Bye Week - State of the Redskins - open thread

[redskin_rich]

Just wanted a general "state of the Redskins" now and moving forward thread to talk about anything and everything that has happened and how it affects our beloved team moving forward.

Personally, I think things are going downhill fast. We had plenty of holes going into the season and found more along the way but the team has played surprisingly well as a team. But now, in a moment of sheer stupidity, the coach went and screwed with the sacred cow and all Hell was unleashed. There definitely seems to be division in the locker room and I think the only thing the team is unified in is questioning why the coach yanked his franchise QB in the most crucial of times. Everyone on the team except for Rex (Frat boy) Grossman, anyways.

That said, I sense a serious arse kicking coming to us on Monday night in a couple weeks. I sure hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing the signs of a season about to go belly up in grand fashion.

[smave]

Just wanted a general "state of the Redskins" now and moving forward thread to talk about anything and everything that has happened and how it affects our beloved team moving forward.

Personally, I think things are going downhill fast. We had plenty of holes going into the season and found more along the way but the team has played surprisingly well as a team. But now, in a moment of sheer stupidity, the coach went and screwed with the sacred cow and all Hell was unleashed. There definitely seems to be division in the locker room and I think the only thing the team is unified in is questioning why the coach yanked his franchise QB in the most crucial of times. Everyone on the team except for Rex (Frat boy) Grossman, anyways.

That said, I sense a serious arse kicking coming to us on Monday night in a couple weeks. I sure hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing the signs of a season about to go belly up in grand fashion.

totally agree.

[shally]

the team is tired and needs some time away from the coaches and with family.. we might get beaten on monday night, but it will be because Philly plays better.. i actually think we wll play a solid game.

McNabb needs to get healthy and the coaches need to figure a way to improve the o line.

nothing improves a team's attitude like winning. beat philly, and all will be right with the team's psyche.. a losing streak would be devastating

[guess88]

Meh.. in later interviews I saw, DMC didn't seem too upset about being benched, and maybe he really physically couldn't do it anymore for the game, and they were afraid he'd get hurt. Not that I support the benching, I was livid, but the team, Shanny, DMC, and I think everyone else will move on from this quickly. Any Redskins loss before the bye week is catastrophic for the Redskins fan base, and the surprising benching makes it 1000x worse.

On a semi bright side, we're starting to see what kind of players we have that'll work in the system the Shanny's are implementing. Remember, there's still a lot the coaches have to learn about the players, things you can't replicate with practice. I think our biggest weakness overall is the lack of a decent center.

I loved Rabach when he first came, but he quickly showed us why the Ravens let him go, and reminds us more and more every Sunday. I now firmly believe he's almost the sole reason why we have horrible run and pass protection. Every opponent gets a push up the middle... the most sacred spot taken for granted in the O line. Notice how we almost never run inside. Notice how the pocket quickly collapses in the middle.

If no moves are made to find a new center during the bye week (I don't think they'll look till the offseason), then the coaches need to reverse their game plan. They broadcasted that Shanny's offensive plan is to look for the deep pass first, and then make your reads lastly to the short pass. Due to the lack of pass protection, they should go have DMC look for the short pass first, and work his way up to the deep route. This enables him to get in rhythm and get the ball out before the pressure comes. Deep plays require time to develop.. DMC simply doesn't have much. Shanny's, help the man out!!!

[SkinsfaninNJ]

It is amazing what one bad coach's decision can do. If McNabb have come back out and failed to score the go ahead TD and the Skins lost 31-25, we would be talking about how McNabb must start to play better, how the line must protect better and how the receivers have to stop with the drops. Certainly, the sky would not be failing.

It just goes to show you how bad a decision it was, even in hindsight. However, I do think the team can turn it around. Beat Philly at home, and things will look much better. Lose the next couple of games, and the snowball will be too big to stop before the offseason.

[joethefan]

If they can't get this crap taken cre of in 10 days then we are worse off then we all think we are...losing to philly is a reality but getting blown out is another.

Although I will say Donovan brings leadership to a position that hadn't had one in years, he is not a medium QB. Either he does really well or he does really bad IMO. you can best believe this team needs its ST and D to play well because the offensive production (point wise), has not been there. that ultimately goes on the QB. Remember we were saying it about JC. So I will hold Donovan to a higher standard than Jason because Donovan is the 11 year all pro.

I heard Kyle say just last week that they would have liked for McNabb to be further in the Offense than he is. Now that says something about how the coaches feel about him. Too many balls thrown to the ground or not reaching their destination....most of his incompletions are thrown to the ground..which means he's not putting enough into his throws from his legs. And it has been noted that they have been trying to work with his footwork..but for some reason it's not working out. And let's also remember he's playing for a contract too...so yess he'll tell shanny he's good and didn't want to sit out the detroit game. He wants to show that he can play a full season without injury....but his short throwing game shows me there is work needed there.

[redskin_rich]

the team is tired and needs some time away from the coaches and with family.. we might get beaten on monday night, but it will be because Philly plays better.. i actually think we wll play a solid game.

McNabb needs to get healthy and the coaches need to figure a way to improve the o line.

nothing improves a team's attitude like winning. beat philly, and all will be right with the team's psyche.. a losing streak would be devastating

I agree completely with almost everything you say but what makes you think we will win this next game? We brought physical play to Philly last time, which they seemed to not be prepared for. We knocked out their their starting QB. Still, if not for an unthinkable drop by a receiver on the last play, we lose that game. This time, they will be better prepared, will match our physicality and it is a Monday Night Game in our stadium, which we have historically gotten embarrassed badly.

[Death_Venom]

This season so far this season has had its fair share of ups and downs. We played quite a few nail biters, and come out on top. That being said watching this team succeed (and fail) our expectations have risen prematurely about final outcome of this season-whether it be a wild card spot or missing the mark completely.

We head into the bye week bruised, battered, and more than likely weary. Lets hope this week off we get things back into focus and back on track.

Hopefully the FIRST order of business will be to find a more competent Center than Rabach-I find highly unlikely that this will be addressed during the bye week. Furthermore I hope K-Shan Jr gets his act straightened out and gets the offensive gameplan in order, as well learns to make some halftime adjustments.

[colkurtz]

The bye week provides the team to recuperate and to deal with several problem areas. Rabach has to go and they've got to make a switch now! Teams are going to center their efforts on Rabach so that problem is going to get better not worse.

Time to stop playing Galloway. There has got to be at least ONE player on this team with more potential than this dinosaur. Once again it is time to give someone, anyone younger a chance in this second half of the season to take his place.

I thought this was an 8-8 team and we're still running there. I feel like the team is slow to make adjustments in games, because of coaching. We've got a long way to go to become elite. Time to make some personnel changes and play some guys who can make a difference this year versus continuing to play guys who will not be on the team next year.

[flave1969]

The bye week provides the team to recuperate and to deal with several problem areas. Rabach has to go and they've got to make a switch now! Teams are going to center their efforts on Rabach so that problem is going to get better not worse.

Time to stop playing Galloway. There has got to be at least ONE player on this team with more potential than this dinosaur. Once again it is time to give someone, anyone younger a chance in this second half of the season to take his place.

I thought this was an 8-8 team and we're still running there. I feel like the team is slow to make adjustments in games, because of coaching. We've got a long way to go to become elite. Time to make some personnel changes and play some guys who can make a difference this year versus continuing to play guys who will not be on the team next year.

Totally Agree.

I see no reason to not bring Cook up from the PS and bench Rabach. I can't see Lichtenstieger being better at C, he has been woeful at Guard so get Dockery back. With line play like this there is no way to justify him not dressing.

At this stage we have nothing to lose by promoting our Practice Squad talent and going for victory rather than mailing it in with over the hill players.

What is clear is that we need another two seasons and a revolution in the playing personnel if we are truly to challenge.

[dj_stouty]

Vegas has the Skins as 8 point underdogs to the Bye Week. Ugh...

[JRudy]

I agree completely with almost everything you say but what makes you think we will win this next game? We brought physical play to Philly last time, which they seemed to not be prepared for. We knocked out their their starting QB. Still, if not for an unthinkable drop by a receiver on the last play, we lose that game. This time, they will be better prepared, will match our physicality and it is a Monday Night Game in our stadium, which we have historically gotten embarrassed badly.

