Colt Brennan Question.

[WRSK1NS]

For some of our more knowledgeable memebers (AKH, CNY, Shally, BNG, Hail2) just to name a few..... I have a Colt Brennan question.


I want to know if you think that Shanny and Company can make anything out of Brennan?

I know it was just preseason but two years ago Brennan stepped in and looked good. Last year I admit he looked crappy - heck everyone did.

Do you all think he has the tools to become an NFL QB or a solid Backup? Do you think Shanny can use him or do anything to improve upon his skills or is he just another wasted pick?


Just curious to know since no one is talking about him...

[Fathead]

For some of our more knowledgeable memebers (AKH, CNY, Shally, BNG, Hail2) just to name a few..... I have a Colt Brennan question.


I want to know if you think that Shanny and Company can make anything out of Brennan?

I know it was just preseason but two years ago Brennan stepped in and looked good. Last year I admit he looked crappy - heck everyone did.

Do you all think he has the tools to become an NFL QB or a solid Backup? Do you think Shanny can use him or do anything to improve upon his skills or is he just another wasted pick?


Just curious to know since no one is talking about him...



He looked decent throwing it up in the middle of the field against 7th string safeties who are currently bagging groceries or pumping gas. He's awful and was a waste of a pick. If Shanny keeps him around as more than a ball boy I'll be shocked.

[akhhorus]

I want to know if you think that Shanny and Company can make anything out of Brennan?


Nope. Brennan gets the deer in the headlights look when blitzed too much to be a good QB.

I know it was just preseason but two years ago Brennan stepped in and looked good. Last year I admit he looked crappy - heck everyone did.

Brennan only looked good against the 3rd/4th stringers in 08, then looked bad against the 2nd/3rd stringers.

Do you all think he has the tools to become an NFL QB or a solid Backup? Do you think Shanny can use him or do anything to improve upon his skills or is he just another wasted pick?


Not at all. He just doesn't have anything as a passer to overcome his issues with a pass rush or his lack of arm strength.
Wasted pick.

[CNYSkinFan]

he sucks.

[Biggie]

Chase Daniel looked good. It's a shame he never got a cult.

[CNYSkinFan]

Chase Daniel looked good. It's a shame he never got a cult.
agreed. he probably sucks too, but I would have liked to see hinm as a 3rd qb for a year and see what he does this year instead of the Ancient One todd Collins

[shally]

minority opinion here ::

if Colt is healthy and over his hip woes, he has the ideal head coach in Shanahan.. he has the type of mobility, attitude, and play making ability (in college) that would have attracted Shanahan.

plus, Shanahan trusts his own opinion above all else. Shanahan is also a friend of June Jones from what i recall.. no one has ever been higher on Colt than Jones..

i think Colt will get a chance to show his wares in preseason and in OTA's, and after that, it is on him.. if he crashes and burns, he wont have anyone to blame but himself

if Shanahan takes Bradford or Clausen, you can figure that Shanahan probably thinks little of Colt.. then again, we did take BOTH Shuler at #4 and followed it with Frerrotte in the 7th round..
if Shanahan doesnt take a QB in the first round, then i think that Colt has a shot

[shally]

agreed. he probably sucks too, but I would have liked to see hinm as a 3rd qb for a year and see what he does this year instead of the Ancient One todd Collins

collins is toast...way too expensive to keep as a #3 QB

[Nomad]

We need 20 players, and have 5 draft picks. Brennan will get another shot. Everyone comes into Shanny's tenure with a clean slate. Let's see how he does in a real system that isn't dysfunctional. Tougher question if we draft QB, then you want veteran.

[Keino]

We need 20 players, and have 5 draft picks. Brennan will get another shot. Everyone comes into Shanny's tenure with a clean slate. Let's see how he does in a real system that isn't dysfunctional. Tougher question if we draft QB, then you want veteran.

LOL.

I doubt he will get more than a cursory look.

[colkurtz]

Colt looked horrible last preseason. He had like a 45 QB rating. Of course then Zorn kept him over Chase Daniels - who had a 105 rating (and then went to the Saints, before being dropped).

I'd be very surprised if Colt made the team as the #3. His fundamentals are bad and he didn't look good under pressure.

All eyes will be on the new drafted QB, with a veteran QB to play some games and tutor him. Personally I've been holding the candle for Daniels at #3 but who knows what he is doing now.

[hail2skins]

minority opinion here ::

if Colt is healthy and over his hip woes, he has the ideal head coach in Shanahan.. he has the type of mobility, attitude, and play making ability (in college) that would have attracted Shanahan.

plus, Shanahan trusts his own opinion above all else. Shanahan is also a friend of June Jones from what i recall.. no one has ever been higher on Colt than Jones..

i think Colt will get a chance to show his wares in preseason and in OTA's, and after that, it is on him.. if he crashes and burns, he wont have anyone to blame but himself

if Shanahan takes Bradford or Clausen, you can figure that Shanahan probably thinks little of Colt.. then again, we did take BOTH Shuler at #4 and followed it with Frerrotte in the 7th round..
if Shanahan doesnt take a QB in the first round, then i think that Colt has a shotTotally disagree with you shally. I think his delivery would have kept Shanny away.

As mentioned previously, he looked good against nothing and looked terrible against players. Not what we want at the QB position. Send him off to NFL Europe or the Canadian football league. Maybe he'll learn something and can come back like a Warner type player.

[shally]

Totally disagree with you shally. I think his delivery would have kept Shanny away.

