially since it looks like the Raiders won't tender him.

[RicFlairOne]

i can just about promise you that if Bradford is the pick, he wont see the field until the O line can protect Shanny's investment.. hence a guy like Kitna or K Collins..

Exactly -- plus with all of the new lineman it will take several games for them to gel. I'll trust Shanny / Bruce with chosing the veteran QB of their choice to groom Bradford.

[BurgundyNGold]

Thanks, but I think everything I speculate on is very plausible.
Individually, I agree. But in its entirety is a tall order.

[akhhorus]

Individually, I agree. But in its entirety is a tall order.

With the uncapped year, all bets are off.

[BurgundyNGold]

With the uncapped year, all bets are off.
That much is true. We've never seen anything like what's upcoming. Clayton, Shefter... nobody knows how it's going to shake out. It's like doing one of these snow storm predictions. The only thing that seems to be certain is that there is going to be a lot of turnover throughout the league.

[shally]

Kirk Morrison. Especially since it looks like the Raiders won't tender him.

great call !!

i think it will be an offensive Guard, whoever it is...

[akhhorus]

That much is true. We've never seen anything like what's upcoming. Clayton, Shefter... nobody knows how it's going to shake out. It's like doing one of these snow storm predictions. The only thing that seems to be certain is that there is going to be a lot of turnover throughout the league.

Well, small market and cash strapped teams are going to purge contracts to big market/rich teams. I think you're going to see trading the likes of which hasn't been seen. After that, its going to be chaos. I think that teams can start dumping contracts today under the uncapped rules actually.

[shally]

With the uncapped year, all bets are off.

also, teams have SO MANY more RFA's than ever before, who knows how many of them will actually be tendered ?

[shally]

Well, small market and cash strapped teams are going to purge contracts to big market/rich teams. I think you're going to see trading the likes of which hasn't been seen. After that, its going to be chaos. I think that teams can start dumping contracts today under the uncapped rules actually.

true about today.. there were rumors about several players getting the axe today (Stallworth)

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, small market and cash strapped teams are going to purge contracts to big market/rich teams. I think you're going to see trading the likes of which hasn't been seen. After that, its going to be chaos. I think that teams can start dumping contracts today under the uncapped rules actually.
I think that will happen for sure. There is going to be a huge after market FA frenzy this year. I agree that trades will be up, the only question is how much. I mean, if small market teams and cheap owners won't spend money on their teams now, why would they immediately spend in an uncapped year? Would the trades be more player for player? Or will we see more draft picks for players? If that was the case, it would have to be large market to large market because the smaller market and cheaper owners won't trade draft picks for players that they won't pay for in the first place.

It's going to be total chaos for a while. Naturally, I'm looking forward to it.

[skins4life24]

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=773)

Guff on!

Great job as always, I needed something to take my attention away from work.

Why do you see the Rams so interested in getting rid of Chris Long after such a short time?

[akhhorus]

also, teams have SO MANY more RFA's than ever before, who knows how many of them will actually be tendered ?

I think a lot of them, tenders are fairly cheap and they'll mostly be dealt(probably for each other lol).

true about today.. there were rumors about several players getting the axe today (Stallworth)

I wouldn't be shocked if DeAngelo is cut this week.

I think that will happen for sure. There is going to be a huge after market FA frenzy this year. I agree that trades will be up, the only question is how much. I mean, if small market teams and cheap owners won't spend money on their teams now, why would they immediately spend in an uncapped year? Would the trades be more player for player? Or will we see more draft picks for players? If that was the case, it would have to be large market to large market because the smaller market and cheaper owners won't trade draft picks for players that they won't pay for in the first place.

It's going to be total chaos for a while. Naturally, I'm looking forward to it.

I think the trades will be players for young cheap players or any pick that they can get. For instance, a hypothetical: Marko Mitchell to Denver for both their OGs who are RFAs. Better to get some high upside prospect than nothing.

And the chaos will be awesome.

[akhhorus]

Great job as always, I needed something to take my attention away from work.

Why do you see the Rams so interested in getting rid of Chris Long after such a short time?

Thanks.
As for why:
1. The Rams are being sold soon, Long has one of the biggest contracts on the team.
2. Spags doesn't seem to like him, apparently they're already quietly fielding offers for him
3. The fans expected a ton from him(and have been disappointed), they are bleeding fans at their stadium already since they've won 3 games in the last 2 years.

[shally]

I think a lot of them, tenders are fairly cheap and they'll mostly be dealt(probably for each other lol).



I wouldn't be shocked if DeAngelo is cut this week.



I think the trades will be players for young cheap players or any pick that they can get. For instance, a hypothetical: Marko Mitchell to Denver for both their OGs who are RFAs. Better to get some high upside prospect than nothing.

And the chaos will be awesome.

if Hall is cut, i think it means Rogers stays for certain, with Smoot going as well

[shally]

I think a lot of them, tenders are fairly cheap and they'll mostly be dealt(probably for each other lol).



I wouldn't be shocked if DeAngelo is cut this week.



I think the trades will be players for young cheap players or any pick that they can get. For instance, a hypothetical: Marko Mitchell to Denver for both their OGs who are RFAs. Better to get some high upside prospect than nothing.

And the chaos will be awesome.

respectfully, Hamilton is well into his 30's, how can he be a RFA ?? he has to be UFA..Kuper definitely is RFA, however

[BurgundyNGold]

if Hall is cut, i think it means Rogers stays for certain, with Smoot going as well
Speaking of Rogers, when I was watching a #22 intercept a pass and streak back for a Pick 6 last night (Porter) it made me want to throw a brick at the TV.

[akhhorus]

respectfully, Hamilton is well into his 30's, how can he be a RFA ?? he has to be UFA..Kuper definitely is RFA, however

For some reason, he's on the RFA list. I'll adjust to be sure.

if Hall is cut, i think it means Rogers stays for certain, with Smoot going as well

Nah, I think they're all gone.

[skins4life24]

Thanks.
As for why:
1. The Rams are being sold soon, Long has one of the biggest contracts on the team.
2. Spags doesn't seem to like him, apparently they're already quietly fielding offers for him
3. The fans expected a ton from him(and have been disappointed), they are bleeding fans at their stadium already since they've won 3 games in the last 2 years.

Good info, the way I see it there loss is our gain. I still think Long could be a great player especially in a 3-4 that turned him into a top pick in college.

[skins4life24]

With an uncapped year on the horizon do you see shanny and allen trying to trade portis at all an recoup some value? This of course is on the assumption that shanny doesn't like to have a lot of value tied up in his RB's and might want to pick his own guys to build around.

[shally]

For some reason, he's on the RFA list. I'll adjust to be sure.



Nah, I think they're all gone.

scouts.com (warpathinsiders.com) has Hamilton listed as a UFA

also, Amano (Tenn) is another UFA who might be a possible for us..

[akhhorus]

With an uncapped year on the horizon do you see shanny and allen trying to trade portis at all an recoup some value? This of course is on the assumption that shanny doesn't like to have a lot of value tied up in his RB's and might want to pick his own guys to build around.

Nope. The skins aren't going to pay him 7 million(his guaranteed 2010 salary) to play elsewhere. And if Portis thought he was going to be dealt/cut, he would have sounded much different last week with his comments.

[BurgundyNGold]

Nope. The skins aren't going to pay him 7 million(his guaranteed 2010 salary) to play elsewhere. And if Portis thought he was going to be dealt/cut, he would have sounded much different last week with his comments.
Yeah, because Clinton Portis is a master strategist and a shrewd wordsmith lol. ;)

[shally]

Nope. The skins aren't going to pay him 7 million(his guaranteed 2010 salary) to play elsewhere. And if Portis thought he was going to be dealt/cut, he would have sounded much different last week with his comments.

proof will be what kind of shape he shows up in.. if he shows up at 215 range, he is gone.. if he comes back at a lean 195-205 watch out !!

[skins4life24]

proof will be what kind of shape he shows up in.. if he shows up at 215 range, he is gone.. if he comes back at a lean 195-205 watch out !!

However he shows up, we need to find someone who can share the load with him. I am to tired of seeing his up and down performances due to injury.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, because Clinton Portis is a master strategist and a shrewd wordsmith lol. ;)

I think that there's a difference between being a wordsmith and understanding your status on the team after talking to the decision maker.

[shally]

However he shows up, we need to find someone who can share the load with him. I am to tired of seeing his up and down performances due to injury.

totally agree with that.. and i dont mean Betts, either.. Chester Taylor just makes so much sense here

unless they were thinking about a guy like Gerhart inthe second round.. but we have so many other needs that i dont see that happening

[BurgundyNGold]

I think that there's a difference between being a wordsmith and understanding your status on the team after talking to the decision maker.
Portis isn't a sacred cow for 2010 because of his salary. Sure, it's highly likely he's here and his salary is a big part of why that would be, but I can see where he might not be.

The decision maker has said publicly several times that he expects Clinton to participate in offseason workout programs. If he does that, he's here for 2010. If he doesn't, I don't think Shanny cares about the $7M in an uncapped year. I think it's a matter of principle with him.

[skins4life24]

totally agree with that.. and i dont mean Betts, either.. Chester Taylor just makes so much sense here

unless they were thinking about a guy like Gerhart inthe second round.. but we have so many other needs that i dont see that happening

ESPN insider had an article that he was going to be looking for something in the range of 5-6 million a year, I like the guy but I don't think he is worth that kinda scratch.

[shally]

ESPN insider had an article that he was going to be looking for something in the range of 5-6 million a year, I like the guy but I don't think he is worth that kinda scratch.

there is simply NO WAY that Taylor commands that kind of salary at this point in his career

if he wants that, he will sit for a while

[skins4life24]

there is simply NO WAY that Taylor commands that kind of salary at this point in his career

if he wants that, he will sit for a while

It was in the rumors section so who knows what validity it has but it just popped into my mind when you mentioned his name. But if he is on the more economical side then that is a player I think would look very good in B&G.

[akhhorus]

Portis isn't a sacred cow for 2010 because of his salary. Sure, it's highly likely he's here and his salary is a big part of why that would be, but I can see where he might not be.

The decision maker has said publicly several times that he expects Clinton to participate in offseason workout programs. If he does that, he's here for 2010. If he doesn't, I don't think Shanny cares about the $7M in an uncapped year. I think it's a matter of principle with him.

I agree, but Portis wouldn't have said what he said about 2010 unless he was 95+% sure that he would be the starting Rb in 2010 here in DC. As I keep saying about Portis: its all about respect with him. When he doesn't respect the head coach, he runs his mouth and takes practice off as much as possible. When he respects his coach, there isn't a harder worker on and off the field. And we know he respects Shanny(and Bobby Turner). Is it possible that Portis sours on both of them during the preseason/2010 season? Sure, but its extremely unlikely.

[BurgundyNGold]

I agree, but Portis wouldn't have said what he said about 2010 unless he was 95+% sure that he would be the starting Rb in 2010 here in DC. As I keep saying about Portis: its all about respect with him. When he doesn't respect the head coach, he runs his mouth and takes practice off as much as possible. When he respects his coach, there isn't a hard worker on and off the field. And we know he respects Shanny(and Bobby Turner).
That's' a fair assessment and expect him to be in camp and setting the example. The thing is about Portis, you never know what plans his mouth has. That's the wildcard. If he starts mouthing off too much, he'll get shipped out again like he did the last time Shanny was the coach and he started acting bigger than the team. Shanny won't stand for that crap. Hopefully, Portis will get in here, shut up and return to form. I think he will, personally, but I can see how it could go south too.

[shally]

the thing is, it costs the team the same to keep him as to cut him.. that means to me, if he returns to form and leads by example, they will keep him and use him effectively.

if at any time, he becomes a negative influence, he is gone because there is no reason to keep him as he is paid either way.. portis knows his guaranteed contract cuts both ways.. it is about how much fire he has left in him and whether he wants a legitimate shot at the HOF when he is done

[skins4life24]

That's' a fair assessment and expect him to be in camp and setting the example. The thing is about Portis, you never know what plans his mouth has. That's the wildcard. If he starts mouthing off too much, he'll get shipped out again like he did the last time Shanny was the coach and he started acting bigger than the team. Shanny won't stand for that crap. Hopefully, Portis will get in here, shut up and return to form. I think he will, personally, but I can see how it could go south too.

portis mouth = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYtjpIwamos

[akhhorus]

That's' a fair assessment and expect him to be in camp and setting the example. The thing is about Portis, you never know what plans his mouth has. That's the wildcard. If he starts mouthing off too much, he'll get shipped out again like he did the last time Shanny was the coach and he started acting bigger than the team. Shanny won't stand for that crap. Hopefully, Portis will get in here, shut up and return to form. I think he will, personally, but I can see how it could go south too.

The only ways I could see that happening would be:
1-Shanny is a disaster of a coach
2-The Shanahans find a gem in Bradford and decide to go with 60% passing in the offense, but even then they probably wouldn't dump Portis until 2011.

the thing is, it costs the team the same to keep him as to cut him.. that means to me, if he returns to form and leads by example, they will keep him and use him effectively.

if at any time, he becomes a negative influence, he is gone because there is no reason to keep him as he is paid either way.. portis knows his guaranteed contract cuts both ways.. it is about how much fire he has left in him and whether he wants a legitimate shot at the HOF when he is done

He's only 2500 yards away from being a mortal lock for the HOF. Every RB over 12000 career rushing yards has or will make the HOF.

[BurgundyNGold]

The only ways I could see that happening would be:
1-Shanny is a disaster of a coach
2-The Shanahans find a gem in Bradford and decide to go with 60% passing in the offense, but even then they probably wouldn't dump Portis until 2011.
I think we can expect that out of Shanny anyway, honestly.

Shanny spent the whole offseason visiting teams and researching the league. He knows that the league is trending towards a 55-60% passing offense. Look at the final 4 (Saints, Vikes, Colts, Jets). Those teams are mostly passing teams. Add in the Cards, Iggles, and Dallass and you're looking at a good deal of success for teams that either lead with the pass or rely on it heavily.

He's only 2500 yards away from being a mortal lock for the HOF. Every RB over 12000 career rushing yards has or will make the HOF.
For some reason, I think Portis needs to get 14,000 or 15,000 if he's going to get in. I just get that feeling. Curtis Martin will be the measuring stick at 14,000. Tomlinson at 12,000.

[smoot]

Love Myron Rolle, he's going to be a high level starter for some team. If we can get him on the late second/early third day, it's a gigantic steal.

[akhhorus]

I think we can expect that out of Shanny anyway, honestly.

Shanny spent the whole offseason visiting teams and researching the league. He knows that the league is trending towards a 55-60% passing offense. Look at the final 4 (Saints, Vikes, Colts, Jets). Those teams are mostly passing teams. Add in the Cards, Iggles, and Dallass and you're looking at a good deal of success for teams that either lead with the pass or rely on it heavily.


Probably, but unless Bradford is the second coming of Peyton Manning, Portis won't go anywhere until 2011 at least.

For some reason, I think Portis needs to get 14,000 or 15,000 if he's going to get in. I just get that feeling. Curtis Martin will be the measuring stick at 14,000. Tomlinson at 12,000.

If he gets past Tomlinson in rushing yards(I don't think he's going to play more than another year or so), he's a mortal lock. There's no HOF Eligible RB with 11k rushing yards thats not in the Hall right now. Faulk, Martin, Bettis and Dillon almost certainly will get in(maybe not first ballot). Fred Taylor and LDT should make it also. Portis right now is that 9696 yards, I think if he gets past 11,500 rushing yards, he'll make it eventually(depending on who retires at the same time he does). If guys like Warrick Dunn, Ricky Watters(who should be in Canton imo) and Jamal Lewis make it in, Portis probably just has to get to 11k rushing yards.