While I agree with all your points, the last time we played Philly we had previously lost to the Rams and everyone (including myself) was saying that philly would role us. I think it will be a competitive game, could go either way. Its a divisional game, so hopefully shanny can get this locker room back together in two weeks.

[shally]

While I agree with all your points, the last time we played Philly we had previously lost to the Rams and everyone (including myself) was saying that philly would role us. I think it will be a competitive game, could go either way. Its a divisional game, so hopefully shanny can get this locker room back together in two weeks.

my thoughts as well. they are a hard team to get a true read on, except they seem to be able to be competitve against all their opponents

[Patrick]

The bye week brings nothing more than some rest for those players who are physically worn out. All the other damage to this team is going to last throughout the season. As far as changes go – whatever is done is not going to make any difference.

[shally]

The bye week brings nothing more than some rest for those players who are physically worn out. All the other damage to this team is going to last throughout the season. As far as changes go – whatever is done is not going to make any difference.

too much being made of all the non football issues.. the team got through the Haynesworth mess, and they will get through this as well. Winning cures everything. Losing leaves hangovers

[cal_junior]

Vegas has the Skins as 8 point underdogs to the Bye Week. Ugh...

Makes sense. I'm fairly certain the bye week is unbeaten all-time.

[Skins7ny]

The way I view it, we are a team with 5 or 6 win talent on paper that is playing .500 ball. That is pretty good. I think the team will rally around McNabb, and McNabb will bounce back and put up some numbers against Philly. If we can produce a running game and/or some turnovers, I think we win the game, even though Philly is the better team right now.

Team should improve in 2nd half as players get more acclimaed to schemes on both sides of the ball.

Here is mid-year assessment:

QB-I don't blame Shanahans for being frustrated. They are trying to work on McNabb's footwork to make him better, and appearances are that McNabb is not being responsive. I am sure McNabb feels that he is HOF-level 11-year veteran who has acheived his level of successs doing things the way he has been doing things, he is not going to change esp. for a 1-year head coach. What I don't understand is why all of this was not vetted before we acquired McNabb. If McNabb said (as he did at the initial presser) that he would work on his game with Shanahan like Elway did late in his caeer, then maybe Shanahan has a point. It is mostly speculation at this point.

What seems clear is that McNabb will be somewhere else next year and we will be spending a high draft choice on a QB. Question is, what do get in return for McNabb?

RB-Portis will be released and I doubt he catches on with another team. He is done. WIlliams is OK 3rd back, but Torian gets hurt too much and may be too inconsistent in his decision-making to be relied upon as the bell-cow back. I think he is best-suited for 2nd string and short yardage. If so, we need a new RB next year. We seem set at FB with Sellers (for 1 more year) and Darrel Young, who is supposed to be a future starter.

TE-Davis has been big disappointment this year, but hasn't been felt that much because we have Cooley. Same 3 probably return next year.

WR-I would swap out Roydell Williams for Terrence Austin right now and give Austin significant PT. I would keep Galloway over Williams b/c he has proven to be able to get open for a bomb once a game, which is of value on a team that relies a lot on big plays in the absence of a consistent short passing game. I see a high draft pick coming in to compete for starting position, although Armstrong could continue to grow into that role. Preference would be for a possession-type, over-the middle 90-100 receiver with size. As we know, drafting WRs is a real crapshoot. But that is why they pay Allehan the big bucks-to find those players.

OL-We replaced 4 starters last off-season, and may need to do the same this off-season. Jammal Brown has been a major disappointment. Could just be lingering effects from his surgery last year, and there is good hope he will return to form at RT in 2011. But there is no guarantee. Casey Rabach should be benched today, but we don't know if Cook is capable of manning the position. Will Montgomery played last year and was a train wreck. Hicks has been mildly disappointing and should return to backup swingman status in 2011. Williams has been terrific when healthy. Looks like Allehan made right move picking him over Okung-better fit for our offense.

We need new starters at C, RG and LG. Additionally, we will probably be cutting Dockery and Montgomery and maybe Lichtensteiger, so we will need 3 new backups as well. Cook and Capers may fill two spots, but still there is a lot to do here this off-season.

DL-Look at what Martin Mayhew is doing in Detroit-he built his D-Line around 2 excellent outside pass-rushers and a stud, dominating DT. and a good-but-not great 2nd DT. Sound familiar? Just like his mentor Richie Petitbone (Mann-Manley/Stokes and Butz-Grant).

Moreover, Jim Schwartz worked with Haynesworth in Tennessee and brought over Vandenbosch and drafted Suh in order to mimic those days. His 4-3 pass rush produced 7 sacks, forced McNabb into one costly turnover and gift-wrapped a second one if the Lion' D o not drop it.

We could have the same thing with Orakpo-Haynesworth-Keomatu (Jarmon on passing downs)-Carter. I am sure the 3-4 will be good eventually, but I still prefer the 4-3.

Next year, we need to draft a young NT in case Keomatu does not progress further in his return from 2009 Achilles' tear, and if Bryant is not an adequate backup NT.

LB-dominating 3-4 defenses have dominant pass-rushers at both OLB positions. We don't. We need to find one in FA or the draft this off-season. I love Lorenzo Alexander, but he might be best-suited to nickle-and other duties.

DB-Buchanon has played very well as a 3rd CB. I love how he instinctively knows when to go for the fumble on a reciever. He has been very good in coverage. Next year, need starting-caliber FS (Kareem Moore has been a big disappointment since he returned from injury) and a CB to challenge Kevin Barnes for his roster spot-he cannot get on the field, must not be impressing. We may need a new starter at CB if Rogers leaves via unrestricted free agency.

[Moe]

my thoughts as well. they are a hard team to get a true read on, except they seem to be able to be competitve against all their opponents

Philly are quite similar to the Skins in some ways. They are more productive offensively, but hardly consistent and their defense has been very up and down. Their collapse in the 4th quarter against Tennessee was pathetic and for all the talk of how bad McNabb is in the two minute drill, guess who's worse? Kolb.

I agree with your first post, the BYE is coming at the right time. They need to get away, re-evaluate and get healthy. Two positives that have trended lately has been the improvements of the D and special teams finally being a threat that other teams have to think about. The coaches and players on offense need to pick it up, but Philly is a defense that they should be able to get some production against and with improved play from Al up front, there'll be more hits to come against Philly's porous o-line.

At the end of the day, this team is the very definition of a .500 team, which I think is what the majority of people saw coming. They can play with anybody, but just as easily lose as well.

[Skins7ny]

too much being made of all the non football issues.. the team got through the Haynesworth mess, and they will get through this as well. Winning cures everything. Losing leaves hangovers
I agree-we beat the Eagles and McNabb plays well, all of this is forgotten....until contract renewal talks with Donovan and his agent in the off-season.

[Skins7ny]

One thing I forgot to mention in my analysis was Brandon Banks-he needs to hold on to the ball and continue not to give it up. I love him but he scares the heck out of me every time I see him about to catch the football.
HIs ability to avoid turnovers on returns is crucial to any hopes we have of making the playoffs.

[cal_junior]

The way I view it, we are a team with 5 or 6 win talent on paper that is playing .500 ball. That is pretty good.

So you think upgrades at head coach, defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, QB, LT and RT were only good enough for a 1 or 2 game improvement over '09?

[shally]

So you think upgrades at head coach, defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, QB, LT and RT were only good enough for a 1 or 2 game improvement over '09?

4 win season to 8 win season is a net plus 4.. i will take that next year as well.
4 wins 2009
8 wins 2010
12 wins 2011

steady progress towards being a dominant team. there was so much work due to the trainwreck that Cerrato left that it is unreasonable to expect more than .500 this year..

[cal_junior]

4 win season to 8 win season is a net plus 4

He said he thought we had 5 or 6-win talent. I just don't think you can improve so many aspects of the organization and not at least bump yourselves up to 7 or 8-win talent.

If you had told me before the season how good our left tackle was going to be I would have predicted 9-7.