As mentioned previously, he looked good against nothing and looked terrible against players. Not what we want at the QB position. Send him off to NFL Europe or the Canadian football league. Maybe he'll learn something and can come back like a Warner type player.

i understand that, clearly, i am in the minority here.. at least Colt wont have a Buffoon like Zorn trying to get into his head with his goofy coaching style

for whatever Warner's faults, he always had a snappy delivery and could read defenses quickly.. not sure if Colt has that much.. still, i think Shanahan will at least give him a look

it is too bad we dont still have some kind of real developmental league

[joethefan]

it is too bad we dont still have some kind of real developmental league

I understand, the problem is, that with all this money they are paying out on a scale of 1-10 you have to be at least an 8 coming into the league as a rookie. Our problem is that we as an org haven't developed players well at all. The little man wants to win now and never wants to wait to build anything. So before any foundation is built, they tear it down. (But IMO w Zorn their was no foundation.

[shally]

I understand, the problem is, that with all this money they are paying out on a scale of 1-10 you have to be at least an 8 coming into the league as a rookie. Our problem is that we as an org haven't developed players well at all. The little man wants to win now and never wants to wait to build anything. So before any foundation is built, they tear it down. (But IMO w Zorn their was no foundation.

baseball realizes the worth of a developmental league.. ditto the NBA

the NHL has it's minors as well... only the NFL eschews this part of the process

[paparora]

I've been youtubing these quarterbacks, and I will say this..Jason Campbell has always thrown these dunks. He looks miserable in that SEC championship game. Some of his Redskins highlights are pretty solid though.

Bradford is actually pretty good, I dont know how much his injury has set him back though.

Clausen is basically another average quarterback. He throws it to guys that are wide open, but havent seen him fit one in the tight too much.

As far as Colt Brennan, can he even throw the ball further than 20 yards with that motion?

Its a tough market out there. Id say let it pass or go for Bradford.

[Fathead]

Brennan can't throw the ball more than 5 feet without a running start.

[shally]

Brennan can't throw the ball more than 5 feet without a running start.

well, with our o line, he should get lots of practice...running, that is...lol

[WRSK1NS]

well, with our o line, he should get lots of practice...running, that is...lol

Thank you all for your opinions.... Colt kind of reminds me of a young(er) Cooley. He seems like he would be a fun kind of guy to have around. I wasn't sure if Zorn screwed him up and if Shanny might be able to fix him.


It's a shame, I was hoping that eventually he might turn out to be good.


Thanks agian.

[Keino]

baseball realizes the worth of a developmental league.. ditto the NBA

the NHL has it's minors as well... only the NFL eschews this part of the process

Well shally, that is because they have a minor league for which they need not contribute a dime. It's called the NCAA. Why do you think the NFL makes it a point not to compete with College by airing games on Saturdays? Why does the league wait so late in the season to hold it's Thursday games? Thhey don't want to upset the apple-cart. It's too sweet.

[shally]

Well shally, that is because they have a minor league for which they need not contribute a dime. It's called the NCAA. Why do you think the NFL makes it a point not to compete with College by airing games on Saturdays? Why does the league wait so late in the season to hold it's Thursday games? Thhey don't want to upset the apple-cart. It's too sweet.

college baseball and NCAA basketball survives just fine with BOTH the pro league and developmental leagues.. that is a bunch of BS.. the owners are just a bunch of tight fisted a**holes.. they would rather not spend a penny they dont have to.. it is colossally short sighted as far as the sport, and many individuals are concerned.. a lot of young players are totally not ready for the pro game and their careers are wasted because of it.

if they could be paid a living wage and hone their skills everyone would be better off.. of course, a lot of them would have to take a PAY CUT when leaving college.. but then, that is a whole 'nother issue

[DaveKShape]

Colt looked horrible last preseason. He had like a 45 QB rating. Of course then Zorn kept him over Chase Daniels - who had a 105 rating (and then went to the Saints, before being dropped).

I'd be very surprised if Colt made the team as the #3. His fundamentals are bad and he didn't look good under pressure.

All eyes will be on the new drafted QB, with a veteran QB to play some games and tutor him. Personally I've been holding the candle for Daniels at #3 but who knows what he is doing now.

daniel got dropped, but then readded a week or two later. he's still theoretically their 3rd string QB. we let this guy go, and then the team that gives him a chance (albeit a very miniscule one) wins a super bowl. i'm quite happy for him (regardless of the fact that he never took the field).

it'll be interesting to see what happens if they keep him around under the tutelage of brees - another "too short" QB... who just happened to win MVP of the super bowl.

[skins74]

The way I look at it now is atleast we have coaches that aren't going to ruin players and I don't think that has been the case here in a while. If Colt has anything Shanny will know.

[CNYSkinFan]

Colt looked horrible last preseason. He had like a 45 QB rating. Of course then Zorn kept him over Chase Daniels - who had a 105 rating (and then went to the Saints, before being dropped).

I'd be very surprised if Colt made the team as the #3. His fundamentals are bad and he didn't look good under pressure.

All eyes will be on the new drafted QB, with a veteran QB to play some games and tutor him. Personally I've been holding the candle for Daniels at #3 but who knows what he is doing now.
i don't think anybody believes Zorn made that decision. That was Vinny justifying his reason to exist.

[whiskeytown]

maybe we should draft McCoy, keep Brennan and then bring in Jim Sorgi as the vet so we'll have 3 Colt QBs.

maybe.

[Moe]

Well shally, that is because they have a minor league for which they need not contribute a dime. It's called the NCAA. Why do you think the NFL makes it a point not to compete with College by airing games on Saturdays? Why does the league wait so late in the season to hold it's Thursday games? Thhey don't want to upset the apple-cart. It's too sweet.

