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akhhorus
01-29-2011, 03:42 PM
I'll have some more on this on the blog, but just for Senior bowl discussion:

Jake Locker SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKS.


discuss.

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 03:44 PM
I'll have some more on this on the blog, but just for Senior bowl discussion:

Jake Locker SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKS.


discuss.

Sure didn't take long for him to turn the ball over either huh?

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 03:45 PM
Sure didn't take long for him to turn the ball over either huh?

Or miss a wide open WR. Twice.

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 03:55 PM
I'll have some more on this on the blog, but just for Senior bowl discussion:

Jake Locker SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKS.


discuss.

You and I don't agree on much, but we damn well do on this. McElroy looks better than Locker.

tyrone_rush_fan
01-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Early standouts- RB Derrick Locke and WR Leonard Hankerson

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 03:57 PM
Early standouts- RB Derrick Locke and WR Leonard Hankerson

Cosign. Locke looks like a young Portis. Hankerson might jump into the first today.

Mcelroy is looking sharp.

EDIT: that INT didn't look like his fault.

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Any thoughts on Christian Ponder?

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 04:00 PM
McElroy threw into double coverage, but he took the chance knowing he had the offsides. I'm not too bothered by that. I'd be more concerend about his dad working for the Cowboys. :)

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 04:05 PM
Early standouts- RB Derrick Locke and WR Leonard Hankerson

Yeah Hankerson has been drawing a lot of praise all week. I like his size...not to mention the fact that he set Miami's single season reception record this year with 72....Michael Irvin didn't even get that many....

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:06 PM
That south Oline is destroying the north. Jordan and Kerrigan have been mia due to them.

brittania1
01-29-2011, 04:09 PM
Yeah Hankerson has been drawing a lot of praise all week. I like his size...not to mention the fact that he set Miami's single season reception record this year with 72....Michael Irvin didn't even get that many....

And add to that the quality of miami's qb's the past couple of years

brittania1
01-29-2011, 04:10 PM
That south Oline is destroying the north. Jordan and Kerrigan have been mia due to them.

Even Luke Stocker was manhandling Jordan

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:13 PM
Even Luke Stocker was manhandling Jordan

Jordan needs to bulk up and play inside. Kerrigan is too slow and plays too high.

Stanzi with a nice play.

JasonCampbell
01-29-2011, 04:16 PM
Von Miller isn't gonna be there at 10 :(

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 04:16 PM
And add to that the quality of miami's qb's the past couple of years

Yeah great point! This guy makes it happen....

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 04:26 PM
So far I'm liking Dalton's passes the most. I haven't seen any ducks from him. He zips it on out patterns. He needs to work on sliding though...that was horrible. LOL.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:28 PM
I'll have some more on this on the blog, but just for Senior bowl discussion:

Jake Locker SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKS.


discuss.

Along with every other QB besides Ponder in this game.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:29 PM
So far I'm liking Dalton's passes the most. I haven't seen any ducks from him. He zips it on out patterns. He needs to work on sliding though...that was horrible. LOL.

And he has absolutely no arm strength. Hankerson is wide open and he way underthrows it.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:32 PM
Or miss a wide open WR. Twice.

Yet he throws a beautiful pass to Titus Young in traffic and Young drops it. The blocking for the North QB's has been pathetic and every QB has looked terrible because of it.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:38 PM
Along with every other QB besides Ponder in this game.

Dalton looked fine. Locker missed wide open WRs/TEs.

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 04:40 PM
First two Ponder drives seemed solid for an all star game. Guy looks accurate

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:42 PM
Dalton looked fine. Locker missed wide open WRs/TEs.

Dalton looked fine? He missed on a wide open Hankerson running down the sideline and just about every other pass he threw. The only QB who has looked remotely like a QB is Ponder. Stanzi was god awful and Dalton just looked ordinary with his less-than stellar arm strength. Greg McElroy was horrendous. Locker hit Titus Young directly in the hands and he dropped it but other than that you are correct he did not look very good.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:45 PM
Dalton looked fine? He missed on a wide open Hankerson running down the sideline and just about every other pass he threw. The only QB who has looked remotely like a QB is Ponder. Stanzi was god awful and Dalton just looked ordinary with his less-than stellar arm strength. Greg McElroy was horrendous. Locker hit Titus Young directly in the hands and he dropped it but other than that you are correct he did not look very good.

Lavar: you're watching some other game. Nothing you say here is supported by what happened on the field so far.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry that Locker looks like a CFL player, but your opinions here aren't supported by the play on the field. I'm also sorry I bothered to attack your boy. Silly me for not thinking that he's not to blame for any of his mistakes :rolleyes:

And yet all I said was Locker hit Titus Young in the hands, I guess you missed the part where I said he has not played well at all. I never defended Locker just merely said every QB besides Ponder has looked poor in this game.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:49 PM
Lavar: you're watching some other game. Nothing you say here is supported by what happened on the field so far.

Got the game on right now and Dalton has no arm strength, McElroy is not capable of being a QB when pressure gets in his face and Stanzi looked like complete trash. I honestly don't know what you're seeing that you can argue with me about this?

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:50 PM
And yet all I said was Locker hit Titus Young in the hands, I guess you missed the part where I said he has not played well at all. I never defended Locker just merely said every QB besides Ponder has looked poor in this game.

Because what you're doing is to trash everyone else playing so you can try and mitigate Locker's sh*tty performance today. Dalton's looked good, McElroy's looked good. Stanzi's been uneven. Jake Locker should play in Canada.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Because what you're doing is to trash everyone else playing so you can try and mitigate Locker's sh*tty performance today. Dalton's looked good, McElroy's looked good. Stanzi's been uneven. Jake Locker should play in Canada.

I am in no way trying to make excuses for Locker, you're digging to much sir. There is no possible way you could think McElroy looked good today Akh, same with Dalton. This game has been completely dominated by the defenses with the exception of the play from Ponder. Locker looked terrible, Dalton has looked terrible, McElroy has looked terrible and now Kaepernick with the exception of one pass has looked terrible. Stanzi was probably the worse of the bunch.

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 04:57 PM
I am in no way trying to make excuses for Locker, you're digging to much sir. There is no possible way you could think McElroy looked good today Akh, same with Dalton. This game has been completely dominated by the defenses with the exception of the play from Ponder. Locker looked terrible, Dalton has looked terrible, McElroy has looked terrible and now Kaepernick with the exception of one pass has looked terrible. Stanzi was probably the worse of the bunch.

+1 If they were allowed to blitz it would be unwatchable from a QB standpoint. Stanzi suuuuuuuuuuuuuukks

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 04:57 PM
I am in no way trying to make excuses for Locker, you're digging to much sir. There is no possible way you could think McElroy looked good today Akh, same with Dalton. This game has been completely dominated by the defenses with the excpetion of the play from Ponder. Locker looked terrible, Dalton has looked terrible, McElroy has looked terrible and now Kaepernick with the exception of one pass has looked terrible. Stanzi was probably the worse of the bunch.

