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View Full Version : Akh's Thoughts: 2nd preseason game


akhhorus
08-22-2010, 11:41 AM
Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=810)

Guff on!

firehawk157
08-22-2010, 12:14 PM
Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=810)

Guff on!

Nothing I disagree with honestly. Reed Doughty and Philip Buchanon were OBVIOUSLY targeted and that, to me, is concerning. Now that Kareem Moore is likely out 4-6 weeks, we need to consider a vet replacement. We simple can't move Landry out because he looks like an absolute terror in the box.

One thing that struck me is how we may actually have a good rotation at WR. Banks is downright dangerous, Moss has been effective and like I said in the other thread, Armstrong has been torching people. I think Thomas has looked decent. It's funny how having a borderline elite QB suddenly makes everything look good.

Larry Johnson is on life support. He didn't do ANYTHING well.

jtovb2005
08-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Looks good. I am concerned about the defense to tell you the truth. We seem vulnerable on the outside and I am not impressed on depending on Golston for example. Still not much of a pass rush so far? They do seem to have hope to do better than last year but still make me worried.

Armstrong is the real thing it seems. He will be staying around. I am not so down on Thomas but he so far is not looking like our next #1 receiver for years to come. Good enough though right now. Moss looked fine to me also? he made some good plays, not perfect but ok. if he can make plays like that each week he is ok. I think one problem with him the past couple of years is he has not performed each week like you need your number 1 guy to do.

Yep, Johnson had no burst. Nothing to come of him this year as a full time guy. How about Torian? He looked very good to me last week? He did not seem to get in last night. I would be surprised if either Johnson or Parker will have any real impact on the team this year. one if not both will not make the team.

I am not so down on poor Doughty but god he looked horrible out there. He even seemed to show frustration in himself on a few plays. he has his uses I guess and we will be stuck with him unless someone plays clearly better than him. I know most of you would say that is not so hard lol but he keeps making the team.

Oh yea Mcnabb make things much different. JC just didn't seem to be able to make the plays Mcnabb does. This is not about mechanics but those good old intangibles.

jaylen
08-22-2010, 12:45 PM
Man you must be in my brain I agree totally with this analysis here. Sellars is done he should be cut how can another regime watch film and rationalize him continuing to get playing time. On the one short yardage play he just basically fell down and didn't block anyone. On another play he got blown up had his pads too high. I wonder has he always been this bad or does he have an injury thats preventing him from lowering his pads and actualy driving his man back. Its a real issue.

you're right AKH LJ looks done. I was't impressed with Torain. Keiland Williams shows good burst and the ability to break arm tackles. Portis even on just that one run for 10 yards shoed burst. I'm not sure we got a back who can catch those dump offs Mcnabb likes to throw though which might become a problem.

We need to consider putting Armstrong under wraps. he can play I"m sold lts not show too much with him. Thomas needs to get focused as well. Great call on banks getting some balls during the season in the slot.

I just hope we can put the best players in the best spots instead of forcing guys into roles their unfit for.

Wilson to me is clearly the best option at outside lb. carter is an eye sore in the game. we've trained and developed Wilson he pops everytime I see him play instead we're looking at the prospect of having 2 Olb's who are de's that take that extra sec each time before making a deicion on the field and thats gonna get us beat. Rak has improved as a pass rusher but in space and in coverage nothing has changed. but we can't have him and Carter on the field.

the safety position is a major concern now. how we could be caught with only one on the roster is beyond me. Douthy is terrible and how he's hung around so long is a mystery. he's become the new Renaldo Wynn and Phillip Daniels. Moore is just fragile. time to move on from him after this season if he can't stay healthy.

agree on Gholston as well. not sure why other than character why he's starting anyway.

overall I don't feel good about this team. I think we're better this year but with what the problems are with good health how are we any better than 8-8.

jtovb2005
08-22-2010, 01:14 PM
... I was't impressed with Torain...

I am not trying to make him a Mason like guy but what was wrong with him last week? I got a little distracted from watching the end of the game last night but I didn't think I saw him run the ball last night so I am just going by last week. Me and my buddy kind of thought he did ok.

akhhorus
08-22-2010, 01:18 PM
One thing that struck me is how we may actually have a good rotation at WR. Banks is downright dangerous, Moss has been effective and like I said in the other thread, Armstrong has been torching people. I think Thomas has looked decent. It's funny how having a borderline elite QB suddenly makes everything look good.


And an offensive staff who isn't 50% brain dead.

Larry Johnson is on life support. He didn't do ANYTHING well.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's cut. Especially with Portis looking primed for a big season.


Looks good. I am concerned about the defense to tell you the truth. We seem vulnerable on the outside and I am not impressed on depending on Golston for example. Still not much of a pass rush so far? They do seem to have hope to do better than last year but still make me worried.

They need to get Haynesworth in with the starters and replace Carter with Jarmon or Wilson(I prefer Wilson).


overall I don't feel good about this team. I think we're better this year but with what the problems are with good health how are we any better than 8-8.

I'm still standing by my 10 win prediction after 2 preseason games. McNabb put up 200+ yards in one half against one of the best defenses in the NFL. There's no part of the team that looks like a disaster area, they just need some tweaking.

I am not trying to make him a Mason like guy but what was wrong with him last week? I got a little distracted from watching the end of the game last night but I didn't think I saw him run the ball last night so I am just going by last week. Me and my buddy kind of thought he did ok.

Torain looked good last week. I have no problem with him and Williams replacing Parker/Johnson.

Hr fan
08-22-2010, 01:18 PM
Fine work, especially in remaining analytical when the performance was disappointing. As you note this is preseason, and watching for signs that the O and D schemes are coming around, and that (hopefully) players are developing is a more correct mode than watching the score. Btw I thought Harbaugh was cheesy on the fake punt. As noted this wasn't for points, nor will they use it during the year or they wouldn't have run it preseason. It was a slap at Shanny, who IMO will remember.

IMO depth charts mean little except how do single role backups fit with the first string. Maybe Golston/Carter, etc., are showing they don't fit and as you note are at career crisis ponits.

Love your view of t. Williams vs WAPO writers. Agree with you, not with them.

As I have said in several threads IMO Allehan are not done aquiring talent. FS, OLB, C, b/u OL, FB, WR (though Moss, Banks, Thomas, Armstrong are emerging IMO, Thomas showing downfield blocking for instance). I am waiting on Mawae (can't you hear the draft/youth only members already).

Like Hicks but consider his veersatility most suited to backup, so IMO we need a starting LG. Also hopefully the lack of Capers/Cook sightings is to get them on the ps, not a reflection on how well they are developing their potential.

The Jets will be a good test now that the team sees everyone is not an injured Buffalo.

Again, thanks for your informed insights. I like others on this site rely on them.

Death_Venom
08-22-2010, 01:33 PM
I unfortunately did not see the game. But according to Redskins.com "McNabbs passing seems troubling". Do you attribute that McNabb, the WR's, or just pre-season offensive jelling?

BurgundyNGold
08-22-2010, 02:05 PM
Nothing I disagree with honestly. Reed Doughty and Philip Buchanon were OBVIOUSLY targeted and that, to me, is concerning. Now that Kareem Moore is likely out 4-6 weeks, we need to consider a vet replacement. We simple can't move Landry out because he looks like an absolute terror in the box.

One thing that struck me is how we may actually have a good rotation at WR. Banks is downright dangerous, Moss has been effective and like I said in the other thread, Armstrong has been torching people. I think Thomas has looked decent. It's funny how having a borderline elite QB suddenly makes everything look good.

Larry Johnson is on life support. He didn't do ANYTHING well.
I somewhat agree with this, except 2 of the 4 names weren't here last season. You could make the argument that 2 new out of 3 receivers (I'll talk about Thomas in a minute) changes that paradigm, as well.

As for Thomas, he looks the same to me as he did last year. He's still not justifying his draft position or a shot at 1st team status. This is Year 3 for him. He should be pulling down 6 for 80 every game at a minimum. Anything less is failure.

Gravy
08-22-2010, 02:17 PM
"Death, Taxes and Reed Doughty still canít cover in the passing game." Absoluletly Correct and funny! Rabach scares me and not in a good way. It's possible that after watching AA, that M Kelly might be out of a job. Question how much do you think they are holding back or is that silly? Good as always, thanks for your time.

akhhorus
08-22-2010, 02:23 PM
Fine work, especially in remaining analytical when the performance was disappointing. As you note this is preseason, and watching for signs that the O and D schemes are coming around, and that (hopefully) players are developing is a more correct mode than watching the score. Btw I thought Harbaugh was cheesy on the fake punt. As noted this wasn't for points, nor will they use it during the year or they wouldn't have run it preseason. It was a slap at Shanny, who IMO will remember.

All I was looking at two things last night:
-How did the starters look?
-Who among the backups is emerging?

Next week will be different, but I really didn't care about the score.

Love your view of t. Williams vs WAPO writers. Agree with you, not with them.


Anytime a rookie can rodeo Terrell Suggs and keep him out of the play, he's doing a fine job. To think anything else is insanity imo.

As I have said in several threads IMO Allehan are not done aquiring talent. FS, OLB, C, b/u OL, FB, WR (though Moss, Banks, Thomas, Armstrong are emerging IMO, Thomas showing downfield blocking for instance). I am waiting on Mawae (can't you hear the draft/youth only members already).


They only really need help at OC and FS right now. I think that there's enough everywhere else. If a good OG is cut, I would consider signing him.

Again, thanks for your informed insights. I like others on this site rely on them.

Welcome.

I unfortunately did not see the game. But according to Redskins.com "McNabbs passing seems troubling". Do you attribute that McNabb, the WR's, or just pre-season offensive jelling?

The latter. Its not like McNabb was just flat out missing guys, he was just a few inches off(and there were some drops).


As for Thomas, he looks the same to me as he did last year. He's still not justifying his draft position or a shot at 1st team status. This is Year 3 for him. He should be pulling down 6 for 80 every game at a minimum. Anything less is failure.

I agree, but I think if Armstrong emerges, Moss settles into that slot role and a health dose of Davis/Cooley, they could play Thomas at the Y and deal with his growing pains.

"Death, Taxes and Reed Doughty still canít cover in the passing game." Absoluletly Correct and funny! Rabach scares me and not in a good way. It's possible that after watching AA, that M Kelly might be out of a job. Question how much do you think they are holding back or is that silly? Good as always, thanks for your time.

I don't think we've seen anything close to the full playbook on either side. We're seeing, imo, the basics.

BurgundyNGold
08-22-2010, 02:34 PM
I agree, but I think if Armstrong emerges, Moss settles into that slot role and a health dose of Davis/Cooley, they could play Thomas at the Y and deal with his growing pains.
That would be fine for this year, but that's not really the greater point I'm trying to make. Thomas should be making his quantum leap this year. He shouldn't have any more growing pains. I'm hoping he can get his focus on and be the player that, physically, he should be right now.

Great column, BTW. You and I saw many of the same things. I have no idea what WaPo is seeing.

akhhorus
08-22-2010, 02:39 PM
That would be fine for this year, but that's not really the greater point I'm trying to make. Thomas should be making his quantum leap this year. He shouldn't have any more growing pains. I'm hoping he can get his focus on and be the player that, physically, he should be right now.


