He Gave Up

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Steve Spurrier has frustrated me before. He's driven me nuts before, too. He's baffled me. He's done things that have made absolutely no sense in my mind. He's been unrealistic, stubborn, and unresourceful. But today, today was the first time he ever really pissed me off. With seven minutes left in the fourth quarter, he gives up and sends Rob Johnson in. With nearly twice as much time as the Colts had last week in the same exact situation, Spurrier surrendered. He sent a message to our entire team that he didn't have the faith in us to do what he'd watched another NFL team do on TV. After Ramsey has proven again and again that he can lead us back from a fourth quarter deficit, Spurrier yanks him because he didn't think we could get it done. That was the most gutless, heartless, and faithless ecision I've ever seen a head coach make, and I fully believe we deserved ot lose if our coach thought that was the right decision. I've been saying the whole year that one of the best things I've seen in this team was heart. Not today. Not with that call.

Thanks for that message, Steve. Maybe in Buffalo our players will quit the first time the Bills score a touchdown.

[PennSkinsFan]

I would have too. This defense failed us today, period!

[ShaggySkins]

Spurrier was being smart. Ramsey was getting murdered out there. Every play he dropped back he was being hit. Our offensive line didn't know what they were blocking and the defense stopped playing in the 4th quarter. No point in leaving Ramsey out there to get seriously injured. This Bucs defense came to play they weren't going to fall asleep like they did aganist the Colts. And despite the gaudy numbers this offense is not at the Colts level either.

[Emmanouel8]

Shmoe THE difference is the bucs pass rush wasn't slowing down like it did last week. He was right in doing it IMO.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I don't think he was right. Do you think the Colts were looking at the positives last week? Do you think if you had asked a few Colts fans how the game was going when they were down 35-14, they would have said that obviously the Tampa D was getting worn out? Or that the Indy D was playing well? Not a chance.

[DallasSux]

spurrier pissed me off when he took ramsey out and he started to run the ball. i cant believe he gave up.

[NamVet4]

I reserve judgement until we get a report on Ramsey's condidtion. Bear in mind he has taking a Hammering! every week. He is our only good QB. Johnson justs fills the space.
We may never know his true physical condition, but I can understand Schmoe's point of view too! Did we as a team play that bad overall to warrant throwing in the towel? :smash:

[RichardBradley]

Maybe you didn't notice that Ramsey was playing awful in the second half

[Skinzaholic]

There are legitimate arguments for both sides... but if Ramsey had gotten hurt while trying to mount some incredible comeback against this defense then we might be singing a different tune.

Too easy to second guess him... we lost by then anyway.

[PennSkinsFan]

Gott admit, never before today have i felt such a lump in my chest, such a down feeling, such a shameful feeling. Take it for what it is worth, but I have never been more disappointed in the Redskins coaching staff than today. Steve Spurrie rsimply gave up, and George Edwards could not adjust to the resurgent Buc offense. Folks, this team is in trouble and Steve Spurrier is still in the college coaching ,mindset and it does not bode well. His play calling is still suspect, and he simply can not come up with a game plan to stop the pass rush. This is the only team in the NFL i know of that is SOOOOOOO susceptible to a blitz defense. Yes, other teams get blitzed and get hit hard, but it is bacause they have a crap OLine, we do not. We simply can't handle it because Steve Spurrier is not smart enough in the NFL to adjust and change the offense, or, he simply does not want to change his offense.

Call me what you want, blast me all you want, but I have never been and porbaly never will be high on Steve Spurrier!

[BigCountry]

I always wanted Parcells since Turner got fired. Seems like that wouldda been a good idea...

[native]

Spurrier has adjusted to the blitz before by keeping an extra back in. Why he didn't do it today, I don't know. But the offense didn't lose this game, the defensive game plan and coaching did.

[Odyn]

The situation is different between Manning and Ramsay. You don't really gain anything by sitting down Manning. Ramsay needed to sit down and realize what his throw did to the Redskin chances of making a comeback. He was throwing the ball into quadruple coverage whether his jersey was being grabbed or not. That throw was going to be intercepted. He needs to understand now what happens when you throw the ball up for grabs. I say sit down and come back next week with a lesson learned.

['SkinsSouth]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Gott admit, never before today have i felt such a lump in my chest, such a down feeling, such a shameful feeling. Take it for what it is worth, but I have never been more disappointed in the Redskins coaching staff than today. Steve Spurrie rsimply gave up, and George Edwards could not adjust to the resurgent Buc offense. Folks, this team is in trouble and Steve Spurrier is still in the college coaching ,mindset and it does not bode well. His play calling is still suspect, and he simply can not come up with a game plan to stop the pass rush. This is the only team in the NFL i know of that is SOOOOOOO susceptible to a blitz defense. Yes, other teams get blitzed and get hit hard, but it is bacause they have a crap OLine, we do not. We simply can't handle it because Steve Spurrier is not smart enough in the NFL to adjust and change the offense, or, he simply does not want to change his offense.