Love Myron Rolle, he's going to be a high level starter for some team. If we can get him on the late second/early third day, it's a gigantic steal.

Yeah, I think he's going to be a superstar.

[BurgundyNGold]

Probably, but unless Bradford is the second coming of Peyton Manning, Portis won't go anywhere until 2011 at least.
That's just it, I don't think that the Portis issue would be tied to anything else. If, for whatever reason, Shanny thinks that Portis needs to go, he's gone. I don't think that Shanny will put a whole lot of thought into Bradford or 60% passing or Ladell Betts because Shanny acts with his balls lol. If he's reached his limit with someone, they're gone.

That said, I think he regrets not having Portis and will not move him unless Portis gone ape ****.

If he gets past Tomlinson in rushing yards(I don't think he's going to play more than another year or so), he's a mortal lock. There's no HOF Eligible RB with 11k rushing yards thats not in the Hall right now. Faulk, Martin, Bettis and Dillon almost certainly will get in(maybe not first ballot). Fred Taylor and LDT should make it also. Portis right now is that 9696 yards, I think if he gets past 11,500 rushing yards, he'll make it eventually(depending on who retires at the same time he does). If guys like Warrick Dunn, Ricky Watters(who should be in Canton imo) and Jamal Lewis make it in, Portis probably just has to get to 11k rushing yards.
I guess that's where we differ. I don't think that half of those guys should be in the HOF.

Yeah, I think he's going to be a superstar.
Agreed.

[akhhorus]

That's just it, I don't think that the Portis issue would be tied to anything else. If, for whatever reason, Shanny thinks that Portis needs to go, he's gone. I don't think that Shanny will put a whole lot of thought into Bradford or 60% passing or Ladell Betts because Shanny acts with his balls lol. If he's reached his limit with someone, they're gone.

That said, I think he regrets not having Portis and will not move him unless Portis gone ape ****.

Agreed.

I guess that's where we differ. I don't think that half of those guys should be in the HOF.


The only one I don't think should be in should be Bettis, but he had 10 seasons over 800 rushing yards(8 over 1000). Curtis Martin and Faulk are first ballot HOFers. LDT..I think he was seriously overrated, racked up big stats against bad teams and struggled when it mattered most--but he'll make it in.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i'd keep hall before i'd keep carlos rogers.i have never really thought much of him or motormouth smoot either time.i'd love to see a straight up trade chris long for andre carter.i hope we dump ARE this seek,and i'd love to see the skins keep marko mitchell.

[BurgundyNGold]

The only one I don't think should be in should be Bettis, but he had 10 seasons over 800 rushing yards(8 over 1000). Curtis Martin and Faulk are first ballot HOFers. LDT..I think he was seriously overrated, racked up big stats against bad teams and struggled when it mattered most--but he'll make it in.
I say yes to Martin and Faulk. Probably to LT. Bettis, maybe... I wouldn't be upset if he got in. No on Dunn, Dillon, Lewis. And if Craig isn't in, Watters shouldn't get in.

[akhhorus]

I say yes to Martin and probably to LT. Bettis, maybe. No on Dunn, Dillon, Lewis. And if Craig isn't in, Watters shouldn't get in.

I agree on Dunn and Lewis. Craig should be in, Watters should be also. 10,300 rushing yards, 4200 receiving yards, 91 total TDs. 1 season out of 10 under 800 yards rushing, 7 1000 yard rushing seasons. He's a hall of famer.

[ObiWan1278]

I don't see how we get Chris Long for so cheap at this point but even more so than that .... No way we get a second round pick for Campbell. It just won't happen... 4th or higher ....I think he will be a skin next year....Id rather have Campbell than any of those 3 anyway.

[shane88]

Well done, sir. Nicely thought out. I like the changes, but, not sure how much of that will actually occur. Hard to say with the uncapped year....it's gonna be crazy!!! And much fun to watch!

Question for ya Akh, slightly off-topic, but;

Is there anyone drafting after us that might have their sights set on Bradford that would/could swing some kind of block-buster deal to move ahead of us? And, if that were to happen, shouldn't we maybe trade out of #4 and try to garner a couple extra picks?

[redcayman]

Is there any way that a rookie pay scale can be put into place absent a new CBA?

[esmith1790]

Someone stated the league is going to a passing league 55-60%, i dont remember who commented that. Based off that assumption, how is replacing the secondary with really young guys gonna help? 2011 season?.

Getting rid of DH, FS, CR and going with a new lineup?

I guess 2010 is a real re-building season, not just a player away mentality anymore.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Well done, sir. Nicely thought out. I like the changes, but, not sure how much of that will actually occur. Hard to say with the uncapped year....it's gonna be crazy!!! And much fun to watch!


I agree - well thought out and entertaining. I'm not sure all those moves happen but it's a possibility with an uncapped year.
Some thoughts:
1. I believe Hamilton is a UFA from other sites I have visited.
2. Minor point - Jacob Hickman (Shanny track 7th round OC from Nebraska) is not going to pursue an NFL career.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20100206/BIGRED03/100209682/0/FRONTPAGE

[BurgundyNGold]

Someone stated the league is going to a passing league 55-60%, i dont remember who commented that. Based off that assumption, how is replacing the secondary with really young guys gonna help? 2011 season?.

Getting rid of DH, FS, CR and going with a new lineup?

I guess 2010 is a real re-building season, not just a player away mentality anymore.
The league is already a passing league. In 2009, all but about 4 teams passed more than 50% of the time, 23 teams passed more than 55% of the time and 7 teams passed more than 60% of the time.

As for going with a new lineup, I can say that, at least for Rogers, he's just not very good. He'd be a great SS, of which we have 2 already (Landry and Horton).

[IowaSkinsFan]

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=773)

Guff on!

Dallas is going to let Kitna go?

Why do the Rams want to move Chris Long?

[Lavar703]

Good job as always. I do have some questions though:

1. Why do you think they will get rid of Hall? He seems to be the only guy we have on defense that is capable of catching the football.

2. Why do you believe St.Louis would be so willing to part with Long when there most likely going to make Suh there first round pick which would ultimately impact the careers of Long, Little, Carriker and Lauranitus in a very positive way?

3. Why are you a fan of trading Rocky McIntosh?

4. Instead of selecting Dixon, why wouldn't you go with someone like LeGarrette Blount for Shanahan as he always seems to pick guys with character issues that drop in the draft i.e. Marcus Thomas and Mo Clarrett?

5. Do you think we will possibly go after Dexter McCluster at some point in this draft, whether we trade down in the 2nd and pick up a 3rd or he falls to the 4th due to issues with his build?

[akhhorus]

Is there anyone drafting after us that might have their sights set on Bradford that would/could swing some kind of block-buster deal to move ahead of us? And, if that were to happen, shouldn't we maybe trade out of #4 and try to garner a couple extra picks?

I wouldn't trade out of #4. In the last 9 drafts, there's only been 2 trades involving top 5 picks being dealt out of the top 5:
1-Jets deal picks #13(Michael Haynes) and #22(Rex Grossman) to the Bears for #4(Dwayne Robertson)
2-Browns deal #5(Dirty Sanchez) pick to the Jets for #17(Alex Mack), #52(David Veikune) and 3 backups.

I wouldn't take either deal. I'd much rather keep the pick for a deal around that level.

Is there any way that a rookie pay scale can be put into place absent a new CBA?

Probably not this close to the draft.

I agree - well thought out and entertaining. I'm not sure all those moves happen but it's a possibility with an uncapped year.
Some thoughts:
1. I believe Hamilton is a UFA from other sites I have visited.
2. Minor point - Jacob Hickman (Shanny track 7th round OC from Nebraska) is not going to pursue an NFL career.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20100206/BIGRED03/100209682/0/FRONTPAGE

1. I made the appropriate changes.
2. Thanks, I didn't know that and changed the pick.

Dallas is going to let Kitna go?

Why do the Rams want to move Chris Long?

I think Jeruh is going to cut salary whereever he can. He's having some money issues.

And I answered the Chris Long thing:
1. The Rams are being sold soon, Long has one of the biggest contracts on the team.
2. Spags doesn't seem to like him, apparently they're already quietly fielding offers for him
3. The fans expected a ton from him(and have been disappointed), they are bleeding fans at their stadium already since they've won 3 games in the last 2 years.

Good job as always. I do have some questions though:

1. Why do you think they will get rid of Hall? He seems to be the only guy we have on defense that is capable of catching the football.

Perhaps, but his contract is criminal. No way they keep him at 8ish million a year. They shouldn't have given him an extension that big, and he vastly underplayed it in 2009.

2. Why do you believe St.Louis would be so willing to part with Long when there most likely going to make Suh there first round pick which would ultimately impact the careers of Long, Little, Carriker and Lauranitus in a very positive way?


Cutting and pasting from above:
1. The Rams are being sold soon, Long has one of the biggest contracts on the team.
2. Spags doesn't seem to like him, apparently they're already quietly fielding offers for him
3. The fans expected a ton from him(and have been disappointed), they are bleeding fans at their stadium already since they've won 3 games in the last 2 years.

3. Why are you a fan of trading Rocky McIntosh?


Because I don't think that the skins will make a long term commitment to him, but they will deal his RFA rights.

4. Instead of selecting Dixon, why wouldn't you go with someone like LeGarrette Blount for Shanahan as he always seems to pick guys with character issues that drop in the draft i.e. Marcus Thomas and Mo Clarrett?

Andre Dixon has his own off the field issues lol. Blount is a possibility, but I think he'll be taken in the 4th round.

5. Do you think we will possibly go after Dexter McCluster at some point in this draft, whether we trade down in the 2nd and pick up a 3rd or he falls to the 4th due to issues with his build?

I think that he's a possibility, but they won't take him in the 2nd(or 4th). I think he'll go in the late 2nd(barring a bad combine).

[esmith1790]

Not to get off topic but how is Jerry having money issues.
That new stadium is hosting every event known to man it seems. NBA all-star weekend is next weekend. The big boxing fight is coming also. Super Bowl next year.

He Just gave that big Deal to Demarcus Ware and another deal is coming for Miles Austin.

[akhhorus]

Not to get off topic but how is Jerry having money issues.
That new stadium is hosting every event known to man it seems. NBA all-star weekend is next weekend. The big boxing fight is coming also. Super Bowl next year.

He Just gave that big Deal to Demarcus Ware and another deal is coming for Miles Austin.

And he has about a billion in debt on his stadium. ESPN reported multiple times that Shanahan(or Cowher or any BIG name coach) wouldn't be hired by Dallas since Jerah couldn't afford to pay them their salary demands.

All the events except the Super bowl don't really get Jeruh too much money(even the Super bowl won't give him a ton of cash). And he's almost certainly going to dump players like Roy Williams, Barber and Flozell Adams so he can pay Ware and Miles Austin.

[Nomad]

With the impending uncapped season and based on Bruce Allen’s comments to the Washington Post, it appears that barring some last minute change of mind, the skins are going to purge the roster of a lot of their big contracts to effect a change of culture at Redskins Park. With the ability to purge vets and sign basically whomever he wants, this gives the skins great flexibility to bring in more specialized veterans for some roles to team with younger players still developing. And with the union saying publicly that if the cap goes away, its never coming back, expect three things:

1-A lot of trading, especially of bigger contract players

2-A general purging of inflated deals

3-Then a run on talented players cut or unrestricted free agents.

My guess at what Shanahan is going to do in terms of rebuilding the roster might be more conceptual than factual, while they might not trade Campbell to Buffalo, they probably are going to deal him to any number of teams who pick in the first half of the draft for roughly a 2nd round pick(and so on). However, I do think that there are some players that look like obvious targets for Shanahan to go after and we’ll see if they’re available to him. If McDaniels is serious about purging the Shanny Olinemen, we’re obviously their first stop in free agency. Any 3-4 rush LB vet would have his agent call the skins to be teamed with Orakpo on the edge. And so on. Obviously Shanahan has 3 areas on the team that he has to improve dramatically: Qb, Oline and defensive back 7 and fortunately he has the resources in money/draft picks to get that done.



Shanahan Track(assuming no cap):

Cuts:

Derrick Dockery, DeAngelo Hall, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Ladell Betts, Mike Sellers, Cornelius Griffin, Renaldo Wynn, Fred Smoot, Randy Thomas

DOCKERY STAYS. HALL STAYS, AND PLAYS MUCH BETTER AFTER SOME COACHING UP AND A SCHEME BETTER SUITED TO HIS SKILLS.

Trades:

Andre Carter to the Rams for Chris Long.

NO WAY.

Santana Moss to Bengals for a 3rd round pick.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD GIVE UP THAT MUCH FOR A 30 SOMETHING RECEIVER. HE'LL BE 31 START OF NEXT SEASON, AND IS A SPEEDSTER, MEANING THE DROP OFF AS HE AGES COULD BE SEVERE. I'D LOVE TO GET EVEN A 5TH FOR HIM. LIKE PORTIS, I THINK ALOT OF HIS LACK OF SUCCESS IS NUMNUTTED SCHEMING, BUT IF YOU ARE REBUILDING, THERE IS NO PLACE FOR A RECEIVER WHO WILL BE 33 BY THE TIME YOU ARE READY TO COMPETER FOR SB. TRADE HIM FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN GET.

LaRon Landry to the Saints for the rights to Jermon Bushrod(who gets a 4 year, 20 million dollar deal).

LANDRY STAYS, IS USED PROPERLY, AND HAS A MUCH BETTER YEAR. SCHEME WILL BE SIMPLIFIED, ALLOWING HIM TO PLAY MORE INSTINCTUALLY.

RFA rights to Jason Campbell to Buffalo for their 2nd round pick.

IF ONLY...THIS WOULD BE A DREAM, BUT I THINK A 3RD WOULD BE VERY GOOD, A 4TH REALISTIC.

RFA rights to Carlos Rogers to Detroit for a 3rd round pick.

NO ONE IS GIVING UP THAT MUCH FOR STONE HANDS. I THINK WE LET HIM WALK, GET A 4TH ROUND COMP, OR LOWBALL TENDER HIM, JUST TO PICK UP DRAFT PICK. HE SHOULD BE GONE. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A BUST IF A 2ND ROUND PICK, HE IS TOP 10. CAN'T WAIT TO NEVER HAVE TO SEE HIM DROP AN EASY INTERCEPTION AGAIN.

RFA rights to Rocky McIntosh to Denver for the RFA rights to Chris Kuper(he gets a 4 year, 17 million dollar deal).

INTERESTING ONE. IF WE RUN 3-4, HE WOULD SEEM TO BE TOO SMALL.

FA signings:

Ben Hamilton to a 4 year, 17 million dollar deal

Levi Jones to a 2 year, 6 million dollar deal

Jon Kitna to a 2 year, 7 million dollar deal

Matt Prater to a 3 year, 6 million dollar deal

Peyton Hillis to a 1 year, 2 million dollar deal

Kirk Morrison to a 4 year, 24 million dollar deal

Mike McKenzie to a 2 year, 4 million dollar deal

Jason Taylor to a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal(side note: I think the Skins will sign a vet with 3-4 rush LB experience, Taylor is the most plausible candidate, but don’t count out Shawne Merriman or Tully Banta-Cain on short deals)

NO WAY WE SIGN TAYLOR AGAIN. I THINK SHANAHAN WILL GENERALLY AVOID SIGNING OR TRADING FOR ANY OLDER PLAYERS--EXCEPT ON OL WHERE HE MAY NOT HAVE A CHOICE.