Any discussion regarding Locker with you is simply pointless. You're just all-in with him no matter what anyone says or what he does on the field. He could rob a liquor store and you would compliment his decision making ability lol.

As for Dalton and McElroy: i'm not the only person who saw the same thing. But feel free to believe whatever you want to. I'm sorry that Locker sucks ass, but thats not my problem.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:00 PM
Kaepernick is raw, but he has the indescribable "it."

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:00 PM
Any discussion regarding Locker with you is simply pointless. You're just all-in with him no matter what anyone says. He could rob a liquor store and you would compliment his decision making ability lol.

As for Dalton and McElroy: i'm not the only person who saw the same thing. But feel fee to believe whatever you want to. I'm sorry that Locker sucks ass, but thats not my problem.

Why do you insist on making everything about Locker when I am clearly not defending Locker at all? I have not complimented Locker on his play one time during this game and I have not said anything about him playing great. All I merely said was Dalton and McElroy have done nothing, absolutely nothing at all and I'm blown away that you think either played well.

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 05:02 PM
Any discussion regarding Locker with you is simply pointless. You're just all-in with him no matter what anyone says or what he does on the field. He could rob a liquor store and you would compliment his decision making ability lol.

As for Dalton and McElroy: i'm not the only person who saw the same thing. But feel free to believe whatever you want to. I'm sorry that Locker sucks ass, but thats not my problem.

I don't think Lavar is as invested in Locker as Todd McShay is. :moon1:

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:02 PM
Why do you insist on making everything about Locker when I am clearly not defending Locker at all? I have not complimented Locker on his play one time during this game and I have not said anything about him playing great. All I merely said was Dalton and McElroy have done nothing, absolutely nothing at all and I'm blown away that you think either played well.

This is my last reply to you here, PM me if you want to continue it: There's no way you could come to an honest conclusion that Dalton or McElroy looked bad today. And, imo, you're saying that so you can turn around and try to mitigate Locker's performance today. If Dalton and McElroy have done nothing, how would you rate Locker's performance? Are there adjectives bad enough for it?

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 05:04 PM
This is my last reply to you here, PM me if you want to continue it: There's no way you could come to an honest conclusion that Dalton or McElroy looked bad today. And, imo, you're saying that so you can turn around and try to mitigate Locker's performance today.

That's because you have been on Stanzi and Dalton's jock.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:06 PM
That's because you have been on Stanzi and Dalton's jock.

Yes, thats why I complemented Greg McElroy and said that Stanzi has been uneven lol. Another swing and a miss for you.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:11 PM
This is my last reply to you here, PM me if you want to continue it: There's no way you could come to an honest conclusion that Dalton or McElroy looked bad today. And, imo, you're saying that so you can turn around and try to mitigate Locker's performance today. If Dalton and McElroy have done nothing, how would you rate Locker's performance? Are there adjectives bad enough for it?

I have no reason whatsoever to get involved in a PM battle with you. I have clearly said Locker was terrible today along with every other QB so far, with the exception of Ponder and now Kaepernick. I am a very honest person who has absolutely no problem busting the chops of a player I like. I have not once used the play of the other QB's in this game to justify the poor play of Locker and honestly could careless what you think, I think. I have always been respectful towards you and I will continue to do so regardless of you claiming me to be dishonest.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:14 PM
Locker with a better pass on 2nd to a wide open Young, then throws up a wounded duck lol

Edit: He's got the fumbles.

silverspring
01-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Kaepernick certainly has an arm. Did you guy see that throw by kaepernick where he was throwing it to a receiver coming back into the middle of the field. There was defenders coming from both sides, the ball seemed to get there before he released it. At game speed his release really doesn't look as blatantly odd as some make it out to be.

Also in terms of watching these qbs, all of them are going to be a little off because they only had like 4 days to work on the routes and timing with their receivers. I think it is more important to look at the reads, how they move in the pocket, the delivery/ball speed and if the ball is at least close to on target than to dissect slight inaccuracies.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Great drive by the North there. Scott looked real good on that drive.

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 05:19 PM
Nice TD drive by Locker and Scott

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 05:20 PM
I really think the Locker debate is a moot one from a Skins standpoint.

The idea of Shanahan taking a guy who completed less than 54 percent of his college passes seem close to impossible

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:22 PM
I really think the Locker debate is a moot one from a Skins standpoint.

The idea of Shanahan taking a guy who completed less than 54 percent of his college passes seem close to impossible

That, and Shanny isn't going to want to roll with Grossman for more than a few games in 2011. Imo, you can strike off the list for the Skins any QBs who are multi-year projects.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:26 PM
Greg Jones is another guy that has not looked very good today.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:27 PM
Powell has looked good today too.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:28 PM
Greg Jones is another guy that has not looked very good today.

Cosign that. He's been out of position WAY too much.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:30 PM
Von Miller seemed pretty impressive today. I'm not the biggest fan of him but I have to give credit where it is due. Brooks Reed and the LB from Miami have been all over the field as well.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:31 PM
Powell has looked good today too.

He really seems to go after contact and I like that about him.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:32 PM
Solder might be able to run a screen, but he looked clueless on that run play Mike.

GenMgr
01-29-2011, 05:33 PM
Anybody willing to compare Kaepernick to Rothlisberger as far as having the ability to extend plays?

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:34 PM
That was one hell of a pass by Stanzi.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:34 PM
Great drive by Stanzi. Has made some really nice throws.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:34 PM
Stanzi has made some great passes this drive.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:35 PM
I was hoping to see more out of Austin Pettis but he really hasn't done much.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Stanzi has made some great passes this drive.

I agree with Mayock on him: its all about the guile. He has poise and pocket presence--but he doesn't have the arm you'd like.

edit: bad pass on 3rd.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:36 PM
I was wrong about Von Miller. I have no problem with the Skins drafting him @ #10.

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 05:37 PM
Anybody willing to compare Kaepernick to Rothlisberger as far as having the ability to extend plays?

More like Jason Campbell

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:38 PM
I was wrong about Von Miller. I have no problem with the Skins drafting him @ #10.

+1. Doubt he's available when we pick though. He's got Jerry Jones written all over him.

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 05:40 PM
+1. Doubt he's available when we pick though. He's got Jerry Jones written all over him.

God I hope not!

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:41 PM
Miller might be top 4 now.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:42 PM
God I hope not!

With Anthony Spencer being a major disappointment and the chance to keep him away from Washington, I could see Dallas taking Miller even though they need a LT in the worse way.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Miller might be top 4 now.

He could make Bills fans forget all about picking Maybin over Orakpo.

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Miller might be top 4 now.

That probably means we will take Ayers at 10 now. :)

*edit* and take Baylor Taylor in the second.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:46 PM
He could make Bills fans forget all about picking Maybin over Orakpo.