[shally]

He said he thought we had 5 or 6-win talent. I just don't think you can improve so many aspects of the organization and not at least bump yourselves up to 7 or 8-win talent.

If you had told me before the season how good our left tackle was going to be I would have predicted 9-7.

except that it wasnt just a left tackle the o line needed. Rabach has been a liability for more than this year.. Big Mike Williams was the projected starter at Guard until his illness. we are talking multiple positions of need in the o line

[cal_junior]

except that it wasnt just a left tackle the o line needed. Rabach has been a liability for more than this year.. Big Mike Williams was the projected starter at Guard until his illness. we are talking multiple positions of need in the o line

Agreed. My point is that you take last year's team and add a SB-winning head coach, Pro Bowl QB, top-5 draft pick at LT, Pro Bowl RT and bump up the quality of both coordinators and that's better than one or two games.

I just think to say: "Well we've got 5-11 talent and we're on pace for 8-8, so thing are going well" is a little too optimistic.

If McNabb plays slightly above-average this season we're 6-2 right now. At least.

[shally]

Agreed. My point is that you take last year's team and add a SB-winning head coach, Pro Bowl QB, top-5 draft pick at LT, Pro Bowl RT and bump up the quality of both coordinators and that's better than one or two games.

I just think to say: "Well we've got 5-11 talent and we're on pace for 8-8, so thing are going well" is a little too optimistic.

If McNabb plays slightly above-average this season we're 6-2 right now. At least.


i think that is what must be behind Shanahan's benching of McNabb. clearly if he runs a more efficient offense we could have won two more games easily. and that is through the roughest part of the schedule..

Shanny must be replaying that coulda woulda shoulda rant in his head..

but, if McNabb turns it around in the second half, we still have a legitimate shot at 10-6.. but it has to start with cleaning Philly's clock and following it up with a split with the Giants and another win against Dallas. if we win 3 out of those 4, we can do it.. not saying it is easy, or even expected, but the way the defense and special teams are playing it wont take too much improvement by the offense to win more games..Shanahan has to see this and get the urgency into McNabb's game

[Skins7ny]

So you think upgrades at head coach, defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, QB, LT and RT were only good enough for a 1 or 2 game improvement over '09? As you know predicting is a very inexact science, but yes. IMO, we have had one of the least talented and least deep rosters in the league for several years running. I have been saying that consistently over the years. Snyderatto left the cupboard very bare, especially on offense. We have some talent on defense, but my view in the off-season is that we are negating the best of that talent by moving to a 3-4. Carter proved in SanFran that he cannot play OLB in a 3-4, and Haynesworth obviously was not buying in, and was correct in asserting that his skills would be wasted in a 3-4. All that has come to pass exactly as I anticipated (patting myself on the back a little, but hey, you asked). There is usually a big learning curve when switching systems, although last year's Packers were a big and hopeful exception.

The reality is that after years of pining for a pass-rush, we finally got 3 D-Lineman that could do the job (Orakpo got most of his 11 sacks last year from a down-lineman position, Carter had one of the best years [pass and run] a RDE has had in recent memory and Haynesworth was a beast when he played hard). Moving to a 3-4 would help Orakpo's pass rush but hurt Carter and Haynesworth, and I was not sure that our LBs would adapt well to the change. I think our LBs (except Orakpo, who cannot cover and does not play well in space and of course Carter, who already has moved back to DE full-time) have adjusted well, much better than I expected. Actually, the defense is playing a little better than I thought it would play, points-wise (which is what really matters). But we went from being a yards-stingy defenes to one with lots of holes almost overnight.

As far as the offense is concerned, we went into last off-season with maybe, at most, 1 O-Lineman who I consider worthy of an NFL roster, and that would have been mediocre OG Derrick Dockery. Switching to a zone blocking scheme, which requires lighter, more athletic linemen when we were built by Joe Bugel for years in the Redskins preferred mauling style was a big adjustment. Now Dockery is on the bench, and the only change we made of all ones on the line you cite that is paying dividiends is Trent Williams. Who is still a rookie with growing pains, although he sure looks like a Pro Bowler in 2011. The 3 interior positions must be replaced, and our depth is non-existent for 2011. We might even need to replace Jammal Brown at RT. He has been a huge disappointment.

Our improvement at WR has been one guy, Anthony Armstrong, who I love but who does not make up for the stench of the last four years. The fact that both Joey Galloway and Roydell Williams both made our roster and are still there tells you all you need to know about our talent level at WR.

At RB, we went into camp with Washed Up, More Washed Up, and Most Washed Up as our top 3 backs. Torian and Keiland Williams are nice additions, but neither of them was predicted to make the team in the off-season (although I thought Torian would).

As far as McNabb is concerned, I viewed him as an upgrade worth 1 to 3 wins. I thought we would regress with our new systems on offense and defense, but that McNabb is good enough to pull some wins out of the fire. He has been a dissapointement, but he still appears to have been the difference b/2 4-4 and maybe 2-6. Although I will always be curious what would have happened had Shanahan given Campbell1 year under their tutelage to see how he'd progress, use the 2nd-rounder we gave to Phully for an O-Lineman (OT Charles Brown was available, as was G/T Vlad Ducasse) and then draft a QB in round 1 in 2011 if Shanahan was not satisfied that they could develop Campbell. As much as I like McNabb, that is what I would have preferred to see happen.

Campbelll reminds me a lot of a younger McNabb without the organizational and coaching support. Strong arm, excellent mobility but a pocket passer first, inconsistent and streaky but with ability to make good decisions and to make things happen when the play breaks down.

I think all things considered, we are very fortunate to be 4-4.
i think that is what must be behind Shanahan's benching of McNabb. clearly if he runs a more efficient offense we could have won two more games easily. and that is through the roughest part of the schedule..

Shanny must be replaying that coulda woulda shoulda rant in his head..

but, if McNabb turns it around in the second half, we still have a legitimate shot at 10-6.. but it has to start with cleaning Philly's clock and following it up with a split with the Giants and another win against Dallas. if we win 3 out of those 4, we can do it.. not saying it is easy, or even expected, but the way the defense and special teams are playing it wont take too much improvement by the offense to win more games..Shanahan has to see this and get the urgency into McNabb's gameMcNabb has never been known for urgency. It appears that the Shanahans want him to become Mr. Uptempo Urgency and that is just not Donovan's style. People mistake this demeanor for a lack of urgency or caring, but when times are tough they praise his demeanor for being cool, calm and impossible to rattle. They are flip sides of the same coin. I doubt that Donovan would change his personality even if he could. And he certainly is not going to change it for a coach who wants to get rid of him at the end of year.

[GibbsFan]

Benching McNabb could seriously affect the locker room. I think the players had been buying into Shanny, even as bad as we have looked they basically stole 2 games and won 2 on sheer will. Last years team would have faltered in every circumstance. So I give Shanny and staff a B- for turning the culture back towards a winning one.

But I can't understand benching Donovan for the life of me. I doubt the team can either. The Oline as everyone knows, has been and is a continuing problem. Shanny and company have not been able to coach this group any better than Bugel or anyone else. The problem lies in that they are basically all bums not hardly worth a roster spot much less starting. Trent has been great when healthy, and if we had 4 more like him we could probably win this years SB. Jammal, when healthy is a good run blocker and ok in pass protection. Unfortunately, he's in and out of the lineup and the interior group leaves a lot to be desired. Hicks was a great backup in Minnesota, and he would make a great backup here in Washington. But he starts, and is meh at best. Which is the best because the other two interior starters, Lichtensteiger and Rabach, are awful, gawd awful as in we are damn lucky to be a .500 team with starting linemen like this.

Which brings me back to the dilema, you benched McNabb for Grossman. Rex Grossman, who could not win with a great d and a solid running game in Chicago. It makes you wonder if Kyle is getting it on with Rexy because I sure as Hell don't see anything that makes up a great QB, or even a great relief guy off the bench. I bet DMC can out run, out cardio, and whup old Rexy even on a bad ankle. Get back to getting the best players on the field, before that B- turns into a D-, and 4-4 turns into 6-10 or something worse that makes me pull the rest of my hair out.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Up until the Lions game I was quite happy with the direction the Skins were headed. They were much more competitive than I expected and making the most out of an average roster full of holes. It actually seemed like the Redskins were being run by professionals again and that the team culture, which had been long diseased, may actually be changing for the better.

