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View Full Version : Skins Sign K Neil Rackers


LadyNRedskinsfan
04-24-2012, 06:37 PM
Per Twitter:

Link via John McClain (https://twitter.com/#!/McClain_on_NFL/status/194926202392297472)

cal_junior
04-24-2012, 06:48 PM
Rackers: "We've had promises for awhile now on a long-term deal and they came to us with a minimum offer. So we just felt like the opportunity for advancement was not in Houston. We came in and did the job like they asked us to. Didn't really feel like that was appreciated."

Let's hope there's not a reason the Texans passed on bringing him back.

Farmer Ted
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
See ya, Guano!

NCskinsfanatic
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
I think we'd be smart to keep Gano through pre-season as competition for Rakers, if Rakers still has it then Gano does little more than keep him honest. But if Rakers has slipped then Gano will have a legit shot at remaining THE guy. Or perhaps there's lingering concerns after Ganos back injury...gues time will tell.

cal_junior
04-24-2012, 07:26 PM
I think we'd be smart to keep Gano through pre-season as competition for Rakers, if Rakers still has it then Gano does little more than keep him honest. But if Rakers has slipped then Gano will have a legit shot at remaining THE guy. Or perhaps there's lingering concerns after Ganos back injury...gues time will tell.

I'm sure this is what will happen.

silverspring
04-24-2012, 07:49 PM
Yea!

Emmanouel8
04-24-2012, 08:02 PM
If Rackers can stay healthy he is a major upgrade. Every kick Gano takes the heart skips a beat. Its a medical fact.

Skins57
04-24-2012, 08:03 PM
could be a huge upgrade....lets hope

shally
04-24-2012, 08:11 PM
not a young guy.. when kickers start to fall off, they can go very quickly.. on the other hand, some kickers can stay effective for a long long time

cal_junior
04-24-2012, 08:34 PM
not a young guy.. when kickers start to fall off, they can go very quickly.. on the other hand, some kickers can stay effective for a long long time

I'm having McNabb flashbacks. Why is a team so eager to part with a seemingly solid veteran?

GloryHog
04-24-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm having McNabb flashbacks. Why is a team so eager to part with a seemingly solid veteran?

Competition is always good, but I'd think long and hard before cutting Gano. Washington has a history of cutting loose young kickers right before they embark on long successful careers.

I can't say for certain if moving on from Gano is a good idea, but he would have to be thoroughly beaten out in training camp and the pre-season for me to give that much thought.

RedskinsDave
04-24-2012, 09:23 PM
Competition is always good, but I'd think long and hard before cutting Gano. Washington has a history of cutting loose young kickers right before they embark on long successful careers.

I can't say for certain if moving on from Gano is a good idea, but he would have to be thoroughly beaten out in training camp and the pre-season for me to give that much thought.

A history? One guy?

BostonSkins
04-24-2012, 10:19 PM
Gano is the second worst kicker I've ever seen...the first being Suisham. If Gano never kicks again for the Redskins it is A-OK with me.

shally
04-24-2012, 11:48 PM
Gano is the second worst kicker I've ever seen...the first being Suisham. If Gano never kicks again for the Redskins it is A-OK with me.

just saying...Suisham has been solid for the Steelers for a couple of years now and that is not an easy place to kick

flave1969
04-25-2012, 02:43 AM
just saying...Suisham has been solid for the Steelers for a couple of years now and that is not an easy place to kick

He was good inside 40 last year, which is more than we can say than Gano.

colkurtz
04-25-2012, 02:49 AM
The Redskins dumped Akers who then went on to have an outstanding career with the Eagles. He wasn't afraid to tackle people either.

I think Gano and Rackers should have a fair competition, simply because Gano had low numbers (influenced by FIVE blocked kicks). Being a kicker is 80% mental. Let's see who wins this summer.

flave1969
04-25-2012, 02:50 AM
Rackers for the record was 32-38 last year.