Bingo. Add in the CFL, the dead-but-returing-from-the-grave-Arean league and the now defunct WFL and there are/were enough avenues for them to eschew the expense. I also think that the comparitive scale of team sizes, with NFL being so large, that a development league basically churns the bottom for only random returns.

[Gunnar]

Chase Daniel looked good. It's a shame he never got a cult.

True... Well didn't he get to see a Superbowl with Brunn in New Orleans?

[Fathead]

True... Well didn't he get to see a Superbowl with Brunn in New Orleans?

He was on the roster for the SB.

[Biggie]

He was on the roster for the SB.
Chase Daniel has a ring.

That's awesome.

[Fathead]

Chase Daniel has a ring.

That's awesome.

He should really thank Vinny and Zorn for getting rid of him.

[Gunnar]

He should really thank Vinny and Zorn for getting rid of him.

Funny, How things work out for him... He is learning i hope? from Brees.

[AGibbsGirl]

He was on the roster for the SB.Chase Daniels and Mark Brunell? Dang, pays to be a washed up/cut Redskin QB in NO

[BurgundyNGold]

For some of our more knowledgeable memebers (AKH, CNY, Shally, BNG, Hail2) just to name a few..... I have a Colt Brennan question.

I want to know if you think that Shanny and Company can make anything out of Brennan?

I know it was just preseason but two years ago Brennan stepped in and looked good. Last year I admit he looked crappy - heck everyone did.

Do you all think he has the tools to become an NFL QB or a solid Backup? Do you think Shanny can use him or do anything to improve upon his skills or is he just another wasted pick?

Just curious to know since no one is talking about him...
I think that Brennan will get a look by Shanny as a backup but I don't think that he's going to hitch his wagon to the Brennan star at this point. One thing is certain, though: If Shanny thinks he has talent, he'll keep him. Conversely, if he thinks that Brennan doesn't have an NFL future, he'll cut him. Shanny has no professional or emotional investment in any of the current players.

That said, I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what Brennan and many other current Redskins can do in a real NFL offense and a defense not run by an egomaniac with early onset dementia lol. This is going to be a fun preseason. Too bad we have to wait 5 more months for it.

[shally]

I think that Brennan will get a look by Shanny as a backup but I don't think that he's going to hitch his wagon to the Brennan star at this point. One thing is certain, though: If Shanny thinks he has talent, he'll keep him. Conversely, if he thinks that Brennan doesn't have an NFL future, he'll cut him. Shanny has no professional or emotional investment in any of the current players.

That said, I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what Brennan and many other current Redskins can do in a real NFL offense and a defense not run by an egomaniac with early onset dementia lol. This is going to be a fun preseason. Too bad we have to wait 5 more months for it.

+1...exactly

[firehawk157]

minority opinion here ::

if Colt is healthy and over his hip woes, he has the ideal head coach in Shanahan.. he has the type of mobility, attitude, and play making ability (in college) that would have attracted Shanahan.

plus, Shanahan trusts his own opinion above all else. Shanahan is also a friend of June Jones from what i recall.. no one has ever been higher on Colt than Jones..

i think Colt will get a chance to show his wares in preseason and in OTA's, and after that, it is on him.. if he crashes and burns, he wont have anyone to blame but himself

if Shanahan takes Bradford or Clausen, you can figure that Shanahan probably thinks little of Colt.. then again, we did take BOTH Shuler at #4 and followed it with Frerrotte in the 7th round..
if Shanahan doesnt take a QB in the first round, then i think that Colt has a shot

I have to echo Akh here but Brennan has absolutely no idea what to do in the face of a rush. He either throws it up for grabs or just collapses. Colt reminds me of the kind of guy that runs around the house pointlessly or crouches in the corner when the house is on fire. Just not a guy you want in a sticky spot. I can't think of any QB who made anything out of himself when they had that disease. You just absolutely have to deal with a rush. I would say flush all but Campbell (tender him for a 2nd rounder) and then draft a guy and bring in somebody else. Take the trade for the 2nd if anybody is willing to part with that for Campbell.

[Keino]

college baseball and NCAA basketball survives just fine with BOTH the pro league and developmental leagues.. that is a bunch of BS.. the owners are just a bunch of tight fisted a**holes.. they would rather not spend a penny they dont have to.. it is colossally short sighted as far as the sport, and many individuals are concerned.. a lot of young players are totally not ready for the pro game and their careers are wasted because of it.

if they could be paid a living wage and hone their skills everyone would be better off.. of course, a lot of them would have to take a PAY CUT when leaving college.. but then, that is a whole 'nother issue

The physical nature of football doesn't allow for a professional development/minor league. Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong, it is not BS at all.

Basketball players with pro potential spend 2 years in college (generally speaking) due to the NBA age restriction, a rule designed to promote the health of the college game (and to have more mature milliionaires in the pro game). A restriction that was implemented in Football by the NFL long before the NBA implemented this rule, why do you think that is? To promote the health of college football. But even then, the NBA D League doesn't put that many players into the Pros. The highest draft picks come from college and pro-teams from other countries.

In Baseball, the best players in the country fdo not play in college for the most part. They get drafted out of HS and go straight to the Minors. Baseball is the only sport of the big 3 that truly uses its minor leagues to develop talent and move it to the bigs. Most players lose value with playing college ball. You will also note that MLB does virtually nothing to promote College baseball and has no qualms about competing with the CWS.

