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View Full Version : Kudos to SD

dukeuch
10-15-2003, 10:20 AM
It's a tired subject, but hard to ignore Stephen Davis' year so far. Even if the 'Skins might be better off with the cap space and trades it allowed, he certainly is not the used up shell or plodder many described here last spring: 1st in NFC yards per game, 3rd in yard per carry (leader Westbrook has only 38 carries) 9th longest run from scrimmage (longer than Trung or Ladell). All this for a team with a mediocre (at best) passing game.

I'd suggest he may have been able to fit into the "fun n gun" quite nicely given the chance.
Spence
10-15-2003, 10:25 AM
Stephen Davis can fit any system there is. The guy is a star running back. You don't get rid of stars because they don't fit your system. You find ways to make your system work with stars.

Losing Davis over money is one thing. I understand that. It happens and as good as Davis is, he is not irreplaceable. I just hope that's why we actually lost him. To lose him because Spurrier decided Davis does not fit his system would be idiotic.
Patrick
10-15-2003, 10:27 AM
Don't think he would of posted those numbers here, but I'm glad to see the BigCountry is doing well.
PennSkinsFan
10-15-2003, 10:38 AM
I dont think any of us question Stephen Davis' ability, we question whether the $12 cap hit would hurt the team in its entirety.
Skinzaholic
10-15-2003, 10:47 AM
According to Stephen Davis, Spurrier just about caused him to quit football entirely. Obviously the reationship got off ont he wrong foot... probably due to Spurrier and his cocky attitude in the beginning. I am certain he has thought twice about it occassionally.

SD claims he will not even go near Spurrier when we play them in a few weeks. I sure hope that doesn't fuel a better performance out of Big Country.
dukeuch
10-15-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
I dont think any of us question Stephen Davis' ability, we question whether the $12 cap hit would hurt the team in its entirety.

The only reason I even bothered starting this thread was that I seemed to recall a lot of posts claiming that besides the cap issue, Davis really was not that good any more, RBs over 30 can't hack it, etc.

The point of the $12 mil cap is legit, but it may have been worth it to retain him. I can see both sides to that arguement. Oh well, what's done is done.
PennSkinsFan
10-15-2003, 11:27 AM
There are some that claim that Davis is not that good, but they are simply fooling themselves. The $12 mil cap hit IMO, would have been stupid. We would not have netted Coles, probably not Thomas, and probably nor Hall. Same goes for Champ. Decisions need to be made. When you are paying someone $12 millinion in total cap money in one season, it does not take rocket science to figure that you will short changed elsewhere. The cap is not that large to be able to sustain $12 mil to one player and be effective at all other positions. I think the main problem with the cap hit of Davis was, before this off-season, we just had too many holes to fill. If we were better settled, then maybe.
Patrick
10-15-2003, 11:38 AM
You got that right PSF. AND in the next three years we are looking a two (possible four) guys that will be demanding 12 mil +. NO team can afford that and stay a contender.
hail2skins
10-15-2003, 12:24 PM
Uhhh, there could have been a renegotiation of the contract. Don't forget that.
Spence
10-15-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by hail2skins
Uhhh, there could have been a renegotiation of the contract. Don't forget that. That's a great point and why I wrote that I hope Davis left over money [negotiations failed] and not because of some stupid system argument. I think it was the system argument, though, and that Davis would not have returned if he received any fair offers from other teams. It makes me sick just thinking about it.
PennSkinsFan
10-15-2003, 01:31 PM
Umm, if i remember correctly, Davis was the ONE that SAID no to renegotiation.
Spence
10-15-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Umm, if i remember correctly, Davis was the ONE that SAID no to renegotiation. That would not surprise me, Mark. I think he knew he wasn't wanted and he agreed to part ways. Let's face it, he's better off now.
TexSkin
10-15-2003, 01:48 PM
Davis is having a good year but remember guys he has not always been the healthy. I cant remember a season when he did not have an injury. He is also 29 if I am not mistaken. He is great but breaking the bank on a 29 year old back with health issues probably is not wise. You will look great at first but a few years from now it will look like a bad decision.
Skinzaholic
10-15-2003, 02:28 PM
I think Mark is correct... I remember Davis saying NO flat out. The BIG question is was it due to money or the system? I lean toward curtain #2.
Keino
10-15-2003, 03:15 PM
Bottomline for me is this: Spurrier misused him and Davis could not trust him to not repeat the performance. I don't think we could've absorbed a 12 million cap hit and improve our team the way we did, but dammit Davis is a stud RB. I've said this before....Great Coaches adapt their system to the players they have. Spurrier FAILED in that regard last year, hopefully he has learned his lesson.
PennSkinsFan
10-15-2003, 03:45 PM
Well and it woudl not be surprising now that we know his feelings toward Spurrier. They did not click, they did not get along most likely, they differed in opinion on what the role of the running game should be, period. Why would he want to come back into that situation.

That is exactly why at $12 mil cap hit, it was too high of a price to pay for a player that was not getting along with the coach you just signed for 5 years at $25 mil.
Spence
10-15-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Keino
Bottomline for me is this: Spurrier misused him and Davis could not trust him to not repeat the performance. I don't think we could've absorbed a 12 million cap hit and improve our team the way we did, but dammit Davis is a stud RB. I've said this before....Great Coaches adapt their system to the players they have. Spurrier FAILED in that regard last year, hopefully he has learned his lesson. I completely agree with that. One other point: Stephen Davis is a good, good blocker. He spent most of 1998 at fullback and it turned him into a guy who can really handle linebackers. We miss more than just Stephen's running. I'm pretty sure Patrick Ramsey wouldn't have as many bruises if Stephen Davis had been back there instead of Canidate or Betts.
dukeuch
10-15-2003, 04:24 PM
Concerning renegotiation, I seem to recall that it was sort of clear that he was not wanted, and would only be signed if he renegotiated to WAY below his market value. Spurrier just did not like him for some reason. As far as injuries, I thought last year was the first that he missed any substantial time?

Anyway, glad to see he's still got it and thriving elsewhere.
Hailyeah
10-15-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by dukeuch
Concerning renegotiation, I seem to recall that it was sort of clear that he was not wanted, and would only be signed if he renegotiated to WAY below his market value.

This is correct. The writing was on the wall for Stephen by at least November of 2002. He was clearly not wanted. I don't even remember any feeble attempts to resign him. They flat out let him go. He signed a mediocre deal in Carolina. We'd be nuts to think he wouldn't have gladly renegotiated in DC for that if he would have been appreciated. I really miss Stephen at this point. Betts has not yet stepped up as I thought although there's still plenty of time.

Kenny, any thoughts here? :confused:
SkinsCT
10-15-2003, 05:32 PM
Davis is a star running back, and would succeed anywhere he played. However, getting the ball 25-30 times a game has helped place him in the national spotlight more than say, playing for a team like Houston or Arizona, both of whom were going after him.
rskinsfan10
10-15-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Hailyeah
This is correct. The writing was on the wall for Stephen by at least November of 2002. He was clearly not wanted. I don't even remember any feeble attempts to resign him. They flat out let him go. He signed a mediocre deal in Carolina. We'd be nuts to think he wouldn't have gladly renegotiated in DC for that if he would have been appreciated. I really miss Stephen at this point. Betts has not yet stepped up as I thought although there's still plenty of time.

Kenny, any thoughts here? :confused:

You summed it up perfectly.
hail2skins
10-15-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Hailyeah
This is correct. The writing was on the wall for Stephen by at least November of 2002. He was clearly not wanted. I don't even remember any feeble attempts to resign him. They flat out let him go. He signed a mediocre deal in Carolina. We'd be nuts to think he wouldn't have gladly renegotiated in DC for that if he would have been appreciated. I really miss Stephen at this point. Betts has not yet stepped up as I thought although there's still plenty of time.

Kenny, any thoughts here? :confused:

You hit the nail on the head. He never had a chance despite what some may say or think. He used to catch passes out of the backfield for Norval and Spence already mentioned he playing in the FB position before becoming the TB. Do we miss him, yes we do.
dukeuch
10-16-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Hailyeah
He signed a mediocre deal in Carolina. We'd be nuts to think he wouldn't have gladly renegotiated in DC for that if he would have been appreciated.

I'm a glutton for punishment, what is his deal at Carolina?