10 from 11 30-39 Yards
4 from 8 40-49 Yards
4 from 5 50 plus Yards

Gano by Comparison

31-41 (He had 5 blocks - not all his fault)

5-9 30-39 Yards
8-11 40-49 Yards
4-6 50 plus

colkurtz
04-25-2012, 03:08 AM
Rackers for the record was 32-38 last year.

10 from 11 30-39 Yards
4 from 8 40-49 Yards
4 from 5 50 plus Yards

Gano by Comparison

31-41 (He had 5 blocks - not all his fault)

5-9 30-39 Yards
8-11 40-49 Yards
4-6 50 plus

84% for Raker and 86% for Gano, IF we take out the blocked kicks. Should be a good competition.

Gravy
04-25-2012, 05:09 AM
I'm torn...I know this kid well (Gano). But I like competition. We need the best kicker going into the season...whoever that may be...
We also need a better blocking o-line during these FG attempts

cal_junior
04-25-2012, 07:32 AM
Rackers for the record was 32-38 last year.

10 from 11 30-39 Yards
4 from 8 40-49 Yards
4 from 5 50 plus Yards

Gano by Comparison

31-41 (He had 5 blocks - not all his fault)

5-9 30-39 Yards
8-11 40-49 Yards
4-6 50 plus

Anybody know what the two were in terms of touchbacks and their longest few makes of the year?

Keino
04-25-2012, 07:40 AM
I don't get the notion of discounting the blocks to come up with Gano's FG %. If a receiver deflects a ball he should have otherwise caught and it is picked off, that is still an INT counted against the QB. If a QB throws a Hail Mary at the end of the half and it is picked-off, that is still counted as an INT. The nature of team sports is that we depend on others for our performance and Kickers are no different.

Gano does bear some blame for a few of his blocks. As I recall, there were a few that were blocked because the trajectory of the ball was low and defenders pushing up the middle were able to get their hands on the ball, despite not having better than average penetration. I seem to remember Shanny mentioning this at a post-game or next day presser.

I am all for competition. If he beats out Rackers, we know he will have earned it.

culpeper
04-25-2012, 07:53 AM
I don't get the notion of discounting the blocks to come up with Gano's FG %. If a receiver deflects a ball he should have otherwise caught and it is picked off, that is still an INT counted against the QB. If a QB throws a Hail Mary at the end of the half and it is picked-off, that is still counted as an INT. The nature of team sports is that we depend on others for our performance and Kickers are no different.

Gano does bear some blame for a few of his blocks. As I recall, there were a few that were blocked because the trajectory of the ball was low and defenders pushing up the middle were able to get their hands on the ball, despite not having better than average penetration. I seem to remember Shanny mentioning this at a post-game or next day presser.

I am all for competition. If he beats out Rackers, we know he will have earned it.

Good post

Gano getting blocked goes back past last year too. Something is wrong there even if each one wasnt his fault. One of the things we CAN count on Shanny doing is bringing in competition.

smave
04-25-2012, 07:57 AM
I don't get the notion of discounting the blocks to come up with Gano's FG %. If a receiver deflects a ball he should have otherwise caught and it is picked off, that is still an INT counted against the QB. If a QB throws a Hail Mary at the end of the half and it is picked-off, that is still counted as an INT. The nature of team sports is that we depend on others for our performance and Kickers are no different.

Gano does bear some blame for a few of his blocks. As I recall, there were a few that were blocked because the trajectory of the ball was low and defenders pushing up the middle were able to get their hands on the ball, despite not having better than average penetration. I seem to remember Shanny mentioning this at a post-game or next day presser.

I am all for competition. If he beats out Rackers, we know he will have earned it.

Totally agree.

Although, I believe 2-3 of the blocks were just because of complete whiffs of blocking up the middle. There were a few that were just kicked way too low.

Competition is always good. Rackers is a high-quality veteran kicker. Was on top of the league at one point in his career with the Cards. It can only help by bringing him in.