The NFL has no need to, nor is it practical, to incur the expense of a D league. The World League (which was used this way) was a collosal failure and the NCAA provides a very deep talent pool, so deep that every year some undrafted player ends up sticking and contributing to an NFL roster. Something I can tell you never happens in the NBA or MLB.

[colkurtz]

daniel got dropped, but then readded a week or two later. he's still theoretically their 3rd string QB. we let this guy go, and then the team that gives him a chance (albeit a very miniscule one) wins a super bowl. i'm quite happy for him (regardless of the fact that he never took the field).

it'll be interesting to see what happens if they keep him around under the tutelage of brees - another "too short" QB... who just happened to win MVP of the super bowl.

Thanks for the update, now I'm even more depressed. I thought Chase Daniels had real potential and obviously the SB team did also by picking him up & keeping him. It just shows what a bunch of amateur, bush league management we had with Zorn and Cerrato.

I even thought that Daniels [if given the chance] could have won the #2 spot over Collins eventually and might have finished out the season.

BL - Shannihan has no ties to any of these players. We need this housecleaning. I see no way for Colt to survive unless he has dramatically improved......

[Keino]

Thanks for the update, now I'm even more depressed. I thought Chase Daniels had real potential and obviously the SB team did also by picking him up & keeping him. It just shows what a bunch of amateur, bush league management we had with Zorn and Cerrato.

I even thought that Daniels [if given the chance] could have won the #2 spot over Collins eventually and might have finished out the season.

BL - Shannihan has no ties to any of these players. We need this housecleaning. I see no way for Colt to survive unless he has dramatically improved......

They did cut him a few times throughout the year. Still, that we let him get away speaks to the buffoonery of our front office....

[colkurtz]

They did cut him a few times throughout the year. Still, that we let him get away speaks to the buffoonery of our front office....

+1. Exactly. What I don't get is why Zorn, supposedly this top-notch QB coach, would just let Chase go over Colt? Colt played horribly all pre-season and Daniels just blew him away. Was it all Vinny's desire to "protect" his sixth round draft pick? Did Zorn not see the difference between these two QB, or did he just have zero desire to fight Vinny for the players he wanted?

Zorn just didn't seem to want to develop some players. Marko Mitchell showed real potential (catching TD's from Chase Daniels) but I'm not even sure if he ever got to play all season. Why not?

[whiskeytown]

+1. Exactly. What I don't get is why Zorn, supposedly this top-notch QB coach, would just let Chase go over Colt? Colt played horribly all pre-season and Daniels just blew him away. Was it all Vinny's desire to "protect" his sixth round draft pick? Did Zorn not see the difference between these two QB, or did he just have zero desire to fight Vinny for the players he wanted?




yea, i'd have to guess it was Cerrato. i realize Zorn proved to be incompetent on many levels, but i think we all know that had ZERO power.

[CNYSkinFan]

They did cut him a few times throughout the year. Still, that we let him get away speaks to the buffoonery of our front office....
i attribute his cutting more to the new (and I think ultimately flawed) philosophy that you need only 2 qbs on your active roster and the 3rd can hover between ps and active roster each week.

Make no mistake, Chase is jusrt as big a gamble as Colt, but he has better mechanics and better decision making. Colt was Vinny's homerun pick, and instead of admitting it failed they kept him on IR last year and decided not to sign Chase.

[BurgundyNGold]

i attribute his cutting more to the new (and I think ultimately flawed) philosophy that you need only 2 qbs on your active roster and the 3rd can hover between ps and active roster each week.

Make no mistake, Chase is jusrt as big a gamble as Colt, but he has better mechanics and better decision making. Colt was Vinny's homerun pick, and instead of admitting it failed they kept him on IR last year and decided not to sign Chase.
In all fairness, I believe that Chase Daniel was in the PS during the season after Vinny had been fired. If Allen (or anyone in the Redskins organization) thought he was worthwhile, they could have cut Renaldo Wynn (again) or someone else who is worthless and signed Daniel to the active roster at any time. They chose not to, so the buffoonery wouldn't be limited just to Vinny.

[CNYSkinFan]

In all fairness, I believe that Chase Daniel was in the PS during the season after Vinny had been fired. If Allen (or anyone in the Redskins organization) thought he was worthwhile, they could have cut Renaldo Wynn (again) or someone else who is worthless and signed Daniel to the active roster at any time. They chose not to, so the buffoonery wouldn't be limited just to Vinny.
No chase Daniel was never on our PS, he was not offered a spot after Training Camp. We let him go to New Orleans PS and he was back and forth between the active roster there. We decided to go get soe dude from the Giants training camp and put him on ps and Brennan on IR.

I blame Vinny for not offering a ps spot to Daniels and wastefully stashing Brennan on IR with a mild injury to keep his pet qb around for another year when he got a new coach and could shove brennan on them. But vinny got fired and now Allen can dispatch (preferably by firing squad) Brennan

[BurgundyNGold]

No chase Daniel was never on our PS, he was not offered a spot after Training Camp. We let him go to New Orleans PS and he was back and forth between the active roster there. We decided to go get soe dude from the Giants training camp and put him on ps and Brennan on IR.
On New Orleans' PS. I should have clarified. I remember at one point in Week 16 or 17 where Daniel was available (either cut or PS).

I blame Vinny for not offering a ps spot to Daniels and wastefully stashing Brennan on IR with a mild injury to keep his pet qb around for another year when he got a new coach and could shove brennan on them. But vinny got fired and now Allen can dispatch (preferably by firing squad) Brennan
I don't mind stashing Brennan but that idiot Vinny should have kept Daniel on the active roster, IMO.