Chester Pitts to a 3 year, 9 million dollar deal

Draft:

#1(4): Sam Bradford Qb Oklahoma

#2(36): Jason Fox OT Miami

#2(41): Corey Wooten DL Northwestern

#3(67): Kyle Wilson CB Boise State

#3(85): Trevard Lindley CB Kentucky

#3(95): Myron Rolle FS FSU

#4(106): Stafon Johnson RB USC

#5(144): Shawn Lauvao OG Arizona State

#7(214): Joel Nitchman OC Michigan State

YOU KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT COLLEGE FOOTBALL THAN ME, BUT THIS SHOULD BE 4 OL, 1 QB, AND IN LATER ROUNDS 5 AND 7, WHOEVER THEY THINK WILL ACTUALLY MAKE THE TEAM. IF WE DRAFT BRADFORD, I THINK THE FOCUS HAS TO BE PROTECTING HIM AND STARTING HIM ASAP. THAT DOESN'T ENTAIL DRAFTING 3 DBs AND A RB. I THINK WE STAND PAT WITH PORTIS AND DRAFT RB NEXT YEAR. IN A PERFECT WORLD, BRADFORD WOULD BE THE REAL DEAL, THE RAMS WOULDN'T TAKE HIM, AND THEN WE'D FIND OL IN LATE ROUNDS WE THINK SHOULD START. I KNOW IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS, AND MAYBE IT IS, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE QB, T, T, T, G, C. ASSUMING WE CAN DEAL 1-2 PEOPLE FOR PICKS, ANOTHER T AND G/C. EVEN IF 1 GETS CUT, THAT'S THE DRAFT WE NEED. GET OUR QB, THEN PROTECT HIM. EVERYTHING ELSE CAN WAIT.


Starting Lineup:

X WR: Devin Thomas

Y WR: Malcolm Kelly

TE: Chris Cooley

LT: Jermon Bushrod/Jason Fox

LG: Ben Hamilton

OC: Kory Lichtensteiger/Hickman

RG: Chris Kuper

RT: Jason Fox/Bushrod

QB: Jon Kitna/Bradford

FB: Fred Davis/Peyton Hillis

RB: Clinton Portis


Elephant: Brian Orakpo

DE: Chris Long

NT: Albert Haynesworth

DE: Corey Wooten/Jeremy Jarmon

OLB: Jason Taylor

ILB: London Fletcher

ILB: Kirk Morrison

CB: Mike McKenzie/Wilson

CB: Lindley/Barnes/Tyron

FS: Myron Rolle

SS: Chris Horton

P: Hunter Smith

K: Matt Prater

KR: Marko Mitchell/Rock

PR: See above

I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME 3 WR SETS WITH THOMAS, KELLY, MITCHELL. I KNOW IT SOUNDS ABSURD, AND MAY BE, BUT EVEN ONCE IN AWHILE THOMAS, KELLY, MITCHELL, COOLEY, DAVIS. OR THOMAS MITCHELL COOLEY DAVIS WITH PORTIS (GREAT BLOCKER) IN BACKFIELD. I COULD BE OFF HERE, BUT I LIKE MITCHELL'S POTENTIAL MORE THAN KELLY'S. 3 BIG WRs WHO CAN ALL RUN, PLUS 2 TEs--PICK ANY 4, IT IS A MATCHUP NIGHTMARE, AND I THINK SHANAHAN WILL EXPLOIT IT.

WE GO 3-4, YEAR 2 YOU NEED ANOTHER BEEF DRAFT. 3 MORE OL, 2-3 DL, MAYBE A RB OR RUSH LB.


What I like about this track: A lot of young talent, good defensive flexibility, smart defensive players and 4 offensive line starters under the age of 30

What I don’t like about this track: overly dependant on 4 players: Cooley, Long, Wooten and Mike McKenzie.They need Cooley to move the passing game until Bradford clicks with Kelly/Thomas. Long and Wooten will need to eat up the OTs. McKenzie has to hold down the CB spot until Lindley/Barnes are ready.


My track(assuming no cap):

Cuts: Dockery, Hall, Randle El, Collins, Smoot, Daniels, Randy Thomas, Wynn, Sellers, Griffin, Betts


Trades:

Andre Carter, Santana Moss and Jason Campbell to St Louis for their 2nd round pick, Danny Amendola and Chris Long

UNREALISTIC. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME DEAL LIKE THIS THAT NETS US MULTIPLE PICKS, EVEN LOWER, THAT WE USE TO GET SOME BODIES ON LINES.

RFA rights to Carlos Rogers to Seattle for a 3rd round pick

RFA rights to Rocky McIntosh to Denver for RFA rights to Chris Kuper(4 year, 16 million dollar deal)

LaRon Landry to Green Bay for the RFA right to Nick Collins and a 3rd round pick(Collins gets a 4 year, 18 million dollar deal)

Seattle’s 3rd round pick to Indy for Tony Ugoh(who gets a 3 year extension at 4.5 million a year)

Signings:

Matt Prater to a 2 year, 6 million dollar deal

Dunta Robinson to a 4 years, 21 million deal

Ryan Pickett to a 3 year, 15 million dollar deal

Ben Hamilton to a 4 year, 17 million dollar deal

Chad Pennington to a 3 year, 9 million dollar deal

Angelo Crowell to a 1 year, 4 million dollar deal

John Kuhn to a 2 year, 4 million dollar deal

Marlin Jackson to a 5 year, 17 million dollar deal

Adalius Thomas to a 2 year, 5.5 million dollar deal


Draft:

1st rounder(#4): Sam Bradford Qb Oklahoma

2nd rounder(from St Louis–#33): Charles Brown OT USC

2nd rounder(#36): Brandon Spikes LB Florida

3rd rounder(#83): Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana of PA

4th rounder(#116): Jeff Byers OG USC

5th rounder(#156): Jason Worilds 3-4 OLB Va Tech

7th rounder(#225): Andre Dixon RB U-Conn

AGAIN, QB, T, T, G, C, T, G/C WOULD BE MY IDEAL DRAFT. WE NEED 10-12 O-LINEMEN ON ROSTER/PS, AND HAVE 1. I THINK ANY DRAFT W/OUT AT LEAST 4 OLINEMEN IS A FAILURE.

Starting Lineup:

X WR: Devin Thomas

Y WR: Malcolm Kelly

TE: Chris Cooley

LT: Charles Brown

LG: Ben Hamilton

OC: Kory Lichtensteiger

RG: Chris Kuper

RT: Tony Ugoh

QB: Chad Pennington/Bradford

FB: John Kuhn

RB: Clinton Portis


Elephant: Brian Orakpo

DE: Chris Long

NT: Ryan Pickett

DE: Albert Haynesworth

OLB: Angelo Crowell/Jason Worilds

ILB: London Fletcher

ILB: Brandon Spikes

CB: Dunta Robinson

CB: Marlin Jackson

FS: Nick Collins

SS: Chris Horton

P: Hunter Smith

K: Matt Prater

KR: Danny Amendola

PR: Danny Amendola

GOOD STUFF, AKH. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US REALLY KNOW, BUT SPECULATING KILLS THE TIME. I WILL REPEAT MY MANTRA AGAIN: FIND A FRANCHISE QB, THEN PROTECT HIM. EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY, ESPECIALLY THE SECONDARY. PEACE OUT.

[Nomad]

Pardon the 9 foot posting!

[cal_junior]

I think Jeruh is going to cut salary whereever he can. He's having some money issues.


In terms of pronunciation, whenever I see this spelling all I can think about is this:

http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/store/images/large/CDs/jeru_sunrises_LRG.jpg

Should it be Jerrah, maybe? I think I know the effect you're going for but that spelling keeps throwing me off.

[shally]

in the end, i dont think there will be much more league trading than in years past.. not enough to be of significance--especially the Redskins.. if we make one trade that gets rid of a player, i will be surprised.. on the other hand, trading picks FOR players has always been the Redskin way, dating back to Pappa Allen so that wouldnt surprise me

[akhhorus]

in the end, i dont think there will be much more league trading than in years past.. not enough to be of significance--especially the Redskins.. if we make one trade that gets rid of a player, i will be surprised.. on the other hand, trading picks FOR players has always been the Redskin way, dating back to Pappa Allen so that wouldnt surprise me

The mechanism that holds down trading is cap charges/dead cap money. Thats not a factor without a cap. And with the dramatic increase of restricted free agents because of the change in service eligibility, I would be shocked if we didn't see a giant burst of trading this offseason at least. If I'm a small market team with a couple albatross contracts, I trade them for just about anything(even 6th or 7th round picks) to get them off the books.

[akhhorus]

Nomad, don't cut and paste my entire post, I'm only going to respond to one part here:


DOCKERY STAYS. HALL STAYS, AND PLAYS MUCH BETTER AFTER SOME COACHING UP AND A SCHEME BETTER SUITED TO HIS SKILLS.


Dockery and Hall aren't staying with their contracts. Hall is a terrible fit for Haslett's defense, Dockery is useless in the Zone block scheme. If both are on this team in 8 weeks, I will be shocked.

[redcayman]

I wonder if we don't choose to tender some of our RFA will we get Comp draft picks? If this is the case we might be better off letting a few of our RFA eligible players go. We might do better with the comp picks which wont cost the new team anything other than salary. I can see them being more hard pressed to trade a pick and a new salary.

[shally]

The mechanism that holds down trading is cap charges/dead cap money. Thats not a factor without a cap. And with the dramatic increase of restricted free agents because of the change in service eligibility, I would be shocked if we didn't see a giant burst of trading this offseason at least. If I'm a small market team with a couple albatross contracts, I trade them for just about anything(even 6th or 7th round picks) to get them off the books.

i understand and agree with EVERY reason you say.,, i am just saying, there is no business model for the NFL that has been in use for the last 50 years, cap or no cap, that has the NFL teams trading wholesale numbers of players.. it simply isnt like Baseball that way.. even NHL has more trades

what i think will quash a lot of prospective trades is the fear by teams that some kind of punitive rules will be put in place retroactively. plus, just about every team, given the choice, will go cheaper, younger, if given the chance.
careers are so short,on the average, that teams simply dont want a player with mileage on him

i am not going to re fill your Bourbon stock by betting with you, but i will say that except for maybe a little flurry, there will be very little more trading this year than average..

[shally]

Nomad, don't cut and paste my entire post, I'm only going to respond to one part here:



Dockery and Hall aren't staying with their contracts. Hall is a terrible fit for Haslett's defense, Dockery is useless in the Zone block scheme. If both are on this team in 8 weeks, I will be shocked.

no "bet" proffered, but we arent replacing 5 out of 5 O linemen..Dockery stays, scheme or no scheme, because he is young, healthy, and call pull if given the chance

Hall ? maybe..Haslett wont put up with all his missed tackles, for sure

[shally]

I wonder if we don't choose to tender some of our RFA will we get Comp draft picks? If this is the case we might be better off letting a few of our RFA eligible players go. We might do better with the comp picks which wont cost the new team anything other than salary. I can see them being more hard pressed to trade a pick and a new salary.

depends upon the "level" we tender them.. few of our reserve players are truly worth what the tender would cost (you REALLY think someone will give us a 1,3 for Campbell ???).. so all that does by tendering them is make them 1 year players in most cases..

[akhhorus]

I wonder if we don't choose to tender some of our RFA will we get Comp draft picks? If this is the case we might be better off letting a few of our RFA eligible players go. We might do better with the comp picks which wont cost the new team anything other than salary. I can see them being more hard pressed to trade a pick and a new salary.

Well, thats basically what I'm saying, but I think we'll steer our RFAs to a team for trades that we would like.

i understand and agree with EVERY reason you say.,, i am just saying, there is no business model for the NFL that has been in use for the last 50 years, cap or no cap, that has the NFL teams trading wholesale numbers of players.. it simply isnt like Baseball that way.. even NHL has more trades

what i think will quash a lot of prospective trades is the fear by teams that some kind of punitive rules will be put in place retroactively. plus, just about every team, given the choice, will go cheaper, younger, if given the chance.
careers are so short,on the average, that teams simply dont want a player with mileage on him

i am not going to re fill your Bourbon stock by betting with you, but i will say that except for maybe a little flurry, there will be very little more trading this year than average..

I know its not standard operation procedure for trading in the NFL, and there hasn't been a track record of heavy trading(well, Plan B free agency in the late 80s/early 90s did lead to de facto trading)..but this is so unprecedented in the NFL to have a situation like this and teams are slobbering over the ability to dump contracts in any way, shape or form that all bets are off imo.

[shally]

Well, thats basically what I'm saying, but I think we'll steer our RFAs to a team for trades that we would like.



I know its not standard operation procedure for trading in the NFL, and there hasn't been a track record of heavy trading(well, Plan B free agency in the late 80s/early 90s did lead to de facto trading)..but this is so unprecedented in the NFL to have a situation like this and teams are slobbering over the ability to dump contracts in any way, shape or form that all bets are off imo.

oh, without question MASSIVE numbers of contracts will be dumped this year.. with signings by other teams, so there will be a form of de facto trading going on as teams purge players..

but, without a salary floor, the cheaper teams arent looking to add any player under existing contract when they can replace him with a cheaper, younger version

and it is the unknown of 2011 and beyond that will hold down potential trades..
teams have no idea what to expect and will pull back, for the most part, and not take any risks

[akhhorus]

oh, without question MASSIVE numbers of contracts will be dumped this year.. with signings by other teams, so there will be a form of de facto trading going on as teams purge players..

but, without a salary floor, the cheaper teams arent looking to add any player under existing contract when they can replace him with a cheaper, younger version

and it is the unknown of 2011 and beyond that will hold down potential trades..
teams have no idea what to expect and will pull back, for the most part, and not take any risks

Thats what I think will drive the movement more than anything: teams wanting to purge salary and are willing to take 30 cents on the dollar to get rid of the deal..while the team taking the contract gets a deal without the signing bonus(or any other prior guaranteed money paid out), so if the cap comes back, they can purge that contract for zero cap penalty.

[shally]

Thats what I think will drive the movement more than anything: teams wanting to purge salary and are willing to take 30 cents on the dollar to get rid of the deal..while the team taking the contract gets a deal without the signing bonus(or any other prior guaranteed money paid out), so if the cap comes back, they can purge that contract for zero cap penalty.

i dont know about that.. if you take the contract, you might not get stuck with the SB prorated, but you are stuck with deals that usually escalate severely.. so it is a one year deal, in effect..

still, you never know what the new CBA will entail.. maybe contracts become partially guaranteed through their lifetime ?? maybe a severe penalty is agreed upon for dumping a contract that doesnt have any relavent signing bonus still in effect ?? you just never know what kind of screwy deal could be put in place..since it will only be a few teams that actually trade a lot, they will be the ones vulnerable..

in the end, it will be safer, and cheaper, to go with a lot of rookies and free agents..

[akhhorus]

i dont know about that.. if you take the contract, you might not get stuck with the SB prorated, but you are stuck with deals that usually escalate severely.. so it is a one year deal, in effect..

Yeah, but the contracts can be cut for no dead money if there's suddenly massive payments going forward. Take Landry's contract, he got a massive signing bonus and I think 2 roster bonuses since we drafted him. If we dealt him, the team would be taking on about 17-20 million over 3 years--which really isn't that much.

still, you never know what the new CBA will entail.. maybe contracts become partially guaranteed through their lifetime ?? maybe a sever penalty is agreed upon for dumping a contract that doesnt have any relavent signing bonus still in effect ?? you just never know what kind of screwy deal could be put inplace..

in the end, it will be safer, and cheaper, to go with a lot of rookies and free agents..

I think that they're fairly clear on the cap guidelines, the sticking points are revenue streams into the cap(the NFL wants to reign them back, a rookie wage scale etc in exchange for some structural changes to compensation to vets and letting the players get streams from places they haven't gotten before).