Skins7ny
04-25-2012, 07:59 AM
If Rackers can stay healthy he is a major upgrade. Every kick Gano takes the heart skips a beat. Its a medical fact.
That is the big question. Not his fault, but Rackers seems to get majorly hurt way more than most kickers. Getting a specialist hurt can really mess up your team since there is no backup on the roster. Rackers is a very good kicker when he is healthy, but he appears to be somewhat snakebitten health-wise.
Competition is always good, but I'd think long and hard before cutting Gano. Washington has a history of cutting loose young kickers right before they embark on long successful careers.

I can't say for certain if moving on from Gano is a good idea, but he would have to be thoroughly beaten out in training camp and the pre-season for me to give that much thought.
It appears that Shanahan/Danny Smith made a conscious decision 2 years ago to develop Gano as a young kicker and put up with his growing pains. He is a very talented kid with a strong leg. It would seem silly to cut ties with him now just when our patience with him should be paying off and our offense should be improving with RGIII. However, he had a poor year last year and the competition should be good for him.

I would expect that we will keep Gano if the competition is close to even, and try to trade Rackers for a low-round 2013 draft choice at the end of training camp if any teams are unsatisifed with their kicking situation or any camp injuries occur.

Competition will make Gano better, and if it doesn't then we probably don't want him kicking for us anyway. But it would not surprise me to see him blossom somewhere else if we cut him.

cal_junior
04-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Gano does bear some blame for a few of his blocks. As I recall, there were a few that were blocked because the trajectory of the ball was low and defenders pushing up the middle were able to get their hands on the ball, despite not having better than average penetration. I seem to remember Shanny mentioning this at a post-game or next day presser.

Blocked kicks are a such a tough thing because nobody really knows for sure. A kick that was supposed to travel 50-60 yards only goes about 5 feet, so we kind of have to take the word of the kicker and the coaches who watched from the sidelines.

Gano appeals to me only because of his leg strength and age, but if Rackers is clearly the better guy in camp I'm fine with parting ways.

BIGREDSKINSFAN1963
04-25-2012, 08:23 AM
I'm sure this is what will happen.

Unless his back is a lot worse than anybody is letting on.

cal_junior
04-25-2012, 08:33 AM
Unless his back is a lot worse than anybody is letting on.

Good point. It's entirely possible this has more to do with Gano's health than any other factor.

Red Bear
04-25-2012, 08:33 AM
84% for Raker and 86% for Gano, IF we take out the blocked kicks. Should be a good competition.

the thing about these percentages, they can be a little deceiving. Gano has his FG% over what 2-3 seasons? Rackers has maintained 84% over a long time, atleast over 10 years...

Keino
04-25-2012, 08:42 AM
the thing about these percentages, they can be a little deceiving. Gano has his FG% over what 2-3 seasons? Rackers has maintained 84% over a long time, atleast over 10 years...

That and Gano's real FG% was 75% not 84%. You don't get to have your stats adjusted because your teammates failed. Otherwise we have to bump Jason Campbell's completion percentade by 2-3 points.

CNYSkinFan
04-25-2012, 08:56 AM
Good post

Gano getting blocked goes back past last year too. Something is wrong there even if each one wasnt his fault. One of the things we CAN count on Shanny doing is bringing in competition.
actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.

shally
04-25-2012, 10:09 AM
actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.

+1

totally agree with you..

Red Bear
04-25-2012, 11:10 AM
actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.

While i agree its good to have two punters and two kickers in the offseason, there was a reason not to in the past, and this applies league wide not just to us. and thats the increased roster limit to 90 this year up from 80 in years past. its a little easier to do now and not cut yourself short somewhere else...

Keino
04-25-2012, 11:15 AM
While i agree its good to have two punters and two kickers in the offseason, there was a reason not to in the past, and this applies league wide not just to us. and thats the increased roster limit to 90 this year up from 80 in years past. its a little easier to do now and not cut yourself short somewhere else...