Andre Woodson? Really??? Who the flying burrito is that? Vinny was clueless. Clue. Less. For his sake, I hope I never see him on a Metro platform.

[silverspring]

Sure seems like a lot of discussion about an undersized qb prospect that only played 2 quarters of preseason and even those were against the scrubs. And it is hard to even count the second game he played considering it was the ultimate scrub game- the last preseason game.

[CNYSkinFan]

On New Orleans' PS. I should have clarified. I remember at one point in Week 16 or 17 where Daniel was available (either cut or PS).


I don't mind stashing Brennan but that idiot Vinny should have kept Daniel on the active roster, IMO.

Andre Woodson? Really??? Who the flying burrito is that? Vinny was clueless. Clue. Less. For his sake, I hope I never see him on a Metro platform.
i am pretty sure you need to be 4' tall to ride the Metro alone....

[CNYSkinFan]

Sure seems like a lot of discussion about an undersized qb prospect that only played 2 quarters of preseason and even those were against the scrubs. And it is hard to even count the second game he played considering it was the ultimate scrub game- the last preseason game.
Chase or Colt? :)

[BurgundyNGold]

i am pretty sure you need to be 4' tall to ride the Metro alone....
Maybe, lol. But if you think that his eyes are bugged out now, just wait until he sees the front of that train lol. And I'd probably get away with it too, since folks get hit by Metro trains, what, like two or three times a day now? Sometimes, the trains jump off the tracks and try to take a bite out of passengers like that cave tried to do to the Millenium Falcon in Star Wars lol.

http://www.thiel-a-vision.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/spaceslug.jpg

[silverspring]

Chase or Colt? :)

lol. Colt might be a bust as well, but the big difference is that colt has a lot more snaps to make a judgment on. In fact i believe he has as much as 4 times the amount of snaps. I am as open to man crushes on players as the next guy, but it just seems to me that chase has yet to earn the man love he is receiving. Maybe after next pre-season, but not after a couple quarters of junk time and a handful of dink and dunk passes.

[CNYSkinFan]

lol. Colt might be a bust as well, but the big difference is that colt has a lot more snaps to make a judgment on. In fact i believe he has as much as 4 times the amount of snaps. I am as open to man crushes on players as the next guy, but it just seems to me that chase has yet to earn the man love he is receiving. Maybe after next pre-season, but not after a couple quarters of junk time and a handful of dink and dunk passes.
hey i said earlier in this thread Chase probably sucks too. the problem iws when comparing him to Cult Chase has better mechanics and seems to have better decision making. And when the skins could have kept him they didn't and now Chase has a roster spot and role it seems somewhere else.

[colkurtz]

We'll never know how good Chase Daniels would be on this team. Yes, he had limited play time in meaningless PS games. However, he did do well when he was in and far out-performed Brennan.

He impressed the SB team and was picked up by them. So someone else thought he had potential. At least Chase will be on an NFL team this upcoming season - which is more than I can say for Collins and the Cult of Colt. My prediction.

No man crush on Daniels - he just had a diamond in the rough look and then was allowed to slip away by Vinny and HC Zorn.

[Keino]

lol. Colt might be a bust as well, but the big difference is that colt has a lot more snaps to make a judgment on. In fact i believe he has as much as 4 times the amount of snaps. I am as open to man crushes on players as the next guy, but it just seems to me that chase has yet to earn the man love he is receiving. Maybe after next pre-season, but not after a couple quarters of junk time and a handful of dink and dunk passes.

How many snaps do you need to judge someone's fundamental skills? Serious question.

[silverspring]

hey i said earlier in this thread Chase probably sucks too. the problem iws when comparing him to Cult Chase has better mechanics and seems to have better decision making. And when the skins could have kept him they didn't and now Chase has a roster spot and role it seems somewhere else.

Well it will certainly be interesting to watch and see if chase can show some consistency this pre-season and of course if new orleans decides to keep him on the roster.

Hard to compare the two either way. They both have knocks, colt has the side arm and chase has the midget thing going for him. As far as Colt goes, he didn't come away from his second pre-season looking to hot. I will be interested to see if he recovers. In fact I will be most interested to see if he is on the roster come pre-season. Now my whole issue with chase is i don't think he has gotten enough snaps for a fan to make a judgment one way or the other. But considering that he isn't close to the size of a prototypical qb i don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention it isn't like the saints made a big commitment to him. They waived him from the roster at one point when they needed another player.

[BurgundyNGold]

How many snaps do you need to judge someone's fundamental skills? Serious question.
1,638 (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235) lol. ;)

[akhhorus]

1,638 (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235) lol. ;)

Brennan is lucky that the NFL re-started the Arena League then lol.

[dj_stouty]

1,638 (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235) lol. ;)

:lol3:

[silverspring]

How many snaps do you need to judge someone's fundamental skills? Serious question.

Tough question. Never enough, but certainly two pre-season quarters is not enough.

Now there is a big difference between the fans and the coaches. The coaches get to watch these guys practice all week long, all we see is game day. Zorn clearly wasn't too impressed with chase or he would have kept him. Zorn might be a dunce as a head coach but i think he is the real deal as a qb coach. So I will take his word.

[firehawk157]

Tough question. Never enough, but certainly two pre-season quarters is not enough.

Now there is a big difference between the fans and the coaches. The coaches get to watch these guys practice all week long, all we see is game day. Zorn clearly wasn't too impressed with chase or he would have kept him. Zorn might be a dunce as a head coach but i think he is the real deal as a qb coach. So I will take his word.