Call me what you want, blast me all you want, but I have never been and porbaly never will be high on Steve Spurrier!

I sort of understand what you mean about our O-line not being able to adjust to the blitz because Spurrier is too freakin' stubborn to leave backs in for max-protection..... But, I am TOTALLY disgusted by George Edwards and his disillusion-defense..... Why would you blitz ALL of the your linebackers on 3rd and 16!?! Not only he blitzed ALL of the LB's, but it seemed like the secondary was playing loose and far off their men (they were guarding) on the play, as well!! Speaking of the blitz--can this guy scheme-up some well-disguised blitzes to help out our pathetically-can't-get-pressure-on the QB defensive line!?! Geez!! And, it also seemed he never told no one on the defense to stay home on the backside (where the the Buc's were killing the 'Skins on the delayed Tight-End pass).... I know what I'm about to say has probably been mentioned in another thread, but the 'Skins aren't losing because of lack of talent.... They are losing because they are a undisciplined bunch and the D-line can't get ANY pressure on the opposing QB. Period!!

[Spence]

I agreed with replacing Ramsey. Not only was he getting beaten up, but he was starting to embarrass himself, too.

[rskinsfan10]

The decision to bench Ramsey at the stadium wasn't a positive one from the fans that remained. I'll leave it at that.

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by native
Spurrier has adjusted to the blitz before by keeping an extra back in. Why he didn't do it today, I don't know. But the offense didn't lose this game, the defensive game plan and coaching did.

He did keep an extra back in. A lot of time Betts was back there blocking but he just wasn't doing the job. Thats where atleast 2 of the sacks came from were on Betts.

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by Odyn
The situation is different between Manning and Ramsay. You don't really gain anything by sitting down Manning. Ramsay needed to sit down and realize what his throw did to the Redskin chances of making a comeback. He was throwing the ball into quadruple coverage whether his jersey was being grabbed or not. That throw was going to be intercepted. He needs to understand now what happens when you throw the ball up for grabs. I say sit down and come back next week with a lesson learned.

THIS GUY NAILED IT. Ramsey was pissed & rattled & new, Manning is cool-hand-luke & experienced - no comparison. Ramsey could have gotten hurt or develop bad habbits (he was beginning to act & play desperate). A good call in my view - got to keep your cool Ramsey. It's early he'll learn.

[Green-Is-Good]

I said way back in August that this guy is not fit to coach in the NFL.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by Spence
I agreed with replacing Ramsey. Not only was he getting beaten up, but he was starting to embarrass himself, too.

Embarrass himself? How? He threw a pick while he was being hit. Most common turnover in the league. And for the record, he wasn't throwing into quadruple coverage. There was a reciever open about ten yards further downfield, I'm pretty damn sure he was aiming to throw over the defenders standing in between. Whoever the reciever was had several yards of open space.

[Smiley]

Replacing Ramsey with Rob made sense. Giving up did not. i didn't understand it either. Rob has an arm, put the ball down field.

[REDMAN]

Tampa just took over the game guys, they are the world champs and we are not at that level yet. we are still in good shape, 3-3 is about where I thought we would be after 6 games.
Philly lost and the Giants got crushed. both of those teams have beaten us, but we are still up on them. Ram faced 2 very good defenses in Philly and Tampa.

[REDMAN]

I have read somewhere that SS does not pay attention to his opponents players. well he should have yesterday because leaving a back or a te to block rice was just plain bad coaching.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

I'd rather have seen a try at a comeback, but glad Ramsey is not hurt either.

At least we got to see a little of what Rob Johnson could do in the offense. I actually thought he looked pretty good. Except on the sack he got the ball of quickly, which is something he used to be horrible at. He also had a lot of zip and accuracy on his passes.

[capitol_cop]

I think the fans deserve a refund for their tickets if a team decides to throw in the towel that early. There was plenty of time left on the clock in the fourth quarter to at least try something other than a weak draw play.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by capitol_cop
I think the fans deserve a refund for their tickets if a team decides to throw in the towel that early. There was plenty of time left on the clock in the fourth quarter to at least try something other than a weak draw play.

Capitol . . . how come Lavar is on your Madden 2004? I have Madden 2004 for the pc and Lavar is NOT in it. Instead they have "linebacker #51" who is rated a 97.

[Emmanouel8]

Uh oh better get that 'angry mob' smiley soon...

Your right AZ, Ramsey looks jittery and uneasy going under center compared to R.J. , puke, he looked calm. I know he wasn't in the game getting pounded but a QB has to keep himself composed.