I don't know about that. You are talking the 79th and 80th spots that will need to be cut down to 53 + 5 who clear waivers. What would having those 79th and 80th spots really mean? That we couldn't bring in 2 guys who had no shot to make the roster anyways. I don't buy that as the reason. I think in some years the reason was they felt good about what they had at the position. You may recall last year, that Gano had some competition from some rookie who was a scrub that was released early into camp. It will be nice to see him against real competition. Rackers is definitely in the top half of the Kickers in the league.

Red Bear
04-25-2012, 12:24 PM
I don't know about that. You are talking the 79th and 80th spots that will need to be cut down to 53 + 5 who clear waivers. What would having those 79th and 80th spots really mean? That we couldn't bring in 2 guys who had no shot to make the roster anyways. I don't buy that as the reason. I think in some years the reason was they felt good about what they had at the position. You may recall last year, that Gano had some competition from some rookie who was a scrub that was released early into camp. It will be nice to see him against real competition. Rackers is definitely in the top half of the Kickers in the league.

did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...

CNYSkinFan
04-25-2012, 12:27 PM
did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...
the problem is most other teams at least started tc with two at each position. That is the norm around the NFL, and was gospel until a few years ago. Another change in the way the NFL is handling roster spots is only keeping 2 qbs in the reg season which I think is a disaster waiting to happen.

Keino
04-25-2012, 12:39 PM
did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...

Oh I don't disagree that teams will have added flexibility with the 10 extra spots, I just don't buy that roster space was the reason that the Skins didn't carry two Kickers or two punters in pre-season, in years when the positions were unsettled. As I indicated above, we entered camp last year with 2 Kickers and when it was apparent that the "competition" for Gano stunk out loud, the 2nd Kicker was released. I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year.

I don't think Bruce was saying to himself "man, if we only had 10 extra roster spots, we would be able to bring in some competition for these bums we have as specialists.

Moe
04-25-2012, 01:27 PM
actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.

I"m all for competition, especially for kickers since they're typically mercurial to beging with and largely unpredictable, but the concept of a professional kicker getting a dead leg (injury notwithstanding) is nonsense.

flave1969
04-25-2012, 01:34 PM
Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.

shally
04-25-2012, 01:40 PM
Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.

Gano clearly has the stronger leg now.. But that is worth less now with the rules on kickoffs.. i thought that what Gano did do well was kick into the corner without kicking out of bounds.. he was very good at pinning the returner against the sideline most of the time he tried

CNYSkinFan
04-25-2012, 01:41 PM
I"m all for competition, especially for kickers since they're typically mercurial to beging with and largely unpredictable, but the concept of a professional kicker getting a dead leg (injury notwithstanding) is nonsense.
i submit to you page 2 of the AFCA technical manual. (http://www.feelykicking.com/AFCA_Tech_Manual_2011.pdf) At the bottom of the first page of the article it talks specifically about over use of the kicker in practice in fall sessions. There are numerous articles out there about fatigue late in season being due to over kicking early in the season.

And logically it makes sense. In training camp special teams practice and development is of priority when it comes to judging a roster. All the kicks a kicker must make during the training session can over work one set of K & P. Fatigue leads to injury and by the end of the season every football player feels a drag on them. Its a long tough season and kickers and punters are using some of the same muscles over and over and over again.

CNYSkinFan
04-25-2012, 01:43 PM
Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.
I noticed last year some STs were instructing their kickers to kick higher with longer hangtime to try and get better field position then the 20 yard line a tb gives, another way of gaining advantage.

AustinSkin
04-25-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Gano. But I certainly like the idea of competition in camp. As stated previously on this thread, some of his misses were poor blocking and mis-handled snaps.

The key is to build an explosive offense that gets into the red zone on every possession. It won't matter if there is an occasional miss if you have a commanding lead over your opponent.

I want Sav Rocca to be lonelier than the Maytag repair man.

Santheb
04-25-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm all for it. Gano's been lingering around for too long anyway. Rackers being 50% from 40-49 is a little concerning though, especially since he kicked 8 of his games in a dome.

BIGREDSKINSFAN1963
04-25-2012, 02:14 PM
There will be competition at every position.