[shally]

Yeah, but the contracts can be cut for no dead money if there's suddenly massive payments going forward. Take Landry's contract, he got a massive signing bonus and I think 2 roster bonuses since we drafted him. If we dealt him, the team would be taking on about 17-20 million over 3 years--which really isn't that much.



I think that they're fairly clear on the cap guidelines, the sticking points are revenue streams into the cap(the NFL wants to reign them back, a rookie wage scale etc in exchange for some structural changes to compensation to vets and letting the players get streams from places they haven't gotten before).

possibly.. once it is no longer in effect, who knows what conditions are negotiated ?

[akhhorus]

possibly.. once it is no longer in effect, who knows what conditions are negotiated ?

Oh, I'm saying that both sides, from what I understand, agree on the basic guidelines of a salary spending plan(it is possible that the cap could go away), but teams aren't going to be stuck with fully guaranteed deals that they can't get out of. The owners would never agree to that.

[shally]

Oh, I'm saying that both sides, from what I understand, agree on the basic guidelines of a salary spending plan(it is possible that the cap could go away), but teams aren't going to be stuck with fully guaranteed deals that they can't get out of. The owners would never agree to that.

if it only is relevant to a couple of teams like the Pats, Redskins and Dallas because of their actions, the rest would have no problems letting them take one in the shorts

[Shawnb555]

now way all 5 o-line men are replaced its just not going to happen. I like some of this but it reeks of old skins move which most of us have blasted.....You have like 17 starters gone idk if a team ever has done that

[akhhorus]

if it only is relevant to a couple of teams like the Pats, Redskins and Dallas because of their actions, the rest would have no problems letting them take one in the shorts

I don't see any owner agreeing to fully guaranteed contracts ever. They'll lock out the players before they agree to that. It might effect the big money teams more, but every team would be stuck with massive deals sooner or later.

[akhhorus]

now way all 5 o-line men are replaced its just not going to happen. I like some of this but it reeks of old skins move which most of us have blasted.....You have like 17 starters gone idk if a team ever has done that

The Falcons replaced over 10 starters from 2007 to 2008. The Dolphins changed 17 from 07 to 08 also. The Saints changed 17 starters from 05 to 06. I don't know why you think this is so unprecedented.

[skinsfan36]

nice job. do not want jason taylor back here under any circumstances.
otherwise like the 1st track over the 2nd track.
but i dont know if we get rid of landry,hall,or dockery. i mean theres no cap but these guys can play under real coaches.
i really hope we retool the oline like you mention. i will be disappointed if we dont and will be disappointed if we dont land bradford

[colkurtz]

nice writeup and start to perhaps a wild offseason.

I thought the team would replace 50% of it's starters. It certainly may be higher. This team is way too old, over-priced, and many of the guys don't have the right attitude.

I'm ready for the the true youth movement in this rebuilding year.

[jaylen]

Not that AKH needs taking up for, but his thought process probably is based on a clean bill of health from Dr. Andrews. If the Skins draft him, Shanny will build the line 1st and not 'throw him to the wolves' so to speak. I personally like Bradford's upside with Shanny grooming him for the future.

Even with a clean bill of health Bradford is a thin qb that isn't that mobile. Looking at his frame I just don't see how he's gonna take many hits at all. As a qb have no faith that he's a franchise qb none at all solid arm accurate lacks intagibles to be a leader IMO.

If we're taking a qb just because he's projected as the best qb and tie up that sorta money in him then we'll set this franchise back bigtime.

[BurgundyNGold]

In terms of pronunciation, whenever I see this spelling all I can think about is this:

Should it be Jerrah, maybe? I think I know the effect you're going for but that spelling keeps throwing me off.
I use Jerruh as a matter of linguistics. The "uh" is more in keeping with his Arkansas roots. Now, if he had been from Mississippi, I would probably use the "ah" suffix.

[Gravy]

Akh, I believe you missed your calling, how are you not in a football FO somewhere? Great stuff, truly a lot of time and work went into this, thanks for all you do...and thanks for the love for my boy Rolle. Do you believe there will be a lock out in 2011?

[lorimike]

I liked the draft. But I have no desire to see Jason Taylor back here. I am still seething about the 2nd rounder we gave up for him. Not sure I am down with the cutting of Dockery but that fits with the need for smaller more mobile OG's. And I cannot imagine the Rams trading Long for Carter.

[akhhorus]

Even with a clean bill of health Bradford is a thin qb that isn't that mobile. Looking at his frame I just don't see how he's gonna take many hits at all. As a qb have no faith that he's a franchise qb none at all solid arm accurate lacks intagibles to be a leader IMO.

If we're taking a qb just because he's projected as the best qb and tie up that sorta money in him then we'll set this franchise back bigtime.

I think you should go watch some more film on Bradford. His build is about the same as Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, etc. He's got very good mobility and a good arm.

Akh, I believe you missed your calling, how are you not in a football FO somewhere? Great stuff, truly a lot of time and work went into this, thanks for all you do...and thanks for the love for my boy Rolle. Do you believe there will be a lock out in 2011?

I tend to believe that they'll figure something out after seeing the chaos of not having a cap. Its not like they're nowhere near an agreement, they're just stuck on a few major provisions.

[RicFlairOne]

Even with a clean bill of health Bradford is a thin qb that isn't that mobile. Looking at his frame I just don't see how he's gonna take many hits at all. As a qb have no faith that he's a franchise qb none at all solid arm accurate lacks intagibles to be a leader IMO.

If we're taking a qb just because he's projected as the best qb and tie up that sorta money in him then we'll set this franchise back bigtime.

It's all a crapshoot at this point anyway. However, I certainly trust Allen / Shanahan to make the right decision. We don't know about his intangibles, but he has a winning record in college and comes across as a smart young man IMO. That's what the interview process is for. Allen / Shanny will compile all of the information (Dr. Andrews medical opinion, individual workouts, Bradford visit and interview, etc.) and decide if he he worth the risk or not. He may not be a sure thing, but no one knows that for sure anyway about any player entering the NFL. But I say if they take him and groom him, Shanahan will put him in a position to be successful down the road.

[RicFlairOne]

[quote=akhhorus;1297831]I think you should go watch some more film on Bradford. His build is about the same as Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, etc. He's got very good mobility and a good arm.


Look at Brees too -- he's not exactly a physical specimen either!!

[Moe]

I agree, but Portis wouldn't have said what he said about 2010 unless he was 95+% sure that he would be the starting Rb in 2010 here in DC. As I keep saying about Portis: its all about respect with him. When he doesn't respect the head coach, he runs his mouth and takes practice off as much as possible. When he respects his coach, there isn't a harder worker on and off the field. And we know he respects Shanny(and Bobby Turner). Is it possible that Portis sours on both of them during the preseason/2010 season? Sure, but its extremely unlikely.

First off, good job. Like many of us, I find these prognostications of yours to be very interesting and obviously a great initiator of discussion. Well done and thanks for putting in the time.

Re: Portis- I think one thing that might factor into his status is the fact that he's still not 100% over the concussion. I don't think he'd walk before going through TC and into the pre-season, but what happens to his dollars if he were to call it a career, say after the 2nd pre-season game? I personally think he's going to put in the work this off-season and come in prepared but I'm concerned that his style of play could aggrivate the concussion symptoms and possibly make him gun shy. The fact that it's been months and he's still a little shaky makes me think his time is short.

[Moe]

i understand and agree with EVERY reason you say.,, i am just saying, there is no business model for the NFL that has been in use for the last 50 years, cap or no cap, that has the NFL teams trading wholesale numbers of players.. it simply isnt like Baseball that way.. even NHL has more trades

what i think will quash a lot of prospective trades is the fear by teams that some kind of punitive rules will be put in place retroactively. plus, just about every team, given the choice, will go cheaper, younger, if given the chance.
careers are so short,on the average, that teams simply dont want a player with mileage on him

i am not going to re fill your Bourbon stock by betting with you, but i will say that except for maybe a little flurry, there will be very little more trading this year than average..

I wonder if a few teams make a flurry of name moves that kick off a domino affect and we see a busy off-season. I agree that it's certainly not the norm for teams to be so active and by and large conservativism wins, but with the prospect of clearing bad deals and the potential for a lot of cheaper talent being available, it might be too enticing for even the cheaper/smaller market teams to not get involved.

[shally]

I wonder if a few teams make a flurry of name moves that kick off a domino affect and we see a busy off-season. I agree that it's certainly not the norm for teams to be so active and by and large conservativism wins, but with the prospect of clearing bad deals and the potential for a lot of cheaper talent being available, it might be too enticing for even the cheaper/smaller market teams to not get involved.

i will believe it, when it actually starts to happen

[Moe]

I don't see any owner agreeing to fully guaranteed contracts ever. They'll lock out the players before they agree to that. It might effect the big money teams more, but every team would be stuck with massive deals sooner or later.

Couldn't agree more and one only needs to look at how dire the financials are for the NBA to see how bad guaranteed contracts are for any league. I also think that there's enough guaranteed TV money to give the owners a slight bit of leverage in terms of a lockout, but ultimately these guys won't sacrifice thier cash cow and will get something hammered out. The NFL could surivive and bounceback from a lockout but there needs to be some significant corrections across the board. The game is getting too expensive and there are too many other viable (read:cheaper and for many, better) options out there and without adjustments for fans who want to go to games, then owners will get pinched more and more and the next negotitaions could be ugly.

[akhhorus]

Look at Brees too -- he's not exactly a physical specimen either!!

Yeah, but Bradford is about the same size as Tom Brady. I don't of anyone who thinks he's not big enough.

[shally]

Couldn't agree more and one only needs to look at how dire the financials are for the NBA to see how bad guaranteed contracts are for any league. I also think that there's enough guaranteed TV money to give the owners a slight bit of leverage in terms of a lockout, but ultimately these guys won't sacrifice thier cash cow and will get something hammered out. The NFL could surivive and bounceback from a lockout but there needs to be some significant corrections across the board. The game is getting too expensive and there are too many other viable (read:cheaper and for many, better) options out there and without adjustments for fans who want to go to games, then owners will get pinched more and more and the next negotitaions could be ugly.

have you been to a MLB game recently ? NBA game ? sheesh.. ridiculous.

cant say anything about the NHL because i havent been to a hockey game in ages.. about the ONLY inexpensive professional sport these days is Minor League baseball

fans are getting squeezed everywhere. plus, my DTV bill has doubled since i started subscribing

[shally]

Yeah, but Bradford is about the same size as Tom Brady. I don't of anyone who thinks he's not big enough.

Brady was absolutely wimpy looking when he came out of college.. the ONLY issue with Bradford is his recovery from his shoulder injury, and whether he can take the pounding he will get in the NFL

[Moe]

have you been to a MLB game recently ? NBA game ? sheesh.. ridiculous.

cant say anything about the NHL because i havent been to a hockey game in ages.. about the ONLY inexpensive professional sport these days is Minor League baseball

fans are getting squeezed everywhere. plus, my DTV bill has doubled since i started subscribing

Went to an NBA game two years ago and that was primarily due to getting hooked up with some tremendous seats. And while enjoyable, not enough to make up for the expense that season tickets (or any related package) would command.

As it pertains to the NFL, it seems that the Cowboys being unable to land naming sponsorship and the new NY stadium having real trouble selling PSL's and season tickets (or listen to the gripes from any local fanbase) says a lot about how real this problem is. Toss in the increased blackouts this year and the prospect of franchise relocation (Jax/St. Lou) and the indicators are there.

[oldskinfan]

I think the bottom half of our roster will change a lot for better depth and the vet casualties will include ARE, Griff, and others you mention.

But Jason Taylor? No thanks. I don't think he really would want to be here anyways. He wants to stay in Florida, and if no one will have him, so be it. He will really retire.

[sinskin]

I haven't read this entire thread so I apologize up front....

The only thing that scares me in both scenarios is the Center.... Who is this guy and can he really handle the job?

[colkurtz]

There is a percentage of the fans that just doesn't want to take a chance on a QB with the #4. How are we ever going to get a franchise QB?

You've just got to roll the dice and take your chances. Then don't take 5 seasons to decide if he's "the chosen one".

[dj_stouty]

Agree with the above. Time to make our risky bet with the #4 our the next franchise QB.

Akh - as you can guess, I'd be very happy with Long here...in fact, I think he would win over this fanbase as one of those "true Redskins". Hard work ethic...never gets in trouble...and never-ending motor. He is wasting away in St. Louis right now; and he would be an amazing fit for our new 3-4 defense. That being said; I personally haven't heard any of the Spags vs. Long rumors. Any links on this? I'd be curious to read as I'm strongly following Chris' career...

[SkinsGuru]

I think you should go watch some more film on Bradford. His build is about the same as Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, etc. He's got very good mobility and a good arm.

and is EXTREMELY accurate and is said to be a GREAT field general and leader . . .

[akhhorus]

Agree with the above. Time to make our risky bet with the #4 our the next franchise QB.

Akh - as you can guess, I'd be very happy with Long here...in fact, I think he would win over this fanbase as one of those "true Redskins". Hard work ethic...never gets in trouble...and never-ending motor. He is wasting away in St. Louis right now; and he would be an amazing fit for our new 3-4 defense. That being said; I personally haven't heard any of the Spags vs. Long rumors. Any links on this? I'd be curious to read as I'm strongly following Chris' career...

I'll have to dig through my notes and shoot you a PM if/when I can find the links for this, but I'm not pulling this out of my butt, I've been reading/hearing a lot of chatter about how they think he's a 3-4 DE and basically useless in Spags' system.

[redcayman]

There is a percentage of the fans that just doesn't want to take a chance on a QB with the #4. How are we ever going to get a franchise QB?

You've just got to roll the dice and take your chances. Then don't take 5 seasons to decide if he's "the chosen one".

What I don't get is how is this the only chance to get a "franchise QB"? Qb's are found all up and down the draft just because we have the 4th pick this year many are making out like this is our only shot at getting a QB and if we don't get one we are screwed for the next 5 years. I really believe franchise QB's are made with the talent around them. When you have a good running game, good Oline, a Qb can develop into a franchise QB.

[akhhorus]

What I don't get is how is this the only chance to get a "franchise QB"? Qb's are found all up and down the draft just because we have the 4th pick this year many are making out like this is our only shot at getting a QB and if we don't get one we are screwed for the next 5 years. I really believe franchise QB's are made with the talent around them. When you have a good running game, good Oline, a Qb can develop into a franchise QB.

I would agree with a lot of this, but would add that "franchise qbs" happen when you have a Qb in the right situation. Not just talent or offense, but also style of play vs where they play. You can't play in a cold weather city and expect a weak armed pac-10 QB to thrive in that situation, regardless of the talent you put around them. in the redskins' case, they play about 8ish cold weather games outdoor a year, so whomever the next QB prospect is, they have to be:
1-Strong armed and by that I mean able to throw a 12 yard out in the Meadowlands in December.
2-Cold weather experience
3-Loud opposing stadium experience(ie big conference and big program rival)

[shally]

I'll have to dig through my notes and shoot you a PM if/when I can find the links for this, but I'm not pulling this out of my butt, I've been reading/hearing a lot of chatter about how they think he's a 3-4 DE and basically useless in Spags' system.

traditionally 3/4 def ends are much larger-- about 300 pounds.. i would think that peppers is a far better fit for this position than long.. even someone like carricker would seem to be a better fit

[akhhorus]

traditionally 3/4 def ends are much larger-- about 300 pounds.. i would think that peppers is a far better fit for this position than long.. even someone like carricker would seem to be a better fit

He's listed at around 280, that's close to Luis Castillo(one of the best 3/4 DEs in the game) or Brett Keisel's size. He played that role in college also.

[akhhorus]

Another name to keep in mind for the skins to target(if he's cut) is Willis McGahee. I could see Shanny going with Portis for 200ish carries and McGahee for 125 in the backfield.

[dj_stouty]

I'll have to dig through my notes and shoot you a PM if/when I can find the links for this, but I'm not pulling this out of my butt, I've been reading/hearing a lot of chatter about how they think he's a 3-4 DE and basically useless in Spags' system.

I wasn't suggesting you made this up...I was just curious to read more about it. I thought "the great" spags would find a way to make the best use of his talent, but I guess not...

[skins4life24]

traditionally 3/4 def ends are much larger-- about 300 pounds.. i would think that peppers is a far better fit for this position than long.. even someone like carricker would seem to be a better fit

In genreal you are correct, usually the ends are much larger when it is there primary job to take up blockers, however Chris Long is that rare combination of large enough to take on a blocker but can also generate a pass rush as well when called upon. At least that was the way he did it in college in a 3-4 system.(who knows in the NFL)

[shally]

Another name to keep in mind for the skins to target(if he's cut) is Willis McGahee. I could see Shanny going with Portis for 200ish carries and McGahee for 125 in the backfield.

another good call.. we will see what his demands are relative to C Taylor's

[Hr fan]

Thanks Akh. There are 2 kinds of threads this year it seems - feelings (I hate JC for instance) and thought provoking (and you are the unrivaled master of this kind of thread).

A lot has happened in this thread, so I'll ask questions rather than rehash.

1. IMO the reality of life is that the rich get richer. Using a baseball analogy, the Yankees have a better chance over the long run because they spend more than the Marlins. Coupling this with what has happened to Johnny Damon there may be a new breeze blowing for most teams, and players. The players will have to get used to the cash cow giving less as will the owners, and this really will fuel contracts to be deemed unacceptable, not just declining player performance at the salary level. Under these conditions a free spender like danny will be presented with lots of big names, and he will be more willing than most to spend while having no idea about how talents fit scheme. Will he do things that the new fo may not want but would then have to cope with?

2. You mentioned culture change as the driving force for Shanallahan, and it should be. Ordinarily this means my way or the highway. However, CP and others have gotten off track, but you point out that there are many good reasons to possibly allow wiggle room. IMO this is self-defeating. Your thoughts?

3. Is there a chance for a sign-and-trade variant here? Take Dockery for instance. He doersn't fit, say, but in trade still has larger numbers. Using the Damon example would he facilitate a trade by signing a contract more to the desire of the new team instead of being cut, and will such actions help both trade volume and the return the recontracting team might expect?

BTW is there a listing of players due significant roster bonuses etc. to be paid pre-draft? This could be interesting reading I think.

Again, thanks for your hard work.

[akhhorus]

Thanks Akh. There are 2 kinds of threads this year it seems - feelings (I hate JC for instance) and thought provoking (and you are the unrivaled master of this kind of thread).

Thanks man. With threads like this, I'm hoping for long conversations between everyone about the topics I bring up.

A lot has happened in this thread, so I'll ask questions rather than rehash.

1. IMO the reality of life is that the rich get richer. Using a baseball analogy, the Yankees have a better chance over the long run because they spend more than the Marlins. Coupling this with what has happened to Johnny Damon there may be a new breeze blowing for most teams, and players. The players will have to get used to the cash cow giving less as will the owners, and this really will fuel contracts to be deemed unacceptable, not just declining player performance at the salary level. Under these conditions a free spender like danny will be presented with lots of big names, and he will be more willing than most to spend while having no idea about how talents fit scheme. Will he do things that the new fo may not want but would then have to cope with?

I think that Shanny/Allen make the decisions now. I do think that there's going to be some disappointment to the players if they think that an uncapped NFL is going to boost salaries, if anything its going to drop salaries as team rid themselves of bad contracts and don't have to deal with the salary floor. Thats going to be the biggest impetus to figure out a deal.

2. You mentioned culture change as the driving force for Shanallahan, and it should be. Ordinarily this means my way or the highway. However, CP and others have gotten off track, but you point out that there are many good reasons to possibly allow wiggle room. IMO this is self-defeating. Your thoughts?


I think the problem under Zorn was that there were no hard boundaries for the players' conduct on and off the field. If a player quit on the season or just was incapable to do his job, it was doubtful that anyone would hold them accountable. Blache would bench his favorites(he would bench players who freelanced, regardless of how they actually did on the field) and Zorn was reluctant to make any moves that might rock the boat. I think the "change of culture" with Shanny is going to be an end to this. If a player is half-assing it out there or is incapable of doing the job, he's on the bench. Simple as that. And I think that Shanny will tolerate players like Portis and Haynesworth..as long as they're producing.

3. Is there a chance for a sign-and-trade variant here? Take Dockery for instance. He doersn't fit, say, but in trade still has larger numbers. Using the Damon example would he facilitate a trade by signing a contract more to the desire of the new team instead of being cut, and will such actions help both trade volume and the return the recontracting team might expect?


Thats possible with the RFAs this offseason, but why would you bother? Just work out a deal with the team that holds their rights and sign them directly to the contract.

BTW is there a listing of players due significant roster bonuses etc. to be paid pre-draft? This could be interesting reading I think.


Off the top of my head:
Moss
Randle El
Carter
Griffin
Betts
Hall


Again, thanks for your hard work.

Thanks man.

[shally]

Thanks man. With threads like this, I'm hoping for long conversations between everyone about the topics I bring up.









Thats possible with the RFAs this offseason, but why would you bother? Just work out a deal with the team that holds their rights and sign them directly to the contract.







Thanks man.

only problem with that pathway is if the teams cannot agree on compensation AFTER the contract is signed by the player, the team is on the hook for the league mandated compensation.. i dont see anyone giving us a 1,3 for Campbell unless they are brain dead inthe front office..

you have to agree on compensation BEFORE the player signs

[akhhorus]

only problem with that pathway is if the teams cannot agree on compensation AFTER the contract is signed by the player, the team is on the hook for the league mandated compensation.. i dont see anyone giving us a 1,3 for Campbell unless they are brain dead inthe front office..

you have to agree on compensation BEFORE the player signs

Obviously, yeah. Which means that the sign/trade idea is an unneeded extra step.

[Hr fan]

Obviously, yeah. Which means that the sign/trade idea is an unneeded extra step.

I thought a sign and trade happened after teams had agreed on compensation, but needed contract renegotiation before accepting a player in a trade. Agreed this often means an increase to the player in baseball, but not so much in basketball. What I was refering to is much less RFAs who have already signed a contract so are out of it, but more vets facing being cut and then trying to find a job. Mightn't such vets prefer to renegotiate, and the old team be willing to facilitate the process, in order to get something rather than nothing? And the signing team profits by being able to select the player they want without getting into competition.

[shally]

I thought a sign and trade happened after teams had agreed on compensation, but needed contract renegotiation before accepting a player in a trade. Agreed this often means an increase to the player in baseball, but not so much in basketball. What I was refering to is much less RFAs who have already signed a contract so are out of it, but more vets facing being cut and then trying to find a job. Mightn't such vets prefer to renegotiate, and the old team be willing to facilitate the process, in order to get something rather than nothing? And the signing team profits by being able to select the player they want without getting into competition.

we are heading into uncharted waters this offseason.. nobody knows what will happen, but the odds are very high that teams will dump lots of high priced contracts

[Hr fan]

+1. Just hope danny doesn't get into a feeding frenzy. We need a plan and the patience to stick to it.

[akhhorus]

I thought a sign and trade happened after teams had agreed on compensation, but needed contract renegotiation before accepting a player in a trade. Agreed this often means an increase to the player in baseball, but not so much in basketball. What I was refering to is much less RFAs who have already signed a contract so are out of it, but more vets facing being cut and then trying to find a job. Mightn't such vets prefer to renegotiate, and the old team be willing to facilitate the process, in order to get something rather than nothing? And the signing team profits by being able to select the player they want without getting into competition.

The problem with that is a matter of structure. If you sign the player to a contract with a signing bonus, the team has to pay out that bonus immediately, then trade the player. If you make the "signing bonus" as a roster bonus to happen quickly after the deal, that might work, but if the player fails the physical, you're stuck with that contract.

Its just easier for everyone involved to either:
-Have the player negotiate a new deal with his new team after the trade goes down
or
-Let the player negotiate with other teams to reach an agreement, then deal him, then he signs the new contract.

[SkinsGuru]

another good call.. we will see what his demands are relative to C Taylor's

What about Willie Parker??? His is an UFA this year correct??? Any interest????

Or someone like Clifton Smith from TB a decent option. He is a great return man with a ton of speed. AND in limited starts has 3 100 yard games . . .

EDIT: I must have Clifton Smith mixed up with somebody else. Great return man, but he isn't much at RB . . . i will figure out who i was thinking of . . . came in for a team at the end of the 08 season when the majority of their RB's were out via injury . . . had 2 or 3 straight 100 yard games . . . before the other RB's got injured he never seen the field as a RB, but was a great return guy . . . then in 09 with all of the teasms RB's back healthy he only returned kicsk/punts again . . . just can't think who it is . . .

[akhhorus]

What about Willie Parker??? His is an UFA this year correct??? Any interest????


He is a UFA, and I would take him as a backup to Portis(the 125ish carries a year idea).

[skins4life24]

Are you worried that putting AH in the DE spot for a 3-4 would be under utilizing him (as you had in one of your tracks)?

[BurgundyNGold]

+1. Just hope danny doesn't get into a feeding frenzy. We need a plan and the patience to stick to it.
A plan can be executed quickly, it just has to be consistent. An uncapped year really does help accelerate things. But you can't just go out and buy a car because it's shiny without any consideration about how it will fit in the garage. That's been our biggest problem with Danny.

[akhhorus]

Are you worried that putting AH in the DE spot for a 3-4 would be under utilizing him (as you had in one of your tracks)?

Not really. Haynesworth's job is to tie up as many blocker to free up blitzers, thats what he complained about late in the season: that Blache wouldn't blitz and he couldn't help the pass rush. Putting him at 3-4 DE or NT would maximize his impact on the team.

[BurgundyNGold]

Not really. Haynesworth's job is to tie up as many blocker to free up blitzers, thats what he complained about late in the season: that Blache wouldn't blitz and he couldn't help the pass rush. Putting him at 3-4 DE or NT would maximize his impact on the team.
Depending on the kind of 3-4 they run, Haynesworth may or may not be happy at DT. If they run a Wade Phillips 3-4 that expects the DL to get pressure as well as contain then absolutely. Theo Ratliff has nothing on Haynesworth, who could be a Jamal Williams type NT. But if they try to make him a Ted Washington, as in the Parcells, Belichick style of 3-4 that insistes that the DL simply eat up blockers for the LB, then he's going to be miserable.

[akhhorus]

Depending on the kind of 3-4 they run, Haynesworth may or may not be happy at DT. If they run a Wade Phillips 3-4 that expects the DL to get pressure as well as contain then absolutely. Theo Ratliff has nothing on Haynesworth, who could be a Jamal Williams type NT. But if they try to make him a Ted Washington, as in the Parcells, Belichick style of 3-4 that insistes that the DL simply eat up blockers for the LB, then he's going to be miserable.

Theo Ratliff? (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/theo_ratliff/index.html)

I think its more likely that they go after an NT and put Haynesworth at DE/DT so he can tie up an entire side of an Oline.

[BurgundyNGold]

Theo Ratliff? (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/theo_ratliff/index.html)

I think its more likely that they go after an NT and put Haynesworth at DE/DT so he can tie up an entire side of an Oline.
LMAO. A meant Theo Huxtable (http://gabbyhooch.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/theodore.jpg).

Agree on that. He would make a better DL, but it would be awfully tempting to put him at NT.

[akhhorus]

LMAO. A meant Theo Huxtable (http://gabbyhooch.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/theodore.jpg).

Agree on that. He would make a better DL, but it would be awfully tempting to put him at NT.

Well, I think that they could get a Ryan Pickett-type and rotate Haynesworth to NT on obvious rushing downs.

[Keino]

Theo Ratliff? (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/theo_ratliff/index.html)

I think its more likely that they go after an NT and put Haynesworth at DE/DT so he can tie up an entire side of an Oline.

The problem is that he will still be responsible for 2 gaps. That is not where his strength lies. He is a 1 Gapper and there is no way in hell I want to see him in a 0 Technique.

[mr.moss]

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=773)

Guff on!

Pretty good.

[mr.moss]

Pretty good.



So we been arguing about Candle and how a rookie couldn't do better but all difference aiside you want Bradford?.

-Keep Hall
-Keep Dockery

Sign Halmtion
Sign that Phalos guy or whatever
Sign Kevin Manwae to upgrade our horrible center positon .
Sign Kevin Walter or Antonio Bryant.


If we trade Candle or who ever else for a 2nd or 3rd than we can pick up two starting tackles with our current 2nd and the pick we traded for. Sam Bradford is a good prospect . I think LB can come with a guy like A.Thomas from the Pats who shouldn't and wouldn't cost alot because Im sure Porter-Kirk-Dansby would want big contracts.

[mr.moss]

Depending on the kind of 3-4 they run, Haynesworth may or may not be happy at DT. If they run a Wade Phillips 3-4 that expects the DL to get pressure as well as contain then absolutely. Theo Ratliff has nothing on Haynesworth, who could be a Jamal Williams type NT. But if they try to make him a Ted Washington, as in the Parcells, Belichick style of 3-4 that insistes that the DL simply eat up blockers for the LB, then he's going to be miserable.

I don't really think we are running an all 3-4 this year tho ...been all talk but all we herd was Haslett saying this team can be good with a 4-3/3-4. I can see a hybrid of both and Jim hasn't used the 3-4 alot since 99. Unless I'm wrong and he used it in the UFL league but I think we will be a 4-3. I can see the Redskins if anything sign Williams from the Steelers(NT) to come in if we did a 3-4.

[csquared]

So we been arguing about Candle and how a rookie couldn't do better but all difference aiside you want Bradford?.

-Keep Hall
-Keep Dockery

Sign Halmtion
Sign that Phalos guy or whatever
Sign Kevin Manwae to upgrade our horrible center positon .
Sign Kevin Walter or Antonio Bryant.


If we trade Candle or who ever else for a 2nd or 3rd than we can pick up two starting tackles with our current 2nd and the pick we traded for. Sam Bradford is a good prospect . I think LB can come with a guy like A.Thomas from the Pats who shouldn't and wouldn't cost alot because Im sure Porter-Kirk-Dansby would want big contracts.
Thomas wont come cheap. And who the heck is Kirk?

I don't really think we are running an all 3-4 this year tho ...been all talk but all we herd was Haslett saying this team can be good with a 4-3/3-4. I can see a hybrid of both and Jim hasn't used the 3-4 alot since 99. Unless I'm wrong and he used it in the UFL league but I think we will be a 4-3. I can see the Redskins if anything sign Williams from the Steelers(NT) to come in if we did a 3-4.
Williams who?

[skins4life24]

Not really. Haynesworth's job is to tie up as many blocker to free up blitzers, thats what he complained about late in the season: that Blache wouldn't blitz and he couldn't help the pass rush. Putting him at 3-4 DE or NT would maximize his impact on the team.

I just feel like putting our best player at one of the ends is going to allow teams to scheme around him more (i.e. run away from him). I would rather see him in the middle of the 3-4 at NT where i think he would be a force on every play.

[shally]

I just feel like putting our best player at one of the ends is going to allow teams to scheme around him more (i.e. run away from him). I would rather see him in the middle of the 3-4 at NT where i think he would be a force on every play.

that assumes the doubtful concept that he will EVEN be in there most of the time, and give effort on every play..

we might be better off with a guy like Pickett playing that position

[akhhorus]

So we been arguing about Candle and how a rookie couldn't do better but all difference aiside you want Bradford?.


Campbell is only going to stay here if we give him a big long term deal, we're not going to give him a big long term deal.


Sign Halmtion
Sign that Phalos guy or whatever
Sign Kevin Manwae to upgrade our horrible center positon .
Sign Kevin Walter or Antonio Bryant.


I....dont know what you're talking about here except the WRs.

that assumes the doubtful concept that he will EVEN be in there most of the time, and give effort on every play..

we might be better off with a guy like Pickett playing that position

If the new skins brain trust question his work ethic even a little bit, this is the year to get rid of him. He's a great player and he was great for the skins last year.

[skins4life24]

that assumes the doubtful concept that he will EVEN be in there most of the time, and give effort on every play..

we might be better off with a guy like Pickett playing that position

I agree there are always intangebles, but when ever possible I want our best players playing positions where they can be the most usefull to us/disadventagous to the other team (anti Blache lol). So even if that means a rotation I would still like to see AH there more often than not.

[DaveKShape]

i do like the idea of haynesworth at DE as opposed to NT... especially if we hold onto anthony montgomery and are able to put him at NT (assuming we don't run into another more suitable candidate.

[mr.moss]

Thomas wont come cheap. And who the heck is Kirk?(Morrison)


Williams who?

^^ my bad not Williams* Hampton*

[mr.moss]

Campbell is only going to stay here if we give him a big long term deal, we're not going to give him a big long term deal.




I....dont know what you're talking about here except the WRs.



If the new skins brain trust question his work ethic even a little bit, this is the year to get rid of him. He's a great player and he was great for the skins last year.
Fair enough.

Hampton- NT from Steelers

Tony Pasholo ( The 9ers guy who is rumor to come here ( the tackle).

Kevin Manwae( Titans 39 year old Center who is gonna be a free agent but still playing at an elite level.).

Basically the guys I ment.

[akhhorus]

Fair enough.

Hampton- NT from Steelers

Tony Pasholo ( The 9ers guy who is rumor to come here ( the tackle).

Kevin Manwae( Titans 39 year old Center who is gonna be a free agent but still playing at an elite level.).

Basically the guys I ment.

The Steelers would be fools to let Hampton go anywhere. Pashos(thats who I think you mean), is a backup. We could do much better. Kevin Mawae is on his last legs, I wouldn't sign him.

[shally]

The Steelers would be fools to let Hampton go anywhere. Pashos(thats who I think you mean), is a backup. We could do much better. Kevin Mawae is on his last legs, I wouldn't sign him.

without a "floor" all bets are off as to what the poorer (money, not record) teams do to reduce their costs.. i can see teams like pittsburgh and buffalo dumping players by the handfuls in this one year window to do so (watch whether the Steelers make a reasonable effort to re sign Clark).. when even rich teams like the Giants and Dolphins are dumping productive players because of salary you know there will be blood in the water

it will be very interesting to watch what Jerry Jones does with Flozell Adams-- a guy who has been very productive for a long time, but who represents very poor long term value due to age/salary

i predict it will take a huge amount of restraint by allen and shanahan to keep Snyder from whipping out his checkbook.. but, in a year when we lack draft picks from a full hand, this will represent a stroke of luck to fill players at positions we might not be able to with a cap in place.. linebacker/corner-safety/returner/reserve RB/ reserve OL might have to come from that route..

[mr.moss]

The Steelers would be fools to let Hampton go anywhere. Pashos(thats who I think you mean), is a backup. We could do much better. Kevin Mawae is on his last legs, I wouldn't sign him.

Fair enough.I'll agree to what your saying so the best thing we can do is trade bait Campbell and one of our safeties to gain more picks. I hear that Bob Saunders or Beatha from the Colts are gonna let one of them go. More than likely it could be Bob since he has alot of injuries and is getting up in age but I wouldn't mind signing him. Darren Sharper I wouldn't mind either.


Skins should look into Kevin Manwae for atleast one year deal since Casey Robach isn't that good and is a free agent right now. Would atleast give us a better upgrade at center for who ever we got till we groom a younger and potential starting center.

[BurgundyNGold]

Fair enough.I'll agree to what your saying so the best thing we can do is trade bait Campbell and one of our safeties to gain more picks. I hear that Bob Saunders or Beatha from the Colts are gonna let one of them go. More than likely it could be Bob since he has alot of injuries and is getting up in age but I wouldn't mind signing him. Darren Sharper I wouldn't mind either.


Skins should look into Kevin Manwae for atleast one year deal since Casey Robach isn't that good and is a free agent right now. Would atleast give us a better upgrade at center for who ever we got till we groom a younger and potential starting center.
I agree with Akh on his assessments of the other two players but I think that Mawae stil has some gas left in the tank.

Maybe it's just me but our OL has gotten worse every year that Casey Rabach has been the C. Sure, age and injury along the OL has something to do with it (along with the lack of depth) but he just doesn't make the right calls consistently enough even when he isn't getting beaten himself.

Kevin Mawae is the kind of player who makes your OL better. Talent wise, Mawae on his last legs is better than Rabach and mentally, he's one of the best C in the league. I wouldn't look at him as a long term solution but when you have to rebuild your entire OL, a 1 (maybe 2) year stop gap upgrade at C isn't a bad option.

[skin4ever]

If the new skins brain trust question his work ethic even a little bit, this is the year to get rid of him. He's a great player and he was great for the skins last year.

I dont know that its that easy. Cutting him is a lot of money(40 million or so) for one year of service ( i dont know that DS is willing to eat that pill) and i dont think his contract makes him tradeable, even in an uncapped year. What r your thoughts of what he could command in the trade market and where. I know the bucs were interessted, but their owners tend to stick tothe cap floor minimum.

[shally]

I dont know that its that easy. Cutting him is a lot of money(40 million or so) for one year of service ( i dont know that DS is willing to eat that pill) and i dont think his contract makes him tradeable, even in an uncapped year. What r your thoughts of what he could command in the trade market and where. I know the bucs were interessted, but their owners tend to stick tothe cap floor minimum.

despite all the drama, whenever he was out there, AH was simply the best player on the field.. you cant take that away from him.. plus, i think he played on about 60-70 % of the snaps.. again, that has to be around his target anyway

no telling what he could do if he actually got in shape and if the coaches schemed to get the best out of him..

[akhhorus]

I dont know that its that easy. Cutting him is a lot of money(40 million or so) for one year of service ( i dont know that DS is willing to eat that pill) and i dont think his contract makes him tradeable, even in an uncapped year. What r your thoughts of what he could command in the trade market and where. I know the bucs were interessted, but their owners tend to stick tothe cap floor minimum.

The Bucs' owners have major debt problems, they're going to dump salary whereever possible. I don't think he's tradeable, and I wouldn't get rid of him.

despite all the drama, whenever he was out there, AH was simply the best player on the field.. you cant take that away from him.. plus, i think he played on about 60-70 % of the snaps.. again, that has to be around his target anyway

no telling what he could do if he actually got in shape and if the coaches schemed to get the best out of him..

I think it was the latter and not the former. Haynesworth could be in better shape, but I think he(and Jim Washburn) figured out that he's better playing 70ish% of the snaps at the size he's at, rather than playing 90% 30 lbs lighter.

[akhhorus]

without a "floor" all bets are off as to what the poorer (money, not record) teams do to reduce their costs.. i can see teams like pittsburgh and buffalo dumping players by the handfuls in this one year window to do so (watch whether the Steelers make a reasonable effort to re sign Clark).. when even rich teams like the Giants and Dolphins are dumping productive players because of salary you know there will be blood in the water

The Steelers are telling anyone who will listen that they're going to retain their players, and do little else. They'll keep Hampton I'm sure.

it will be very interesting to watch what Jerry Jones does with Flozell Adams-- a guy who has been very productive for a long time, but who represents very poor long term value due to age/salary


If I had to guess, I think Dallas is going to cut Adams, Marion Barber(I wouldn't mind Barber as a #2 back to Portis btw), Roy Williams, Newman, Spears and Olshansky(who was bad this year imo).

i predict it will take a huge amount of restraint by allen and shanahan to keep Snyder from whipping out his checkbook.. but, in a year when we lack draft picks from a full hand, this will represent a stroke of luck to fill players at positions we might not be able to with a cap in place.. linebacker/corner-safety/returner/reserve RB/ reserve OL might have to come from that route..

I think Allen/Shanny will tell Snyder is about finding the right players now while transitioning the roster. I think that signing a big name is going to happen(I think it'll be Morrison) so that the fans think that progress is going on.

Fair enough.I'll agree to what your saying so the best thing we can do is trade bait Campbell and one of our safeties to gain more picks. I hear that Bob Saunders or Beatha from the Colts are gonna let one of them go. More than likely it could be Bob since he has alot of injuries and is getting up in age but I wouldn't mind signing him. Darren Sharper I wouldn't mind either.


I love Sanders, but he just can't stay on the field.

Skins should look into Kevin Manwae for atleast one year deal since Casey Robach isn't that good and is a free agent right now. Would atleast give us a better upgrade at center for who ever we got till we groom a younger and potential starting center.

We can find a different Center who's not going to retire in a year.

[skin4ever]

The Bucs' owners have major debt problems, they're going to dump salary whereever possible. I don't think he's tradeable, and I wouldn't get rid of him.


I agree. He's a stud and has to be accounted for every play hes out there. I wouldnt trade or cut him unless he becomes more of a problem than hes worth. Hopefully he takes this as a fresh start from Blache and will buy into the philosophy.

[lorimike]

Campbell is only going to stay here if we give him a big long term deal, we're not going to give him a big long term deal.




I....dont know what you're talking about here except the WRs.



If the new skins brain trust question his work ethic even a little bit, this is the year to get rid of him. He's a great player and he was great for the skins last year.

If it is an uncapped year Campbell he doesn't have a choice. He would be restricted. Are you saying someone would be willing to trade for Cambell. What would we get?

[Sean T RIP]

Its good to have wet dreams like the one when you think anyone will give a 2nd round choice for Jason Campbell

[akhhorus]

If it is an uncapped year Campbell he doesn't have a choice. He would be restricted. Are you saying someone would be willing to trade for Cambell. What would we get?

Its good to have wet dreams like the one when you think anyone will give a 2nd round choice for Jason Campbell

He's the premier QB on the market. Orton's probably staying in Denver, Philly won't deal Kolb or McNabb until next year, no one wants Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn(probably because they suck and blow). If I'm a team like Buffalo, Seattle, Cleveland or San Francisco and the choice is:
Option 1: Draft Clausen and then another player with their 2nd pick(2nd 1st in Seattle/San Fran's case)
or
Option 2: Draft a playmaker like Haden, Bulaga, McClain, etc etc and give up a 2nd for Campbell(who you won't have to wait 2-3 years to develop).

Thats not much of a choice. Seattle and San Fran could give up their 2nd to the Skins for Campbell and use both 1sts on fixing other areas.

[lorimike]

He's the premier QB on the market. Orton's probably staying in Denver, Philly won't deal Kolb or McNabb until next year, no one wants Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn(probably because they suck and blow). If I'm a team like Buffalo, Seattle, Cleveland or San Francisco and the choice is:
Option 1: Draft Clausen and then another player with their 2nd pick(2nd 1st in Seattle/San Fran's case)
or
Option 2: Draft a playmaker like Haden, Bulaga, McClain, etc etc and give up a 2nd for Campbell(who you won't have to wait 2-3 years to develop).

Thats not much of a choice. Seattle and San Fran could give up their 2nd to the Skins for Campbell and use both 1sts on fixing other areas.<<<

If Campbell isn't the long term answer I guess we my as well cash him out for a pick. I can't believe anyone would give us a 2nd for him. There really is no way around the fact that we will suck next year. If it is Clausen or Bradford I really have no interest in watching them play behind this line until we get more pieces in place. So the question is what retread is going to be our QB next season?

[akhhorus]

<<<

If Campbell isn't the long term answer I guess we my as well cash him out for a pick. I can't believe anyone would give us a 2nd for him. There really is no way around the fact that we will suck next year. If it is Clausen or Bradford I really have no interest in watching them play behind this line until we get more pieces in place. So the question is what retread is going to be our QB next season?

I don't know why anyone would think that we wouldn't suck next year, but I don't think thats a bad thing. If we sign a tackling dummy like Kitna or Pennington for 2010, draft Bradford+an OT like Jason Fox, we'll still probably be 6-10ish next year only we'll have a shot at another quality draftee in 2011.

[lorimike]

1(4): Sam Bradford Qb Oklahoma
#2(36): Jason Fox OT Miami
#2(41): Corey Wooten DL Northwestern
#3(67): Kyle Wilson CB Boise State
#3(85): Trevard Lindley CB Kentucky
#3(95): Myron Rolle FS FSU
#4(106): Stafon Johnson RB USC
#5(144): Shawn Lauvao OG Arizona State
#7(214): Joel Nitchman OC Michigan State

That is a really nice draft. The only thing is Kyle Wilson from Boise state is now figuring into the bottom of the first round. We could find a lot of interest in people trading up with our 2nd rounder. That could be a great opportunity to move down in round 2 and pick up another 4th rounder. I really like Myron Rolle- we could use a little more intelligence on our defense.

[akhhorus]

1(4): Sam Bradford Qb Oklahoma
#2(36): Jason Fox OT Miami
#2(41): Corey Wooten DL Northwestern
#3(67): Kyle Wilson CB Boise State
#3(85): Trevard Lindley CB Kentucky
#3(95): Myron Rolle FS FSU
#4(106): Stafon Johnson RB USC
#5(144): Shawn Lauvao OG Arizona State
#7(214): Joel Nitchman OC Michigan State

That is a really nice draft. The only thing is Kyle Wilson from Boise state is now figuring into the bottom of the first round. We could find a lot of interest in people trading up with our 2nd rounder. That could be a great opportunity to move down in round 2 and pick up another 4th rounder. I really like Myron Rolle- we could use a little more intelligence on our defense.

Wilson, Arenas, Ghee and a bunch of others are a dime a dozen as far as I'm concern, I'd take any of them to play ST and slot CB.

[lorimike]

Wilson, Arenas, Ghee and a bunch of others are a dime a dozen as far as I'm concern, I'd take any of them to play ST and slot CB.

Lets just hope that we will be better with our mid round picks than we were last year. I cringed when the passed up better talent to take Barnes, Glenn, and Henson.

[akhhorus]

Lets just hope that we will be better with our mid round picks than we were last year. I cringed when the passed up better talent to take Barnes, Glenn, and Henson.

Different decision maker in charge now.

[lorimike]

I don't think Cody Glenn and Henson were on any other teams boards as draftable players. They were training camp fodder and nothing more. Or Chad Rhinehart the year before was a huge reach as a 3rd rounder- More likely could have picked picked Chad in round 5. Hopefully the new regime is much better at picking talent. We know they are better at coaching.

[skin4ever]

He's the premier QB on the market. Orton's probably staying in Denver, Philly won't deal Kolb or McNabb until next year, no one wants Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn(probably because they suck and blow). If I'm a team like Buffalo, Seattle, Cleveland or San Francisco and the choice is:
Option 1: Draft Clausen and then another player with their 2nd pick(2nd 1st in Seattle/San Fran's case)
or
Option 2: Draft a playmaker like Haden, Bulaga, McClain, etc etc and give up a 2nd for Campbell(who you won't have to wait 2-3 years to develop).