I agree, and this is his last shot.

Great column, BTW. You and I saw many of the same things. I have no idea what WaPo is seeing.

The scoreboard and nothing else.

silverspring
08-22-2010, 03:11 PM
Good write up.
-I can't agree more about the 2 TE sets. For years now, I haven't understood why we don't see more of this, especially considering our woes at WR. This year, I think it is even more important to offset the diminutive size of our WRs.

-Very exciting to see 2 speedy additions of banks and armstrong. Although I do have my doubts if banks will survive nfl hits.

-I continue to be concerned about the oline depth. I can't imagine why they would pull brown out if he was healthy. Heyer did look ok, but that seems to be the story of heyer. One game he makes you think he is making progress, the next week he gets your qb killed. As you point out tackle isn't our only issue. I was shocked when I saw Rabach elected to offensive player of the year for last year. What crackhead made that decision?

-From what I have read capers has been incredibly bad in camp. Maybe they just don't think he is ready for pre-season.

-I thought Mcnabb looked poor. He not only had accuracy problems but also threw into some dangerous coverage.

-Too bad sellers is still struggling as he did during last season. I think this is probably his last year with the team. I hope he turns it around, because I enjoy watching him play when he is on.

-I don't know what to think about our running back situation. I think shanny is going to have a tough decision in figuring out who to keep outside of portis. And the decision won't be tough because so many players are impressive but rather the opposite.

-I sure hope moore isn't seriously injured, but I am not as concerned about doughty as yourself. He always seems to step up and surprise with solid performances when we need him too.

edit: also real unfortunate that carter is a casualty of the scheme change. Kind of frustrating.

jtovb2005
08-22-2010, 03:49 PM
We have not mentioned the missed FG. it was from just where we want to see a try made in the preseason. only 1 I know and I guess nothing to establish a pattern over but....

ihatedallas
08-22-2010, 05:54 PM
The observation regarding the offensive intensity is what I took from last nights game. The third and longs really demonstrated a striking difference in coaching and personnel. McNabb did an excellent job staying composed, it was refreshing.

LJ sucked. He dropped a pass, let McNabb get creamed, fumbled, and did an awful job running the football. I have high hopes from him but this was NOT how he wanted his first start to go...

Trent looked awesome. He put Suggs where he wanted to every play, and showed a composed confidence. Heyer played well, but I still thought our best drives and steady offense was when Brown was in. Not saying Heyer was the reason we had some breakdowns in the later drives, but our starting 5 created excellent pockets for McNabb. The running game is a huge concern, and playing the Jets next week - that wont aid the running game development.

I think the defense played well. The running game is shaky, but they did a good job corralling and swarming. They held a pretty good offense to 6 points (screw that fake FG). The only issue I see as troubling is the Dline isnt coming together. Kemo looks ok, and I think Carriker will settle in, but Gholston, as you said, isnt built to hold the end. Haynesworth irritated me yesterday. Hes a monster when healthy and motivated, and its annoying that the feud with Shanny/his pouting are preventing us from having an extremely valuable asset on the field.

Skinz4lyfe
08-22-2010, 06:05 PM
I thought the Ravens were clearly trying to make a statement last night. They blitzed early and often. Plus, they had the fake FG. They even gave Zorn a gatorade bath IN A PRESEASON GAME. That said I believe we weren't ready for the amount of blitzes we saw (McNabb said as much) but handled ourselves pretty well when the 1st stringers were in. The only mild concern is our running game but I suspect that'll improve as our O-line plays together more often. Let's hope Armstrong will continue to improve because he did a good job for the 2nd week in a row. Could be a diamond in the rough.

OCSKINSFAN
08-22-2010, 06:05 PM
Great summary and analysis as usual. I agree with all your points.

Capers did play for I believe 1 3-play series. Unfortunately, he looked bad on all 3 plays.

I think it is wishful thinking to believe Rabach won't be the starting center. He is just too well regarded ("offensive player of the year") and is clearly the most familiar with the offense and line calls.

Shay Hodge also has not been seen to date. Is he being hidden or just taking up space?

Patrick
08-22-2010, 07:35 PM
*Either the skins need to have Rabach compete with Lichtensteiger for the Center’s job(and btw, Lichtensteiger has been rather impressive so far), or they need to sign Kevin Mawae. Rabach just isn’t cutting it at Center. After the Ravens gave up trying to penetrate Williams, they focused on blitzing up the middle.

Ummmmm - haven't I been saying this for two years now and he only get worse. I would really like to see Skins target the best center coming out next year.

Redskinmayhem
08-22-2010, 07:38 PM
*Either the skins need to have Rabach compete with Lichtensteiger for the Centerís job(and btw, Lichtensteiger has been rather impressive so far), or they need to sign Kevin Mawae. Rabach just isnít cutting it at Center. After the Ravens gave up trying to penetrate Williams, they focused on blitzing up the middle.

Ummmmm - haven't I been saying this for two years now and he only get worse. I would really like to see Skins target the best center coming out next year.

yep, Rab isn't getting it done. He gets shoved back 3-5 yds on EVERY play.

Taylor21TheUndertaker
08-22-2010, 08:16 PM
I was watching here and there via streams and caught some of the game on nfl network via my droid x this mornin and shockingly, I didnt see a bootleg.

That out n up that they called when mcnabb overthew AA on 3rd and long was just refreshing to my eyes to see a great play call.

TrueOracle
08-22-2010, 08:58 PM
Akh - Good look on the write-up.

Doughty - Why he's in the NFL is a mystery to me. Anyone saying he's a starter on this team clearly has a man crush. He's NEVER been able to cover his own shadow, let alone a WR. He's like a Bill Bates minus any meaningful intangibles.

LJ - Now I know we were playing one of the better D's in the league. True. BUT, dude looked awful with and without the ball. He couldn't pick up a single defender when having a choice of two. Sunk costs... get rid of him and let's go younger.

CP - when he's in the game, everyone knows it. He's a footballer. There is no competition (which is why I love CP). When he gives you his best, there are few better - and none of them are playing for us.

Armstrong - The kid has the makings of being a beast. Once the timing is down with DMcNabb, that kid can flat-out roll you. We need to let M. Kelly go - he stays hurt and even when he's in a game, he's so-so. Certainly not worth investing anymore time in.

D. Thomas - is this kid the new 50-50 aka Rod Gardner? A 100% of the time you don't know if he'll catch it 50% of the time? Maybe we can just call him anchorman? Seriously, reading his post-game interviews, he reads like he's one step away; like he's a real footballer. I don't know where this confidence comes from? At best he's 3/4 receiver rotation guy. Not sure of when, or if ever, will this guy turn into a legitimate starter and not one that won by attrition.

T. Williams - Makings of a BEAST!!! 'nuf said.

AH - Nothing can be said that hasn't already been said. Let's get a good year or two out of the malcontent and then get rid of him. He's an epic ass.

F.Davis - Young but should continue to grow. Like D Thomas, I think he thinks he's better than he is. But unlike D. Thomas, he has TREMENDOUS upside.

Cooley - Welcome back, Sir!!! You will always be the man in DC.

McNabb - Good times are here again!!! We're ecstatic you're here (And I loved JC, too.)

Fletcher - Pay the man!!! A TRUE footballer.

Rogers - I think he's in for a pro-bowl year. Haslett called him his man... Maybe that's all he needed.

akhhorus
08-22-2010, 09:52 PM
Akh - Good look on the write-up.

Thanks man

Doughty - Why he's in the NFL is a mystery to me. Anyone saying he's a starter on this team clearly has a man crush. He's NEVER been able to cover his own shadow, let alone a WR. He's like a Bill Bates minus any meaningful intangibles.

I think he has incriminating pictures of Roger Goodell.

F.Davis - Young but should continue to grow. Like D Thomas, I think he thinks he's better than he is. But unlike D. Thomas, he has TREMENDOUS upside.


I don't think thats fair to Davis. Davis has put it together, Thomas hasn't.

jaylen
08-22-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm also curious as to why Galloway has it made he appears to have nailed down his spot when was the last season he did anything relevant . He has no catches in the preseason. I know he's not on easy street based on his resume alone is he. I'm very skeptical of him anyway he sorta has the Moss short arms in the middle of the field at this point as well.

redskin_rich
08-23-2010, 01:44 AM
Great stuff, Akh!
You must have DVR'ed the game and rewatched parts to have such an informative account on so many players. We need to get you doing some live game coverage here. Or better yet, get you, me and BNG on a live podcast, lol.

I think the days of Moss running past defenders is over but he looks to be doing a good job running the mid range flag patterns.

Cooley is going to have a huge year but Donavon needs to stop putting the ball so high or Cooley won't last.

Davis has the speed and athleticism to be better than Cooley but it will be another year or two. Best thing he can do is pattern himself like Cooley in his practice routine.

Armstrong... Wow! That is the first time I can remember seeing Donavon under-throw a receiver so much, yet Armstrong made an incredible adjustment to get that ball. Dude is for real. He is our long ball threat.

On defense, yeah, Carter is useless as an OLB. He really doesn't have a role in this defense.

Golston is nothing more than a sub player.

That's all I can comment on for now, I was with a group and didn't see every play of the game.

Moe
08-23-2010, 09:35 AM
Good write up and I agree on many of your points.

The O:
-anyone else starting to lose that overbearing sense of dread and despair when the offense has the ball, especially on 3rd downs? They were so impotent the last few years, but that is being removed in a few quarters of pre-season ball already. The playcalling makes sense, guys are in position to make plays and there is execution. Jebus, I had forgotten what it was like.

-Williams accounted for himself well against Suggs. As you said, his speed is really impressive but he does need some work in his power sets and in the run game but it appears more a technique thing rather than something fundamentally unattainable.

-Portis looks renewed, LJ was meh. Assuming one of Torain/Williams gets the nod and the other goes to PS/street, I like the way Williams runs better. Part of it is that Torain runs so upright, whereas Williams seems to ball up and power through on the inside runs.

-Moss struck me as looking slower as well, but agree with your assessment of him.

-My buddy who is a 'Boys fan texted me saying that the Cooley/McNabb connection has him concerned. :)

-Heyer has been a revelation. Two weeks in a row he's looked like a different player. Hate to hate on Buges, but I think he made some miscues with some of these guys and maybe we're seeing a coaching change that might make a world of difference.

The D:
-Landry really stood out. He looks to be playing much more instinctively and I suspect he'll have a much better year.

-Rogers also looks energized and I think slotting him inside will really help. DeLo also looked aggressive and it was nice to see him really throw his body into some tackles last night.

-Carter....body of Adonis but he simply doesn't fit in space or in transition. I'd like to see them flip him and Orakpo around the line on rush duties but he's a target when not attacking forward.

-Nice to see Rocky make some plays, hopefully he'll not be a no-show this week.

-I couldn't keep track of the many bodies they were rotating in on d-line beyond the initial starters but there seems to be some tough decisions to make there which is a good probem to have.

GibbsFan
08-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Good stuff as usual Akh,

The 1 D unit looked much better against the Ravens. Maybe we can be productive in this alignment.

Carter does not fit the 3-4 at all. He is too stiff at OLB and too small for DE. Trade him for a vet FS, I have to think he will agree to trade at this point. I agree with Chris Wilson as the best we have opposite Rak.

Doubty is terrible and we don't have anyone else other than rogers who I would trust at the spot. Ideally you would like better hands than rogers out of your deep safety plus we are just too damn thin at corner anyway.

LJ, Buchananon, Thomas, Rabach, and Sellers all had gawd awful games. Thomas makes too many mental errors for my taste. all of these guys better start showing something or they could be in trouble.

Ok so Rabach will probably make the roster for depth but he could lose his starting job. Sellers is dead weight imo maybe LJ can play FB LOL. Cooley could also be an option at FB to get the best 11 on the field.

Armstrong and Banks need to be on the week 1 roster or we could be in trouble. I'm guessing Shanny keeps Galloway, Wade or Roydell, and Moss. Thomas could be the odd man out and you can stick a fork in Kelly.

Overall, I'm happy with what I see. Our depth is questionable at best at OL, LB, QB, and DB but I see some stuff we can build on. Barring injuries, we will be a much more competitive team.

oldskinfan
08-23-2010, 12:05 PM
Good write-up. I think Doughty gets a little slack just because of his versatility / coachability and he plays ST. I can see us keeping Moore, Doughty, Landry and Horton.

akhhorus
08-23-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm also curious as to why Galloway has it made he appears to have nailed down his spot when was the last season he did anything relevant . He has no catches in the preseason. I know he's not on easy street based on his resume alone is he. I'm very skeptical of him anyway he sorta has the Moss short arms in the middle of the field at this point as well.

I think he may make the team, but hes not going to be in the rotation a whole lot, and if Kelly shows anything, he's on the cut list.


Great stuff, Akh!
You must have DVR'ed the game and rewatched parts to have such an informative account on so many players. We need to get you doing some live game coverage here. Or better yet, get you, me and BNG on a live podcast, lol.

That only would work if the 3 of us drank during the game lmao

I think the days of Moss running past defenders is over but he looks to be doing a good job running the mid range flag patterns.

Cooley is going to have a huge year but Donavon needs to stop putting the ball so high or Cooley won't last.

Davis has the speed and athleticism to be better than Cooley but it will be another year or two. Best thing he can do is pattern himself like Cooley in his practice routine.


Agreed on all counts.


Good write up and I agree on many of your points.

The O:
-anyone else starting to lose that overbearing sense of dread and despair when the offense has the ball, especially on 3rd downs? They were so impotent the last few years, but that is being removed in a few quarters of pre-season ball already. The playcalling makes sense, guys are in position to make plays and there is execution. Jebus, I had forgotten what it was like.


Leadership, leadership, leadership. Something that the skins have lacked for years.

-Williams accounted for himself well against Suggs. As you said, his speed is really impressive but he does need some work in his power sets and in the run game but it appears more a technique thing rather than something fundamentally unattainable.

Thats a good point, I think that it could be a combo of new system/technique.

-Portis looks renewed, LJ was meh. Assuming one of Torain/Williams gets the nod and the other goes to PS/street, I like the way Williams runs better. Part of it is that Torain runs so upright, whereas Williams seems to ball up and power through on the inside runs.


Portis is one thing I haven't seen discussed a whole lot: he's looked fantastic.


Good stuff as usual Akh,

The 1 D unit looked much better against the Ravens. Maybe we can be productive in this alignment.

Carter does not fit the 3-4 at all. He is too stiff at OLB and too small for DE. Trade him for a vet FS, I have to think he will agree to trade at this point. I agree with Chris Wilson as the best we have opposite Rak.


Not a bad idea. Im sure the Saints would consider taking Carter for someone like Usama Young.


Armstrong and Banks need to be on the week 1 roster or we could be in trouble. I'm guessing Shanny keeps Galloway, Wade or Roydell, and Moss. Thomas could be the odd man out and you can stick a fork in Kelly.

I don't think Wade and Roydell make it. Moss, Armstrong, Thomas, Galloway, Banks, Austin(maybe) and maybe Kelly.


Good write-up. I think Doughty gets a little slack just because of his versatility / coachability and he plays ST. I can see us keeping Moore, Doughty, Landry and Horton.

I think that they'll try to keep another safety.

Battle Cat
08-23-2010, 04:28 PM
I did not see the Moss losing a step thing much less 2. On the pass that McNabb got intercepted on if he puts more air under the ball and throws it farther Moss walks into the end zone. If Moss has lost a step we are in trouble because he is still by far our fastest reciever. Maybe Banks is close but he is to small to be anything but a specialty player. Until another reciever steps up Moss is going to see a safety over the top limiting his deep routes. It reminds me of Randy Moss in Oakland when he had no one on the other side and teams could easily double team him and everyone thought he lost a step until he went to Patriots and had help and then couldnt be as easily double teamed and began running by defenses again.

akhhorus
08-23-2010, 04:45 PM
I did not see the Moss losing a step thing much less 2. On the pass that McNabb got intercepted on if he puts more air under the ball and throws it farther Moss walks into the end zone.

Moss went deep several times in the Ravens' game and couldn't get away from coverage every time I saw. The Cbs had no problem keeping up with him deep. He clearly doesn't have the same speed he did 1-2 years ago.

If Moss has lost a step we are in trouble because he is still by far our fastest reciever. Maybe Banks is close but he is to small to be anything but a specialty player. Until another reciever steps up Moss is going to see a safety over the top limiting his deep routes.

Galloway is clearly faster than Moss is now. I would bet that Armstrong is also.

It reminds me of Randy Moss in Oakland when he had no one on the other side and teams could easily double team him and everyone thought he lost a step until he went to Patriots and had help and then couldnt be as easily double teamed and began running by defenses again.

That was because Randy was dogging it in Oakland. New England worked him out privately and clocked him at 4.2. A WR with enough speed can beat a double team, which is what happened with Randy: even with Welker having amazing seasons, teams tripled teamed Moss to no avail.

Battle Cat
08-23-2010, 05:08 PM
Moss went deep several times in the Ravens' game and couldn't get away from coverage every time I saw. The Cbs had no problem keeping up with him deep. He clearly doesn't have the same speed he did 1-2 years ago.



Galloway is clearly faster than Moss is now. I would bet that Armstrong is also.



That was because Randy was dogging it in Oakland. New England worked him out privately and clocked him at 4.2. A WR with enough speed can beat a double team, which is what happened with Randy: even with Welker having amazing seasons, teams tripled teamed Moss to no avail.
I have not seen anything from Galloway in last couple of years to say he is still a speed reciever. I think he gets by on running good routes and his knowledge than speed now. I would put Armstrong, Banks and even Devin Thomas as faster than Galloway until I see something different from his time in Tampa. I don't think Armstrong is faster than Moss either even though Armstrong has looked really good. I would need to see someone stay with Moss on a deep pass before I say he is all of a sudden slow.

Speed is not just running by guys the reason Santana Moss and Randy Moss are able to adjust to balls while defensive backs look lost while the ball is in the air is because they are running at 3/4 speed and can adjust to the ball while the defensive back has their head down running full speed to catch up.

I think the only guys on the team that can run with Moss is Landry and that is only in a direct straight line and Banks. Don't think the next fastest D. Hall can run with him.

akhhorus
08-23-2010, 05:19 PM
I have not seen anything from Galloway in last couple of years to say he is still a speed reciever. I think he gets by on running good routes and his knowledge than speed now. I would put Armstrong, Banks and even Devin Thomas as faster than Galloway until I see something different from his time in Tampa. I don't think Armstrong is faster than Moss either even though Armstrong has looked really good. I would need to see someone stay with Moss on a deep pass before I say he is all of a sudden slow.

To see what's in front of one's face requires a constant struggle apparently when it comes to Moss and you lol. Armstrong outran McNabb's 50+ yard pass and got behind the Dbs. Santana couldn't even do that on 30 yard routes.

Speed is not just running by guys the reason Santana Moss and Randy Moss are able to adjust to balls while defensive backs look lost while the ball is in the air is because they are running at 3/4 speed and can adjust to the ball while the defensive back has their head down running full speed to catch up.


One of those two still has great football speed, the other doesn't. Why you're comparing them is beyond me. Randy Moss still is a great player who still is among the faster WRs in the NFL, Santana clearly isn't. Flat line speed is required if you want to run deep routes as a WR. Moss(santana) clearly doesn't have the speed he once did when he could get past opposing DBs.

I think the only guys on the team that can run with Moss is Landry and that is only in a direct straight line and Banks. Don't think the next fastest D. Hall can run with him.

Believe whatever you want to.

skinsfan36
08-23-2010, 08:44 PM
nice write up. there was some good that came out of this game. this friday will be another test as rex ryan will blitz alot and the jets d is highly touted. plus it will be a good test for the run d with the jets mauling line.
armstrong,banks should make this team.
the skins need to either sign adalius thomas or start chris wilson because i agree carter looks awful

akhhorus
08-23-2010, 08:53 PM
nice write up. there was some good that came out of this game. this friday will be another test as rex ryan will blitz alot and the jets d is highly touted. plus it will be a good test for the run d with the jets mauling line.
armstrong,banks should make this team.
the skins need to either sign adalius thomas or start chris wilson because i agree carter looks awful

I would see who's cut at 3-4 OLB. I think you might be able to talk the 49ers out of Ahmad Brooks(who's made the move to that position and had 6 sacks in no starts last year).

DCassain21
08-23-2010, 09:36 PM
We have not mentioned the missed FG. it was from just where we want to see a try made in the preseason. only 1 I know and I guess nothing to establish a pattern over but....

What was the distance that he missed from and how have his kickoffs been? Also, nice write up.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 07:12 AM
What was the distance that he missed from and how have his kickoffs been? Also, nice write up.

Gano's kickoffs have been very good. Always deep and almost always in the end zone.

BurgundyNGold
08-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Great stuff, Akh!
You must have DVR'ed the game and rewatched parts to have such an informative account on so many players. We need to get you doing some live game coverage here. Or better yet, get you, me and BNG on a live podcast, lol.

I think the days of Moss running past defenders is over but he looks to be doing a good job running the mid range flag patterns.

Cooley is going to have a huge year but Donavon needs to stop putting the ball so high or Cooley won't last.

Davis has the speed and athleticism to be better than Cooley but it will be another year or two. Best thing he can do is pattern himself like Cooley in his practice routine.

Armstrong... Wow! That is the first time I can remember seeing Donavon under-throw a receiver so much, yet Armstrong made an incredible adjustment to get that ball. Dude is for real. He is our long ball threat.

On defense, yeah, Carter is useless as an OLB. He really doesn't have a role in this defense.

Golston is nothing more than a sub player.

That's all I can comment on for now, I was with a group and didn't see every play of the game.
I'm down for that. I'm babbling like a mental patient in front of my TV every game anyway lol.

Red Bear
08-24-2010, 01:18 PM
I think the only guys on the team that can run with Moss is Landry and that is only in a direct straight line and Banks. Don't think the next fastest D. Hall can run with him.

you seem to forget a couple years ago portis ran head to head with landry in a race

HanburgerBum
08-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=810)

Guff on!


Totally agree on Andre Carter and Casey Rabach.

I just don't see a role for Carter on this team. Any way we can get a 5th or 6th rounder for him from a team who needs a pass rusher in the 4-3?

I don't know if Lichtensteiger is the answer at center, but Rabach doesn't appear to be. I think Casey has been slipping for a couple of years now. Wasn't he voted the team's top offensive player for 2009? If he truly deserves the award, our offense may be in even worse shape than I first feared.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 05:13 PM
Totally agree on Andre Carter and Casey Rabach.

I just don't see a role for Carter on this team. Any way we can get a 5th or 6th rounder for him from a team who needs a pass rusher in the 4-3?

I'd take a free safety or a real 3-4 OLB in exchange for him.

I don't know if Lichtensteiger is the answer at center, but Rabach doesn't appear to be. I think Casey has been slipping for a couple of years now. Wasn't he voted the team's top offensive player for 2009? If he truly deserves the award, our offense may be in even worse shape than I first feared.

I think that says a lot about the state of the offense last year.

Skinsfan1906
08-24-2010, 05:19 PM
Hey AKH.....Ok, I know it's been a long time since I've been around here, so don't give me a hard time. LOL.

After reading your thread, you mentioned something very interesting (that makes a whole lot of sense). Barnes at FS!!!! Never thought of that, but that makes all of the sense in the world. Big Time "hitter", decent coverage skills (still don't know if I trust him on an Island as a corner), good speed. With the emergence (cough) of Justin Tryon (who I have murdered in times past), I think that a move to Free Safety with Barnes would make sense. I hope the coaching staff is looking at that.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 05:22 PM
Hey AKH.....Ok, I know it's been a long time since I've been around here, so don't give me a hard time. LOL.

After reading your thread, you mentioned something very interesting (that makes a whole lot of sense). Barnes at FS!!!! Never thought of that, but that makes all of the sense in the world. Big Time "hitter", decent coverage skills (still don't know if I trust him on an Island as a corner), good speed. With the emergence (cough) of Justin Tryon (who I have murdered in times past), I think that a move to Free Safety with Barnes would make sense. I hope the coaching staff is looking at that.

I hope so also, but you're 100% right: he has all the tools to be a starting FS. I'd like to see more hitting from him, but he appears to be more comfortable when he can catch up with a WR from behind rather than trying to keep up with a quicker guy. He has the straight line speed, but he's not as quick.

Skinsfan1906
08-24-2010, 05:29 PM
I hope so also, but you're 100% right: he has all the tools to be a starting FS. I'd like to see more hitting from him, but he appears to be more comfortable when he can catch up with a WR from behind rather than trying to keep up with a quicker guy. He has the straight line speed, but he's not as quick.

Exactly. He does have that straight line speed, but if I can use one of those Draft Combine terms....he has "tight hips" (LOL)....so his change of direction isn't the best. Nevertheless, he has Free Safety written all over him. Once again, I never even thought about that scenario until you mentioned it.

On the other hand, I have been thoroughly impressed with Justin Tryon. In his rookie year, I thought that he was the WORST corner I ever seen....and now, he seems to be all over the place. I am really impressed with his improvement, and based on how he looks now, he has definitely hit the weight room.

colkurtz
08-24-2010, 06:09 PM
Good writeup. We needed a game like this to bring everyone down from the blowout of the Bills.

My concern is really for the WR situation to solidify. Moss has lost a step but can still be a threat if we have others who can pull their weight. The Cooley-Davis tandem is going to work very well until teams start to key on that after it has early success. I just don't see the Thomas/Kelly year group succeeding.

I easily see this team doubling the number of victories over last season, especially as the OL strengthens over the first half of the season.

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 08:38 PM
To see what's in front of one's face requires a constant struggle apparently when it comes to Moss and you lol. Armstrong outran McNabb's 50+ yard pass and got behind the Dbs. Santana couldn't even do that on 30 yard routes.



One of those two still has great football speed, the other doesn't. Why you're comparing them is beyond me. Randy Moss still is a great player who still is among the faster WRs in the NFL, Santana clearly isn't. Flat line speed is required if you want to run deep routes as a WR. Moss(santana) clearly doesn't have the speed he once did when he could get past opposing DBs.



Believe whatever you want to.
Moss out ran McNabb on the interception that McNabb through in the Baltimore game.

You may believe Moss no longer has speed but I would say even at his age outside of Desean Jackson and maybe his little brother he is the fastest reciever in the NFC east.

If Armstrong or Thomas steps up he will have a resurrection just like Randy Moss did is one reason why I compare them along with their ability to go deep. If either one of Armstrong and Thomas has 50 catches or more Moss will break his Redskins yardage record. As much as I was a Campbell defender he is what he is at this point and Moss catching from him and Brunell and not having a wide reciever on the other side his entire time in Washington that could make another team in the NFC east has hurt him. I am not saying could not start on another NFC East team I am saying could not even make another NFC East 53 man roster.

I am guessing 1300 yards with 8 touchdowns for S. Moss.

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 08:41 PM
you seem to forget a couple years ago portis ran head to head with landry in a race
Even though I think Portis is going to have a break out year this year as well. I think Portis has actually lost a step as far as top end speed. Not enough of a drop off to get caught from behind by db's yet but a little slower than he was.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Moss out ran McNabb on the interception that McNabb through in the Baltimore game.

No, he didn't. Moss couldn't outrun the safety who was behind moss and the CB could catch up with him leading to the INT.

You may believe Moss no longer has speed but I would say even at his age outside of Desean Jackson and maybe his little brother he is the fastest reciever in the NFC east.


Believe whatever you want to. I would bet that Miles Austin, Bryant(when healthy), Nicks, Manningham and Jackson all are faster than Santana outside of who's on the Skins.

If Armstrong or Thomas steps up he will have a resurrection just like Randy Moss did is one reason why I compare them along with their ability to go deep.

Santana Moss isn't going to triple his yardage and have 20 more TDs in a single season like Randy Moss did. If he can get within 80% of his stats from last year, I'll be surprised.

If either one of Armstrong and Thomas has 50 catches or more Moss will break his Redskins yardage record. As much as I was a Campbell defender he is what he is at this point and Moss catching from him and Brunell and not having a wide reciever on the other side his entire time in Washington that could make another team in the NFC east has hurt him. I am not saying could not start on another NFC East team I am saying could not even make another NFC East 53 man roster.

I am guessing 1300 yards with 8 touchdowns for S. Moss.

If Armstrong or Thomas are having 50+ catches, there won't be enough balls for Moss to get even 800 yards unless Cooley/Davis are cut out of the offense.

I realize that you're a Moss homer, but a blind man could see that Moss isn't anywhere near as fast as he once was(which is why he's in the slot now and not at the X). And considering how many more targets Shanahan has to use on offense, its wishful thinking that Moss is going to suddenly revive his career and become a top flight WR again, especially if he's suspended at some point during the season for his relations with Dr. Galea.

lorimike
08-24-2010, 09:23 PM
There you go again Ank. Can you not respect someone's opinion? Look at your last post. Real nice

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 09:27 PM
There you go again Ank. Can you not respect someone's opinion? Look at your last post. Real nice

Battle Cat has been knee jerk defending Moss here for years. Moss' declining speed on the field isn't just something I'm making up, many others saw the same thing. So, your point is what? Just trolling for another reaction?

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 09:40 PM
Battle Cat has been knee jerk defending Moss here for years. Moss' declining speed on the field isn't just something I'm making up, many others saw the same thing. So, your point is what? Just trolling for another reaction?
I don't call saying our best reciever is good a knee jer reaction. Maybe you should inform Lori Mike how when we drafted Thomas and Kelly you had them starting over Moss in 1 or 2 years and both will most likely be out of NFL after this year. Then we will see who has the knee jerk reactions. You even suggested we trade or cut Moss when we drafted them where on earth would the Skins be now if we followed your knee jerk reaction. I am sure you will deny so go ahead.

They place Moss in the slot so it makes it harder to double team and bump him off the line. And what is the best receiver Redskins have had since Clark and Monk being washed up because of a second pre season game being washed up if not a knee jerk reaction.

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 09:44 PM
No, he didn't. Moss couldn't outrun the safety who was behind moss and the CB could catch up with him leading to the INT.



Believe whatever you want to. I would bet that Miles Austin, Bryant(when healthy), Nicks, Manningham and Jackson all are faster than Santana outside of who's on the Skins.



Santana Moss isn't going to triple his yardage and have 20 more TDs in a single season like Randy Moss did. If he can get within 80% of his stats from last year, I'll be surprised.



If Armstrong or Thomas are having 50+ catches, there won't be enough balls for Moss to get even 800 yards unless Cooley/Davis are cut out of the offense.

I realize that you're a Moss homer, but a blind man could see that Moss isn't anywhere near as fast as he once was(which is why he's in the slot now and not at the X). And considering how many more targets Shanahan has to use on offense, its wishful thinking that Moss is going to suddenly revive his career and become a top flight WR again, especially if he's suspended at some point during the season for his relations with Dr. Galea.
If you think that those guys you named that would on their best day outside of Jackson run a 4.5 40 we disagree so much there is really nothing else to talk about. And Moss would have beat the safety easily had there been more air under the ball and it was thrown deeper. I will let others watch the replay and judge themselves. I look for 3500 yards from McNabb this season you break them up among Moss Cooley Davis and guys that either did not play at all or caught around 300 yards all season last year as you wish.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 09:53 PM
I don't call saying our best reciever is good a knee jer reaction. Maybe you should inform Lori Mike how when we drafted Thomas and Kelly you had them starting over Moss in 1 or 2 years and both will most likely be out of NFL after this year.

I don't know how that makes Moss any faster than he actually is....

Then we will see who has the knee jerk reactions. You even suggested we trade or cut Moss when we drafted them where on earth would the Skins be now if we followed your knee jerk reaction. I am sure you will deny so go ahead.

I've been calling for them to dump Moss for a few years, and as for where the skins would be, Moss has put up decent numbers, but looking closer at his stats:
-He had 46% of his yards in 4 games in 2009
-Has 51% of his yards in the last 3 seasons in 13 out of the 48 games he's played in that time. So, in 13 games in 07-09 he has 1404 yards, in the remaining 35 he has 1351 yards. He's the poster boy for inconsistency.

Antonio Bryant and Braylon Edwards outperformed Moss from 07-09. Derrick Mason, who's old, slowing down and has inconsistent Qbing in that time has outperfomed him. Moss' average production from 07-09 has been 70 catches, 900 yards and 4 tds. T.J. Houshmandzadeh beat that last year despite the terrible offense that Seahawks had last year. 5 TEs had more than that last year. Kellen Winslow playing for a horrible Bucs offense had those numbers in 2009. Mike Sims-walker came out of nowhere in 2009 to put up basically those numbers for a bad Jags team.

In short: replacing Moss' production would be much easier than you think.

They place Moss in the slot so it makes it harder to double team and bump him off the line.

Because he doesn't have the speed to recover after a bump and run.

And what is the best receiver Redskins have had since Clark and Monk being washed up because of a second pre season game being washed up if not a knee jerk reaction.

So, since he's had one great season and 3 so-so ones since then for the skins, he's immune from any criticism from anyone or being replaced? Again: I wasn't the only person who's seeing Moss' slowdown. And if we're seeing it, the coaches see it also, which is why he's now in the slot and not at Split end.

If you think that those guys you named that would on their best day outside of Jackson run a 4.5 40 we disagree so much there is really nothing else to talk about. And Moss would have beat the safety easily had there been more air under the ball and it was thrown deeper. I will let others watch the replay and judge themselves. I look for 3500 yards from McNabb this season you break them up among Moss Cooley Davis and guys that either did not play at all or caught around 300 yards all season last year as you wish.

I wasn't the only person who saw the same thing with Moss so far this preseason and Moss couldn't break past the safeties even when McNabb threw it deep at other times in that game.

FunBunch5
08-24-2010, 10:10 PM
I don't know how that makes Moss any faster than he actually is....



I've been calling for them to dump Moss for a few years, and as for where the skins would be, Moss has put up decent numbers, but looking closer at his stats:
-He had 46% of his yards in 4 games in 2009
-Has 51% of his yards in the last 3 seasons in 13 out of the 48 games he's played in that time. So, in 13 games in 07-09 he has 1404 yards, in the remaining 35 he has 1351 yards. He's the poster boy for inconsistency.

Antonio Bryant and Braylon Edwards outperformed Moss from 07-09. Derrick Mason, who's old, slowing down and has inconsistent Qbing in that time has outperfomed him. Moss' average production from 07-09 has been 70 catches, 900 yards and 4 tds. T.J. Houshmandzadeh beat that last year despite the terrible offense that Seahawks had last year. 5 TEs had more than that last year. Kellen Winslow playing for a horrible Bucs offense had those numbers in 2009. Mike Sims-walker came out of nowhere in 2009 to put up basically those numbers for a bad Jags team.

In short: replacing Moss' production would be much easier than you think.



Because he doesn't have the speed to recover after a bump and run.



So, since he's had one great season and 3 so-so ones since then for the skins, he's immune from any criticism from anyone or being replaced? Again: I wasn't the only person who's seeing Moss' slowdown. And if we're seeing it, the coaches see it also, which is why he's now in the slot and not at Split end.



I wasn't the only person who saw the same thing with Moss so far this preseason and Moss couldn't break past the safeties even when McNabb threw it deep at other times in that game.

I think a big part (not all)of Moss's inconsistency was bad QB play. With a competent QB I am expecting a pretty good season from Moss. If he doesn't break a 1000 yards with McNabb, I would agree he has lost a step and on a steep decline.

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 10:18 PM
I don't know how that makes Moss any faster than he actually is....



I've been calling for them to dump Moss for a few years, and as for where the skins would be, Moss has put up decent numbers, but looking closer at his stats:
-He had 46% of his yards in 4 games in 2009
-Has 51% of his yards in the last 3 seasons in 13 out of the 48 games he's played in that time. So, in 13 games in 07-09 he has 1404 yards, in the remaining 35 he has 1351 yards. He's the poster boy for inconsistency.

Antonio Bryant and Braylon Edwards outperformed Moss from 07-09. Derrick Mason, who's old, slowing down and has inconsistent Qbing in that time has outperfomed him. Moss' average production from 07-09 has been 70 catches, 900 yards and 4 tds. T.J. Houshmandzadeh beat that last year despite the terrible offense that Seahawks had last year. 5 TEs had more than that last year. Kellen Winslow playing for a horrible Bucs offense had those numbers in 2009. Mike Sims-walker came out of nowhere in 2009 to put up basically those numbers for a bad Jags team.

In short: replacing Moss' production would be much easier than you think.



Because he doesn't have the speed to recover after a bump and run.



So, since he's had one great season and 3 so-so ones since then for the skins, he's immune from any criticism from anyone or being replaced? Again: I wasn't the only person who's seeing Moss' slowdown. And if we're seeing it, the coaches see it also, which is why he's now in the slot and not at Split end.



I wasn't the only person who saw the same thing with Moss so far this preseason and Moss couldn't break past the safeties even when McNabb threw it deep at other times in that game.
If it is that easy to replace why havent they in 5 years. Have not even found anyone to come close.

I would take Ny Jets, Seahawks, Ravens complimentary recievers over David Patten, Brandon Lloyd, D Thomas James Thrash and M Kelly. That may help to explain those guys you named having better stats than Moss and the Redskins being a run dominated team. Which one of those guys (Edwards, Hushmanzadeh, Mason would you take over S. Moss?

I guess the only thing we can do is watch his performance this year. And again I am not a S Moss apologist nor a C. Portis apologist but there are things outside of their control that have caused them not to be able to put up big numbers. And if McNabb performs well and Williams, Brown, and Rabach perform well and the running game performs well I think plenty will be suprised along with you with S. Moss's production.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 10:18 PM
I think a big part (not all)of Moss's inconsistency was bad QB play. With a competent QB I am expecting a pretty good season from Moss. If he doesn't break a 1000 yards with McNabb, I would agree he has lost a step and on a steep decline.

Thats possible, but Mark Brunell was his QB when he had his monster 2005 season. Part of it might be him and Campbell never clicking properly(for whatever reason, lets not start that discussion again lol), but Moss just didn't look the same out there so far. The fact that he had his mysterious long term knee injury finally fixed and, this might be a cheap shot but its in the public record, the ending of his relationship with Dr. Galea might mean he's dropped off the cliff physically.

If it is that easy to replace why havent they in 5 years. Have not even found anyone to come close.

Because they haven't tried. Even with Thomas/Kelly, Zorn barely played either until Thomas saw more playing time in the middle of last season.

I would take Ny Jets, Seahawks, Ravens complimentary recievers over David Patten, Brandon Lloyd, D Thomas James Thrash and M Kelly. That may help to explain those guys you named having better stats than Moss and the Redskins being a run dominated team.

The Jets, Seahawks and Ravens are all far more run based team than the skins have been. And you can take whomever you want to, but none of them had anything close to good WRs to play with them either. Edwards had...nothing in cleveland. Mason ha Mark Clayton(who sucks) an TJ had Deion Branch lol.

Which one of those guys (Edwards, Hushmanzadeh, Mason would you take over S. Moss?

All 3 of them. None of them are as inconsistent as Moss.

I guess the only thing we can do is watch his performance this year. And again I am not a S Moss apologist nor a C. Portis apologist but there are things outside of their control that have caused them not to be able to put up big numbers. And if McNabb performs well and Williams, Brown, and Rabach perform well and the running game performs well I think plenty will be suprised along with you with S. Moss's production.

We'll see. The offense they're going to run is going to use many different WRs/TE sets and Moss isn't going to be the primary target like he's been so far in his career in DC. If McNabb has a 3500-4000 yard season, I would guess that Moss puts up 55 catches, 650 yards and 2 TDs playing out of the slot.

FunBunch5
08-24-2010, 10:23 PM
Thats possible, but Mark Brunell was his QB when he had his monster 2005 season. Part of it might be him and Campbell never clicking properly(for whatever reason, lets not start that discussion again lol), but Moss just didn't look the same out there so far. The fact that he had his mysterious long term knee injury finally fixed and, this might be a cheap shot but its in the public record, the ending of his relationship with Dr. Galea might mean he's dropped off the cliff physically.

True, what was I thinking...:smash:

I get concerned when fast guys hit Moss's age. Most of them hit the wall pretty quickly, I am hoping it isn't this year for Moss. If we get some good production out of him this year I think the team is in for some very good things.

akhhorus
08-24-2010, 10:25 PM
True, what was I thinking...:smash:

I get concerned when fast guys hit Moss's age. Most of them hit the wall pretty quickly, I am hoping it isn't this year for Moss. If we get some good production out of him this year I think the team is in for some very good things.

I think he'll be a contributor in the slot because he still has lateral quickness, but based on what I've seen, the days of Moss running successful fly patterns is over(or will be very soon).

Battle Cat
08-24-2010, 10:31 PM
Thats possible, but Mark Brunell was his QB when he had his monster 2005 season. Part of it might be him and Campbell never clicking properly(for whatever reason, lets not start that discussion again lol), but Moss just didn't look the same out there so far. The fact that he had his mysterious long term knee injury finally fixed and, this might be a cheap shot but its in the public record, the ending of his relationship with Dr. Galea might mean he's dropped off the cliff physically.



Because they haven't tried. Even with Thomas/Kelly, Zorn barely played either until Thomas saw more playing time in the middle of last season.



The Jets, Seahawks and Ravens are all far more run based team than the skins have been. And you can take whomever you want to, but none of them had anything close to good WRs to play with them either. Edwards had...nothing in cleveland. Mason ha Mark Clayton(who sucks) an TJ had Deion Branch lol.



All 3 of them. None of them are as inconsistent as Moss.



We'll see. The offense they're going to run is going to use many different WRs/TE sets and Moss isn't going to be the primary target like he's been so far in his career in DC. If McNabb has a 3500-4000 yard season, I would guess that Moss puts up 55 catches, 650 yards and 2 TDs playing out of the slot.
Wasn't going to comment any more but would be curious how you see the other yards breaking down among pass catchers if you subtract your 650 yards for Moss from 3500-4000 for McNabb lol. We would have to have a All Pro receiver and career seasons out of every other reciever lol. I have to see this breakdown.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 06:35 AM
Wasn't going to comment any more but would be curious how you see the other yards breaking down among pass catchers if you subtract your 650 yards for Moss from 3500-4000 for McNabb lol. We would have to have a All Pro receiver and career seasons out of every other reciever lol. I have to see this breakdown.

Cooley: 900
Armstrong or Thomas: 850
Moss: 650
Davis: 550
Thomas or Armstrong: 500
Galloway: 400
Banks: 150
_____________
4000 yards

sinskin
08-25-2010, 07:38 AM
Cooley: 900
Armstrong or Thomas: 850
Moss: 650
Davis: 550
Thomas or Armstrong: 500
Galloway: 400
Banks: 150
_____________
4000 yards

Thomas hasn't had 500 yards in his career much less this year. Armstrong hasn't caught a pass in a NFL regular game EVER! Has Galloway even caught a pass yet this preseason? Will he even make the team?

ARE had 50 catches for 530 yards last year in the slot as a starter with JC throwing to him and Zorn calling plays. I'll reach here but I say Moss is better then ARE lol.

I agree with you on Moss losing a (small) step but this breakdown is absurd.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 08:08 AM
Thomas hasn't had 500 yards in his career much less this year. Armstrong hasn't caught a pass in a NFL regular game EVER! Has Galloway even caught a pass yet this preseason? Will he even make the team?

ARE had 50 catches for 530 yards last year in the slot as a starter with JC throwing to him and Zorn calling plays. I'll reach here but I say Moss is better then ARE lol.

I agree with you on Moss losing a (small) step but this breakdown is absurd.

The Skins are actually going to play(and throw to) their young WRs this season. The reason the skins have been held hostage to Moss' inconsistencies is because Gibbs and Zorn refused to use anyone else as a primary target, Shanahan has no such illusions. Moving Moss to the slot speaks volumes to how things have changed in the passing game because the X is the most important WR in the Shanny offense(the Zorn offense is much different btw), and either Thomas or Armstrong will be the starter there. My galloway number could be Galloway+Kelly or any combo of the remaining WRs.

lorimike
08-25-2010, 08:15 AM
I don't call saying our best reciever is good a knee jer reaction. Maybe you should inform Lori Mike how when we drafted Thomas and Kelly you had them starting over Moss in 1 or 2 years and both will most likely be out of NFL after this year. Then we will see who has the knee jerk reactions. You even suggested we trade or cut Moss when we drafted them where on earth would the Skins be now if we followed your knee jerk reaction. I am sure you will deny so go ahead.

They place Moss in the slot so it makes it harder to double team and bump him off the line. And what is the best receiver Redskins have had since Clark and Monk being washed up because of a second pre season game being washed up if not a knee jerk reaction.

I agree with you. Santana Moss has been our best receiver for quite a while. Ank seems to have an agenda against Moss. It's certainly has no basis in reality.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 08:24 AM
I agree with you. Santana Moss has been our best receiver for quite a while. Ank seems to have an agenda against Moss. It's certainly has no basis in reality.

I pointed out the breakdown of Moss' stats over the last 3 seasons. Feel free to address that.

And it's kind of ridiculous to say I have an agenda against Moss in a thread that starts with me saying that he could be a "real asset" in his new position that the coaches have him in, but I can't say I'm surprised you're not letting reality stop you from trolling.

Patrick
08-25-2010, 08:26 AM
I pointed out the breakdown of Moss' stats over the last 3 seasons. Feel free to address that.

And it's kind of ridiculous to say I have an agenda against Moss in a thread that starts with me saying that he could be a "real asset" in his new position that the coaches have him in, but I can't say I'm surprised you're not letting reality stop you from trolling. That's what I was just thinking :confused:

FunBunch5
08-25-2010, 09:15 AM
Thomas hasn't had 500 yards in his career much less this year. Armstrong hasn't caught a pass in a NFL regular game EVER! Has Galloway even caught a pass yet this preseason? Will he even make the team?

ARE had 50 catches for 530 yards last year in the slot as a starter with JC throwing to him and Zorn calling plays. I'll reach here but I say Moss is better then ARE lol.

I agree with you on Moss losing a (small) step but this breakdown is absurd.

I don't how you can say this is absurd, it is the man's opinion and there is some logic behind it though you may not agree with it. Yes Thomas hasn't had 500 yards yet, but it is his 3rd year and he could break out. Armstrong could be a diamond in the rough. No one thought Percy Harvin or Sidney Rice were going to be what they were either. I don't believe Jerry Rice had a very productive first couple of years, but then broke out (Too lazy to look up the stats right now to validate, but I am fairly confident this is the case).

To use your argument JC was throwing to Thomas also, so now with McNabb he can break out. It is all conjecture right now, but as long as the opinions have some logic, I don't believe they should be called absurd.

sinskin
08-25-2010, 09:23 AM
The Skins are actually going to play(and throw to) their young WRs this season. The reason the skins have been held hostage to Moss' inconsistencies is because Gibbs and Zorn refused to use anyone else as a primary target, Shanahan has no such illusions. Moving Moss to the slot speaks volumes to how things have changed in the passing game because the X is the most important WR in the Shanny offense(the Zorn offense is much different btw), and either Thomas or Armstrong will be the starter there. My galloway number could be Galloway+Kelly or any combo of the remaining WRs.

I agree for the most part about spreading it around. Judging by the Texans offense last year, Andre Johnson had 1500 of the 4770 yards total. This substantiates this reasoning.

I was just illuding to the fact (and should have said so, sorry) that there aren't any RB's on your list. The Texans had 4 RB's combine for 81 catches and 690 yards last season. With Steve Slaton getting 44 of them. They also had 3 TE's combining for 104 catches and 1209 yards. This puts Davis in the mix as well which I am sure he will contribute huge..... I hope.

If McNabb hits 4000 yards, with Portis getting his customary 1300, that would be huge!

That being said, Moss getting 55 catches for 650 to 800 yards this year would be contributing and playing his part in this offense. Any more then this would be a bonus.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 09:29 AM
I agree for the most part about spreading it around. Judging by the Texans offense last year, Andre Johnson had 1500 of the 4770 yards total. This substantiates this reasoning.

I was just illuding to the fact (and should have said so, sorry) that there aren't any RB's on your list. The Texans had 4 RB's combine for 81 catches and 690 yards last season. With Steve Slaton getting 44 of them. They also had 3 TE's combining for 104 catches and 1209 yards. This puts Davis in the mix as well which I am sure he will contribute huge..... I hope.

Thats a good point, I should have included Portis and Keilland Williams(I think he's going to be the primary 3rd down back right now) on that list.

That being said, Moss getting 55 catches for 650 to 800 yards this year would be contributing and playing his part in this offense. Any more then this would be a bonus.

I agree, I think my point has gotten lost in a black/white discussion about who is Santana Moss as a player: Moss probably isn't the deep threat he once was, but he can be a big contributor in the slot using his quickness to torch nickel backs/lbs on those slash routes in the middle of the field. 650-700ish yards from him would be a major contribution to the team and is very realistic no matter how much speed he's lost.

FunBunch5
08-25-2010, 09:36 AM
Thats a good point, I should have included Portis and Keilland Williams(I think he's going to be the primary 3rd down back right now) on that list.



I agree, I think my point has gotten lost in a black/white discussion about who is Santana Moss as a player: Moss probably isn't the deep threat he once was, but he can be a big contributor in the slot using his quickness to torch nickel backs/lbs on those slash routes in the middle of the field. 650-700ish yards from him would be a major contribution to the team and is very realistic no matter how much speed he's lost.

From your initial observation, I don't think Cooley gets 900 yards. I think it will be around 700 area and I think the other 200 yards you can assign to the RBs. Unfortunately I think DT is going to be a bust, so I expect him to get 350 yards at best. My break out would be this

Moss 1075
Cooley 750
Armstrong 750
Fred Davis 500
Gallowy 350
DT - 200
Banks 175
RB's 350

About 4000 yards passing.

sinskin
08-25-2010, 09:58 AM
I don't how you can say this is absurd, it is the man's opinion and there is some logic behind it though you may not agree with it. Yes Thomas hasn't had 500 yards yet, but it is his 3rd year and he could break out. Armstrong could be a diamond in the rough. No one thought Percy Harvin or Sidney Rice were going to be what they were either. I don't believe Jerry Rice had a very productive first couple of years, but then broke out (Too lazy to look up the stats right now to validate, but I am fairly confident this is the case).

To use your argument JC was throwing to Thomas also, so now with McNabb he can break out. It is all conjecture right now, but as long as the opinions have some logic, I don't believe they should be called absurd.

Devin Thomas hasn't shown ANYONE that he can be a no.1 WR yet. Is why he is 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. Does he have the potential to be? I think so but if he were ready to step into that role we would have seen it allready this preseason don't you think? I think everyone here is in agreement that Armstrong has out played him thus far, no? He is a rookie who hasn't caught a pass yet, what does that tell you?

You use could alot here. When they DO let me know. Then we can use them as a valid and logical source.

justinskins
08-25-2010, 10:12 AM
I don't believe Jerry Rice had a very productive first couple of years, but then broke out (Too lazy to look up the stats right now to validate, but I am fairly confident this is the case).
I wouldn't be so confident. After being drafted 16th overall in 1985, Rice caught 49 balls for 927 yards and was named NFC Offensive ROTY. In his second year, he led the league receiving yards and touchdowns. In his third year, he was the NFL MVP and the AP's Offensive POY. So while he did get better, he quickly showed he was one of the best.

(Sorry, my parents were 49ers fans when I was a kid.)

*EDIT* Rice was the 1987 MVP per the Pro Football Writers Association and the National Enterprise Association, but not AP (which picked John Elway). One of the few times they have diverged.

FunBunch5
08-25-2010, 10:47 AM
Devin Thomas hasn't shown ANYONE that he can be a no.1 WR yet. Is why he is 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. Does he have the potential to be? I think so but if he were ready to step into that role we would have seen it allready this preseason don't you think? I think everyone here is in agreement that Armstrong has out played him thus far, no? He is a rookie who hasn't caught a pass yet, what does that tell you?

You use could alot here. When they DO let me know. Then we can use them as a valid and logical source.

It is all conjecture right now, and I even said that. No one knows what the season is going to bring so most of these discussions are "could" discussions so what is your point? Are we not suppose to project what we think could happen during the season?

500 yards is not a number one receiver, that is a number 3 receiver. Has it never happened before that a receiver breakout after having 2 sub par years? I don't think 500 yards is too far fetched even for a potential bust like Devin Thomas.

FunBunch5
08-25-2010, 10:48 AM
I wouldn't be so confident. After being drafted 16th overall in 1985, Rice caught 49 balls for 927 yards and was named NFC Offensive ROTY. In his second year, he led the league receiving yards and touchdowns. In his third year, he was the NFL MVP and the AP's Offensive POY. So while he did get better, he quickly showed he was one of the best.

(Sorry, my parents were 49ers fans when I was a kid.)

*EDIT* Rice was the 1987 MVP per the Pro Football Writers Association and the National Enterprise Association, but not AP (which picked John Elway). One of the few times they have diverged.

Yeah I wasn't sure if the second year or third year is when broke out. My bad, thanks for the correction.

Ibleedburgundy
08-25-2010, 10:55 AM
From your initial observation, I don't think Cooley gets 900 yards. I think it will be around 700 area and I think the other 200 yards you can assign to the RBs. Unfortunately I think DT is going to be a bust, so I expect him to get 350 yards at best. My break out would be this

Moss 1075
Cooley 750
Armstrong 750
Fred Davis 500
Gallowy 350
DT - 200
Banks 175
RB's 350

About 4000 yards passing.

I agree DT is becoming a bust but damn, 200 yards is harsh.

I can see Moss breaking 1100 yards with 75 receptions in this offense, especially since none of the other WRs is established. I don't think Devin Thomas is anywhere near de-throning Moss as the number 1 WR target.

I also think the disparity between Cooley and Davis will be greater than that. Davis stepped up last year but he's still not on Cooley's level IMO.

Moss: 1100 yards, 75 receptions
Cooley: 850 yards, 80 receptions
Thomas: 550 yards, 45 receptions
Armstrong: 300 yards, 25 receptions
Davis: 350 yards, 35 receptions
RBs: 350 yards, 55 receptions
various other WRs: 300 yards, 30 receptions

FunBunch5
08-25-2010, 11:00 AM
I agree DT is becoming a bust but damn, 200 yards is harsh.

I can see Moss breaking 1100 yards with 75 receptions in this offense, especially since none of the other WRs is established. I don't think Devin Thomas is anywhere near de-throning Moss as the number 1 WR target.

I also think the disparity between Cooley and Davis will be greater than that. Davis stepped up last year but he's still not on Cooley's level IMO.

Moss: 1100 yards, 75 receptions
Cooley: 850 yards, 80 receptions
Thomas: 550 yards, 45 receptions
Armstrong: 300 yards, 25 receptions
Davis: 350 yards, 35 receptions
RBs: 350 yards, 55 receptions
various other WRs: 300 yards, 30 receptions

I definitely hope I am wrong about DT, but I see his yards going to Armstrong due to Devin's inconsistency. For some reason DT is starting to remind me of Brandon Lloyd. He has all the tools, but I don't think he is going to put it together.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 11:33 AM
500 yards is not a number one receiver, that is a number 3 receiver. Has it never happened before that a receiver breakout after having 2 sub par years? I don't think 500 yards is too far fetched even for a potential bust like Devin Thomas.

Bingo. He put up 346 yards last year in 25 catches in that "fantastic" offense we ran. If he can get 45ish catches, he should put up 600+ yards.

Battle Cat
08-25-2010, 04:14 PM
I pointed out the breakdown of Moss' stats over the last 3 seasons. Feel free to address that.

And it's kind of ridiculous to say I have an agenda against Moss in a thread that starts with me saying that he could be a "real asset" in his new position that the coaches have him in, but I can't say I'm surprised you're not letting reality stop you from trolling.
Please allow me to address a stat for Lori Mike concerning S. Moss that may clear up why she may feel you have an agenda. S. Moss has been our leading wide receiver every year he has been here by an average of 519 yards per year. He averages leading the 2nd leading wide receiver by aprox the same amount of yards you have him gaining this year.

It is also telling that you base S. Moss losing a step based on his preseason performance. Can I ask what do you base Galloway's numbers in your breakdown on? His preseason performance? Do you base D. Thomas projected numbers in your breakdown on his performance against 2nd string and future Arena football greats? It is interesting how you base your assesment of the one guy who didnt need to prove anything in preseason on his preseason performance. But tend to ignore preseason performance in your assesment for guys who are fighting to stay in the NFL based on this years preseason performance.

And I won't even comment on your suggestion that Galloway's numbers could possibly be a combination of his and M. Kelly's potential performance. How has Kelly's top end speed looked to you this preseason?

In my opinion no hidden agenda I think that Moss's numbers will increase this year over last due to better qb and better o line play. But I understand that their is a logical opinion for Moss's numbers to go down and I can respect that opinion but to say a guy goes from leading a team in receiving every year he has been there to 3rd or 4th on the team based on a couple of routes in a preseason game against the Ravens sounds like an agenda to me.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 04:24 PM
Please allow me to address a stat for Lori Mike concerning S. Moss that may clear up why she may feel you have an agenda. S. Moss has been our leading wide receiver every year he has been here by an average of 519 yards per year. He averages leading the 2nd leading wide receiver by aprox the same amount of yards you have him gaining this year.


I think I've addressed this concept several times already, and I'm not going to repeat myself.

And thanks for constantly ignoring or making irrelevant comments whenever I point out how Moss' stats look in comparison to the rest of the receivers in the NFL.

It is also telling that you base S. Moss losing a step based on his preseason performance. Can I ask what do you base Galloway's numbers in your breakdown on? His preseason performance? Do you base D. Thomas projected numbers in your breakdown on his performance against 2nd string and future Arena football greats? It is interesting how you base your assesment of the one guy who didnt need to prove anything in preseason on his preseason performance. But tend to ignore preseason performance in your assesment for guys who are fighting to stay in the NFL based on this years preseason performance.


I must have missed when I used Moss' preseason stats as the basis of my criticism. I believe my criticism of his performance was based on the physical attributes he's showing on the field. As for Galloway, Armstrong and Thomas, all of them have been able to show that they can get behind a defensive backfield so far this preseason: something Moss hasn't shown he can do anymore.

And I won't even comment on your suggestion that Galloway's numbers could possibly be a combination of his and M. Kelly's potential performance. How has Kelly's top end speed looked to you this preseason?


How's Moss' looked? He can't even outrun a safety on a fly pattern.

In my opinion no hidden agenda I think that Moss's numbers will increase this year over last due to better qb and better o line play. But I understand that their is a logical opinion for Moss's numbers to go down and I can respect that opinion but to say a guy goes from leading a team in receiving every year he has been there to 3rd or 4th on the team based on a couple of routes in a preseason game against the Ravens sounds like an agenda to me.

As I said to lorimike: its ridiculous to claim that I have an agenda against Moss in a thread that starts with me saying that he could be a "real asset" in his new position that the coaches have him in. Were both of you confused by what the word "asset" means?

Battle Cat
08-25-2010, 04:45 PM
I think I've addressed this concept several times already, and I'm not going to repeat myself.

And thanks for constantly ignoring or making irrelevant comments whenever I point out how Moss' stats look in comparison to the rest of the receivers in the NFL.



I must have missed when I used Moss' preseason stats as the basis of my criticism. I believe my criticism of his performance was based on the physical attributes he's showing on the field. As for Galloway, Armstrong and Thomas, all of them have been able to show that they can get behind a defensive backfield so far this preseason: something Moss hasn't shown he can do anymore.



How's Moss' looked? He can't even outrun a safety on a fly pattern.



As I said to lorimike: its ridiculous to claim that I have an agenda against Moss in a thread that starts with me saying that he could be a "real asset" in his new position that the coaches have him in. Were both of you confused by what the word "asset" means?
Hard to compare his stats to rest of NFL if that team didn't have Zorn, worst offensive line, and last year no run game.

Yep I remember Galloway flying by d-backs this pre-season. How could I forget that. Maybe because he has 0 catches. I am sure on that run play he just blew straight by the corner. D. Thomas got open on a broken play other than that dont remember him flying by defensive backs this preseason or any other preseason or regular season. Think you are mistaking him for Armstrong.

Moss looked good to me against Ravens actually. Him and London Fletcher were two bright spots to me and maybe throw in Cooley.

And I know you want to try to change the subject so I will simply answer no I (*nor Lori Mike) am not confused by the word assest. And by asset you mean 600 yards and 3rd or 4th in receiving yards from your number 1 receiver.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Hard to compare his stats to rest of NFL if that team didn't have Zorn, worst offensive line, and last year no run game.

I believe I showed examples from teams that had as poor offenses than what the skins had which you totally ignored.

Yep I remember Galloway flying by d-backs this pre-season. How could I forget that. Maybe because he has 0 catches. I am sure on that run play he just blew straight by the corner.

On the very first drive of the preseason, Galloway got past 3 defenders on a fly route which McNabb overthrew.

D. Thomas got open on a broken play other than that dont remember him flying by defensive backs this preseason or any other preseason or regular season. Think you are mistaking him for Armstrong.

Besides his 50ish yard td from Grossman when he hip faked out 2 starting defenders to get 10 yards behind them when the ball got to him you mean?


Moss looked good to me against Ravens actually. Him and London Fletcher were two bright spots to me and maybe throw in Cooley.


Gee, maybe you should actually have read what I wrote in the blog post for this thread, no?

And I know you want to try to change the subject

How is pointing out what I said in the blog post for this very thread trying to change the subject? You are trying to claim that me saying that Moss has lost a step is an "agenda" against him. I said in this thread that in the slot he can be a good player even with his decline in speed. Trying to claim that this means I have an agenda against him in asinine.

so I will simply answer no I (*nor Lori Mike) am not confused by the word assest. And by asset you mean 600 yards and 3rd or 4th in receiving yards from your number 1 receiver.

Thanks for another irrelevant comment that has nothing to do with what I said previously.

Battle Cat, if you want to continue this, pm me. Whenever someone criticizes Moss on this board, you get your panties in a wad and start filibustering threads with semantics trying to make Moss into more than what is truly is and ignoring any posts that you obviously can't respond to. I'm not going to junk up this thread with your Santana Moss fan club official minutes.

Battle Cat
08-25-2010, 05:14 PM
I believe I showed examples from teams that had as poor offenses than what the skins had which you totally ignored.



On the very first drive of the preseason, Galloway got past 3 defenders on a fly route which McNabb overthrew.



Besides his 50ish yard td from Grossman when he hip faked out 2 starting defenders to get 10 yards behind them when the ball got to him you mean?



Gee, maybe you should actually have read what I wrote in the blog post for this thread, no?



How is pointing out what I said in the blog post for this very thread trying to change the subject? You are trying to claim that me saying that Moss has lost a step is an "agenda" against him. I said in this thread that in the slot he can be a good player even with his decline in speed. Trying to claim that this means I have an agenda against him in asinine.



Thanks for another irrelevant comment that has nothing to do with what I said previously.

Battle Cat, if you want to continue this, pm me. Whenever someone criticizes Moss on this board, you get your panties in a wad and start filibustering threads with semantics trying to make Moss into more than what is truly is and ignoring any posts that you obviously can't respond to. I'm not going to junk up this thread with your Santana Moss fan club official minutes.
Those offenses have same qb so they thought their situation wasn't as bad. Or could have gave a 2nd for McNabb and Eagles would not face him twice a year.

One route and 0 catches is what you base a projection for an entire season? Ok.

Yes I referenced the broken play for 44 yards. Again 1 play in a preseason game to base a whole season on.

I read your blog.

By changing the subject I meant accusing me of having an agenda when I was just disagreeing with you and trying to insult mine and another poster's intelligence by insisting we didn't know the definition of the word asset.

I am not trying to ruin the forum experience for anyone else and if I have I apologize and I basicly thought you and I were the only ones in this post seeing as it is referencing a week 2 preseason game and Skins have week 3 preseason game coming up on Friday. I know you would never go at another poster and slightly get off track of the intended subject in a forum. You would never do that. But have no desire to pm you I stated my position.

Again I apologize to anyone in the forum if I hurt their experience. This is a great site. Where everyone is allowed to have an opinon.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm only going to respond to this part


By changing the subject I meant accusing me of having an agenda when I was just disagreeing with you and trying to insult mine and another poster's intelligence by insisting we didn't know the definition of the word asset.


I was using sarcasm. If you(and lorimike) want to say or think that I have an agenda against Moss, thats up to both y'all, but it makes no sense to say so when I said in the blog post for this thread that in the slot, Moss can be a real contributor in this offense. Its hard to claim that I have an "agenda" against Moss solely criticizing him for his foot speed but saying that he could be an asset for the team in a different role than the one he's been filling in recent years. And I wasn't the only person who saw this contradiction.

I am not trying to ruin the forum experience for anyone else and if I have I apologize and I basicly thought you and I were the only ones in this post seeing as it is referencing a week 2 preseason game and Skins have week 3 preseason game coming up on Friday. I know you would never go at another poster and slightly get off track of the intended subject in a forum. You would never do that. But have no desire to pm you I stated my position.

Again I apologize to anyone in the forum if I hurt their experience. This is a great site. Where everyone is allowed to have an opinon.

This forum is about open discussion, the main reason I post my regular blogs is to provoke discussion about the skins are various points in the season: we're having a discussion about Moss here and I dont think that anyone's experience was hurt by it. Its just that at some point it becomes pointless to keep junking up the thread with an endless discussion. My offer stands, if you want to continue it, pm me and I'll be happy to continue it for as long as you want to.

lorimike
08-25-2010, 05:45 PM
"Its just that at some point it becomes pointless to keep junking up the thread with an endless discussion. My offer stands, if you want to continue it, pm me and I'll be happy to continue it for as long as you want to." A QUOTE FROM AKHOUROUS


I am seeing a pattern here dude. Same modus operandi

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 06:03 PM
"Its just that at some point it becomes pointless to keep junking up the thread with an endless discussion. My offer stands, if you want to continue it, pm me and I'll be happy to continue it for as long as you want to." A QUOTE FROM AKHOUROUS


I am seeing a pattern here dude. Same modus operandi

Who's akhourous?

So, is this going to be all you're going to do from now? Just trolling trying to pick a fight with me no matter how comically dumb your posts become?

lorimike
08-25-2010, 06:26 PM
Who's akhourous?

So, is this going to be all you're going to do from now? Just trolling trying to pick a fight with me no matter how comically dumb your posts become?


Just pointing out that you do this to everyone. Who died and made you the football genious? Respectful debate is fine but it quickly disintegrates with you.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Just pointing out that you do this to everyone. Who died and made you the football genious? Respectful debate is fine but it quickly disintegrates with you.

1-I must have missed when I claimed I was some genius(why you keep misspelling it since you were the one who misspelled it in another thread is beyond me).
2-Offering to continue to the discussion with Battle Cat in private to avoid continuing junking up the thread is disrespectful?

So, your two supposed complaints about me is that I have an agenda against Moss(even though you still haven't responded to my pointing out what I actually said for this thread which contradicts that) and that I'm "disrespecting" Battle Cat by offering to continue the discussion in private? This is the best you can do with your trolling?

If you are actually trying to troll for a fight, I suggest you work on your material because all you're doing is making me laugh now.

hail2skins
08-25-2010, 07:21 PM
Alright guys, leave the personal attacks out of this. I agree that you can continue some discussion in PM's.

PyroGenic
08-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Nice write up; very enjoyable.

Just 2 questions:

Do you think Kevin Mawae could really be a viable starter? I know that he's pro bowl caliber (whatever that merits), but can he contribute to a run zone blocking scheme? I don't think that the Titans used that kind of blocking system, but I could definitely be wrong. Another question that inextricably goes with his age and zone blocking is his ability to move, and the fact that our team is friggin old. Even if Mawae isn't the answer, the fact remains that Rabach is pretty horrendous, unfortunately, and I see the oline being weak between the tackles with soggy guards and an outmatched center. At least he isn't terrible with blocking assignments. Although I'm admittedly unsure how heavily his perspective weighs in on those kinds of decisions.

Was it me, or did the blocking look significantly more atrocious when LJ was in the backfield? I couldn't tell if it was his lack of speed (which makes me question the earlier banter about his ability to excel in the one cut run scheme) or if the blocking just deteriorated by coincidence. Regardless, whenever he was back there, it made me physically ill. He looked like he was running on ice and couldn't gain any bursts of distance. I'm rooting for a sudden youth movement at the RB position :)


Keep 'em coming, akh.

akhhorus
08-25-2010, 10:03 PM
Nice write up; very enjoyable.

Thanks man.

Just 2 questions:

Do you think Kevin Mawae could really be a viable starter? I know that he's pro bowl caliber (whatever that merits), but can he contribute to a run zone blocking scheme? I don't think that the Titans used that kind of blocking system, but I could definitely be wrong. Another question that inextricably goes with his age and zone blocking is his ability to move, and the fact that our team is friggin old. Even if Mawae isn't the answer, the fact remains that Rabach is pretty horrendous, unfortunately, and I see the oline being weak between the tackles with soggy guards and an outmatched center. At least he isn't terrible with blocking assignments. Although I'm admittedly unsure how heavily his perspective weighs in on those kinds of decisions.


I'd like a younger ZB option(which is why I think that Lichtensteiger should get a shot at the job since he's been effective when he's played so far), but I'm fine with giving Mawae a few million just to lock down that spot. He is older and I don't know how much experience he has in the ZB, but he has to be an improvement on Rabach.

Was it me, or did the blocking look significantly more atrocious when LJ was in the backfield? I couldn't tell if it was his lack of speed (which makes me question the earlier banter about his ability to excel in the one cut run scheme) or if the blocking just deteriorated by coincidence. Regardless, whenever he was back there, it made me physically ill. He looked like he was running on ice and couldn't gain any bursts of distance. I'm rooting for a sudden youth movement at the RB position :)


Sellers' blocking has just become atrocious since he got his new deal, so that could be part of it, but LJ just looked done. He hesitates, his footwork is bad and he can't block. If Portis went down, I'd feel much more comfortable with Williams running in his place than Johnson. Williams might be Forrest Gump(check out his quote today about being a RB), but he can hit that hole without hesitating.

sinskin
08-26-2010, 07:40 AM
Thanks man.



I'd like a younger ZB option(which is why I think that Lichtensteiger should get a shot at the job since he's been effective when he's played so far), but I'm fine with giving Mawae a few million just to lock down that spot. He is older and I don't know how much experience he has in the ZB, but he has to be an improvement on Rabach.



Sellers' blocking has just become atrocious since he got his new deal, so that could be part of it, but LJ just looked done. He hesitates, his footwork is bad and he can't block. If Portis went down, I'd feel much more comfortable with Williams running in his place than Johnson. Williams might be Forrest Gump(check out his quote today about being a RB), but he can hit that hole without hesitating.


Who needs an eduacation when you can hit the hole without hesitating!

Moe
08-26-2010, 08:39 AM
Do you think Kevin Mawae could really be a viable starter? I know that he's pro bowl caliber (whatever that merits), but can he contribute to a run zone blocking scheme? I don't think that the Titans used that kind of blocking system, but I could definitely be wrong. Another question that inextricably goes with his age and zone blocking is his ability to move, and the fact that our team is friggin old. Even if Mawae isn't the answer, the fact remains that Rabach is pretty horrendous, unfortunately, and I see the oline being weak between the tackles with soggy guards and an outmatched center. At least he isn't terrible with blocking assignments. Although I'm admittedly unsure how heavily his perspective weighs in on those kinds of decisions.

Maybe he's not such a good idea-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/15/perhaps-the-real-reason-no-one-wants-mawae/

To quote- "According to PFF, Mawae was the worst run-blocking center in the league last season. Pro Football Focus' metrics consider Mawae still a mediocre pass protector, but such a liability for the ground game that, overall, he's just the 30th-ranked veteran at his position."

Ouch.

Was it me, or did the blocking look significantly more atrocious when LJ was in the backfield? I couldn't tell if it was his lack of speed (which makes me question the earlier banter about his ability to excel in the one cut run scheme) or if the blocking just deteriorated by coincidence. Regardless, whenever he was back there, it made me physically ill. He looked like he was running on ice and couldn't gain any bursts of distance. I'm rooting for a sudden youth movement at the RB position .

There were two plays in particular where the blocking stunk; one where Williams got stood up and pushed back and another where Sellers completely whiffed. Outside of that, Johnson looked slow and like he didn't hit the lanes properly or with much intent.

Shanny has been high on Torain and he has shown some promise, but like some others have mentioned, he runs high and that might open him to injury and fumbles (or it might mean bupkis, but it looks strange). IMO, Williams has looked very promising and has produced. It'll be interesting to see what Willie shows this week.

BurgundyNGold
08-26-2010, 08:44 AM
There were two plays in particular where the blocking stunk; one where Williams got stood up and pushed back and another where Sellers completely whiffed. Outside of that, Johnson looked slow and like he didn't hit the lanes properly or with much intent.
Add in the plays where Sellers decided to block the wrong player or a player away from the hole and the blocking was awful. You'd might as wel go with a 1 back set because Sellers is giving us nothing.

Shanny has been high on Torain and he has shown some promise, but like some others have mentioned, he runs high and that might open him to injury and fumbles (or it might mean bupkis, but it looks strange). IMO, Williams has looked very promising and has produced. It'll be interesting to see what Willie shows this week.
Agreed. I think the coaches will have enough to make their decisions after this week.

akhhorus
08-26-2010, 09:00 AM
Who needs an eduacation when you can hit the hole without hesitating!

Last time I checked, they don't test for things like a player's knowledge on cartisian materialism lol.

skins4life24
08-26-2010, 09:05 AM
I think he'll be a contributor in the slot because he still has lateral quickness, but based on what I've seen, the days of Moss running successful fly patterns is over(or will be very soon).

The best thing Moss can do in this career right now is improve his route running working with McCardell, if he can run more precise routes I think he can still have a poor man's Wes Welker type year from the slot.

sinskin
08-26-2010, 11:03 AM
Last time I checked, they don't test for things like a player's knowledge on cartisian materialism lol.

By God, pay me 500k a year and i'll hit the hole!!


once!

:)

sidenote: Bet his degree was in Comminications lol

jaylen
08-26-2010, 11:44 AM
Anthony Armstrong reminds me of Issac Bruce alittle bit for some reason. I think with him, Moss the te's and we need one more guy to arise and we won't look to bad as wr options. Armstrong could become that unheralded guy to become a star. I hope the last guy is Thomas. The faith in Galloway seems misplaced by the coaches for a player that hasn't been productive in a couple years. So I'm not placing a whole lot on that at all.

shally
08-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Anthony Armstrong reminds me of Issac Bruce alittle bit for some reason. I think with him, Moss the te's and we need one more guy to arise and we won't look to bad as wr options. Armstrong could become that unheralded guy to become a star. I hope the last guy is Thomas. The faith in Galloway seems misplaced by the coaches for a player that hasn't been productive in a couple years. So I'm not placing a whole lot on that at all.

might be closer to McKardell, actually.. his best attribute is his route running. i dont think he is as big as Bruce.. he is also 27, so this is likely his last, best shot at making a team

jaylen
08-26-2010, 01:49 PM
might be closer to McKardell, actually.. his best attribute is his route running. i dont think he is as big as Bruce.. he is also 27, so this is likely his last, best shot at making a team

close to bruce Burce was 6'0 185 Armstrong is 5'11 same weight.

I think Armstrong is more of a deep thread than Mccardell was. I got a good feeling about the kid. always needed a shot. bruce ran those great routes as well.

akhhorus
08-26-2010, 03:19 PM
The best thing Moss can do in this career right now is improve his route running working with McCardell, if he can run more precise routes I think he can still have a poor man's Wes Welker type year from the slot.

Thats not a bad thought. Moss is very elusive(why he's always been an effective punt returner) and can outrun slow defenders.


sidenote: Bet his degree was in Comminications lol

lmao, thats cold blooded.

Anthony Armstrong reminds me of Issac Bruce alittle bit for some reason.

I see more Steve Breaston in him.