Worst. First Rounder. EVAH! I can't believe I lost money to Alibabba on him.

That probably means we will take Ayers at 10 now. :)

Perhaps. He's an interesting player.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:46 PM
If we want Phil Taylor we may have to take him at 10. He looks like Albert Haynesworth 2.0

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Worst. First Rounder. EVAH! I can't believe I lost money to Alibabba on him.



Perhaps. He's an interesting player.

I think Vernon Gholston still owns the rights to that Akh.

silverspring
01-29-2011, 05:48 PM
Stanzi had some nice timing on delivering his throws on that previous drive. Still question whether he has the arm strength for the nfl? Maybe a west coast guy?

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:48 PM
I think Vernon Gholston still owns the rights to that Akh.

Its like comparing herpes to syphilis.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:48 PM
Leonard Hankerson is a hell of a player. He should be there when we pick in the 2nd and we would do well to take him.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:49 PM
Its like comparing herpes to syphilis.

Neither of them are Demetrius Underwood though, that's for sure lol

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:49 PM
I think Vernon Gholston still owns the rights to that Akh.
You guys must be ignoring QBs - Jamarcus Russell recently and that other QB when Peyton Manning was drafted are the worst picks I can recall.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:50 PM
Neither of them are Demetrius Underwood though, that's for sure lol

I think both teams who drafted them would have preferred it if both of them were just insane instead of infected with teh suck.


You guys must be ignoring QBs - Jamarcus Russell recently and that other QB when Peyton Manning was drafted are the worst picks I can recall.

Maybin and Gholston have combined for 6 starts. Russell has made 25.

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:52 PM
You guys must be ignoring QBs - Jamarcus Russell recently and that other QB when Peyton Manning was drafted are the worst picks I can recall.

I wonder if there is at least one cowboy fan out there with a Ryan Leaf jersey?

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 05:54 PM
I think if it were possible for us to come away with Miller or Kerrigan in the first and find a way to get Phil Taylor as well, it would do wonders for our defense.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Drinks are on Christian Ponder tonight. He's made himself millions.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:55 PM
Ponder has helped himself today - still think he's a 3rd rounder (at best).

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 05:58 PM
Ponder has helped himself today - still think he's a 3rd rounder (at best).

Hopefully our 3rd rounder. He's smart and has a good arm.

redskyn1
01-29-2011, 05:59 PM
Athough I have never been a fan, Ponder has had a very nice game. He has improved his stock a bit.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 05:59 PM
Hopefully our 3rd rounder. He's smart and has a good arm.
If we get a 3rd rounder via trade I have no problem with Ponder as the pick.

tuckahoeskin
01-29-2011, 06:00 PM
Jake Locker has "welcome to Enterprise Rental Car" written all over him.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 06:00 PM
If we get a 3rd rounder via trade I have no problem with Ponder as the pick.

If he can show that he can throw in a stiff wind, take him at 41.

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 06:03 PM
If we get a 3rd rounder via trade I have no problem with Ponder as the pick.

If we don't think enough of a QB to take him with one of our first two picks I'm not interested.

JasonCampbell
01-29-2011, 06:04 PM
Worst. First Rounder. EVAH! I can't believe I lost money to Alibabba on him.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs443.snc4/50253_28642907162_2128_n.jpg

Toadslayer
01-29-2011, 06:05 PM
If we don't think enough of a QB to take him with one of our first two picks I'm not interested.

Exactly. None of these QBs have shown me enough to take them in the first two rounds. I say defense first two picks for sure.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 06:06 PM
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs443.snc4/50253_28642907162_2128_n.jpg
He even looks like "Barbie" there.

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 06:06 PM
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs443.snc4/50253_28642907162_2128_n.jpg

More starts than Gholston/Maybin combined. I believe Carp did contribute as a special teamer, Maybin/Gholston are usually inactive.

WinnpegSkinsFan
01-29-2011, 06:07 PM
Ponder gets MVP. No surprise.

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 06:11 PM
Ponder gets MVP. No surprise.

Past SeniorBowl MVPs:

00 Chad Pennington, Marshall
01 LaDainian Tomlinson, TCU
02 Antwaan Randle El, Indiana
03 Larry Johnson, Penn State
04 Philip Rivers, N.C. State
05 Charlie Frye, Akron
06 Sinorice Moss, Miami
07 Tony Hunt, Penn State
08 Matt Forte, Tulane
09 Pat White, West Virginia
10 Brandon Graham, Michigan

JasonCampbell
01-29-2011, 06:12 PM
More starts than Gholston/Maybin combined. I believe Carp did contribute as a special teamer, Maybin/Gholston are usually inactive.

looking like that has to catapult him into the conversation though :)

akhhorus
01-29-2011, 06:14 PM
Past SeniorBowl MVPs:

00 Chad Pennington, Marshall
01 LaDainian Tomlinson, TCU
02 Antwaan Randle El, Indiana
03 Larry Johnson, Penn State
04 Philip Rivers, N.C. State

Looking good!

05 Charlie Frye, Akron
06 Sinorice Moss, Miami
07 Tony Hunt, Penn State
08 Matt Forte, Tulane
09 Pat White, West Virginia
10 Brandon Graham, Michigan

http://www.chandlerphotoimages.com/images/rails_and_trains/abandoned_train_wreck_l.jpg

Lavar703
01-29-2011, 06:27 PM
The NFL Network is really allowing Matt Millen to talk about college prospects?

Patrick
01-29-2011, 06:34 PM
Von Miller is for real.

tribeinca
01-29-2011, 06:38 PM
Von Miller is the real deal, won't fall to 10.

Kerrigan and Taylor impresses.

None of the QBs did much in limited action. Obviously, Ponder is the best of the bunch. Dalton did nothing spectacular. The rest can't justify earlier than the 3rd round. Locker was horrible early, but redeem himself with a few good throws late. McElroy and Stanzi have weak arms, not going to be starters in the NFL. Like Mayock said, Kapernick is raw. He does not have patience in the pocket to find receivers. The stats are inflated in the weak WAC. Another project and I would not be happy to take him in the 2nd.

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 07:39 PM
Kaepernick is raw, but he has the indescribable "it."

I agree but I'd like to see him pass more instead of tuckin' and running...
He showed some promise I think....he's raw but if I saw anyone who might develop into something I'd bet on him....What do I know though. Guess time will tell...


Earlier I had posted about Dalton...I still think he had a couple of lasers that looked good. HOWEVER, NO MATTER HOW WE SPIN IT, QB'S WERE UNIMPRESSIVE ACROSS THE BOARD AND I'M NOT SOLD ON ANY OF THEM (at least for our first two rounds) Locker couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

WarEagle
01-29-2011, 07:40 PM
Missed the game. My cable doesn't carry the diabolical NFL Network.

SKINSATIONAL
01-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Von Miller is the real deal, won't fall to 10.

Kerrigan and Taylor impresses.