You're assuming Zorn had any control of the roster. I don't think this is the case.

[Keino]

Tough question. Never enough, but certainly two pre-season quarters is not enough.

Now there is a big difference between the fans and the coaches. The coaches get to watch these guys practice all week long, all we see is game day. Zorn clearly wasn't too impressed with chase or he would have kept him. Zorn might be a dunce as a head coach but i think he is the real deal as a qb coach. So I will take his word.

See I tend to think a guy's fundamentals show themselves fairly quickly. I think the hype surrounding both of the players in question was the results of their play, but that wasn't what had me excited about Chase and unexcited about Colt.

It was how they got their results. I felt like Chase showed some real solid fundamentals in both his footwork and his release. When pressured he was mobile and decisive. I felt like Colt had decent footwork, but his release and delivery was nightmarish and when pressured he chucked the ball up for grabs.

Having said all of that, Zorn was a clown. I don't think the guy made a single tough decision or had much control over the roster. I don't know that his opinion matters much in this discussion. But you are right, the coaches saw them everyday. The problem is, I don't think a competent coaching staff would have come to the same conclusion that Vinny and his band of monkeys did.

[silverspring]

See I tend to think a guy's fundamentals show themselves fairly quickly. I think the hype surrounding both of the players in question was the results of their play, but that wasn't what had me excited about Chase and unexcited about Colt.

It was how they got their results. I felt like Chase showed some real solid fundamentals in both his footwork and his release. When pressured he was mobile and decisive. I felt like Colt had decent footwork, but his release and delivery was nightmarish and when pressured he chucked the ball up for grabs.

Having said all of that, Zorn was a clown. I don't think the guy made a single tough decision or had much control over the roster. I don't know that his opinion matters much in this discussion. But you are right, the coaches saw them everyday. The problem is, I don't think a competent coaching staff would have come to the same conclusion that Vinny and his band of monkeys did.

You don't think Zorn knows qbs? I would point out that he didn't seem to have a problem finding another job coaching qbs.

But you are wrong about a competent coaching staff coming to that decision. There is no doubt that scores of competent coaching staffs studied Chase in person and on film when he entered the nfl draft. And clearly all those competent coaching staffs determined that his chances of being successful in the nfl are very very low or someone would have taken a small chance and spent a measly 6th/7th rounder on him. Maybe popular opinion is wrong, but you can't deny that the popular professional opinion about chase daniel is that he won't cut it in the nfl.

So, given that, I don't particularly think the front office or zorn deserves to be attacked for cutting chase when it seems most nfl coaching staffs didn't even want to give him a chance. In fact, if you like chase you should probably pat vinny on the back because he is the one who picked up chase as an undrafted free agent and gave him his big chance.

Who knows, maybe chase will go through a late growth spurt this summer and come to camp next year able to see over the offensive line:)

[skin4ever]

1,638 (http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235) lol. ;)

classic..lmao.

[Keino]

You don't think Zorn knows qbs? I would point out that he didn't seem to have a problem finding another job coaching qbs.

But you are wrong about a competent coaching staff coming to that decision. There is no doubt that scores of competent coaching staffs studied Chase in person and on film when he entered the nfl draft. And clearly all those competent coaching staffs determined that his chances of being successful in the nfl are very very low or someone would have taken a small chance and spent a measly 6th/7th rounder on him. Maybe popular opinion is wrong, but you can't deny that the popular professional opinion about chase daniel is that he won't cut it in the nfl.

So, given that, I don't particularly think the front office or zorn deserves to be attacked for cutting chase when it seems most nfl coaching staffs didn't even want to give him a chance. In fact, if you like chase you should probably pat vinny on the back because he is the one who picked up chase as an undrafted free agent and gave him his big chance.

Who knows, maybe chase will go through a late growth spurt this summer and come to camp next year able to see over the offensive line:)


I trust Sean Peyton's evaluation of the QB position more than I do Zorn's. That said, we are talking comparative analysis here and so it's safe to say that neither player we are discussing was highly touted. So the context of my earlier comments should be viewed through the lens of what would have been better for the Redskins....keeping Colt or Chase. (Not that I think it had to be either/or, but it was to Vinny/Zorn) From that point of view, I saw enough of Chase to come away thinking that he was much more fundamentally solid than Colt. The big knock in him was his size, but in my mind that was mitigated by his mobility (See Brees, Drew and Flutie, Doug). Yet a competent coaching staff found a place for him on their roster.

Vinny gets no props for throwing crap at the wall. He also gets no credit for not keeping the better player of the two. While Zorn may have gotten a new QB coaching job, think about what that really says about him. He went from QB Coach to OC/HC and then back to QB Coach. I think that says a lot about his lack of ability as coach. Most who fail at HC don't go back to being a position coach, they usually land somewhere as a coordinator. Even still, I don't think he had much say over his final roster last season.

[Hr fan]

Don't want to get into a discussion about fo bias for Colt or Zorn's ability/power, etc. Just a personal opinion. When in Chase looked like a qb (pocket presence, decision making, etc.) while IMHO Colt didn't. Colt is a gunslinger which June Jones wanted - IMO he has almost no chance even in a developmental league should one exist. The odds are neither will be on an nfl roster for long. My opinion is strictly head-to-head.