Red Bear
04-25-2012, 02:18 PM
Oh I don't disagree that teams will have added flexibility with the 10 extra spots, I just don't buy that roster space was the reason that the Skins didn't carry two Kickers or two punters in pre-season, in years when the positions were unsettled. As I indicated above, we entered camp last year with 2 Kickers and when it was apparent that the "competition" for Gano stunk out loud, the 2nd Kicker was released. I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year.

I don't think Bruce was saying to himself "man, if we only had 10 extra roster spots, we would be able to bring in some competition for these bums we have as specialists.

ive heard shanahan say as much. in his first year here i believe...

Keino
04-25-2012, 02:26 PM
ive heard shanahan say as much. in his first year here i believe...

But if the roster thing were the reason, he doesn't bring a 2nd Kicker to camp last year, no?

Skins7ny
04-25-2012, 02:48 PM
Good point. It's entirely possible this has more to do with Gano's health than any other factor.
I think if Gano's back was bad, he would have signed his tender by now to make sure he got paid this year. His not signing it tells me that his back is probably okay.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Gano. But I certainly like the idea of competition in camp. As stated previously on this thread, some of his misses were poor blocking and mis-handled snaps.

The key is to build an explosive offense that gets into the red zone on every possession. It won't matter if there is an occasional miss if you have a commanding lead over your opponent.

I want Sav Rocca to be lonelier than the Maytag repair man.

Rex did his best to keep Rocca lonely by throwing all those interceptions and losing all of those fumbles.

BIGREDSKINSFAN1963
04-25-2012, 03:03 PM
Gano and Rcker will compete in Camp.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-sign-veteran-free-agent-kicker-neil-rackers/2012/04/25/gIQAQysGhT_story.html

Red Bear
04-25-2012, 03:20 PM
But if the roster thing were the reason, he doesn't bring a 2nd Kicker to camp last year, no?

but they went with only one punter...

Moe
04-25-2012, 03:37 PM
i submit to you page 2 of the AFCA technical manual. (http://www.feelykicking.com/AFCA_Tech_Manual_2011.pdf) At the bottom of the first page of the article it talks specifically about over use of the kicker in practice in fall sessions. There are numerous articles out there about fatigue late in season being due to over kicking early in the season.

Overuse being the key word there. NFL coaches, training staffs and the kickers themselves have more experience and collective knowlegde of reasonable limits than what Feeley is making obvious. His level of instruction is aimed lower than what we're discussing.

And logically it makes sense. In training camp special teams practice and development is of priority when it comes to judging a roster. All the kicks a kicker must make during the training session can over work one set of K & P. Fatigue leads to injury and by the end of the season every football player feels a drag on them. Its a long tough season and kickers and punters are using some of the same muscles over and over and over again.

Juggs machines play a part in this and it's not uncommon to see the coaches themselves sometimes taking reps for the sole purpose of preventing overuse. Jay Feeley is even quoted that a kicker's stamina and strength should increase as the season progresses if not over-used, which also logically makes sense.

If a kicker is dealing with a dead leg then he's an idiot and his coaches should be fired. Entire soccer leagues are populated with players, goalies in particular, that put far more activity on their legs in any given game, twice a week, plus practice over a longe season and it's not a problem.

Moe
04-25-2012, 03:40 PM
I noticed last year some STs were instructing their kickers to kick higher with longer hangtime to try and get better field position then the 20 yard line a tb gives, another way of gaining advantage.

I noticed this too. I've always wondered why coaches didn't instruct more low, hard kicks that bounce around. They might be more unpredictabe for the coverage teams but the same holds true for the blockers and most returners don't handle a bouncing football well.

CNYSkinFan
04-25-2012, 03:45 PM
I noticed this too. I've always wondered why coaches didn't instruct more low, hard kicks that bounce around. They might be more unpredictabe for the coverage teams but the same holds true for the blockers and most returners don't handle a bouncing football well.
i would imagine there it is a case of the ball not going far enough, those squib lkicks routinely yield starting position around the 35 yard line as opposed to 20

Keino
04-25-2012, 10:11 PM
but they went with only one punter...