None of the QBs did much in limited action. Obviously, Ponder is the best of the bunch. Dalton did nothing spectacular. The rest can't justify earlier than the 3rd round. Locker was horrible early, but redeem himself with a few good throws late. McElroy and Stanzi have weak arms, not going to be starters in the NFL. Like Mayock said, Kapernick is raw. He does not have patience in the pocket to find receivers. The stats are inflated in the weak WAC. Another project and I would not be happy to take him in the 2nd.

Yeah man....this is going to be tough unless coaches know something we don't know. I hope we stack the lines at this point. If we are going to pick a QB project it better be in the later rounds.

Dolla Bill
01-29-2011, 09:02 PM
I don't see any QB that's worth a pick in the first 2 rounds. Maybe Gabbert, and maybe Mallet, but those are 2nd rounders. I'd prefer to look elsewhere in this draft. I don't think this QB class is all that impressive.

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 09:13 PM
I don't see any QB that's worth a pick in the first 2 rounds. Maybe Gabbert, and maybe Mallet, but those are 2nd rounders. I'd prefer to look elsewhere in this draft. I don't think this QB class is all that impressive.

Gabbert is not a second round prospect. It'll be surprising if he makes beyond the first five picks, much less the first 32.

Dolla Bill
01-29-2011, 10:05 PM
Gabbert is not a second round prospect. It'll be surprising if he makes beyond the first five picks, much less the first 32.

What i'm saying is that i'm not really that impressed with any of the QBs of this draft. If it were any other year for QBs, i'm not sure Gabbert would even be considered in the first round. I haven't seen anything along the lines of "OMG he's going to be awesome!".

I just don't see it with any of these QBs. All of their flaws far outweigh their strengths.

cal_junior
01-29-2011, 10:12 PM
What i'm saying is that i'm not really that impressed with any of the QBs of this draft. If it were any other year for QBs, i'm not sure Gabbert would even be considered in the first round. I haven't seen anything along the lines of "OMG he's going to be awesome!".

I just don't see it with any of these QBs. All of their flaws far outweigh their strengths.

I go back and forth. There are times where I feel like you do, and then there are times I think Gabbert, Newton, Stanzi and maybe another guy will all end up being legit NFL starters for years.

The information is so incomplete at this point it's difficult to say for sure .

skinsfan36
01-29-2011, 10:13 PM
ponders injury was an arm injury correct? if so if he fully recovers he may be the 2nd best qb now lol. hes characterized as a wco qb that doesnt have the greatest arm strength. sounds like a fit here maybe. im starting to think we go gabbert or bpa at OLB/DE/WR at 10 then take a qb at 41.

shally
01-30-2011, 10:48 AM
ponders injury was an arm injury correct? if so if he fully recovers he may be the 2nd best qb now lol. hes characterized as a wco qb that doesnt have the greatest arm strength. sounds like a fit here maybe. im starting to think we go gabbert or bpa at OLB/DE/WR at 10 then take a qb at 41.

he has had at least one concussion that kept him out of game(s)

he is also a very smart person.. already has 1 advanced degree, and nearly a second. learning a system wont be a problem for him.. arm strength and durability might be the major issues

fent
01-30-2011, 10:52 AM
I don't see any QB that's worth a pick in the first 2 rounds. Maybe Gabbert, and maybe Mallet, but those are 2nd rounders. I'd prefer to look elsewhere in this draft. I don't think this QB class is all that impressive.

I'm with you on that one. Gabbert strikes me as that guy that is rated as highly as he is just because the only legit QB prospect dropped out of this race. He seems like Alex Smith to me. Not so much physically, but just the unwarranted hype surrounding him. I have no doubts he'll go in the top 10 because he appears to be the top QB in this draft, but I think the team that takes him that high is going to be sorely disappointed.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm with you on that one. Gabbert strikes me as that guy that is rated as highly as he is just because the only legit QB prospect dropped out of this race. He seems like Alex Smith to me. Not so much physically, but just the unwarranted hype surrounding him. I have no doubts he'll go in the top 10 because he appears to be the top QB in this draft, but I think the team that takes him that high is going to be sorely disappointed.

No QB worth taking with one of the first 64 picks? Wow.

That's quite a bold statement. History and numbers are not on your side.

fent
01-30-2011, 11:00 AM
More starts than Gholston/Maybin combined. I believe Carp did contribute as a special teamer, Maybin/Gholston are usually inactive.

Yes, but he was drafted by Dallas, so he automatically beats them. The only good thing he did was gain the Cowboys Alex "He Hold Me" Barron, and that's good as defined by Redskins fans.

fent
01-30-2011, 11:08 AM
No QB worth taking with one of the first 64 picks? Wow.

That's quite a bold statement. History and numbers are not on your side.

If you want a backup QB in the first 2 rounds, go for it. I just frankly don't see any QB here that's going to be a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, and that being the case, I don't want anything to do with them. There's too much risk involved in each of them. Gabbert's the best of the group, but he has some big warts. His accuracy clocks in at 63%, but a spread offense QB usually clocks in around 70 (Graham Harrell was above 70, Tebow who had accuracy concerns came in at 67, Colt McCoy was over 70% his Jr/Sr seasons, etc.). His pocket awareness is a concern according to most scouts as he tends to hold onto the ball too long. He also typically makes 1 read in that Missouri offense. I'm sorry, but that's not something I want to take a chance on. Maybe I look to Gabbert if he slides to the 2nd, but when a guy isn't really considered that highly until the other QBs drop out of the draft, I see major red flags.

Edit: and please don't read my comment as saying a QB won't be taken in the first 2 rounds. I just don't see anything here that makes me say "OOH OOH! TAKE HIM!!!"

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 11:15 AM
If you want a backup QB in the first 2 rounds, go for it. I just frankly don't see any QB here that's going to be a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, and that being the case, I don't want anything to do with them. There's too much risk involved in each of them. Gabbert's the best of the group, but he has some big warts. His accuracy clocks in at 63%, but a spread offense QB usually clocks in around 70 (Graham Harrell was above 70, Tebow who had accuracy concerns came in at 67, Colt McCoy was over 70% his Jr/Sr seasons, etc.). His pocket awareness is a concern according to most scouts as he tends to hold onto the ball too long. He also typically makes 1 read in that Missouri offense. I'm sorry, but that's not something I want to take a chance on. Maybe I look to Gabbert if he slides to the 2nd, but when a guy isn't really considered that highly until the other QBs drop out of the draft, I see major red flags.

Gabbert was considered a top guy prior to Luck dropping out - No. 2 in the class according to one of the more experienced guys.

There just aren't college QBs who arrive at this stage without risk. My memory is that at least 1/3 of the hR posters were terrified of Sam Bradford's injury history. Nobody shows up as a sure thing.

fent
01-30-2011, 11:19 AM
Gabbert was considered a top guy prior to Luck dropping out - No. 2 in the class according to one of the more experienced guys.