That was until team Shanahan decided to inexplicably pull McNabb and then pour gasoline on the situation with even worse excuses/lies for benching McNabb. Now it seems to me like all the good work and credibility the Shanny's had built up has crumbled under this storm of crap they created and once again the Skins are a team with clubhouse turmoil. I know McNabb hasn't been great, especially in terms of accuracy, but I don't think that should come as a surprise to anybody. Regardless, anyone who honestly thinks that Rex Grossman would ever give you a better opportunity to win than McNabb, under any scenario, is completely mental and really doesn't instill confidence moving forward. Shanny should have come out and admitted that he royally screwed up and put the situation to rest instead of exacerbating it with lame cover ups and excuses. Unfortunately I think his ego is way too large for that and I think his ego could be a long term issue.

It is just mind boggling to me how bad that decision was, and even more mind boggling how the fallout was handled. It is almost like he wanted to sabotage himself and the team. It makes absolutely no sense to me and is stupid on so many levels.

[cal_junior]

[QUOTE=MONK_in_HOF;1348995]That was until team Shanahan decided to inexplicably pull McNabb and then pour gasoline on the situation with even worse excuses/lies for benching McNabb. /QUOTE]

Only one Shanahan was telling fishy stories. Just saying . . .

[MONK_in_HOF]

Agreed. My point is that you take last year's team and add a SB-winning head coach, Pro Bowl QB, top-5 draft pick at LT, Pro Bowl RT and bump up the quality of both coordinators and that's better than one or two games.

I just think to say: "Well we've got 5-11 talent and we're on pace for 8-8, so thing are going well" is a little too optimistic.

If McNabb plays slightly above-average this season we're 6-2 right now. At least.

I think it is more of a case of if the OL plays average we are 6-2 right now. I realize McNabb is inconsistent and misses a lot of passes that should be completed, but he also makes plays that shouldn't be made and aren't made by most QBs. Without an elusive QB like McNabb who can actually sense the pass rush I am not sure this team would even have a single win. If JC or Grossman were back there I highly doubt the Skins would have a + turnover ratio.

[cal_junior]

If JC or Grossman were back there I highly doubt the Skins would have a + turnover ratio.

But I'm not comparing McNabb to Jason Campbell or Sexy Rexy. I'm comparing him to himself.

I agree that he's helped in a lot of ways. But by his owns standards of performance McNabb has not been up to par this year. We didn't give up a high drat pick so he wouldn't fumble, we did it so he would lead the team on scoring drives even the absence of a top-shelf supporting cast.

I like McNabb. A lot. So I'm hoping this has been a combination of injuries, adjusting to a new system and mediocre protection. I'm thinking that if at least two of those factors improve over the next two weeks we can salvage a run at the wild card.

[MONK_in_HOF]

That was until team Shanahan decided to inexplicably pull McNabb and then pour gasoline on the situation with even worse excuses/lies for benching McNabb.

Only one Shanahan was telling fishy stories. Just saying . . .

For the record I don't blame Kyle for the lies/cover up. I think all of the blame for exacerbating the situation lies in Mike's lap. Still if Kyle had any influence on the horrendous decision to play Grossman over McNabb, as has be widely suggested, then he is at fault too for creating the situation. Just sayin.

[justinskins]

We all know what the problems are with this team (interior O-Line; WRs; McNabb's inconsistency/inaccuracy; too little QB pressure from the front 7 on D; iffy secondary).

The question is: how will the Skins do in the second half of the season? Let's look at the schedule and make some predictions:

Week 10: PHI - W - We did it once, we can do it again.
Week 11: @ TEN - L - They will outplay us physically & at the skill positions.
Week 12: MIN - W - Hard to call, but I see us coming out on top
Week 13: @ NY - L - We still are outclassed by the best team in the division.
Week 14: TB - W - Once again hard to call, but I think we win at home.
Week 15: @ DAL - W - Should be easy now.
Week 16: @ JAC - L - AFC South has been giving us fits all year.
Week 17: NY - W - New York will start their backups in this game.

Before the season I thought we would go 7-9. Now I can see us going 9-7. The second-half schedule doesn't look nearly as scary given the way Minnesota and Dallas have fallen apart. Tampa and Jacksonville are now difficult games, although I think we will win one of them.

Will 9-7 get us into the playoffs? In this year's NFC, it very well might. It helps that we hold tiebreakers over Green Bay and Chicago. If we do in fact beat Philly again, that will help our chances a lot. I see NY running away with the division, so we'd have to come in as a wildcard. Are we good enough to win on the road? Yes, but probably not against Atlanta or the Giants. Since we would likely have to face one of them if we advance to the divisional round, I can't see us making it to the conference championship. Obviously, I'm getting ahead of myself. Just making the playoffs would be a huge accomplishment for this team. I think we can do it!

[cal_junior]

Week 10: PHI - W - We did it once, we can do it again.
Week 11: @ TEN - L - They will outplay us physically & at the skill positions.
Week 12: MIN - W - Hard to call, but I see us coming out on top
Week 13: @ NY - L - We still are outclassed by the best team in the division.
Week 14: TB - W - Once again hard to call, but I think we win at home.
Week 15: @ DAL - W - Should be easy now.
Week 16: @ JAC - L - AFC South has been giving us fits all year.
Week 17: NY - W - New York will start their backups in this game.

Seems like a fair assessment. It really appears the whole season could come down to the Philly and Tampa Bay games

[redskinz#1fan]

Just wanted a general "state of the Redskins" now and moving forward thread to talk about anything and everything that has happened and how it affects our beloved team moving forward.

Personally, I think things are going downhill fast. We had plenty of holes going into the season and found more along the way but the team has played surprisingly well as a team. But now, in a moment of sheer stupidity, the coach went and screwed with the sacred cow and all Hell was unleashed. There definitely seems to be division in the locker room and I think the only thing the team is unified in is questioning why the coach yanked his franchise QB in the most crucial of times. Everyone on the team except for Rex (Frat boy) Grossman, anyways.

That said, I sense a serious arse kicking coming to us on Monday night in a couple weeks. I sure hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing the signs of a season about to go belly up in grand fashion.

Why are we about to go belly up? Did I miss something? Yeah the coaching staff made a bone head move and pulled McNabb at a bad time, but in no way will this make our season spiral out of control. We have some holes, there's no question there. But we also have some guys playing really good football right now, and I don't see this team turning its back on possibly making it to the post season. Were guys pissed off or confused about McNabb's bogus benching...probably, and rightfully so...but to me that means that they pull closer together not further apart. McNabb will play better in the 2nd half of the season, and so will the rest of the team. I actually look for the team to be better in the 2nd half of the season than in the 1st half.

I guess only time will tell, but my opinion is just the opposite of yours. But something we do agree on, is that we both have opinions! :)

[hail2skins]

Agreed. My point is that you take last year's team and add a SB-winning head coach, Pro Bowl QB, top-5 draft pick at LT, Pro Bowl RT and bump up the quality of both coordinators and that's better than one or two games.
A defense learning a new scheme without the players to support it, an offense learning a new scheme without the line to support it. That Pro Bowl RT is injured and was injured when he signed him. I'll be happy with an 8-8 season but there is a lot of learning going on right now and that includes the coaches.

[cal_junior]

I'll be happy with an 8-8 season but there is a lot of learning going on right now and that includes the coaches.

My prediction pre-season was 7-9, an improvement of three games. Seemed realistic if only because of QB.

[Skins4life]

This bipolar team has us all confused. I still think we can win 5 more. Remember this team can hang tough with good teams but also lose to the worst.

Up until Sunday, I thought coaching would give us the needed help down the stretch but now have no clue what they are thinking. Forget the obvious Mcnabb call, but going for it on 4th and 10 with two timouts and two minute warning in your own territory was almost just as bad.

I really dont care if we can find a good WR to step up which no one has yet. Unless they run a 3 step route with this line, it wont matter.

We need to win at home. We need to get back in control of NFC east. Haynesworth needs to be in top shape and hopefully we can get our turnover defense going and Banks can continue to impress. Only time will tell.

[Skins7ny]

For the record I don't blame Kyle for the lies/cover up. I think all of the blame for exacerbating the situation lies in Mike's lap. Still if Kyle had any influence on the horrendous decision to play Grossman over McNabb, as has be widely suggested, then he is at fault too for creating the situation. Just sayin.I agree with you. I don't either-I think he tried to help. Defending McNabb's conditioning yesterday was huge.

The best solution to this whole controversy? Cut Grossman during the bye week. If we have to play him, our season is over anyway. And I am not quite sure why Kyle has such affection for him, anyway.

A defense learning a new scheme without the players to support it, an offense learning a new scheme without the line to support it. That Pro Bowl RT is injured and was injured when he signed him. I'll be happy with an 8-8 season but there is a lot of learning going on right now and that includes the coaches. Not to mention strength of schedule, which was brutal this year. I am very impressed that we finished 4-4 after the 1st-half schedule we have. I attribute a lot of that to the confident attitude instilled by both Shanhan and McNabb.

This bipolar team has us all confused. I still think we can win 5 more. Remember this team can hang tough with good teams but also lose to the worst.

Up until Sunday, I thought coaching would give us the needed help down the stretch but now have no clue what they are thinking. Forget the obvious Mcnabb call, but going for it on 4th and 10 with two timouts and two minute warning in your own territory was almost just as bad.

I really dont care if we can find a good WR to step up which no one has yet. Unless they run a 3 step route with this line, it wont matter.

We need to win at home. We need to get back in control of NFC east. Haynesworth needs to be in top shape and hopefully we can get our turnover defense going and Banks can continue to impress. Only time will tell. I could see us winning every one of the rest of our games except against Tennessee. And I can see us losing the rest of our games except against Dallas. We are a team dependent on turnovers, long passes and catching breaks. Talent-wise, we just are not there.

[skinsfan36]

the team has surprised me in how they are making strides but still have big holes. the interior oline is awful and theres no wrs after . the biggest games the rest of the year are the giants,eagles,bucs games.well the cowboys too but they are out of the playoff race. beating the eagles,and bucs wil give us the tiebreaker over both in any wild card scenarios.if we put together enpugh wins and somehow beat the giants atleast once we may be ab;e tp steal the division. i see this team at this point at 9-7 or 8-8.we just need to keep improving

[jaylen]

we're at that tipping point. We're frazzled and a teetering on falling completely apart. Had Mcnabb gate not kicked off I'd still feel this way but knowing mcnabb gate is in effect its a very here we go again feeling coming on.

O line a mess -check
injuries-check
qb controversy-check
questioning of the coach by players-check
tough schedule ahead-check

[shally]

I agree with you. I don't either-I think he tried to help. Defending McNabb's conditioning yesterday was huge.

The best solution to this whole controversy? Cut Grossman during the bye week. If we have to play him, our season is over anyway. And I am not quite sure why Kyle has such affection for him, anyway.

Not to mention strength of schedule, which was brutal this year. I am very impressed that we finished 4-4 after the 1st-half schedule we have. I attribute a lot of that to the confident attitude instilled by both Shanhan and McNabb.

I could see us winning every one of the rest of our games except against Tennessee. And I can see us losing the rest of our games except against Dallas. We are a team dependent on turnovers, long passes and catching breaks. Talent-wise, we just are not there.

i fail to see the logic in cutting Grossman ? sure, we dont WANT to see him play, but if McNabb was injured would you rather see Beck ? J Russell ??? Losman ??? i cant see that any of those guys gives us a better chance of winning than Grossman

Cut him to placate McNabb ? who says DM wants Grossman gone ? and if McNabb doesnt play better, it doesnt matter who the backup is, he wont be offerred a contract extension. the season is in McNabb's hands. all he needs to do to defuse the situation is play better

[WarEagle]

State of the Redskins at the bye? Full of distracting drama, I'd say. Seems to be the status quo for us the past several seasons. I give Shanny lots of leeway, but the way he handled McNabbGate was pretty awful.

[MadDog97]

i fail to see the logic in cutting Grossman ? sure, we dont WANT to see him play, but if McNabb was injured would you rather see Beck ? J Russell ??? Losman ??? i cant see that any of those guys gives us a better chance of winning than Grossman

Cut him to placate McNabb ? who says DM wants Grossman gone ? and if McNabb doesnt play better, it doesnt matter who the backup is, he wont be offerred a contract extension. the season is in McNabb's hands. all he needs to do to defuse the situation is play better

I agree that cutting Grossman has no benefit. McNabb needs to heal his wounds and play better. I see no reason to alter the QB situation with what is available.

The state of the Skins at the bye is not all bad. Banks gives us a legitimate return threat. Torrain is hurt but with Portis returning they could be a pretty good tandem. Armstrong shows potential and could be the other receiver we need. Haynesworth's situation is better and Landry has emerged as a beast. We can still finish 9-7 and make the playoffs.

It is not all bad. Now is not the time for a panic maneuver.

:sun:

[RoanokeSkin]

I still believe that football games are won and lost on the lines. So when I look at our current state:

The offensive line is the worst in the league, if not the history of the league.

The defensive line is old and generates no pressure on the quarterback.

I think the state of the team is pretty sad.

You would think that the team that showed the league back in 1991 that you can make ANY quarterback a superstar if you can protect him well enough, would have recognized our line issues some time ago.

[Skins7ny]

i fail to see the logic in cutting Grossman ? sure, we dont WANT to see him play, but if McNabb was injured would you rather see Beck ? J Russell ??? Losman ??? i cant see that any of those guys gives us a better chance of winning than Grossman

Cut him to placate McNabb ? who says DM wants Grossman gone ? and if McNabb doesnt play better, it doesnt matter who the backup is, he wont be offerred a contract extension. the season is in McNabb's hands. all he needs to do to defuse the situation is play better
I am not really serious about this, and apparently McNabb and Grossman are buddies. But can any of us really say that we insist on seeing Grossman in their over Beck? At least with Beck, there is a chance he will get the ball out and not be a turnover machine. We know what we are getting wtih Rex, and frankly, it is not much.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I still believe that football games are won and lost on the lines. So when I look at our current state:

The offensive line is the worst in the league, if not the history of the league.

The defensive line is old and generates no pressure on the quarterback.

I think the state of the team is pretty sad.

You would think that the team that showed the league back in 1991 that you can make ANY quarterback a superstar if you can protect him well enough, would have recognized our line issues some time ago.

You think this is the worst offensive line ever? Last year's line was far worse.

[CNYSkinFan]

I think we are what our record says we are, an average team. We have potential but also pretty fatal flaws on the OL and a new defense that seems to be feast or famine. It creates turnovers but also allows the opponents to drive seemingly at will.

We have a coach who is determined to make things go his way and a vet QB who only has a few years back who might not be the right fit for the system.

I still believe Danny is playing for the lockout, that is why McnAbbs extension was pushed to after the season and why we did not go after Moss or any high priced long term FA this year. If no lo0ckout we will have a spending binge to give us a shot at the SB the next two years, if there is a lockout they use that as an excuse to dump high priced vets and start over.

[silverspring]

Been out for a week, catching up now....WTF is going on?

Some big questions about how shanny is handling players. I have been questioning his handling of the haynesworth situation for a long time and this just opens up a can of worms.

Benching McNabb was idiotic. Shanny doesn't seem to value what he gave for mcnabb. We have no extension and now he is treating his big acquisition poorly. This looks like either McNabb won't sign or Shanny won't sign him. Either way we end up throwing away 2 top picks. Poorly managed. We should have had him under an extension and then we could at least trade him to get something back. I never supported the mcnabb trade, but if you do it then you have to secure it and you have to support your qb.

The lack of consistency with shanny shocks me. He seems to hate lazy non team players like Haynesworth. He then treats McNabb with a similar line. So why on earth does he even consider bringing a player like Jamarcus in? And then why didn't we chase after Moss?

Shanny just stole all morale from this team. I haven't read all the dirty details yet, but right now I am simply shocked and I don't understand the logic behind any of this.

[GibbsFan]

Been out for a week, catching up now....WTF is going on?

Some big questions about how shanny is handling players. I have been questioning his handling of the haynesworth situation for a long time and this just opens up a can of worms.

Benching McNabb was idiotic. Shanny doesn't seem to value what he gave for mcnabb. We have no extension and now he is treating his big acquisition poorly. This looks like either McNabb won't sign or Shanny won't sign him. Either way we end up throwing away 2 top picks. Poorly managed. We should have had him under an extension and then we could at least trade him to get something back. I never supported the mcnabb trade, but if you do it then you have to secure it and you have to support your qb.

The lack of consistency with shanny shocks me. He seems to hate lazy non team players like Haynesworth. He then treats McNabb with a similar line. So why on earth does he even consider bringing a player like Jamarcus in? And then why didn't we chase after Moss?

Shanny just stole all morale from this team. I haven't read all the dirty details yet, but right now I am simply shocked and I don't understand the logic behind any of this.

You are right, why not sign Moss? He is a legit redzone and deep threat, that basically is the opposite of what we have at WR now. Plus, Santana could have moved inside to the slot, IMO this could have been a huge help to our OL and pass protection troubles. We would have exposed the blitzes more with a big and little Moss.

I'm starting think Shanny is a totalitarian egomaniac. When we signed DMC it was a clear sign that we are gonna try and win now instead of a rebuilding program through the draft (which both lines have sorely needed for ages).

Shanny seems to think he can coach most anybody up into the player he wants. But as Joe Gibbs always said "You win with people." Shanny seems to have a real weakness in this area. His handling of Fat Albert should have been ended much sooner. Dock should be playing somewhere when the line looks this bad. Now we have McNabbgate, and Shanny should know better than what has transpired. The only explanation I can come up with is his ego. The Philly game is once again the critical game. They surprised me and won before. I hope they do once again, or this season could get really ugly fast.

I think every one agrees that Trent is turning out to be a good pick. If we had used that 2nd rounder on a solid guard, and retained the services of Jason Campbell where would we be? JC had been through years of new systems and terminology. Also, he would have probably been much more receptive to fundamental changes in his game as compared to solid old pro like DMC. Interestingly, Shanny chose to make both trades, and one would think he could have a much influence on the QB position as compared to any other position on the roster.

I'm not knocking Donovan (he's a proven winner), he has leadership skills that JC just did'nt have. I'm just making the point that we might not be that much different record wise, but whole lot farther ahead in the program building direction. Its a scenario you can't prove either way. But we still need an Oline as bad as last years team did. That was what i was hoping Shanny would bring, instead of a 3-4, and some smart azz eyebrows. You can tell he lying just by the brows up and down LOL.

[shally]

I still believe that football games are won and lost on the lines. So when I look at our current state:

The offensive line is the worst in the league, if not the history of the league.

The defensive line is old and generates no pressure on the quarterback.

I think the state of the team is pretty sad.

You would think that the team that showed the league back in 1991 that you can make ANY quarterback a superstar if you can protect him well enough, would have recognized our line issues some time ago.


Chicago Bears O line is clearly worse, and the Cowboys might not be far behind. Philly's is not so hot for spending significant number of draft picks on it.

D line is not old as much as mis-used in scheme. guys like Carter/Haynesworth/golston/ Orakpo would be better in 4/3

[MadDog97]

Chicago Bears O line is clearly worse, and the Cowboys might not be far behind. Philly's is not so hot for spending significant number of draft picks on it.

D line is not old as much as mis-used in scheme. guys like Carter/Haynesworth/golston/ Orakpo would be better in 4/3

Our offense line needs 3 good years of drafting. Williams was the key for year 1, so I look to see more draft picks used for the O line. The line needs to be built, not traded for in hopes of a miracle. At QB, I am looking at still keeping McNabb because the alternatives are not impressive. Long term, look toward drafting a QB. The team needs Donnovan's leadership despite his performance.

I also agree about misuse of talent, but Orakpo and Alexander are doing fine and are adjusting. Haynesworth and the coaches are adjusting. Landry is now a beast, though I miss the ball hawking of Horton. Statistically, the D is lousy, but turnovers are up and so are wins. I will take wins over stats.

Now the bright side of things. Torrain is a punishing runner who needs a better o line. I love Banks because he give us a legitimate threat on returns. Alexander and Landry are performing well on D.

The pundits say we won't make the playoffs but Philly is the key. If we win or keep it close, then we have a good shot. The pundits say only 7 games, but we have Dallas, Jacksonville, Vikings, and the last game with the Giants. I think we can win the last one because the Giants will have clinched and will be more worried about injuries. The Giants though are my biggest fear in the 2nd half. There strength is the D line. Our weakness is the O line. Nuff said.

:sun:

[X-Factor13]

I am honestly really positive right now. Think about it... we won four games last year and we've already matched that. The games are exciting to watch once again and we are relevant at least for now. We also had the pleasure of kick starting Dallas' fall from media darlings to the garbage can of the league. There are a lot of players that have made this team better, and I'm happy that we've played well enough to warrant higher expectations. Maybe next season I'll be a little more demanding. But I'd like to include a list of players I think we can build around:

Armstrong, Mcintosh, Fletcher, Landry, T Williams, J Brown, Orakpo, D Hall, Mcnabb, Cooley, Moss, Davis, L Alexander, Torain, portis

It's not a great list, but what I'm getting at is a lot of players are having good seasons for us. Mcnabb is having one of the worst of his career and we're still in contention - that speaks volumes. I think once Portis returns we'll be a little more dangerous offensively as well. We need help at S, the lines, WR, and CB. But I'm happy that we also discovered some talent this year. Shanny is great at doing that.

Excuse my optimism, but there is a lot to be thankful for.

[X-Factor13]

Our offense line needs 3 good years of drafting. Williams was the key for year 1, so I look to see more draft picks used for the O line. The line needs to be built, not traded for in hopes of a miracle. At QB, I am looking at still keeping McNabb because the alternatives are not impressive. Long term, look toward drafting a QB. The team needs Donnovan's leadership despite his performance.

I also agree about misuse of talent, but Orakpo and Alexander are doing fine and are adjusting. Haynesworth and the coaches are adjusting. Landry is now a beast, though I miss the ball hawking of Horton. Statistically, the D is lousy, but turnovers are up and so are wins. I will take wins over stats.

Now the bright side of things. Torrain is a punishing runner who needs a better o line. I love Banks because he give us a legitimate threat on returns. Alexander and Landry are performing well on D.

The pundits say we won't make the playoffs but Philly is the key. If we win or keep it close, then we have a good shot. The pundits say only 7 games, but we have Dallas, Jacksonville, Vikings, and the last game with the Giants. I think we can win the last one because the Giants will have clinched and will be more worried about injuries. The Giants though are my biggest fear in the 2nd half. There strength is the D line. Our weakness is the O line. Nuff said.

:sun:


I dunno if we need three years of drafting for our lines to be good. Another player beside haynesworth would work wonders, and if we draft two good offensive linemen we will see dramatic improvement. I expect that to be the focus of this offseason, and for us to be a waayy better team come this time next year.

[silverspring]

I dunno if we need three years of drafting for our lines to be good. Another player beside haynesworth would work wonders, and if we draft two good offensive linemen we will see dramatic improvement. I expect that to be the focus of this offseason, and for us to be a waayy better team come this time next year.

Gonna be tough to have a good draft with no draft picks.

[skinsfan36]

Gonna be tough to have a good draft with no draft picks.

hey we have 6 next yr lol

[Skins7ny]

hey we have 6 next yr lol
Actually, we have 7. They are our own choices in rounds 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7.
Additionally, we get a choice b/w rounds 5 and 7 (it will probably be a 5) from the Saints as part of the Jammal Brown trade and we get a choice from the Colts (which round has not been announced, so probably a 7) for Justin Tryon. Last year, we had 6 choices, but they were all heavily weighter towards the bottom of the draft (rounds 1, 4, 6, 7, 7 and 7). Next year will probably be 1, 2, 5, 5, 6, 7 and 7.
I am honestly really positive right now. Think about it... we won four games last year and we've already matched that. The games are exciting to watch once again and we are relevant at least for now. We also had the pleasure of kick starting Dallas' fall from media darlings to the garbage can of the league. There are a lot of players that have made this team better, and I'm happy that we've played well enough to warrant higher expectations. Maybe next season I'll be a little more demanding. But I'd like to include a list of players I think we can build around:

Armstrong, Mcintosh, Fletcher, Landry, T Williams, J Brown, Orakpo, D Hall, Mcnabb, Cooley, Moss, Davis, L Alexander, Torain, portisIt's not a great list, but what I'm getting at is a lot of players are having good seasons for us. Mcnabb is having one of the worst of his career and we're still in contention - that speaks volumes. I think once Portis returns we'll be a little more dangerous offensively as well. We need help at S, the lines, WR, and CB. But I'm happy that we also discovered some talent this year. Shanny is great at doing that.

Excuse my optimism, but there is a lot to be thankful for.
McIntosh will be a free agent and wants a big-money contract. Fletcher is near retirement age and could go any time. Jammal Brown has not proven himself to be a player worth keeping long-term. McNabb probably will not be back, Davis has been invisible this year. Alexander is not a starting 3-4 OLB. Torian is too inconsistent and injury-prone to be relied upon as a starter, and Portis will not be back because he is done as a RB in the NFL. ]

If we were to try to trade players (hypothetically) to get more draft picks, here is the total of players we have who would draw interest around the league:

OT Trent Williams
LB Brian Orakpo
SS Laron Landry

That's it. We would not get more than a 6th- or 7th-rounder for anyone on our roster (other than McNabb and Haynesworth). Unless someone were stupid enough to pay a 2nd-rounder for DHall, which the Raiders did 2 years ago, only to cut him 8 games in.

The reality is, we have very FEW building blocks on this team, although we do have some nice complementary players. Shanahan had all year last year to look at our tape-if he felt that this was a playoff-caliber roster, he is an even poorer judge of talent than his naysayers in Denver said he was.

This team needs a 2-3 year infusion of talent, with excellent drafting, to be where we want it to be. Shanahan is a good enough coach that he can get them to overacheive and compete for a playoff spot earlier than the team's talent level would otherwise dictate, maybe as soon as next year if we have a really good off-season. But Shanahan the GM may sabotage Shanahan the coach the same way he did in Denver and the same way Gibbs the team President sabotaged Gibbs the Head Coach with terrible drafting personnel decisions. Shanahan's first draft with us doesn't exactly bode well so far (but I think it will long-term: Riley is a potential excellent replacement for McIntosh if we don't re-sign him, and the 3 7th-rounders are still around and will eventually contribue, I think).

[Dolla Bill]

Is it me, or anyone else disappointed that we haven't heard anything about roster moves regarding the OL yet this week? I wish we could hear something along the lines of Cook or Capers being called up.

[Lavar703]

Actually, we have 7. They are our own choices in rounds 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7.
Additionally, we get a choice b/w rounds 5 and 7 (it will probably be a 5) from the Saints as part of the Jammal Brown trade and we get a choice from the Colts (which round has not been announced, so probably a 7) for Justin Tryon. Last year, we had 6 choices, but they were all heavily weighter towards the bottom of the draft (rounds 1, 4, 6, 7, 7 and 7). Next year will probably be 1, 2, 5, 5, 6, 7 and 7.

McIntosh will be a free agent and wants a big-money contract. Fletcher is near retirement age and could go any time. Jammal Brown has not proven himself to be a player worth keeping long-term. McNabb probably will not be back, Davis has been invisible this year. Alexander is not a starting 3-4 OLB. Torian is too inconsistent and injury-prone to be relied upon as a starter, and Portis will not be back because he is done as a RB in the NFL. ]

If we were to try to trade players (hypothetically) to get more draft picks, here is the total of players we have who would draw interest around the league:

OT Trent Williams
LB Brian Orakpo
SS Laron Landry

That's it. We would not get more than a 6th- or 7th-rounder for anyone on our roster (other than McNabb and Haynesworth). Unless someone were stupid enough to pay a 2nd-rounder for DHall, which the Raiders did 2 years ago, only to cut him 8 games in.

The reality is, we have very FEW building blocks on this team, although we do have some nice complementary players. Shanahan had all year last year to look at our tape-if he felt that this was a playoff-caliber roster, he is an even poorer judge of talent than his naysayers in Denver said he was.

This team needs a 2-3 year infusion of talent, with excellent drafting, to be where we want it to be. Shanahan is a good enough coach that he can get them to overacheive and compete for a playoff spot earlier than the team's talent level would otherwise dictate, maybe as soon as next year if we have a really good off-season. But Shanahan the GM may sabotage Shanahan the coach the same way he did in Denver and the same way Gibbs the team President sabotaged Gibbs the Head Coach with terrible drafting personnel decisions. Shanahan's first draft with us doesn't exactly bode well so far (but I think it will long-term: Riley is a potential excellent replacement for McIntosh if we don't re-sign him, and the 3 7th-rounders are still around and will eventually contribue, I think).

While his drafts started very poor he started to get much better at it towards the end of his tenure in Denver. Trent Williams was considered by many to be the 4th to 5th best option at tackle in the draft and was considered by many experts to be a late 1st round to 2nd round prospect, Shanahan took him with the 4th pick in the draft in what was determined to be a major reach at the time, he's been far and away the best rookie OL in the NFL. You must include guys like Keiland Williams and Brandon Banks as major rookie pick ups and finding Anthony Armstrong was excellent. This team is still going through an overhaul but I think Shanahan will find a way to get a few more picks in the draft and continue building and shaping the roster to his liking.

[TrueOracle]

Is it me, or anyone else disappointed that we haven't heard anything about roster moves regarding the OL yet this week? I wish we could hear something along the lines of Cook or Capers being called up.

To do that would clearly put the responsibility for this teams lack of success against inferior opponents directly on Shanny and lil'Tardo's (mini-Me) heads. Benching of DMC has diverted REAL conversations about why we REALLY suck on the field. We're in trouble boys & girls.

[Emmanouel8]

Agreed. My point is that you take last year's team and add a SB-winning head coach, Pro Bowl QB, top-5 draft pick at LT, Pro Bowl RT and bump up the quality of both coordinators and that's better than one or two games.

I just think to say: "Well we've got 5-11 talent and we're on pace for 8-8, so thing are going well" is a little too optimistic.

If McNabb plays slightly above-average this season we're 6-2 right now. At least.

I think that's the story of this season to this point. We were expected to be going through growing pains with the O line, expected to have growing pains with the defense adjusting to the 3-4, and expected to have growing pains at QB, since its a new system and team for McNabb. But I think MvNabbs struggles are both his fundamentals and adjusting to the new system. If he simply corrects some of his fundamentals, probably more likely to happen than turning the O line around and the defense acclimating to the 3-4, we may possibly be a 6-2.

Long term I'm starting to think benching Mcnabb may have been best for us. Like mentioned earlier its a contract year for him and he has a lot to prove, so why does he seem so removed on the field? Is he looking to move in a year with someone else or what?

As far as this season going down to the tube because of this benching I totally disagree, and think thats week to week emotions creating a short sided view. As far as the game against philly we are coming off a buy and like the Lions we will be ready against them.

[Skins7ny]

Is it me, or anyone else disappointed that we haven't heard anything about roster moves regarding the OL yet this week? I wish we could hear something along the lines of Cook or Capers being called up.If they make a move it will be Saturday at 4pm.
Shanhan is not going to do anything before it is absolutely necessary, because he doesn't want to give the Iggles any time to prepare for any changes we might be making to our line-up.

I am not necessarily expecting any roster changes, but would not be surprised to see any of our 7th-rounders get the call from the practice squad this week.

While his drafts started very poor he started to get much better at it towards the end of his tenure in Denver. Trent Williams was considered by many to be the 4th to 5th best option at tackle in the draft and was considered by many experts to be a late 1st round to 2nd round prospect, Shanahan took him with the 4th pick in the draft in what was determined to be a major reach at the time, he's been far and away the best rookie OL in the NFL. You must include guys like Keiland Williams and Brandon Banks as major rookie pick ups and finding Anthony Armstrong was excellent. This team is still going through an overhaul but I think Shanahan will find a way to get a few more picks in the draft and continue building and shaping the roster to his liking. You are right, but didn't Mike Shanahan have somebody at the end in Denver helping him with his drafts? Does he have anybody like that here? When he was hired, there were strong rumors he was going to bring they guy and his son, who was also in personnel (I cannot remember their names), to DC as a package deal to help with personnel, because everyone acknowledges that Bruce Allen is more of an administrative type GM, not a personnel guy.

We need really, really good drafting and very spare, judicious use of the free agent market in order to re-build this team. This year makes it clear that Shanahan will be a lot better off building a team with players who start their careers as Redskins, so he can school them in his ways without having to worry about their baggage with other teams (like McNabb and Haynesworth).

[tribeinca]

We need really, really good drafting and very spare, judicious use of the free agent market in order to re-build this team. This year makes it clear that Shanahan will be a lot better off building a team with players who start their careers as Redskins, so he can school them in his ways without having to worry about their baggage with other teams (like McNabb and Haynesworth).

Absolutely agree. Bringing in one or two high price free agents did not work for us and will not work in the future for any teams that has deficiencies in many areas. The win now mentality may work if we can bring P. Manning and his whole o line over here.

[shally]

If they make a move it will be Saturday at 4pm.
Shanhan is not going to do anything before it is absolutely necessary, because he doesn't want to give the Iggles any time to prepare for any changes we might be making to our line-up.

I am not necessarily expecting any roster changes, but would not be surprised to see any of our 7th-rounders get the call from the practice squad this week.

You are right, but didn't Mike Shanahan have somebody at the end in Denver helping him with his drafts? Does he have anybody like that here? When he was hired, there were strong rumors he was going to bring they guy and his son, who was also in personnel (I cannot remember their names), to DC as a package deal to help with personnel, because everyone acknowledges that Bruce Allen is more of an administrative type GM, not a personnel guy.

We need really, really good drafting and very spare, judicious use of the free agent market in order to re-build this team. This year makes it clear that Shanahan will be a lot better off building a team with players who start their careers as Redskins, so he can school them in his ways without having to worry about their baggage with other teams (like McNabb and Haynesworth).


if he is bringing up a guy from the PS, he might as well wait until Saturday because they can practice with the team anyway...

i think we will make a couple of moves on Saturday

[Hr fan]

Just wanted a general "state of the Redskins" now and moving forward thread to talk about anything and everything that has happened and how it affects our beloved team moving forward.

Personally, I think things are going downhill fast. We had plenty of holes going into the season and found more along the way but the team has played surprisingly well as a team. But now, in a moment of sheer stupidity, the coach went and screwed with the sacred cow and all Hell was unleashed. There definitely seems to be division in the locker room and I think the only thing the team is unified in is questioning why the coach yanked his franchise QB in the most crucial of times. Everyone on the team except for Rex (Frat boy) Grossman, anyways.

That said, I sense a serious arse kicking coming to us on Monday night in a couple weeks. I sure hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing the signs of a season about to go belly up in grand fashion.

+1. And the destruction of the "team" will reach beyond this year.

[Skins7ny]

if he is bringing up a guy from the PS, he might as well wait until Saturday because they can practice with the team anyway...

i think we will make a couple of moves on Saturday
Good point! The RB on practice squad is also a good candidate, although they might wait until Banks comes back so they can keep Chad Simpson active to return kicks.
Absolutely agree. Bringing in one or two high price free agents did not work for us and will not work in the future for any teams that has deficiencies in many areas. The win now mentality may work if we can bring P. Manning and his whole o line over here.

In Denver, Shanahan was constantly signing high-priced free agents to fill holes he was unable to fill through the draft. Ironically, the position he threw the most FA money at was probably DT. He was constantly searching for a stud DT.

[Hr fan]

Just a thought - what if 30 year old Kyle got fed up with DMc and ordered Rex in (without warm-up) while daddy knew nothing of what was going on. How does Mike handle this? If he replaces Rex after the play maybe there is a correction, but Rex only needed 1 play to make the game totally beyond reach. Now Mike has a choice of hanging his son out to dry or DMc. And not being part of the decision he is very weak and slow in getting to any kind of answer of why it happened.

One thing has alreqdy surfaced. On the RedZone channel as the early games were approaching half-time the announcer said that the games were approaching the point where the cordiovascular endurance of players could be tested. Ouch!

[GenMgr]

Just a thought - what if 30 year old Kyle got fed up with DMc and ordered Rex in (without warm-up) while daddy knew nothing of what was going on. How does Mike handle this? If he replaces Rex after the play maybe there is a correction, but Rex only needed 1 play to make the game totally beyond reach. Now Mike has a choice of hanging his son out to dry or DMc. And not being part of the decision he is very weak and slow in getting to any kind of answer of why it happened.

One thing has alreqdy surfaced. On the RedZone channel as the early games were approaching half-time the announcer said that the games were approaching the point where the cordiovascular endurance of players could be tested. Ouch!

Both Mike and Kyle wanted to bench McNabb before the Eagles game as reported by FOX/ESPN, so the above scenario is highly unlikely and the aforementioned excuses were already planned as ways to divert McNabb's performance issues.

[CNYSkinFan]

Just a thought - what if 30 year old Kyle got fed up with DMc and ordered Rex in (without warm-up) while daddy knew nothing of what was going on. How does Mike handle this? If he replaces Rex after the play maybe there is a correction, but Rex only needed 1 play to make the game totally beyond reach. Now Mike has a choice of hanging his son out to dry or DMc. And not being part of the decision he is very weak and slow in getting to any kind of answer of why it happened.

One thing has alreqdy surfaced. On the RedZone channel as the early games were approaching half-time the announcer said that the games were approaching the point where the cordiovascular endurance of players could be tested. Ouch!
While I blame Kyle for the rex vs dmc situation, no way he goes over Dad's head to put him in. More likely he wore him down all week and when the interception happened Kyle went up to Dad and said "I am telling you Dad Rex can win this for us" and Dad gave in. The multiple changing excuses after the game shows he was covering up for his son. But no way Kyle does it withut Mike knowing it.

[cal_junior]

a few roster moves today:

S Chris Horton moved to the IR, S Anderson Russell elevated from the PS

S Sha'reff Rashad and WR Taurus Johnson both signed to PS

WR Ray Small was released

[CNYSkinFan]

not ray small!

[shally]

a few roster moves today:

S Chris Horton moved to the IR, S Anderson Russell elevated from the PS

S Sha'reff Rashad and WR Taurus Johnson both signed to PS

WR Ray Small was released

As the roster churns

Really want Austin called up

[cal_junior]

-Shanny saying today that McNabb's hammys are are a lot better.
-Won't know until Thursday about the availability of Torain or Portis
-He expects Banks to miss 2 or 3 weeks.

[shally]

-Shanny saying today that McNabb's hammys are are a lot better.
-Won't know until Thursday about the availability of Torain or Portis
-He expects Banks to miss 2 or 3 weeks.

Davis elevated to keep him from Carolina.. he might get some reps with Williams while Torain and CP rest another week ??

[Hr fan]

While I blame Kyle for the rex vs dmc situation, no way he goes over Dad's head to put him in. More likely he wore him down all week and when the interception happened Kyle went up to Dad and said "I am telling you Dad Rex can win this for us" and Dad gave in. The multiple changing excuses after the game shows he was covering up for his son. But no way Kyle does it withut Mike knowing it.

Not defending an admitedly far fetched musing, but did I miss RG warming up? He seemed to be as surprised as anyone, and if the replacement had a longer gestation period than 1 minute I really would have expected a warm-up. As it was the move surprised everyone in uiniform, including RG, who promptly showed a warm-up might have helped prepare him mentally.

[cal_junior]

who promptly showed a warm-up might have helped prepare him mentally.

I'm not sure Sexy warming up would have helped our offensive line block better. He didn't have a chance on that play.

[shally]

I'm not sure Sexy warming up would have helped our offensive line block better. He didn't have a chance on that play.

agree. blind side hit, with no chance to react..