The biggest thing on offense that has to be addressed is the blocking schemes. I almost heaved when I saw one replay where the line was triple teaming the DT and left Rice to the TE?! We made Rice look All-World for crying out loud! Mismatches were created all day at the Bucs will. After half-time their coaches beat ours.

But Ramsey in turn has to get rid of the ball sooner. Is this kid out of his mind? He stared at oncoming rushes and held onto the ball like he was Michael Vick?! He can't get away from anybody on that D-line, throw it away.

[Emmanouel8]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
I don't think he was right. Do you think the Colts were looking at the positives last week? Do you think if you had asked a few Colts fans how the game was going when they were down 35-14, they would have said that obviously the Tampa D was getting worn out? Or that the Indy D was playing well? Not a chance.

The colts defense was actually stopping the bucs O. Our defense was pushed around the 2nd half. I agree w/ you to a point but I can't argue w/ Spurrier either. Our defense can't stop a soul, their defense is pummeling us.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Stopping the Bucs O? Not when it was 35-14. The Bucs were scoring in the first and second half up to that point. After that, yeah, the Bucs went cold. But at the five minute mark in the fourth quarter? No one would have given the Colts a shred of a chance. It still looked like complete and utter dominance by Tampa by then.

[capitol_cop]

Originally posted by capitol_cop
I think the fans deserve a refund for their tickets if a team decides to throw in the towel that early. There was plenty of time left on the clock in the fourth quarter to at least try something other than a weak draw play.


AZ fan...... You can edit players names and characteristics in this year's Madden. Just go to the team rosters section from the main menu and change his name from LB 51 to Lavar Arrington. I even added the dark facemask and changed his body type to make it more realistic. Once you change it, the announcers even say his name.

Capitol_Cop

[Patrick]

Pulling Ramsey was the only smart thing SS did yesterday.
You know sometimes when things are going bad and you try harder to make it better but it only gets worse ..... Well that was yesterday and Patrick was only making it worse.
AND IF anyone gave up yesterday it was our D. Until those stupid third and long situations in the 3rd quarter we were going toe to toe - IN FACT WINNING! But as soon as we gave that play (which lead to the BUC pulling ahead) our D just laid down and quit. BOTTOMLINE!

PS - I don't want my money back , I just want us to start playing some "GOOD" football.

[Skins57]

I agree the Qb change was a good move but giving up evenw ith Johnson in there is not what you want the fans to think you are doing

[hail2skins]

I did not like the pulling of Ramsey at first and then I thought about it and it made sense. I was hot when Spurrier did it and I was shouting all kinds of things at the sideline.

We cannot seem to put a full game together. We play a good half and that's it. I think the team gave up when Ramsey tried to hit Gardner but it was picked off. From that point on the D went downhill. I heard some alarming comments on the radio this morning. People were calling in and complaining about Arrington and the comment he made about the best team not winning that game. Also, there were some interesting comments on the D too, especially the linebackers. Seems people have issues with the linebackers and their freedom to freelance at times. Also, they have to make most of the tackles and provide the pass rush because of our dline. They feel the linebackers are in a tough position being pulled in two different directions.

I did not like seeing Spurrier throw in the towel so early and neither did the fans that remained until the end. I had a friend at the game and she said she never heard home team fans boo their team before.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Obviously your friend has never been to Philadelphia.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't like the call. Were the odds that we would repeat what the Colts did good? No. Obviously not. But until now, I was proud of this team's heart. I loved it. I was ecstatically happy over the fact that for once, the Skins had a don't quit, never-say-die attitude. My thoughts were shattered twice yesterday. Once, when the D made the piss-poor performance in the second half. The worse one, however, was Spurrier's yanking of Ramsey. It sends a very, very clear message to our team. Our head coach doesn't have faith that the team can do the exact same thing that another NFL team did a week ago. He doesn't think we're good enough. Some of you would say he was just being realistic and was cxutting his losses. Some of you would say that he's right, that we're not good enough. And I'd have my doubts too. But the head coach blatantly signalling that he has no faith in his own team is possibly the single worst message that could have been sent yesterday.

[hail2skins]

I agree with you Joe on the message that is sent to the team.

By the way folks, Spurrier yanked Ramsey against Ramsey's will. He objected to it but Spurrier told him he didn't want him to get hurt so rest and we'll live to fight another battle.

That is fine with me after I thought about it. But why put Rob in to just hand off the ball and throw little quick passes. That was the biggest white flag that I've ever seen raised.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Yeah, if Rob had gone in and started airing it out downfield I wouldn't have been so pissed. But not only did Spurrier yank our starting QB, he put in the backup to run the clock out.

[hail2skins]

Yep, and here's the other part. I believe Tampa really want to score again with their ground game. They could have lined up in the "V" victory formation and take the kneel downs but they didn't.