Thats not much of a choice. Seattle and San Fran could give up their 2nd to the Skins for Campbell and use both 1sts on fixing other areas.

What about St.Louis? With Bulger done, they are in trouble and would be looking for someone to come in and pick up immediately as you said above. I dont know what Saunders thought about him(if hes still there), but that would be a potential option as well.

It would be really sick if St. Louis truly doesnt want Suh and we traded our first and JC for their first? It would be win win, as we could in turn trade that pick out for alot more value(if Suh is considered to be the real deal). But thats pipe dreams.

Nice write up by the way, I completely agree that Denvers switch of running scheme only helps our chances of getting some of Shannys old players and will help our oline immediately.

[akhhorus]

What about St.Louis? With Bulger done, they are in trouble and would be looking for someone to come in and pick up immediately as you said above. I dont know what Saunders thought about him(if hes still there), but that would be a potential option as well.


Saunders isn't there. I think St Louis and Buffalo are the two biggest landing spots for him.

It would be really sick if St. Louis truly doesnt want Suh and we traded our first and JC for their first? It would be win win, as we could in turn trade that pick out for alot more value(if Suh is considered to be the real deal). But thats pipe dreams.


I wouldn't do that deal.

[Sean T RIP]

that would be a great draft draft if we had that many pics.. But this is the skins so fairy talils are possible

[mr.moss]

I don't know why anyone would think that we wouldn't suck next year, but I don't think thats a bad thing. If we sign a tackling dummy like Kitna or Pennington for 2010, draft Bradford+an OT like Jason Fox, we'll still probably be 6-10ish next year only we'll have a shot at another quality draftee in 2011.

Good.......looks like you got to your senses and looked into our conversations knowing that keep Candle is foolish.


Im proud of you man.......im sorry for the arguments. Now me and you can get our BLUE VEINS BLUE DUDEEEE FOR ThE CANDLE Era...Era....ERA!! to end.

Bradford is the way to go...............because Obama called and said he only likes winners in D.C

[Fathead]

Good.......looks like you got to your senses and looked into our conversations knowing that keep Candle is foolish.


Im proud of you man.......im sorry for the arguments. Now me and you can get our BLUE VEINS BLUE DUDEEEE FOR ThE CANDLE Era...Era....ERA!! to end.

Bradford is the way to go...............because Obama called and said he only likes winners in D.C




Huh?

[oldskinfan]

Mr. Moss needs skip the next few rounds. I mean WTF w/ the nonsensical posts (in multiple threads)?

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/12/Drunk-Main.jpg

[akhhorus]

Good.......looks like you got to your senses and looked into our conversations knowing that keep Candle is foolish.

Im proud of you man.......im sorry for the arguments. Now me and you can get our BLUE VEINS BLUE DUDEEEE FOR ThE CANDLE Era...Era....ERA!! to end.

Bradford is the way to go...............because Obama called and said he only likes winners in D.C

You're still wrong about Campbell(and apparently need to go to rehab based on your post above). I think you're struggling with the idea that there's a difference between my opinion of players and what I think will happen. We shouldn't dump Campbell, we should fix the offense around him, but I know Shanny isn't going to keep him. So, I don't agree with your rambling nonsense.

[mr.moss]

You're still wrong about Campbell(and apparently need to go to rehab based on your post above). I think you're struggling with the idea that there's a difference between my opinion of players and what I think will happen. We shouldn't dump Campbell, we should fix the offense around him, but I know Shanny isn't going to keep him. So, I don't agree with your rambling nonsense.

So your disagreeing with me and Mike Shanahan . Campbell isn't good ........people keep acting as if we had the worst OL in history but it wasn't as bad as every one made it seem. It was bad but Campbell made it worst.


I mean really..................its a huge rookie mistake when you have alot of time in the pocket and you don't step up at all and end up a fumble for a TD . He isn't good. Will find out how good he really is when March 5th comes. If he's traded than hes good if not than it tells you alot about him. The teams around the league view players who they could be interested in and more than likely Campbell is a back up.....he still has the same mistakes he had in college.

-Cant read the coverage we'll
-Cant read the blitz
-Can't audible in the line very we'll
-Slow throws
-Off accuracy in the long bomb throws.



^^^We'll atleast you know Bradford or Clausen is gonna be here but gurantee you that you'll forget about Campbell when these two come.

[akhhorus]

So your disagreeing with me and Mike Shanahan . Campbell isn't good ........people keep acting as if we had the worst OL in history but it wasn't as bad as every one made it seem. It was bad but Campbell made it worst.

I must have missed when Mike Shanahan had said anything to agree with anything you've said.

The skins' Oline in 2009 was the worst in redskins history and it's not close. I realize you just want to dump on Campbell, but you're the only person who doesn't think that the skins 2009 Offensive line wasn't pathetic.

I mean really..................its a huge rookie mistake when you have alot of time in the pocket and you don't step up at all and end up a fumble for a TD . He isn't good. Will find out how good he really is when March 5th comes. If he's traded than hes good if not than it tells you alot about him. The teams around the league view players who they could be interested in and more than likely Campbell is a back up.....he still has the same mistakes he had in college.


In English please.

-Cant read the coverage we'll
-Cant read the blitz
-Can't audible in the line very we'll
-Slow throws
-Off accuracy in the long bomb throws.


And if any teams signs/trades for him as a starter, your opinions are just that.

[mr.moss]

I must have missed when Mike Shanahan had said anything to agree with anything you've said.
You said you know Shanahan won't keep Campbell. Its because he's not his type of QB plain and simple . No body would re-sign a one year guy who wants


The skins' Oline in 2009 was the worst in redskins history and it's not close. I realize you just want to dump on Campbell, but you're the only person who doesn't think that the skins 2009 Offensive line wasn't pathetic.
IDK about that. The worst I probably see was in 02...I saw the Skins vs Saints and that was probably the worst OL I have ever seen .

And the OL looked as bad when Campbell was on it. Honestly it was a bad OL with injuries every where but it could of been helped. Regardless with time in the pocket Campbell wouldn't have done alot. He's had an OL in 06-07-mid 08 and it wasn't that great.

Believe me I used to be a huge fan of his and made my self look foolish talking about how he'll" Have better years than Mcnabb and Romo coming into the 08 season" and I ended up a fool.



In English please.
Please dont bull with me you read it nice and clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vp2kOQeK18&feature=related
^^^^ thats what I ment to say if you couldn't..Read it...


And if any teams signs/trades for him as a starter, your opinions are just that.
If they trade him: He's worth something .

IF not: than he isn't that good. IF OL is an issue the glady the Cardinals-Vikes- and other OL needed QB teams will know how great Campbell is with time.

But good off-season tho from you. I dont understand the love of Campbell tho when you know alot of football in off-season but feel Campbell can be the guy?.
He isnt that good....I can't see anybody protecting a QB who gave us a lose to a traditional team we beat out every year like the Lions who where on a 0-19 record type.

[Fathead]

If they trade him: He's worth something .

IF not: than he isn't that good. IF OL is an issue the glady the Cardinals-Vikes- and other OL needed QB teams will know how great Campbell is with time.

But good off-season tho from you. I dont understand the love of Campbell tho when you know alot of football in off-season but feel Campbell can be the guy?.
He isnt that good....I can't see anybody protecting a QB who gave us a lose to a traditional team we beat out every year like the Lions who where on a 0-19 record type.

The Jets released Bart Farve for nothing. Randy Moss got traded for a 6th round draft pick. Meanwhile the Cow******* traded a number of picks for Roy Williams and he's been garbage.



You can't value someone solely on what they'd garner in trade.

[lorimike]

If someone offers up a 2nd rounder for Campbell I say we take it. He isn't the long term solution anyway, we won't be that good next year with or without Campbell, and if we don't trade him now then we will get no compensation. Of course this is all assuming this will be an uncapped. If it is capped then we lose Campbell without draft compensation regardless.

[akhhorus]

You said you know Shanahan won't keep Campbell. Its because he's not his type of QB plain and simple . No body would re-sign a one year guy who wants

I said that Shanahan won't commit a long term deal to Campbell and Campbell would only stay if he got that long term commitment. My full quote: "Campbell is only going to stay here if we give him a big long term deal, we're not going to give him a big long term deal. "



IDK about that. The worst I probably see was in 02...I saw the Skins vs Saints and that was probably the worst OL I have ever seen .

You can have that opinion if you want to, but the 2009 Skins OL is definitely one of the worst ones ever.

And the OL looked as bad when Campbell was on it. Honestly it was a bad OL with injuries every where but it could of been helped. Regardless with time in the pocket Campbell wouldn't have done alot. He's had an OL in 06-07-mid 08 and it wasn't that great.


And when he did have a good Oline and WRs who cared(the first half of 2008), he looked great.

Believe me I used to be a huge fan of his and made my self look foolish talking about how he'll" Have better years than Mcnabb and Romo coming into the 08 season" and I ended up a fool.


And this matters, why?

Please dont bull with me you read it nice and clear.

No, it wasn't clear. You still can't write english.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vp2k...eature=related
^^^^ thats what I ment to say if you couldn't..Read it...


That link goes nowhere, so you had nothing to say?


But good off-season tho from you. I dont understand the love of Campbell tho when you know alot of football in off-season but feel Campbell can be the guy?.
He isnt that good....I can't see anybody protecting a QB who gave us a lose to a traditional team we beat out every year like the Lions who where on a 0-19 record type.

In English please.

[shally]

If someone offers up a 2nd rounder for Campbell I say we take it. He isn't the long term solution anyway, we won't be that good next year with or without Campbell, and if we don't trade him now then we will get no compensation. Of course this is all assuming this will be an uncapped. If it is capped then we lose Campbell without draft compensation regardless.

agree.. we shouldnt have too long to wait to see what happens in March..some teams may wait until after the draft to see what their QB situation looks like.. if we draft Bradford, teams may lowball us, but that is no big deal because, worst case, we have Campbell for a year while Bradford sits and learns the pro game and gets bigger and stronger..

it wont be capped for sure. there isnt any time to get a deal done-- so Campbell is restricted

[lorimike]

agree.. we shouldnt have too long to wait to see what happens in March..some teams may wait until after the draft to see what their QB situation looks like.. if we draft Bradford, teams may lowball us, but that is no big deal because, worst case, we have Campbell for a year while Bradford sits and learns the pro game and gets bigger and stronger..

it wont be capped for sure. there isnt any time to get a deal done-- so Campbell is restricted

So if a team signs Campbell and we decline to match what is our draft compensation? Is there a formula ?

[akhhorus]

So if a team signs Campbell and we decline to match what is our draft compensation? Is there a formula ?

Depends on what we tender him with. In theory a 1st and a 3rd if we gave him the highest tender, but we'll negotiate on compensation.

[shally]

Depends on what we tender him with. In theory a 1st and a 3rd if we gave him the highest tender, but we'll negotiate on compensation.

as long as we can agree BEFORE they sign him.. my guess is that they are looking for the kind of compensation that Culpeper brought (a second rounder).
Culpeper had better stats, but he was playing on an offensive powerhouse

So if a team signs Campbell and we decline to match what is our draft compensation? Is there a formula ?

as Akh said, the formula is based upon the level of tender.. at the very least, he would fetch a first rounder under the league rules.. with a higher tender, it could be as much as two FIRSTS.. that is what was called for when the Panthers signed Sean Gilbert and we declined to match.. when we couldnt reach a settlement with the Panthers, the league forced them to give us two first rounders.. technically, that is what could happen with Campbell.. what will likely happen instead is that a team would reach a tentative agreement with Campbell and if we decline to match, then it comes down to negotiations with that team.. if we cant reach an agreement on compensation it could get very sticky.

Campbell could refuse to sign with us and sit out a year. that helps nobody

The other team could up their offer to us

We could simply keep Campbell for a year under the tender offer and then he would go off without compensation in 2011 (under the present CBA).. so, in essence, we would be forfeiting whatever compensation was offered for Campbell for the rights to keep him a year..

again, my guess is that the team would want a second rounder, and might accept a high 3 and 4-- especially if we plan to draft Bradford anyway.. it would give us the picks to land several O linemen in the draft and get some other needed reserves by filling out our draft.. it would also mean we have to sign another Vet QB (assuming that Shanahan has seen enough of Collins to let him walk)

[mr.moss]

I said that Shanahan won't commit a long term deal to Campbell and Campbell would only stay if he got that long term commitment. My full quote: "Campbell is only going to stay here if we give him a big long term deal, we're not going to give him a big long term deal. "

Than stop sucking off Campbell if you know this.



You can have that opinion if you want to, but the 2009 Skins OL is definitely one of the worst ones ever.

It was one of the worst so no argument there.

And when he did have a good Oline and WRs who cared(the first half of 2008), he looked great.
Keep in mind....no body took Zorn serious inti'll we started to go 6-2. After that Steelers game we looked horrible. Its both on Zorn and Campbell but even when Campbell had it all he wasn't that great besides...the Dallas and Eagles game that I thought he played very we'll in. But that also was credited to the big rushing yards from Portis. Its true Jason does better with a good RB but without it he's done. You don't need a RB to make a QB look good.

So all and all he's a back up at best. Maybe he'll do good with the Cards who I hope gives u a 2nd rounder.


And this matters, why?
Obviously I was more of a Campbell fan than you where but I got to see the 50 games Campbell put up and only 6 of them impress me.


No, it wasn't clear. You still can't write english.
When Osi sacked Campbell and caused a FF and ended up picking it up and return it for a TD. Point here is I'm saying Campbell had time.....whats his excuse there?.


That link goes nowhere, so you had nothing to say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vp2kOQeK18
The video is the Osi sack play.

Obviously I know more than you so lets keep it down sir.

In English please.
Stop being immature and start re-thinking about Campbell. He isn't good or was ever that good. This guy was projected a 2nd round-3rd round type of QB and Joe Gibbs got all caught up to the 80s thinking this guy was Doug Williams.



We should stop arguing unless you want to ?. But the whole Campbell thing is dumb. Post him if he had everything around him with other fans thoughts and see what they would say. They would think he's AVG at best.


But its ok man......me and you will be laughing all back to this saying Bradford or Clausen or who ever replaces Campbell is the real choice because will have a real QB.

[mr.moss]

Mr. Moss needs skip the new few rounds. I mean WTF w/ the nonsensical posts (in multiple threads)?

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/12/Drunk-Main.jpg

If that was a Henikan than that guy would be me .

[akhhorus]

Than stop sucking off Campbell if you know this.


Pointing out what Campbell is and what's he's not isn't sucking off anyone.

Keep in mind....no body took Zorn serious inti'll we started to go 6-2. After that Steelers game we looked horrible. Its both on Zorn and Campbell but even when Campbell had it all he wasn't that great besides...the Dallas and Eagles game that I thought he played very we'll in. But that also was credited to the big rushing yards from Portis. Its true Jason does better with a good RB but without it he's done. You don't need a RB to make a QB look good.

Thats because Samuels went down prior to that game and the entire offense fell apart.

So all and all he's a back up at best. Maybe he'll do good with the Cards who I hope gives u a 2nd rounder.


Why would they deal for anyone when they have Leinart?

Obviously I was more of a Campbell fan than you where but I got to see the 50 games Campbell put up and only 6 of them impress me.

Huh? Your delusions about Campbell's production doesn't make you any more or less of a fan of him, and your continued childish insults of him makes me think you're full of crap when you say you were ever a fan of his.


When Osi sacked Campbell and caused a FF and ended up picking it up and return it for a TD. Point here is I'm saying Campbell had time.....whats his excuse there?.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vp2kOQeK18
The video is the Osi sack play.

