Fred Davis involved in a bizarre...well...just read

[Red Bear]

I don't think that the skins, in a rare moment of sanity, have any interest in bringing Davis back after this season. There were rumors that they were trying to sign him to a long term deal in March, now they aren't even discussing a deal with him. There's no upside to waiting for after the 2012 season to negotiate for Shanny: either they'll have to pay him a massive deal after a big 2012 season, tag him again at a much higher price or try to convince him to take a massive paycut from his franchise tag if he has a bad 2012. Looks like they're prepared to let him go elsewhere.

Though reported as unlikely to happen, as early back as July 3rd there was a recent report saying we have reached out to Davis about a long term deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/03/redskins-have-reached-out-to-fred-davis-about-doing-a-long-term-deal/

[akhhorus]

Just as Haynesworth was Akh, and you defended him almost to the end. It's not a knock against you but there is nothing wrong with wanting to see what Davis does over a full-season and then deciding on the contract...

You were close about my opinion on it:

Link (http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1199102&postcount=82)

For the record: i think this move will be a disaster, and he'll be gone in 2 seasons, but I hope I'm totally wrong about that also now.


and

if the skins get the Haynesworth from 07-08, this is a steal at any price. If he just played hard for a contract, ***CENSORED BY DJ*** city.

Maybe not that close.

After the skins got him, my position was maximizing the investment and not doing things like benching him for audibling the DLine call(which led to a sack) or trading him when you switch to a system he's not effective in or in retrospect the skins shouldn't have monkeyed around with his bonuses and getting a massive cap penalty for doing so. If the skins foolishly give Davis a massive deal, I'll roll my eyes, be critical of it, etc...but I'll also advocate how to best get the value for that foolishness.

[akhhorus]

Though reported as unlikely to happen, as early back as July 3rd there was a recent report saying we have reached out to Davis about a long term deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/03/redskins-have-reached-out-to-fred-davis-about-doing-a-long-term-deal/

Extremely unlikely.

Rich Tandler of CSNWashington.com, the PFT Live unofficial Redskins correspondent, writes that it’s “extremely unlikely” Davis will be getting a multi-year deal to replace his one-year franchise-player contract.

It’s extremely unlikely Rich is wrong, but a source with knowledge of the situation says that the Redskins have reached out to Davis about a doing a long-term deal.


Doesn't sound like the skins are discussing a deal with Davis at all. If there's new reporting contradicting that position, I've re-evaluate. Until then, the skins don't appear to have any interest in giving Fred a big(or long term) deal.

[HanburgerBum]

The reason why it matters is twofold:
1-It seriously calls into question Davis' judgment. Blame the pot, but he wasn't stoned 24 hours a day, was he?
2-It even more seriously calls into question his judgment that he didn't settle or get a lawyer as soon as the story became public.

If Davis is too stupid to see what this is doing to his reputation, he's too stupid to be a long term asset for the skins.




Why would Davis sign any contract you hypothetically think could exist when someone else would sign him to an overvalued contract without these mythical clauses? Nevermind that the skins might be barred from these supposed clauses you want them to use.



When did IQ become such an important criteria for a football player? I know the NFL uses the Wonderlic test on prospects, but many have scored low and then have been drafted high and gone on to have terrific careers. That is even true of QBs, and I seriously doubt a TE has to be a genius to be successful.

Why do you think another team would be anxious to give Davis a big bucks contract without strings when you think so little of him and his skill set? It seems odd that you paint Davis as an immature moron with a high risk to re-offend on pot, but somehow you think he would be in great demand. Is that being consistent?

[Emmanouel8]

I don't know either whether Davis will be a star player down the road. But, my point is why the rush to judgment? It is not as if this team is just chuck full of talented young players and we can discard one without worrying about it.

I can't imagine many people would consider 3 seasons in a professional capacity a "rush to judgement." Year after year this guy has been involved in some head scratching matters. If the world was perfect there would be no salary cap, the biological clock would stop ticking, we can set Fred up with "counseling," and wait forever for him to come around. Unfortunately his track record makes him a g-a-m-b-l-e.

With Fred it's likely what you see is what you get.

My first roommate in college played H.S. football with Darrell Russell. He told me stories about his shananagins in H.S., which coincidentally were some of the exact same shananagins he pulled late in his pro career. Some people will never change.

Forget about Carlos Rogers phenomenon and put the resources elsewhere.

[HanburgerBum]

Fred Davis' talent with a different brain and work ethic is the Skins' starting TE almost as soon as he arrives in DC.


Until we can create bionic football players, we can only go with what is in the package.

[HanburgerBum]

I'd rather pay the big bucks for a guy after he's shown he's worth it on the field. If he has a monster season in 2012, pay him what he's owed.


Well, at the point, he would have more leverage and probably could demand a big contract with very little strings attached. Yet, wouldn't he still be a risk to re-offend on pot? I think it would be smarter to lock him down when his leverage is at a low point when he would likely be amenable to a reasonable extension with strings. Of course, that would involve some risk. But, hitting on the right risks is what it is all about.