There just aren't college QBs who arrive at this stage without risk. My memory is that at least 1/3 of the hR posters were terrified of Sam Bradford's injury history. Nobody shows up as a sure thing.

Gabbert was a 5-7th round pick coming into the season, and had a mediocre season for a QB in a spread offense. He's being looked at as highly as he is based on physical measurements when the rest of the game hasn't shown itself. With Bradford, watching tape showed that the concerns about his ability to play under center weren't merited and the shoulder injury came down to whether or not you liked what Doc Andrews had to say. The situations aren't analogous. Yeah, there was risk there, but the risk wasn't "can this guy play in the NFL." It was whether or not you trusted his shoulder to come back. I may be proven wrong, but at 10, I want a little more college success to grab a potential franchise QB.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 11:28 AM
Gabbert was a 5-7th round pick coming into the season, and had a mediocre season for a QB in a spread offense. He's being looked at as highly as he is based on physical measurements when the rest of the game hasn't shown itself. With Bradford, watching tape showed that the concerns about his ability to play under center weren't merited and the shoulder injury came down to whether or not you liked what Doc Andrews had to say. The situations aren't analogous. Yeah, there was risk there, but the risk wasn't "can this guy play in the NFL." It was whether or not you trusted his shoulder to come back. I may be proven wrong, but at 10, I want a little more college success to grab a potential franchise QB.

Gabbert was not a 5-7 round pick pick for anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.

fent
01-30-2011, 11:32 AM
Gabbert was not a 5-7 round pick pick for anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.

Everything I've found about him says had he come out last year, he was a mid-rounder at best. You can disagree with that if you like, just like I'm okay in disagreeing with folks that feel comfortable with him as a potential franchise QB. Only time will tell.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 11:35 AM
Everything I've found about him says had he come out last year, he was a mid-rounder at best. You can disagree with that if you like, just like I'm okay in disagreeing with folks that feel comfortable with him as a potential franchise QB. Only time will tell.

If I were you I'd stop reading those sites immediately. Gabbert was a true sophomore in 2009 and could not have come out.

fent
01-30-2011, 11:52 AM
If I were you I'd stop reading those sites immediately. Gabbert was a true sophomore in 2009 and could not have come out.

Alright internet tough guy, I'll change my reading habits because you say so. Simple fact remains I've seen evaluation after evaluation that say coming into the season he was a mid-rounder at best. I don't like his production coming out of a spread offense and think he's ranked where he is based on his measurables rather than on the field production. Notice, though, that you have yet to respond to any of my concerns with anything substantive. Do you really not have a response or do you just think "I don't like your 'couch potato' sources" is the best way to respond to specific concerns about a prospect?

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 12:05 PM
Alright internet tough guy, I'll change my reading habits because you say so. Simple fact remains I've seen evaluation after evaluation that say coming into the season he was a mid-rounder at best. I don't like his production coming out of a spread offense and think he's ranked where he is based on his measurables rather than on the field production. Notice, though, that you have yet to respond to any of my concerns with anything substantive. Do you really not have a response or do you just think "I don't like your 'couch potato' sources" is the best way to respond to specific concerns about a prospect?

You need to chill out. I'm just saying that if the sites you're going by say he would have been a mid-round pick had he come out after last season they are getting pretty basic facts wrong and probably shouldn't be used as a resource.

There is no anger on my side. Just discussion.

Can you pass along a few of the evaluations you've seen where he was a mid-rounder "at best" coming into 2010?

tuckahoeskin
01-30-2011, 01:03 PM
You need to chill out. I'm just saying that if the sites you're going by say he would have been a mid-round pick had he come out after last season they are getting pretty basic facts wrong and probably shouldn't be used as a resource.

There is no anger on my side. Just discussion.

Can you pass along a few of the evaluations you've seen where he was a mid-rounder "at best" coming into 2010?

You need to get over yourself. Fent has a point and there are many people that agree with that point. Time will tell. I suspect that this draft will not produce a single decent starter at QB. If we draft one, I hope I'm wrong. However, it looks like this draft is shaping up stronger in other areas. We have a lot of needs. BPA isn't a bad option for the Skins this year.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 01:20 PM
You need to get over yourself. Fent has a point and there are many people that agree with that point. Time will tell. I suspect that this draft will not produce a single decent starter at QB. If we draft one, I hope I'm wrong. However, it looks like this draft is shaping up stronger in other areas. We have a lot of needs. BPA isn't a bad option for the Skins this year.

If you're going to fire-off a "you need to get over yourself" at least address the subject at hand. We're talking about Gabbert pre-2010 and the quality of draftnik websites.

If you have something to add, great. If not please refrain from the personal stuff.

tuckahoeskin
01-30-2011, 01:23 PM
If you're going to fire-off a "you need to get over yourself" at least address the subject at hand. We're talking about Gabbert pre-2010 and the quality of draftnik websites.

If you have something to add, great. If not please refrain from the personal stuff.

I did respond to the subject at hand. Once again, when you're on the losing side of an argument you run to your last refuge, calling someone a troll or claiming they're not on topic. Get real. That's weak.

Lavar703
01-30-2011, 01:36 PM
I did respond to the subject at hand. Once again, when you're on the losing side of an argument you run to your last refuge, calling someone a troll or claiming they're not on topic. Get real. That's weak.

Although I completely despise Gabbert as a prospect I really don't see how Cal is on the losing side of this argument when it's one man's opinion versus another?

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 01:38 PM
I did respond to the subject at hand. Once again, when you're on the losing side of an argument you run to your last refuge, calling someone a troll or claiming they're not on topic. Get real. That's weak.

Yet the word Gabbert was not in the post

tuckahoeskin
01-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Although I completely despise Gabbert as a prospect I really don't see how Cal is on the losing side of this argument when it's one man's opinion versus another?

What do you know, Locker fan?!? :) :Peace:

Lavar703
01-30-2011, 01:56 PM
What do you know, Locker fan?!? :) :Peace:

And yet you add nothing again to the argument. Pretty much par for the course for you lately.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 01:59 PM
Lavar:

Is that a Purple Raider in your avatar? Well-played sir, well-played.

tribeinca
01-30-2011, 04:46 PM
If you want a backup QB in the first 2 rounds, go for it. I just frankly don't see any QB here that's going to be a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, and that being the case, I don't want anything to do with them. There's too much risk involved in each of them. Gabbert's the best of the group, but he has some big warts. His accuracy clocks in at 63%, but a spread offense QB usually clocks in around 70 (Graham Harrell was above 70, Tebow who had accuracy concerns came in at 67, Colt McCoy was over 70% his Jr/Sr seasons, etc.). His pocket awareness is a concern according to most scouts as he tends to hold onto the ball too long. He also typically makes 1 read in that Missouri offense. I'm sorry, but that's not something I want to take a chance on. Maybe I look to Gabbert if he slides to the 2nd, but when a guy isn't really considered that highly until the other QBs drop out of the draft, I see major red flags.