[shally]

Don't want to get into a discussion about fo bias for Colt or Zorn's ability/power, etc. Just a personal opinion. When in Chase looked like a qb (pocket presence, decision making, etc.) while IMHO Colt didn't. Colt is a gunslinger which June Jones wanted - IMO he has almost no chance even in a developmental league should one exist. The odds are neither will be on an nfl roster for long. My opinion is strictly head-to-head.

too early to say much about either of them, except that Daniel will never be even as tall as Brees, and Colt will always throw the ball into traffic.

that said, i remember when both Delhomme and Bulger had stints with the Saints.. neither one of them looked to have starting potential early in their careers, yet both developed into solid starters.. you could have said the same about Trent Green in his first year or two with the Redskins. Stan Humphries, as well.

my point is that a lot of these guys are nothing more than end of roster qb's-- but some of them arent, and it is very hard to predict which is which--except in hindsight, when it is very easy to call someone a bum with no chance...

[Hr fan]

too early to say much about either of them, except that Daniel will never be even as tall as Brees, and Colt will always throw the ball into traffic.

that said, i remember when both Delhomme and Bulger had stints with the Saints.. neither one of them looked to have starting potential early in their careers, yet both developed into solid starters.. you could have said the same about Trent Green in his first year or two with the Redskins. Stan Humphries, as well.

my point is that a lot of these guys are nothing more than end of roster qb's-- but some of them arent, and it is very hard to predict which is which--except in hindsight, when it is very easy to call someone a bum with no chance...

+1. The toughest thing to do is project how a player will rerspond to change. Brandon Albert projected to be a very fine T now seen as a good G, his college position. It is much harder to project qbs. There are relatively few pro style college Os, and that is only a faint indicator of what will happen at pro speeds, number of plays, reads, etc., compared to college. Plus IMO guys that emerge late are a function more of getting into a good O (line, running game, etc.) than any late "I get it now". Bulger is an example - the Rams fall apart and he is suddenly very mortal where he was recently above serviceable.

[Patrick]

Bottomline - Colt will get a look at (again) - if he's worth keeping he'll be on the team IF NOT he'll be cut. The Skins can't afford NOT to look at every option.

[Fathead]

Bottomline - Colt will get a look at (again) - if he's worth keeping he'll be on the team IF NOT he'll be cut. The Skins can't afford NOT to look at every option.

Colt isn't an option. He's a waste of a roster spot.

[IowaSkinsFan]

While Zorn may have gotten a new QB coaching job, think about what that really says about him. He went from QB Coach to OC/HC and then back to QB Coach. I think that says a lot about his lack of ability as coach. Most who fail at HC don't go back to being a position coach, they usually land somewhere as a coordinator. Even still, I don't think he had much say over his final roster last season.

I also think Zorn realized he wasn't going to get any other gigs in the league either as OC or HC after the display. If he felt he was qualified for those positions, why would he settle so fast for a position job?

I think he knows he is maxed out in the NFL.

[Simosthegooner]

Colt isn't an option. He's a waste of a roster spot.

+1

2008 Sugar Bowl anyone?

[shally]

+1. The toughest thing to do is project how a player will rerspond to change. Brandon Albert projected to be a very fine T now seen as a good G, his college position. It is much harder to project qbs. There are relatively few pro style college Os, and that is only a faint indicator of what will happen at pro speeds, number of plays, reads, etc., compared to college. Plus IMO guys that emerge late are a function more of getting into a good O (line, running game, etc.) than any late "I get it now". Bulger is an example - the Rams fall apart and he is suddenly very mortal where he was recently above serviceable.

albert looks to be tried at RT this year... interesting you would mention him

[Keino]

Bottomline - Colt will get a look at (again) - if he's worth keeping he'll be on the team IF NOT he'll be cut. The Skins can't afford NOT to look at every option.

Keep Hope Alive Pat, keep hope alive....

I have a bottle of Patron that says that he won't make it past the first cuts.

[Patrick]

Keep Hope Alive Pat, keep hope alive....

I have a bottle of Patron that says that he won't make it past the first cuts.
At this point I'm not pulling for any player - as I said before - this team is hard pressed to even find 22 players worth keeping. I hoping BA has an eye for talent and able to obtain them while MS is good enough to mold them into a playoff caliber team AND hopefully it won't take more than three years.

[silverspring]

I trust Sean Peyton's evaluation of the QB position more than I do Zorn's. That said, we are talking comparative analysis here and so it's safe to say that neither player we are discussing was highly touted. So the context of my earlier comments should be viewed through the lens of what would have been better for the Redskins....keeping Colt or Chase. (Not that I think it had to be either/or, but it was to Vinny/Zorn) From that point of view, I saw enough of Chase to come away thinking that he was much more fundamentally solid than Colt. The big knock in him was his size, but in my mind that was mitigated by his mobility (See Brees, Drew and Flutie, Doug). Yet a competent coaching staff found a place for him on their roster.

Vinny gets no props for throwing crap at the wall. He also gets no credit for not keeping the better player of the two. While Zorn may have gotten a new QB coaching job, think about what that really says about him. He went from QB Coach to OC/HC and then back to QB Coach. I think that says a lot about his lack of ability as coach. Most who fail at HC don't go back to being a position coach, they usually land somewhere as a coordinator. Even still, I don't think he had much say over his final roster last season.

Sean Payton is surely a credible qb coach and more but I won't discredit zorn as a qb coach simply because he failed as a head coach. The two jobs are very different and he can be a great qb coach while being a horrible head coach. I agree that zorn probably didn't have much authority when it came to the roster, but i certainly think that if zorn wanted a 3rd qb the front office would have complied.

I disagree that this was a case where the redskins decided to keep one or the other. They stashed colt on IR and so he had no bearing on the roster whatsoever. In the end Chase wasn't competing for the roster spot, he simply got cut.