I think the position was quite settled, don't you? They signed Rocca in F/A. That really has nothing to do with my point which is: I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year. The more likely thinking wasn't "we need those 79th or 80th roster spots" but rather "Nothing in the market represents anything but a lateral move or possibly a downgrade". I am not saying it isn't a consideration only that it isn't THE reason.

skinsfan36
04-25-2012, 10:20 PM
this signing could be almost as good as rocca. rackers is very reliable,he may be 36 but kickers can kick for a while(kasay,hanson,andersons etc)

GeneralDisorder
04-26-2012, 06:16 AM
Overuse being the key word there. NFL coaches, training staffs and the kickers themselves have more experience and collective knowlegde of reasonable limits than what Feeley is making obvious. His level of instruction is aimed lower than what we're discussing.



Juggs machines play a part in this and it's not uncommon to see the coaches themselves sometimes taking reps for the sole purpose of preventing overuse. Jay Feeley is even quoted that a kicker's stamina and strength should increase as the season progresses if not over-used, which also logically makes sense.

If a kicker is dealing with a dead leg then he's an idiot and his coaches should be fired. Entire soccer leagues are populated with players, goalies in particular, that put far more activity on their legs in any given game, twice a week, plus practice over a longe season and it's not a problem.

Fatigue...? From kicking a ball...? Got to agree with Moe here - it's absolute (excuse my French here...) bollocks.

Can't ever remember Jonny Wilkinson (ex-England rugby player) complaining of a dead-leg from over-use - and he used to put hours of practice in a season twice as long as an NFL one.

From personal experience (at one point, I was playing for three teams in the same season for about 5 years back in the day) and if anything, the famous GD left-peg got stronger as the season wore on...

shally
04-26-2012, 06:51 AM
Fatigue...? From kicking a ball...? Got to agree with Moe here - it's absolute (excuse my French here...) bollocks.

Can't ever remember Jonny Wilkinson (ex-England rugby player) complaining of a dead-leg from over-use - and he used to put hours of practice in a season twice as long as an NFL one.

From personal experience (at one point, I was playing for three teams in the same season for about 5 years back in the day) and if anything, the famous GD left-peg got stronger as the season wore on...

pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition

GeneralDisorder
04-26-2012, 07:53 AM
pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition

They is soft then.

;)

I would put that down to the slingy action of pitching the ball. We have bowlers in cricket that send down more deliveries over 4-5 consecutive days. It is a smoother action and consequently dead-arms are exceedingly rare.

Still stand by my comments on kickers though. If they suffer from dead legs without being hit, it's not from over-use, it's more likely that they aren't warming up properly.

BIGREDSKINSFAN1963
04-26-2012, 08:34 AM
everything wears out,even body parts.it's a wonder that there is not some sort of tommy john surgery for pro football palyers,only on their legs instead of arms.

shally
04-26-2012, 08:52 AM
everything wears out,even body parts.it's a wonder that there is not some sort of tommy john surgery for pro football palyers,only on their legs instead of arms.

there is for people who blow out their ACL/PCL complexes.. also, we are now seeing much more Hip Labral surgery so the science is evolving

Moe
04-26-2012, 09:10 AM
pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition

Pitching applies excessive force in an unnatural motion to a set of muscles and joints ill equipped to handle it. Not to mention we're talking about hundreds of reps. Kicking uses the largest muscles in the body and they only exert, maybe 10 times in a busy game.

shally
04-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Pitching applies excessive force in an unnatural motion to a set of muscles and joints ill equipped to handle it. Not to mention we're talking about hundreds of reps. Kicking uses the largest muscles in the body and they only exert, maybe 10 times in a busy game.

it's not the game.. it's the prep and practice work. that may account for hundreds of reps.. and the torque on the hip and other fulcrums of force can be enormous.. you watch a guy like Hansen who literally corkscrews his body to whip his leg through the kick and I can see how a guy could easily tear something if he is just a little out of balance