Edit: and please don't read my comment as saying a QB won't be taken in the first 2 rounds. I just don't see anything here that makes me say "OOH OOH! TAKE HIM!!!"

When I see comments like this, I have to ask how many times have you actually seen Gabbert played. And I am not talking about Youtube highlights, they are relatively useless. If you want to take some critical comments at face value without actually seeing him play, then I will tell you what I think and I am sure you can easily find positives all over the net, but I don't usually do that myself. I evalute him based on what I saw.

Gabbert has good size and mobility. He can move out of the pocket and made throws. He is very accurate when he has good protection(ding, ding). He has excellent arm strength because he can throw balls left and right, zip a slant. He doesn't throw the deep balls as much, but you can tell he can. He called audibles when he saw biltzes. Many people make it a big deal he didn't take snaps under center. I just don't see it is an issue that prevent me from labelling him as a potential franchise QB. In fact, I would be more concern of any QB if he has poor footwork. Gabbert has some learning to do, and I don't expect him to start till at least mid season. Tebow's completion percentage was enhanced because of his running threat and opponents often left his receivers wide open. McCoy had accuracy and not the size. You can find flaws on every QB. Gabbert was considered 2nd or 3rd best QB by most before Luck drop out. He was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school. If you follow college football, he is on your radar. There is no doubt Gabbert has the best tools in this class and he isn't getting past pick #10.

cal_junior
01-30-2011, 07:31 PM
Gabbert has good size and mobility. He can move out of the pocket and made throws. He is very accurate when he has good protection(ding, ding). He has excellent arm strength because he can throw balls left and right, zip a slant. He doesn't throw the deep balls as much, but you can tell he can. He called audibles when he saw biltzes. Many people make it a big deal he didn't take snaps under center. I just don't see it is an issue that prevent me from labelling him as a potential franchise QB. In fact, I would be more concern of any QB if he has poor footwork. Gabbert has some learning to do, and I don't expect him to start till at least mid season. Tebow's completion percentage was enhanced because of his running threat and opponents often left his receivers wide open. McCoy had accuracy and not the size. You can find flaws on every QB. Gabbert was considered 2nd or 3rd best QB by most before Luck drop out. He was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school. If you follow college football, he is on your radar. There is no doubt Gabbert has the best tools in this class and he isn't getting past pick #10.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. In-depth, clearly stated and intelligent analysis based on first-hand observation?

I'm not sure there's any place in this thread for that kind of nonsense, lol.

hogs86
01-30-2011, 11:52 PM
Not one word about Leonard Hankerson Miami WR. I think he had the best showing out of any one player. IMO he may have the best NFL career and will move up during his nfl pro day workouts.

shally
01-31-2011, 12:16 AM
Not one word about Leonard Hankerson Miami WR. I think he had the best showing out of any one player. IMO he may have the best NFL career and will move up during his nfl pro day workouts.

he had a huge week and a fine game.. he has elevated himself into the first round, in all likelihood..

skins4life24
01-31-2011, 10:51 AM
Gabbert was a 5-7th round pick coming into the season, and had a mediocre season for a QB in a spread offense. He's being looked at as highly as he is based on physical measurements when the rest of the game hasn't shown itself. With Bradford, watching tape showed that the concerns about his ability to play under center weren't merited and the shoulder injury came down to whether or not you liked what Doc Andrews had to say. The situations aren't analogous. Yeah, there was risk there, but the risk wasn't "can this guy play in the NFL." It was whether or not you trusted his shoulder to come back. I may be proven wrong, but at 10, I want a little more college success to grab a potential franchise QB.

Do you have anything to back this up? From everything I have ever heard about Gabbert since he was recruited has talked about him as a potential high pick.

skins4life24
01-31-2011, 11:19 AM
something interesting to watch, http://rivals.yahoo.com/video/recruiting-football/AMP-Top-10-camp-performances-at-QB-81187

Dolla Bill
02-01-2011, 11:13 AM
Not one word about Leonard Hankerson Miami WR. I think he had the best showing out of any one player. IMO he may have the best NFL career and will move up during his nfl pro day workouts.


I was thinking of another WR that he looks similar to in physique/stature that also played at the U. He also played for K-Shanny in TX.

If none of the "can't miss" blue chippers fall to 10, I can see the Skins dealing back to pick up Hankerson.

BigCountry
02-01-2011, 11:21 AM
When I see comments like this, I have to ask how many times have you actually seen Gabbert played. And I am not talking about Youtube highlights, they are relatively useless. If you want to take some critical comments at face value without actually seeing him play, then I will tell you what I think and I am sure you can easily find positives all over the net, but I don't usually do that myself. I evalute him based on what I saw.

Gabbert has good size and mobility. He can move out of the pocket and made throws. He is very accurate when he has good protection(ding, ding). He has excellent arm strength because he can throw balls left and right, zip a slant. He doesn't throw the deep balls as much, but you can tell he can. He called audibles when he saw biltzes. Many people make it a big deal he didn't take snaps under center. I just don't see it is an issue that prevent me from labelling him as a potential franchise QB. In fact, I would be more concern of any QB if he has poor footwork. Gabbert has some learning to do, and I don't expect him to start till at least mid season. Tebow's completion percentage was enhanced because of his running threat and opponents often left his receivers wide open. McCoy had accuracy and not the size. You can find flaws on every QB. Gabbert was considered 2nd or 3rd best QB by most before Luck drop out. He was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school. If you follow college football, he is on your radar. There is no doubt Gabbert has the best tools in this class and he isn't getting past pick #10.

Who's your favorite College Football team? Yes, that was a rethorical question. It's nice to have seen him play you support him so your vision is impaired. The scouting reports are there for a reason so let's wait until his pro day and the combine before. Right now he has a very good arm, athleticism and he throws well on the run. No matter how big a Tigers fan you are, his pocket presence and ability to read a pro-defense are questionable.

shally
02-01-2011, 12:25 PM
I was thinking of another WR that he looks similar to in physique/stature that also played at the U. He also played for K-Shanny in TX.

If none of the "can't miss" blue chippers fall to 10, I can see the Skins dealing back to pick up Hankerson.

easier said than done.. you need to have someone sitting there at #10 that another team cannot live without to make that happen.. this just might be the year, however, because there are guys like Mallett and Newton who are bound to cause controversy and a particular team (Minnesota ?) might just decide they have to have one or the other.. it most often happens for a QB, so maybe this is the year that the Redskins have a real option of trading back to allow another team to jump up and grab a player ???

hogs86
02-01-2011, 01:54 PM
I was thinking of another WR that he looks similar to in physique/stature that also played at the U. He also played for K-Shanny in TX.

If none of the "can't miss" blue chippers fall to 10, I can see the Skins dealing back to pick up Hankerson.