Chase might end up being something but i can't fault the skins coaching staff for cutting a guy who most coaching staffs didn't even think to give a chance to. As i said before the staff saw a lot more of him than us and i do think zorn is competent in that department. Personally, I simply didn't get to see enough of chase to form a strong opinion of him one way or another. i don't fault the staff for giving colt more playing time last year. I think colt earned that time the year before and in the end i think it was important because we saw colt brought back to reality.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see if either of these guys succeed. I will be curious to watch colt and chase during this preseason and more curious to see if they are on a roster come regular season.

By the way i would be curious to know if there are more qbs who are successful that are <6 foot vs ones with non-standard throwing motions. I would guess the numbers are similar. But I would think in today's nfl, as linemen on both sides of the ball are getting bigger, qb height is getting more important.

[shally]

Sean Payton is surely a credible qb coach and more but I won't discredit zorn as a qb coach simply because he failed as a head coach. The two jobs are very different and he can be a great qb coach while being a horrible head coach. I agree that zorn probably didn't have much authority when it came to the roster, but i certainly think that if zorn wanted a 3rd qb the front office would have complied.

I disagree that this was a case where the redskins decided to keep one or the other. They stashed colt on IR and so he had no bearing on the roster whatsoever. In the end Chase wasn't competing for the roster spot, he simply got cut.

Chase might end up being something but i can't fault the skins coaching staff for cutting a guy who most coaching staffs didn't even think to give a chance to. As i said before the staff saw a lot more of him than us and i do think zorn is competent in that department. Personally, I simply didn't get to see enough of chase to form a strong opinion of him one way or another. i don't fault the staff for giving colt more playing time last year. I think colt earned that time the year before and in the end i think it was important because we saw colt brought back to reality.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see if either of these guys succeed. I will be curious to watch colt and chase during this preseason and more curious to see if they are on a roster come regular season.

By the way i would be curious to know if there are more qbs who are successful that are <6 foot vs ones with non-standard throwing motions. I would guess the numbers are similar. But I would think in today's nfl, as linemen on both sides of the ball are getting bigger, qb height is getting more important.


throwing lanes.. it is all about throwing lanes.. i dont think that brees has any more passes batted down than some of the bigger qb's because he has a sense of movement and is able to find lanes to through through

[IowaSkinsFan]

throwing lanes.. it is all about throwing lanes.. i dont think that brees has any more passes batted down than some of the bigger qb's because he has a sense of movement and is able to find lanes to through through

Timing too shally, don't forget timing. The great QB's, the successful QB's, deliver the ball when they are supposed to. Hesitation is what allows lineman to get their arms up. Lineman are taught that if your progress is stopped, to get your arms up. The great QB's, the ball is already out by then. That is also why they take very few sacks or even big hits.

[shally]

Timing too shally, don't forget timing. The great QB's, the successful QB's, deliver the ball when they are supposed to. Hesitation is what allows lineman to get their arms up. Lineman are taught that if your progress is stopped, to get your arms up. The great QB's, the ball is already out by then. That is also why they take very few sacks or even big hits.

agree totally.. i dont want to start up the JC discussion, but i dont recall Brunell, who was a lot shorter than JC having a lot of passes knocked down.

bottom line is that even the tallest qb's are throwing from a point that is lower than DE's who are leaping up with their arms over their heads, so a qb has to do something to prvent this from happening a lot


by the way, it is great to have you back here as a regular poster.. you have definitely been missed

[IowaSkinsFan]

agree totally.. i dont want to start up the JC discussion, but i dont recall Brunell, who was a lot shorter than JC having a lot of passes knocked down.

bottom line is that even the tallest qb's are throwing from a point that is lower than DE's who are leaping up with their arms over their heads, so a qb has to do something to prvent this from happening a lot


by the way, it is great to have you back here as a regular poster.. you have definitely been missed

I think really tall QB's(6-4 and up) are at a disadvantage in a WCO considering all the short throws to backs, TE's and WR's all around the LOS. On a 6'5" QB like Campbell, consider how high the ball is when he is releasing it. Around 6'9", 6'10"??? Then if the ball is going to a back in front of the LB's or a quick slant, that ball is on a downward angle the moment it leaves his hand. It is asking to get batted down.

Thanks for the last part too!

[shally]

I think really tall QB's(6-4 and up) are at a disadvantage in a WCO considering all the short throws to backs, TE's and WR's all around the LOS. On a 6'5" QB like Campbell, consider how high the ball is when he is releasing it. Around 6'9", 6'10"??? Then if the ball is going to a back in front of the LB's or a quick slant, that ball is on a downward angle the moment it leaves his hand. It is asking to get batted down.

Thanks for the last part too!

you are welcome for sure

interesting about Campbells throws on slants-- if anything, i thought he left his receivers hung out because they WERE NOT down low enough-- which is where you want them to be to protect the receiver from harm

[IowaSkinsFan]

you are welcome for sure

interesting about Campbells throws on slants-- if anything, i thought he left his receivers hung out because they WERE NOT down low enough-- which is where you want them to be to protect the receiver from harm

Think about that angle and draw out the geometry. A ball starting off near 7' high and throwing down towards the ground over a distance of 10 yards. See what I mean? It's asking to get knocked down.

[shally]

Think about that angle and draw out the geometry. A ball starting off near 7' high and throwing down towards the ground over a distance of 10 yards. See what I mean? It's asking to get knocked down.

yup.. that pass HAS to be made quickly.. AND the OLman HAS to cut the legs out from under the DE.. that might be even more critical, and another reason why we executed it so poorly