Obviously I know more than you so lets keep it down sir


We discussed that play here in great detail, Campbell had 3 seconds throw at most from when he got out of his play action to when OSi strip sacks him(and it didn't help that Moss dogged his route, which was the primary one). If you're expecting another QB to be able to drop back, go through his progressions and make a decision in less than 3 seconds when he doesn't know a fast defensive end is coming up his blind side, then you're just going to have to keep making up childish nicknames for every QB the skins get from now on.


Stop being immature and start re-thinking about Campbell. He isn't good or was ever that good. This guy was projected a 2nd round-3rd round type of QB and Joe Gibbs got all caught up to the 80s thinking this guy was Doug Williams.


Pointing out when your terrible attempts at the english language make it hard to understand what you're trying to say isn't immaturity, its trying to get you to communicate clearly.

We should stop arguing unless you want to ?. But the whole Campbell thing is dumb. Post him if he had everything around him with other fans thoughts and see what they would say. They would think he's AVG at best.

You've tried some pretty poor attempts at logic here, this is one of your worst. So, if opposing fans don't think much of him, that validates your childish ramblings about him?


But its ok man......me and you will be laughing all back to this saying Bradford or Clausen or who ever replaces Campbell is the real choice because will have a real QB.

I doubt you'll be at HR long enough to offer any opinions on whomever our next Qb is.

[flave1969]

Stop being immature and start re-thinking about Campbell. He isn't good or was ever that good. This guy was projected a 2nd round-3rd round type of QB and Joe Gibbs got all caught up to the 80s thinking this guy was Doug Williams.


You should take the time to read some football history before you post such flippant statements.

Doug Williams is the poster boy for what an average QB can do when he gets a good team around him. He came into the league with Tampa who were two years old and struggled his first couple of years on a team that had an up and down D and pretty poor Offense. In fact he was out of the league after 5 seasons and playing in the USFL.

Gibbs who had coached him in Tampa bought him back into the league and put him behind one of the finest lines ever. Whatsmore we had Monk, Clark and Sanders at WR, a decent TE combo, a running game and a competitive if not elite D. It isn't a surprise that he was able to perform better when it mattered.

Your analogy is ill conceived yet somehow I get the feeling this is explained by the fact your NFL history lessons probably began in the late 90's. If you were around to watch the 87 season you should know better.

[mr.moss]

You should take the time to read some football history before you post such flippant statements.

Doug Williams is the poster boy for what an average QB can do when he gets a good team around him. He came into the league with Tampa who were two years old and struggled his first couple of years on a team that had an up and down D and pretty poor Offense. In fact he was out of the league after 5 seasons and playing in the USFL.

Gibbs who had coached him in Tampa bought him back into the league and put him behind one of the finest lines ever. Whatsmore we had Monk, Clark and Sanders at WR, a decent TE combo, a running game and a competitive if not elite D. It isn't a surprise that he was able to perform better when it mattered.

Your analogy is ill conceived yet somehow I get the feeling this is explained by the fact your NFL history lessons probably began in the late 90's. If you were around to watch the 87 season you should know better.


Yes that was 1987 but what year is it now ?.Not trying to be smart but this isn't back than. Plus this is who we where comparing Campbell too back than ? Doug Williams right?. Doug Williams is a better player than Campbell IDC how the stats are atleast Williams made those big throws accurate. All honesty...I think Campbell did much better in the Al Sanders offense and if kept the same staff than I think Campbell might have been better....but Campbell isn't men't to be a starter.

Please I wanna stop talking about this guy .

[mr.moss]

Pointing out what Campbell is and what's he's not isn't sucking off anyone.

But to keep protecting him when hes not gonna be on the team ,less than a year shows that you still protect him.



Thats because Samuels went down prior to that game and the entire offense fell apart.

I'll admit this I think the Steelers D is number one for a reason. They did real good that year and there D was pass rushing every where. But this is what caused us to be more... figured out. Ever since that game we have been blitzed week in and week out. Even with the worst OL no team will blitz unless they know there QB can't handle it. When you put 6-7 man in the box there will be man to man coverage alot and maybe our WR are horrible but one of them have to break loose. But it is the Steelers so I can't really say Campbell is all fault to it because Steelers where real good in the blitz.


Why would they deal for anyone when they have Leinart?
Because even I can admit that Matt Leinart isn't better than Campbell and it was just out of an example...I guess.


Huh? Your delusions about Campbell's production doesn't make you any more or less of a fan of him, and your continued childish insults of him makes me think you're full of crap when you say you were ever a fan of his.

I'm not delusional when all of his stats and lossingest got me thinking that this guy isn't that good. 4-12.....at best if every thing worked would have been 7-9 in the easiest schedule in Redskins franchise. His numbers are overrated and his performance is yuck.

Believe me I protected this guy all the time. I even started to re-think this year if he was good just cause of that Broncos game but thats cause we won. We rarely win now.........


We discussed that play here in great detail, Campbell had 3 seconds throw at most from when he got out of his play action to when OSi strip sacks him(and it didn't help that Moss dogged his route, which was the primary one). If you're expecting another QB to be able to drop back, go through his progressions and make a decision in less than 3 seconds when he doesn't know a fast defensive end is coming up his blind side, then you're just going to have to keep making up childish nicknames for every QB the skins get from now on.
That was great protection on that PLAY!!!.

"I mean IDK what Jason Campbell is doing on this play....he has protection but when the DE's are going into motions like that you step up and have more time to throw it. Thats a big rookie mistake from Campbell"
-Troy Aikman(hall of famer former Dallas cowboys)

^^^^
Troy said that Campbell has to step up so he wouldn't have gotten that fumble. Honestly thats all on him. Even todd Collins would have stepped up and I would have understood if Campbell had the sack but your saying 3 sec's???any one who watches that video will say he had alot of time to do something.

again if he was sacked I would have understood because every one was covered but the fumble is a NO NO!!!.



Pointing out when your terrible attempts at the english language make it hard to understand what you're trying to say isn't immaturity, its trying to get you to communicate clearly.

Not that but obviously i'm crediting you and agreeing on your posts than you bring up an argument with me. Honestly....from what I hear your immature when it comes to Campbell stuff. Obviously I'm seeing that my good sir :).

You've tried some pretty poor attempts at logic here, this is one of your worst. So, if opposing fans don't think much of him, that validates your childish ramblings about him?
What are you talking about:sfight:so if your saying if we asked other fans how they feel about Campbell they'll say he sucks( thats what there gonna say btw) than you'll think they are just don't know?. Please ...you where saying Marc Sanchez sucks because of his lack of stats...than you say you would take Campbell over Palmer???.

Campbell is a joke. Even the fans outside of us know this , honestly only the STL rams fans would want Campbell but even they would suggest drafting Bradford or Clausen or even Mccoy.

Campbell isn't good. He's a great BACK UP but not good. Please lets just stop these arguments and just agree he isn't the guy.

I would take Jay Cutler-Marc Sanchez-Carson Palmer over Campbell because those are atleast show they can be good and franchise ( ARE) franchise QB's.





I doubt you'll be at HR long enough to offer any opinions on whomever our next Qb is.

Again stop taking things to seriously .......I said I agree with your off-season than you start an argument with me about Campbell when you said he isn't gonna be here than continue it with me???.


So basically we are arguing about a QB who is an RFA who won't be here for less than a year than draft a rookie QB and still argue about it?.

So lets put this to an end. How it gone from " I like your off-season to" still not pointing out the questions and points I given you. I ignored the other JC post so we could stop arguing.


But nice off-season although keeping Hall would be the best move.

[akhhorus]

Yes that was 1987 but what year is it now ?.Not trying to be smart but this isn't back than. Plus this is who we where comparing Campbell too back than ? Doug Williams right?. Doug Williams is a better player than Campbell IDC how the stats are atleast Williams made those big throws accurate. All honesty...I think Campbell did much better in the Al Sanders offense and if kept the same staff than I think Campbell might have been better....but Campbell isn't men't to be a starter.


You make absolutely zero sense in this paragraph.

Please I wanna stop talking about this guy .

Then stop talking about him. You're the one who's obsessed with him and keeps bringing him up.

But to keep protecting him when hes not gonna be on the team ,less than a year shows that you still protect him.


Pointing out the problems with the rest of the offense isn't protecting him. Its pointing out the problems with the rest of the offense.


I'll admit this I think the Steelers D is number one for a reason. They did real good that year and there D was pass rushing every where. But this is what caused us to be more... figured out. Ever since that game we have been blitzed week in and week out. Even with the worst OL no team will blitz unless they know there QB can't handle it. When you put 6-7 man in the box there will be man to man coverage alot and maybe our WR are horrible but one of them have to break loose. But it is the Steelers so I can't really say Campbell is all fault to it because Steelers where real good in the blitz.


In English please.

I'm not delusional when all of his stats and lossingest got me thinking that this guy isn't that good. 4-12.....at best if every thing worked would have been 7-9 in the easiest schedule in Redskins franchise. His numbers are overrated and his performance is yuck.

So, when the defense blew a lead or couldn't make a late stop or gave up a 10 minute long drive to open a game before Campbell ever got on the field, that loss is on Campbell?

Believe me I protected this guy all the time. I even started to re-think this year if he was good just cause of that Broncos game but thats cause we won. We rarely win now.........


Thats far from Campbell's fault. Its not Campbell's fault that the skins defense couldn't stop a big play all year long....but I'm sure you think it probably is.

That was great protection on that PLAY!!!.


Get off the pot if you think that was great protection. I love Samuels, but he tickled Osi on that play instead of blocking him.

"I mean IDK what Jason Campbell is doing on this play....he has protection but when the DE's are going into motions like that you step up and have more time to throw it. Thats a big rookie mistake from Campbell"
-Troy Aikman(hall of famer former Dallas cowboys)


Aikman's had too many concussions. There was no way Campbell could have stepped up on that play because he couldn't see Osi at all(and Osi didn't get close enough to hit him, just to reach out to strip the ball away).

Troy said that Campbell has to step up so he wouldn't have gotten that fumble. Honestly thats all on him. Even todd Collins would have stepped up and I would have understood if Campbell had the sack but your saying 3 sec's???any one who watches that video will say he had alot of time to do something.


See above.

again if he was sacked I would have understood because every one was covered but the fumble is a NO NO!!!.


In english please.

Not that but obviously i'm crediting you and agreeing on your posts than you bring up an argument with me. Honestly....from what I hear your immature when it comes to Campbell stuff. Obviously I'm seeing that my good sir .


You're the only person acting immature in this thread.

What are you talking aboutso if your saying if we asked other fans how they feel about Campbell they'll say he sucks( thats what there gonna say btw) than you'll think they are just don't know?. Please ...you where saying Marc Sanchez sucks because of his lack of stats...than you say you would take Campbell over Palmer???.


So, I'm an opposing fan, and my opinion of Palmer or Sanchez doesn't matter, but any opposing fan who thinks Campbell sucks means that this validates your opinion of Campbell? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

Campbell is a joke. Even the fans outside of us know this , honestly only the STL rams fans would want Campbell but even they would suggest drafting Bradford or Clausen or even Mccoy.


Thanks for your opinion, but its only that.

Campbell isn't good. He's a great BACK UP but not good. Please lets just stop these arguments and just agree he isn't the guy.


Is this how sad you've become? Really?

I would take Jay Cutler-Marc Sanchez-Carson Palmer over Campbell because those are atleast show they can be good and franchise ( ARE) franchise QB's.


There's a lot of people in Chicago and Cincy(and probably in New York after the title game) who wouldn't agree with you.

Again stop taking things to seriously .......I said I agree with your off-season than you start an argument with me about Campbell when you said he isn't gonna be here than continue it with me???.


You're the one who started this argument, not me. So, why don't you take your own advice.

So basically we are arguing about a QB who is an RFA who won't be here for less than a year than draft a rookie QB and still argue about it?.

No, you're throwing a fit because no one agrees with you.

[Fathead]

SMH. I'm done.

Lol. I'm done arguing. This dude needs to go take a chill pillz lol.

You couldn't last 2 minutes without commenting.

[hail2skins]

If thats the case than people should stop getting into me thinking I'm a bad guy. Ive been posting information and all those stuff. Your quote isn't what I men't.

What I ment was HOW is judging a guy on a CPU on words gonna help them out. At best lest talk about my football thinking and how random people think of me.


But I'm about to stop posting here so no worries. Its to many people who act as if I'm a bad guy ( people blaim my grammar) but even so ignore me as a guy, judge my football thoughts. Not who I am. If I'm a killer how is that gonna refer to a football forum?.Let's get this straight. You were the first to refer to yourself as a thug. You did it. You were the one to come here and just talk Campbell in just about every post you made. People even tried to help you out and provided advice. You didn't heed it. I even advised you via a PM but you didn't listen. Your time here has run out and it's time for you to find another forum to post in.

[hail2skins]

This thread has been cleaned up a bit to try to get it back on topic.

[Fathead]

Hey Akh, which stop gap QB do you want the most?

[akhhorus]

Hey Akh, which stop gap QB do you want the most?

I'd like Pennington.

In a related note, Steinberg has this big nugget via CBS:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/02/bruce_allen_no_black_uniforms.html#more

* Lesley Visser writes a Skins piece brimming with optimism for CBSSports.com. She quotes Mike Shanahan on what he wants in a quarterback:

"I need a quarterback, No. 1, to be accurate, and No. 2, to be passionate about the game, about the preparation, the study and the execution," said Shanahan. "I've been around a lot of leaders and they do it different ways -- Joe Montana, Steve Young and John Elway. But they all had a deep desire to be the best."

Translation: if the Rams take Bradford #1, I'm going to run up the score on them every single time I play them from now on and pay my players to take out their best players with cut blocks lol.

[hail2skins]

Thread cleaned some more after the banishment of mr.moss

[skins4life24]

What do you think about Dansby from Arizona coming here? Just read on insider that he mentioned us as a potential destination on radio. could be a good 3-4 strong side LB to pair with Rak

[akhhorus]

What do you think about Dansby from Arizona coming here? Just read on insider that he mentioned us as a potential destination on radio. could be a good 3-4 strong side LB to pair with Rak

He would play inside I bet, but he's going to be expensive. He'll want(and get) Bart Scott money(6/48 million). I'd rather give Kirk Morrison 35 million.

[sinskin]

He would play inside I bet, but he's going to be expensive. He'll want(and get) Bart Scott money(6/48 million). I'd rather give Kirk Morrison 35 million.

With a no-capp year does the extra 13 mill really mean anything?

[akhhorus]

With a no-capp year does the extra 13 mill really mean anything?

Who says the cap is going away forever?

[shally]

Who says the cap is going away forever?

it might not go away forever, but i would bet that if one were re instituted it would be done in such a way as to not penalize teams for their behavior during un capped year(s).. otherwise, they will never get enough votes to pass it

[akhhorus]

it might not go away forever, but i would bet that if one were re instituted it would be done in such a way as to not penalize teams for their behavior during un capped year(s).. otherwise, they will never get enough votes to pass it

True, but there's going to be no protection for deals with base year salaries after the cap is re-instituted.

[Hr fan]

True, but there's going to be no protection for deals with base year salaries after the cap is re-instituted.

+1. While there will be some grandfathering it will be for a limited time and will rapidly decrease over that time period. Also most owners are in a bargaining position of "we are broke and the players have to take less", whether argued on the economy or stadium investment or other issue, will limit the amount of 2011 et seq base salary investment. To make a huge investment in 2010 ala Haynesworth with much smaller following salaries is very risky both on player contract year thinking (I've got mine now...) and health/injury. It is still far better to build through draft and fa without huge signings. This is not a danny patiernce mode approach, so we shall see if he is really letting the pros run the farm.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

So I read on pft that we should expect Sproles to hit the market. I say sign him.