If he could be as good as Andre Johnson i would take him in a second. i would have the number 10 card up before the they could even say the redskins are on the clock.

cal_junior
02-01-2011, 01:57 PM
If he could be as good as Andre Johnson i would take him in a second. i would have the number 10 card up before the they could even say the redskins are on the clock.

Although even having the real Andre Johnson (and a decent QB) hasn't done much for the Texans the past few years.

I'm hoping we go defensive front-7 if we stay at 10 - I'd prefer a NT, but I won't whine if it ends up being an OLB or DE.

tribeinca
02-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Who's your favorite College Football team? Yes, that was a rethorical question. It's nice to have seen him play you support him so your vision is impaired. The scouting reports are there for a reason so let's wait until his pro day and the combine before. Right now he has a very good arm, athleticism and he throws well on the run. No matter how big a Tigers fan you are, his pocket presence and ability to read a pro-defense are questionable.

Haha. I am not a Tiger's fan and have nothing to do with Missouri. There is a difference between a casual college fan and follow your favorite team(alma mater) vs someone that watches games to see talent. I watch a lot of games in the Pac 10, Big Ten, SEC and Big 12. And BTW, I graduated from one of the Pac 10 schools.

A lot of times, fans read scouting reports and trust everything they read. Or when they don't know someone with the addition of negative things they read, they automatically cross the player off the board. Bottom line is, if you have not seen someone play yourself, you should weigh both the strengths and the weaknesses from various scouting reports. And there is a reason why some players are projected as first rounders and some are projected as late rounders. Gabbert is consistently projected as a high first round pick. If you don't want to believe it, it's your choice. I know it is often hard to change someone ideas when they have their opionion locked in. A few of the fans here still think McNabb is one of the elite or Shanahan should be fire after 1 season!

BigCountry
02-01-2011, 02:20 PM
Haha. I am not a Tiger's fan and have nothing to do with Missouri. There is a difference between a casual college fan and follow your favorite team(alma mater) vs someone that watches games to see talent. I watch a lot of games in the Pac 10, Big Ten, SEC and Big 12. And BTW, I graduated from one of the Pac 10 schools.

A lot of times, fans read scouting reports and trust everything they read. Or when they don't know someone with the addition of negative things they read, they automatically cross the player off the board. Bottom line is, if you have not seen someone play yourself, you should weigh both the strengths and the weaknesses from various scouting reports. And there is a reason why some players are projected as first rounders and some are projected as late rounders. Gabbert is consistently projected as a high first round pick. If you don't want to believe it, it's your choice. I know it is often hard to change someone ideas when they have their opionion locked in. A few of the fans here still think McNabb is one of the elite or Shanahan should be fire after 1 season!

You had me fooled but I wouldnt throw the poster you originally responded to into that group and I happen to agree with him. When it's all said and done this first round QB class could make the 99 class look brilliant in comparison.

Dolla Bill
02-01-2011, 02:36 PM
There is only 3 offensive players that I would want from this draft that I can think of; Julio Jones, Mark Ingram, and A.J. Green. Those seems to be the "safest" picks for offense.

I would draft D in the first and 2nd round, unless there is a great OL prospect in the 2nd. The defense needs to be re-hauled this offseason moreso than the offense. I want the rest of the NFL to be on notice with our D.

cal_junior
02-01-2011, 02:40 PM
There is only 3 offensive players that I would want from this draft that I can think of; Julio Jones, Mark Ingram, and A.J. Green. Those seems to be the "safest" picks for offense.

I would draft D in the first and 2nd round, unless there is a great OL prospect in the 2nd. The defense needs to be re-hauled this offseason moreso than the offense. I want the rest of the NFL to be on notice with our D.

Green will be one of the first players taken and Shanahan doesn't take RBs high in the draft, so you can take those two off the list.

Julio Jones may end up being a great NFL player, but using our first round pick on a WR would be a mistake, IMO.

shally
02-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Green will be one of the first players taken and Shanahan doesn't take RBs high in the draft, so you can take those two off the list.

Julio Jones may end up being a great NFL player, but using our first round pick on a WR would be a mistake, IMO.

agree. we can get a productive young receiver as a free agent.. rookies take time to learn the system. better to get an impact player for the defense

SKINSATIONAL
02-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Green will be one of the first players taken and Shanahan doesn't take RBs high in the draft, so you can take those two off the list.

Julio Jones may end up being a great NFL player, but using our first round pick on a WR would be a mistake, IMO.

Not to mention the fact that Shanny's good at picking up backs and receivers who may be unheralded but have lots of hidden potential...pass on RB at 10...pass on wide receiver at ten. Go nose tackle or Lb at 10 if the Qb Shanny wants is not there...then grab a solid center in case Erik Cook cannot take the reigns.

If we did grab a back anyway I would rather have a speedier back...Torrain can do the rest

VegasSkinsFan
02-01-2011, 02:48 PM
agree. we can get a productive young receiver as a free agent.. rookies take time to learn the system. better to get an impact player for the defense

I agree. Wouldnt mind seeing a WR and OLB in FA with our 1st 2 picks going for NT and 3-4 DE . Yeah that wont address the QB situation...but it will lock up the D i think and help cover any flaws in the FS position until that is addressed. GO SKINS !!!!!

WinnpegSkinsFan
02-01-2011, 04:12 PM
Not to mention the fact that Shanny's good at picking up backs and receivers who may be unheralded but have lots of hidden potential...pass on RB at 10...pass on wide receiver at ten. Go nose tackle or Lb at 10 if the Qb Shanny wants is not there...then grab a solid center in case Erik Cook cannot take the reigns.

If we did grab a back anyway I would rather have a speedier back...Torrain can do the rest
The problem with this is that there is not a NT in this draft worth a top 10 pick much less a 1st rounder. An OLB like Von Miller would be fine. It's about value - if Julio Jones is there @ 10 (assuming no trade down offers) and Miller has been drafted then Jones is good value there. I agree about RB - there is not a RB that is worth a top 15 pick in this draft, IMO.
Edit: DE @ #10 would be OK too.

Dolla Bill
02-01-2011, 04:38 PM
The problem with this is that there is not a NT in this draft worth a top 10 pick much less a 1st rounder. An OLB like Von Miller would be fine. It's about value - if Julio Jones is there @ 10 (assuming no trade down offers) and Miller has been drafted then Jones is good value there. I agree about RB - there is not a RB that is worth a top 15 pick in this draft, IMO.
Edit: DE @ #10 would be OK too.

Are you saying that Mark Ingram isn't a top 15 player? Really? He seems like he is Emmitt Smith 2.0, but a bit quicker and a better receiver. You wouldn't want a guy like that for the next 8-10 years?