[dj_stouty]

When you see a team score FOUR consecutive touchdowns...while also watching their Defense deflate our offense, there IS no chance for a comeback. Especially with only 8 minutes left in the game. Pulling Ramsey was a smart move.

I'd love to see some of your reactions, had SS left him in the game, only to have him injured for the season on another sack. Then we would all hear: "Why the hell didn't Spurrier pull Ramsey when the game was out of reach?" I guess when it comes to Spurrier...he is damned if he does...and damned if he doesn't.

[Emmanouel8]

But why put Rob in to just hand off the ball and throw little quick passes. That was the biggest white flag that I've ever seen raised

Probably b/c Ramsey would have audibled into another TD pass to Derrick Brooks.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Not really, DJ. I've seen a couple Spurrier bashers on this board, but a lot of us aren't, including me. I like the guy. But I think it was a very bad move for him to make.

And E8, yesterday was the first time Ramsey's audibles consistently worked. Both his interceptions were thrown as he got hit. What more does he have to do to escape you blaming him?

[rskinsfan10]

Well, from Spurrier's own mouth, he felt that there wsn't a chance for a comeback, and he wanted to save Ramsey from further injury. I think that it was the right move. What I didn't agree with was running the ball with Johnson at the helm. He should have been throwing it down field hoping for a miracle.

[Emmanouel8]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe

And E8, yesterday was the first time Ramsey's audibles consistently worked. Both his interceptions were thrown as he got hit. What more does he have to do to escape you blaming him?

I'm not blaming him in this instance just pointing out why RJ is in there handing off and not Ramsey. Nobody escapes me BUT since you asked

1. Throw to the checkdown
2. Get rid of the ball quicker when facing obvious pressure.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8

1. Throw to the checkdown
2. Get rid of the ball quicker when facing obvious pressure.

I agree.

[Hailyeah]

Too much debate over what was done when the score was already 35-13. Keep Ram in, pull him, doesn't matter. As we all know, the Colts comeback was a total aberation. A fluke. That's why no such comback with 4 minutes left had ever been done before. Get that outta your minds. I also think that after a beatdown of that magnitude, any 'Ra Ra' fight to the end messages would be in vein. They were all going to be down and out no matter what. The team lacked heart by getting destroyed so thoroughly and easily in the 2nd half. Keeping Ram in there would not have restored any of it. Humpty Dumpty was already broken.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Ok I say that by and far before Ramsey was pulled he was sacked 6 or 7 times.Thats not counting how many times he was hit or hurried.This being said SS still hadnt pulled him.The D gave up long before SS pulled PR.He pulled him to protect him from further injury.That should send a message to both our o-line and our backs.IMO thats where the problem is plain and simple.That and the lack of a pass rush it's a good thing our lb's are so good b/c average ones couldnt do as much as ours are expected to.If there is a problem with the coaching in my mind it is in being too laid back in our approach.I know SS can be firery I just wonder if he needs to consistently light a fire under his staff and his team not just his qb's.Bottom line SS can coach his line isnt blocking some (pro-bowlers i might add)of the same players were in this system last year and we ran less.That isnt SS fault.And you know bruce knows how to sack the qb he just cant.Infact everyone on the d-line has shown flashes but seem to tire out or something.Not SS fault.Secondry cant cover them all day long and th LB's cant be the only pass rush and still be prepared to stop the run or defend the pass on the same play its like there just running them ragged.All in all SS suits me just fine,but then again i liked Marty(so did LaVar)just not his offensive coordinater.He did the right thing in not leaving Pat in.The team hasnt gotten any of his other messages so i doubt if this had sent a bad one they wouldve gotten it.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by capitol_cop
AZ fan...... You can edit players names and characteristics in this year's Madden. Just go to the team rosters section from the main menu and change his name from LB 51 to Lavar Arrington. I even added the dark facemask and changed his body type to make it more realistic. Once you change it, the announcers even say his name.

Capitol_Cop

VERY COOL . . . THANX!!!

[NamVet4]

Originally posted by Hailyeah
Too much debate over what was done when the score was already 35-13. Keep Ram in, pull him, doesn't matter. As we all know, the Colts comeback was a total aberation. A fluke. That's why no such comback with 4 minutes left had ever been done before. Get that outta your minds. I also think that after a beatdown of that magnitude, any 'Ra Ra' fight to the end messages would be in vein. They were all going to be down and out no matter what. The team lacked heart by getting destroyed so thoroughly and easily in the 2nd half. Keeping Ram in there would not have restored any of it. Humpty Dumpty was already broken.

A lot of good points.....
by everyone so far.....
but, guess what, $%1#, happens...... so we get over it.
I am pissed more by the defense doing so poorly. :banghead:

I am pissed by the coaching staff letting 3 naked bootlegswomp on us!
:banghead:
So,I'll join the rest of you and now try to get over it.

:banghead: