I wonder . . .

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

A couple a years ago, before the Skins hired Spurrier and crew, Danny Boy tried to get Parcells out of retirement to coach the Skins.

If the Skins had the players they do today and Bill Parcells was coaching them, how good would this team be today? I know we wouldn't be making all the stupid penalties. But how do you think they would do?

[jporterweb]

We would be the best team in the NFL.

[Emmanouel8]

I wonder IF Vince Lombardi was still alive would he still be our coach, how would he do I wonder? IF IF IF, bah get over it.

[Green-Is-Good]

I think Dan Reeves is under the gun in ATL. If he gets fired, Danny should give SS the boot and hire Reeves.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I'm not sure how helpful that would be.

[Green-Is-Good]

He's a great coach. He is good with QBs. He's sane. It's sad that that alone is a step above Spurrier.

[hail2skins]

I don't know how to handle this question.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Because, of course, GIG, Spurrier's ridiculously successful track record is obvious proof that he's a terrible coach.

[Green-Is-Good]

How successful has he been? 10-12.

College means NOTHING right now. We don't care about what he did in Gainsville or wherever the hell UF is. We care about what he is doing NOW, as the head coach of the Washington Redskins! This guy makes Norv look like a genius.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

He's had a season and a half, give the guy a break. I mean, seriously, you call the guy insane after he set an ungodly amount of records down there in Florida. Obviously he's not insane. We've seen pretty damn clearly that he can adjust to the NFL game. You're unhappy because he didn't fix every little problem that has arisen in his coaching in one season. Hell, Danny's been more patient than that.

[hail2skins]

Yeah GiG, I don't think you can say Spurrier can't coach in the NFL yet. There are so many more things that he has to learn to be successful.

[BigCountry]

Snyder still should have given Parcells what he gave Schottenheimer. I even said it back then... If there's someone we should bring outta college it's Mike Stoops to replace Edwards, if the defense keeps on stanking.

[Smiley]

There comes a point when you need to stop blaming coaches and start putting the responsiblity where it belongs.....the players. Our defense is overrated and our offense is very young. The offense will come around, I;m nore concerned with the defense. Players that are overrate on defense: Lavar (sorry Lavar), Smoot and Trotter. Armstead would be a nice situational player at this point but should not be in there every snap. We need to upgrade and get some youth on this defense.

[Emmanouel8]

What! Armstead is solid are you kidding me? The person who needs to be out of there in a hurry is Bruce Smith! Smoot?! Did you notice the defense completely collapsed when he went out? When you have no pass rush you can't lay blame on any of the DB's period.

They're hung out to dry. The LB's too, how on earth do you expect any LB to excel w/ that crap they put together they call a D-line.

Geez and now Dan Reeves too. Next week we win and all the sudden Spurrier is improving, adjusting, this and that bla bla and when we lose again Dan Reeves is available, Joe gIbbs was great, we could have had Parcells, is Hank Stram still alive, wamp wampwamp-wamp wamp wamp wamp.

[lakewinola]

Parcells was not going to take a coaching job until this year, no matter how much money offered. He just completed a divorce and did not want a huge NFL coaching contract to be a part of any settlement. This is why he turned down all of those offers the past couple of years. Once finalized he jumped back in with the cowboys.

[PennSkinsFan]

Trotter and Armstead overrated? What is you basis? One game? was it there fault? Heck I think both are having a fantastic year. I have always bashed Smoot, but yesterday showed me how valuable he is. When he left the game, it started crashing. I f we have overrated people on this team, look at the coaching staff. Spurrier, Stock, and Helton.

[Emmanouel8]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Trotter and Armstead overrated? What is you basis?

It's mind-boggling. I just looked at there stats and all three of them are the leading tacklers on this team (aside from Trotter who's 4th w/ Bowen ahead of him by 2 tackles). You want to know where our best D lineman ranks in tackles?

It's Renaldo Wynn but only after Bailey, Smoot and Ohalate! Are you kidding me?! The ENTIRE LB and DB crew is out tackling any D lineman! They stink!

When you have lineman that get shut down by one lineman and are rendered useless to society then you're in trouble!

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Because, of course, GIG, Spurrier's ridiculously successful track record is obvious proof that he's a terrible coach.

Spurrier doesn't seem to be able to handle NFL players. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DISCIPLINE ON THIS TEAM!!! The players do not respect him or his staff. That being said, how can he win? He can't unless he figures out that these aren't boys that need to be coddled. These are big, strong men with HUGE wallets that couldn't care less about winning as long as they get their paycheck. Parcells would make it a miserable experience to be arround Redskin Park every minute of every day after a loss until he is winning AND satisfied.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DISCIPLINE ON THIS TEAM!!! The players do not respect him or his staff. That being said, how can he win?

This was the first I've heard of the players not respecting Spurrier. I'd love to know where you heard that. (Or are you simply assuming that because of recent poor play?)

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Smilack
There comes a point when you need to stop blaming coaches and start putting the responsiblity where it belongs.....the players. Our defense is overrated and our offense is very young. The offense will come around, I;m nore concerned with the defense. Players that are overrate on defense: Lavar (sorry Lavar), Smoot and Trotter. Armstead would be a nice situational player at this point but should not be in there every snap. We need to upgrade and get some youth on this defense.

Again, I see our main problem as discipline, which lies with the coaching staff and nobody else.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
This was the first I've heard of the players not respecting Spurrier. I'd love to know where you heard that. (Or are you simply assuming that because of recent poor play?)

I assuming because there is NO discipline on this team. Players are getting penalties constantly. That is 100% a lack of discipline.

NO DISCIPLINE = NO RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dj_stouty]

Yeah...and I guess a Head Coach who yells his head off at his team creates discipline? Which then creates respect? Which then creates less penalties? Which then create winners?

Its doesn't always work that way. There are a LOT of loud, military-esque head coaches right now with worse records than the Skins have. Marty Shotz and Jim Hasslet come to mind real quick.

[NamVet4]

We don't need to continue the coaching carousell!
Give the "Old Ball Coach " a chance. Danny Boy is; and if Danny Boy fires him at the end of the season - so be it - it's on him - it's his team.
In the meantime, we're 3 - 3 and we can argue about each team we beat and each team we lost to. In the end its only the "W"s that count! I have been and will contiue to be critical of the entire organization, FO, coaches, players, etc. But, damn, lets play a few more games!!!!
All I ask is that there is improvement in each game. So far this season there has been a mix of improvement and regression.
I'm pissed when we regress where we have made improvment!
And I really, really do hope that the coaches check this board; there are concise, intelligent and to the point criticsms that are valid and ideas that are worth exploring.... and they say we're only fans!

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by NamVet4
All I ask is that there is improvement in each game. So far this season there has been a mix of improvement and regression.


Great point, Nam...

There are a number of things we used to do well early on, that we are now doing horribly. (ie...holding a defense to only a FG inside the Red Zone...or...throwing the ball downfield better)

And then there are the things we are doing better. (ie...better field positioning on kick returns...or...creating more turnovers)

Lets hope they all get on the same page, and do them ALL in one game. (and by that...I mean ALL SIXTY MINUTES!) (or more...if OT!):smash:

[resdog56]

Press the panic button, already! It's week 6, be patient, we have played a rough schedule and we have a new mix of players. Let's relax, take a deep breath and get ready for the Bills. 1 game at a time, folks.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
Yeah...and I guess a Head Coach who yells his head off at his team creates discipline? Which then creates respect? Which then creates less penalties? Which then create winners?

Its doesn't always work that way. There are a LOT of loud, military-esque head coaches right now with worse records than the Skins have. Marty Shotz and Jim Hasslet come to mind real quick.

Who said anything about screaming his head off? Disciple doesn't have to mean yelling. Damn!! I hope your not a father if you think that.

[Brett A]

mix of improvement and regression

Thats what you get when you have as young a team as we have

Our Offensive starters yeaterday AVG 26yrs old

and that was The World Champs we went toe to toe for for 2 1/2 qts


Brett

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Brett A
mix of improvement and regression

Thats what you get when you have as young a team as we have

Our Offensive starters yeaterday AVG 26yrs old

and that was The World Champs we went toe to toe for for 2 1/2 qts


Brett

I don't care how young they are, they've been playing football with rules all of their lives. Maybe if they didn't commit 11 penalties a game (which by the way would SHATTER the NFL record) and blow half of their blocking assignments they would be 5 - 1. They should be (possibly 6 - 0 with a complete effort yesterday, I just counted TB as a loss because its a game I expected Tampa to win)

[PennSkinsFan]

Improvement I NEED to see....

We have to cut penalities. Again they added 9 more to the total. We wont win football games, especially closes ones, putting up a consistent 9 pentalties per game. We need to see improvement in handling the blitz.


Improvement we won't see....

Pass rushing. We simply do not have the personnel on the Line to do it.

[Green-Is-Good]

I DID give him a chance. These 6 games were his chance to prove himself.

[Spence]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
Who said anything about screaming his head off? Disciple doesn't have to mean yelling. Damn!! I hope your not a father if you think that. Careful. Do not pursue this line any further. Keep your points about the team and leave your assumptions about the personal characteristics of our members out of it.

[Spence]

Mark's correct about the pass rush problem. Myself and many others warned everyone at the beginning of the season that the pass rush was going to be a constant problem this year. It was awful last year when Lavar was not blitzing. We don't have the personnel, which is why I've been going on and on and on about upgrading the defensive line over the offseason. Draft. Whatever we can afford in free agency after re-signing Champ. You name it.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
Who said anything about screaming his head off? Disciple doesn't have to mean yelling. Damn!! I hope your not a father if you think that.

To piggy back on what Spence just said, AZ. Please don't make this personal.

Getting back on the actual subject; If you re-read my post, I made a point of showing how "YELLING" does not create discipline by using Haslett and Marty as examples.

[Hailyeah]

First of all, Bill Parcells should be dead to all of us. He now wears a star on his windbreaker that symbolizes the Anti-'Chief'. No matter how wonderful of a coach he is, he's the hated enemy who will get no praise from me. Being the best Giants coach of our lifetimes should be reason enough not to want him in DC. Just shocked how far along hypothetical jabber can go.

Secondly, I agree that we don't need to abandon ship now on Spurrier. Yes, there are problems. Yes, Spurrier, Helton, and the other offensive coaches have helped almost killed Ramsey (although I'm with those that are blaming the players execution more than the scheme). What should be done though? New regime already. Champ, Ram, and Lavar will just love that. As painful as this is, we've gotta ride this out, no matter how bad it might get and allow SS one more year to get this righted. I can't think of one scenario, other than losing all of our remaining games, that would sway me into thinking we need to clean house again at season's end. As die-hard fans, we'll just continue to take our lumps as we're so familiar with doing already and simply back our squad.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
To piggy back on what Spence just said, AZ. Please don't make this personal.

Getting back on the actual subject; If you re-read my post, I made a point of showing how "YELLING" does not create discipline by using Haslett and Marty as examples.

I am not trying to make anything personal. I am sorry if I offended anyone. The point I was trying to make is just that if someone believes the only way to discipline is to yell and scream they would not make a good father. There are lots of ways to discipline like longer practices, more running, longer film study sessions, etc.

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone.

[PennSkinsFan]

No one is calling for "regime change", at least with the Redskins. I am upset with Spurrier, I dont believe he is coaching well at this point, playcalling has improved, but overall Head Coaching, i simply don't see it yet. But to go as far as calling for his ouster, that would set this franchise back at leats five additional years.


That being said.....Spurrier's comments about taking more of an overall executive role with this team, demanding accountability and from not just players, but coaches as well, demaning that certain players (Upshaw and Jackson) see more playing time, giving input on defense, this all is helping soothe my feelings. This is ALL I EVER WANTED from Steve Spurrier, THATS IT! DO IT STEVE! Basically my beef with Steve Spurrier is his actions have been that of an offensive coordinator, not a head coach. I want Steve Spurrier, the HEAD COACH! The comments in his interview on 980 makes me feel like he is ready to step and take control. thats exactly what I have been waiting for.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Hailyeah
First of all, Bill Parcells should be dead to all of us. He now wears a star on his windbreaker that symbolizes the Anti-'Chief'. No matter how wonderful of a coach he is, he's the hated enemy who will get no praise from me. Being the best Giants coach of our lifetimes should be reason enough not to want him in DC. Just shocked how far along hypothetical jabber can go.

Secondly, I agree that we don't need to abandon ship now on Spurrier. Yes, there are problems. Yes, Spurrier, Helton, and the other offensive coaches have helped almost killed Ramsey (although I'm with those that are blaming the players execution more than the scheme). What should be done though? New regime already. Champ, Ram, and Lavar will just love that. As painful as this is, we've gotta ride this out, no matter how bad it might get and allow SS one more year to get this righted. I can't think of one scenario, other than losing all of our remaining games, that would sway me into thinking we need to clean house again at season's end. As die-hard fans, we'll just continue to take our lumps as we're so familiar with doing already and simply back our squad.

When I started this thread I was just asking a simple question. Where do you think we would be with Parcells as a coach? The reason I asked that is that IMO the Redskins have a whole bunch more talent than the Cowboys, but the Cowboys are playing much, much better. The difference I am seeing is simply in discipline. Last years Cowboys sucked bad. They got a ton of stupid penalties and made a lot of bad decisions. This year they have mostly the same "shitty" players, but a new coach and those mistakes and penalties are at a minimun and they are playing great.

It is my belief that Parcells standard for discipline in practice forces his players to play with discipline in the games. I am not asking for Spurriers head. I think SS has a great offensive mind. I just feel he needs to get a hold of his team before they completely abbandon ship. Ramsey is getting frustraded with him. Do we want Ramsey on the bench and Rob Johnson out there because Ramsey and Spurrier don't get along? What about the players only meeting that seem to be about the players venting there frustrations with each other about Spurrier, is that healthy for a team? I guess these meetings can be as long as they are not just having a bitch session about the coach.

I just want Spurrier to take a lesson or two from Parcells. Discipline your team. Practice an extra couple of hours a day until they start to play better, smarter, more mistake free football. Until then the Skins will never be any good.

[camasterton]

Parcells is a dinosaur who will burn out himself and wear out his act with today's "professionals". If you think Lavar et al, chafed against Marvin Lewis last year, Marty Schottenhiemer before that...( w/ LaVar, JoPa before that), then what do you think they would have done with a Parcells' lovefest? If Spurrier has a fault, it is that he is an offensive play designer and caller. He does not lord over the whole team, scaring them into submission and mocking them into doing thier jobs. He has always assumed football players come into the NFL knowing how and why to block, tackle, not commit stupid penalties... That and over-estimating the talent, may be his mistakes. I can't see him changing his personality. Altering his playbook might be the only way to cover up the players lack of understanding.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
The point I was trying to make is just that if someone believes the only way to discipline is to yell and scream they would not make a good father. There are lots of ways to discipline like longer practices, more running, longer film study sessions, etc.


For the third time...no one said yelling/screaming at the team (or anyone) creates discipline. I think we are in agreement on this.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
The point I was trying to make is just that if someone believes the only way to discipline is to yell and scream they would not make a good father. There are lots of ways to discipline like longer practices, more running, longer film study sessions, etc.


HMMMM ....... when I was growing up it was call a good swift kick in the ass (OK so I'm older than 99.5% of you).
Longer practices at this point produce resentment. More running is not going to happen because the guys are pretty beat by now and can't really run, and longer film study sessions prove what - hell, I don't care if the other team tells you what the play their are going to run is - IF you don't execute properly IT AIN'T going to help you one damn bit!!!!

So give them (coaches included) all time-outs.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Yeah, I'd hate to have Parcells come in and coach, win a couple of Super Bowls, getting burnt out in the process and retire. That would suck.:rolleyes:

[hail2skins]

I'm not throwing in the towel on Spurrier. This is his 2nd season and we're only 6 games into it. He still has alot to learn, alot. I think the blame can be placed on both players and scheme when it comes to blocking. You can also attribute some of it to Ramsey as well. If they're bringing 8 people and we only have a scheme which accounts for 6 or 7 then Ramsey needs to see that. He can't stick with the drop back (5 or 7 step) play that is called in that situation. He has to get to a 3 step drop and the hot receiver. This was explained by Spurrier yesterday on one of the plays where Ramsey was sacked. Now, when the oline is getting beat and double and triple teaming one player on the defense, then there's obviously a problem with the scheme or a player made a mistake.

As for the Parcells thing, who knows what would happen. He's not here so I don't give a damn about him. Speculating does us no good. We have Spurrier and he has my support. Let's move forward.