WinnpegSkinsFan
02-01-2011, 05:57 PM
Are you saying that Mark Ingram isn't a top 15 player? Really? He seems like he is Emmitt Smith 2.0, but a bit quicker and a better receiver. You wouldn't want a guy like that for the next 8-10 years?
Ingram is good but borderline top 1/2 of the draft. Plus, as far as the Skins are concerned Shanny does OK with later round RBs. Would he be a good addition to the Skins, absolutely. However, the Skins have far greater needs, IMO.

cal_junior
02-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Ingram is good but borderline top 1/2 of the draft. Plus, as far as the Skins are concerned Shanny does OK with later round RBs. Would he be a good addition to the Skins, absolutely. However, the Skins have far greater needs, IMO.

Exactly. If he's around in the fourth or fifth round I'd be okay with it.

There are just so many more important positions we have to look at.

Dolla Bill
02-01-2011, 07:45 PM
Exactly. If he's around in the fourth or fifth round I'd be okay with it.

There are just so many more important positions we have to look at.

While I agree that the Skins need a lot of help, let me pose to you this problem. Do you choose the BPA regardless of position, or do you draft the BPA according to need? Seems that a lot of the top organizations have no problem in drafting the BPA, period. Regardless of position.

What if Ingram is the BPA at 10? What do you do?

cal_junior
02-01-2011, 08:13 PM
Do you choose the BPA regardless of position, or do you draft the BPA according to need? Seems that a lot of the top organizations have no problem in drafting the BPA, period. Regardless of position.

What if Ingram is the BPA at 10? What do you do?

The different between BPA and second or third-BPA is going to be small enough that you aren't killing value by taking a position where there is a huge gaping need.

We have a RB on the roster who had 150 yards . . . in one half. Compare that to what we have at OLB or NT or OC or OG. It's just not close.

WinnpegSkinsFan
02-01-2011, 08:16 PM
While I agree that the Skins need a lot of help, let me pose to you this problem. Do you choose the BPA regardless of position, or do you draft the BPA according to need? Seems that a lot of the top organizations have no problem in drafting the BPA, period. Regardless of position.

What if Ingram is the BPA at 10? What do you do?
I always favour drafting BPA according to need. Ingram may be OK @#10 but I highly suspect there are players at positions of greater need than RB who will be available. You could look at it another way, what if BPA @ #10 was a TE? The Skins would be crazy to draft him given their current roster.
Put it this way - there aren't too many positions that aren't needs for the Skins in some degree or another, but you have to consider value for the pick.

skinsfan36
02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
I always favour drafting BPA according to need. Ingram may be OK @#10 but I highly suspect there are players at positions of greater need than RB who will be available. You could look at it another way, what if BPA @ #10 was a TE? The Skins would be crazy to draft him given their current roster.
Put it this way - there aren't too many positions that aren't needs for the Skins in some degree or another, but you have to consider value for the pick.

ingram is not a top ten pick. he would be a reach plus rb is like 8th on our list of needs lol

SKINSATIONAL
02-01-2011, 09:22 PM
While I agree that the Skins need a lot of help, let me pose to you this problem. Do you choose the BPA regardless of position, or do you draft the BPA according to need? Seems that a lot of the top organizations have no problem in drafting the BPA, period. Regardless of position.

What if Ingram is the BPA at 10? What do you do?

Um...consider Matt Millen and that'll clear things up for you. Seriously though....if your going best player available...u go with the best player available that fits a need. As much as I like Fred Davis, I was shocked when we picked him an not an offensive lineman...that pick didnt address an IMMEDIATE need.

Lavar703
02-02-2011, 08:22 AM
The different between BPA and second or third-BPA is going to be small enough that you aren't killing value by taking a position where there is a huge gaping need.

We have a RB on the roster who had 150 yards . . . in one half. Compare that to what we have at OLB or NT or OC or OG. It's just not close.

I'm getting to the point where I just want us to take Phil Taylor. At this point it seems like a major reach but he's an absolute monster who cannot be contained by one OL. I see his draft stock skyrocketing by draft day.

cal_junior
02-02-2011, 10:54 AM
I'm getting to the point where I just want us to take Phil Taylor. At this point it seems like a major reach but he's an absolute monster who cannot be contained by one OL. I see his draft stock skyrocketing by draft day.

It depends. He might only be the 4th or 5th best "DT" in the draft, but if we think he is the best pure nose in the class I think that's still good value at No. 10.

But I'm a guy who views NT as our No. 2 need after QB so I'm a little biased. I want us to get a stud nose very, very badly.

I'm convinced the No. 1 reason the Packers defense went from so-so to awesome in 2009 was B.J. Raji. Matthews is able to do a lot of the things he does because of Raji.

Emmanouel8
02-02-2011, 12:25 PM
It depends. He might only be the 4th or 5th best "DT" in the draft, but if we think he is the best pure nose in the class I think that's still good value at No. 10.

But I'm a guy who views NT as our No. 2 need after QB so I'm a little biased. I want us to get a stud nose very, very badly.

I'm convinced the No. 1 reason the Packers defense went from so-so to awesome in 2009 was B.J. Raji. Matthews is able to do a lot of the things he does because of Raji.

If QB is there at #10 I'm for a QB too.

If not BPA that is a offensive or defensive lineman, or pass rushing LB.

WR and RB would just be awful in the First. Maybe a WR in the 2nd, but I'd rather wait a year and address more fundamental needs now.

The good thing is Shanahan can find good RBs and WRs without burning a high pick.

Plus most of us know statistically speaking WRs have almost the same chance to succeed as a 2nd rounder than as a 1st. The value says go 2nd with WR.

One thing that is clear is we need speed. If we go skill position it needs to be a burner IMO. We looked very old and slow the previous 2 seasons and while there are great players that don't have tremendous speed, at this point we need to start matching up with other teams.

There are several scenarios that would make me happy, but RB or WR in wither of the first two rounds would not.

skinsfan36
02-02-2011, 07:12 PM
It depends. He might only be the 4th or 5th best "DT" in the draft, but if we think he is the best pure nose in the class I think that's still good value at No. 10.

But I'm a guy who views NT as our No. 2 need after QB so I'm a little biased. I want us to get a stud nose very, very badly.

I'm convinced the No. 1 reason the Packers defense went from so-so to awesome in 2009 was B.J. Raji. Matthews is able to do a lot of the things he does because of Raji.

i think he will be picked between 25-44.the packers are using a 3 nose tackle front now with howard green(cut by us in tc),and jenkins.

cal_junior
02-02-2011, 07:28 PM
the packers are using a 3 nose tackle front now with howard green(cut by us in tc),and jenkins.

I'm not sure about the DE spots, but I know Raji's play at nose has been given a ton of credit for what they've done this season on defense.

SKINSATIONAL
02-02-2011, 07:42 PM
I'm not sure about the DE spots, but I know Raji's play at nose has been given a ton of credit for what they've done this season on defense.

Thats exactly why we need a force in the middle. Matthews is great...but without Raji he would definitely see some type of drop off in production. A dominant nose tackle would increase our linebackers abilities on the field. BJ Raji doesn't just occupy blockers either...He's that moving wall that was about to squish Indiana Jones.