[Emmanouel8]

Just as Haynesworth was Akh, and you defended him almost to the end. It's not a knock against you but there is nothing wrong with wanting to see what Davis does over a full-season and then deciding on the contract...

There's nothing wrong with not learning from the past? Ultimately we were 5-11 with his best production, 6-10 without it. I don't see why we need to keep him around unless we're vying for a pimp awareness month.

[HanburgerBum]

I don't think that the skins, in a rare moment of sanity, have any interest in bringing Davis back after this season. There were rumors that they were trying to sign him to a long term deal in March, now they aren't even discussing a deal with him. There's no upside to waiting for after the 2012 season to negotiate for Shanny: either they'll have to pay him a massive deal after a big 2012 season, tag him again at a much higher price or try to convince him to take a massive paycut from his franchise tag if he has a bad 2012. Looks like they're prepared to let him go elsewhere.


In other words, as far as you are concerned, Davis is a lock to be gone after this year regardless of the kind of season he has in 2012. If that is true, what sense does it make to tag him this year?

The Skins are very unlikely to make the playoffs with or without FD this coming season. He will be gone after making franchise tag money for one year and will not be a part of the rebuilding program. So, the only conclusion, according to you, then would be that Shanahan is more stupid than Davis for tagging Davis.

[HanburgerBum]

For me this whole affair raises legitmate questions about his judgment. It is his judgment that would lead him to make a decision to puff on another blunt. I actually like what Davis brings to the table as a player. It's the other stuff I cannot stand about him and these issues have manifested themselves in various ways throughout his professional career. Whether it's a TD dance after being down 3 scores late in the game, or puffing the Mary J. after being popped already, Freddy's immaturity and poor judgment scare me from the standpoint of hurting the team. You may not have been around for this discussion, but I was completely opposed to franchising Fred Davis, and this incident taken together with everything else tell me that I was correct in that feeling.

I would have let Fred test the market.


Originally, I was totally against using a 2nd round pick on Davis. Ironically, he is the only one of those three 2nd rounders that year that has come close to being a good player.

It is unfortunate that Fred doesn't seem to have much gray matter, but I just think he is too talented to give up on at this point. I would try very hard to come up with a contract that would give him some long-term security while at the same time give the team protection against his re-offending on pot. I think he would be amenable to such a deal, because his leverage is not high right now. But, if he has a big year in 2012, he will be very difficult to re-sign. This team has precious few young talented players, and I just hate to lose another one.

[akhhorus]

When did IQ become such an important criteria for a football player? I know the NFL uses the Wonderlic test on prospects, but many have scored low and then have been drafted high and gone on to have terrific careers. That is even true of QBs, and I seriously doubt a TE has to be a genius to be successful.

The wonderlic doesn't test intelligence, it tests how you can problem solve under pressure. And judgment is important when the player is facing 16 games off if he decides that the NFL can't catch him smoking pot again.


Why do you think another team would be anxious to give Davis a big bucks contract without strings when you think so little of him and his skill set? It seems odd that you paint Davis as an immature moron with a high risk to re-offend on pot, but somehow you think he would be in great demand. Is that being consistent?

I didn't say he'd be in great demand, I said that there will be a team dumb enough to pay him what he's looking for. Especially if the skins don't want to commit a large signing bonus to him because of his off the field issues. The history of NFL in free agency backs me up on this.

In other words, as far as you are concerned, Davis is a lock to be gone after this year regardless of the kind of season he has in 2012. If that is true, what sense does it make to tag him this year?

Because you're not 100% sure about Cooley yet. And I heard that they were shopping Davis in a trade after tagging him. Doesn't sound like the skins are too married to him.

The Skins are very unlikely to make the playoffs with or without FD this coming season. He will be gone after making franchise tag money for one year and will not be a part of the rebuilding program. So, the only conclusion, according to you, then would be that Shanahan is more stupid than Davis for tagging Davis.

I would have tagged him, then traded him for whatever I could get. Your attempt to try and box me in here on something was doomed from the beginning especially since you're trying(again) to put words in my mouth.

[HanburgerBum]

I can't imagine many people would consider 3 seasons in a professional capacity a "rush to judgement." Year after year this guy has been involved in some head scratching matters. If the world was perfect there would be no salary cap, the biological clock would stop ticking, we can set Fred up with "counseling," and wait forever for him to come around. Unfortunately his track record makes him a g-a-m-b-l-e.

With Fred it's likely what you see is what you get.

My first roommate in college played H.S. football with Darrell Russell. He told me stories about his shananagins in H.S., which coincidentally were some of the exact same shananagins he pulled late in his pro career. Some people will never change.

Forget about Carlos Rogers phenomenon and put the resources elsewhere.


Well, it is hard to forget about Carlos Rogers. There was plenty of talk in this chat room about how big a disappointment he was. Now, he is a star player in SF, and we are stuck with two starters at CB--one of whom is a gambler and the other is the epitome of mediocrity. And, our secondary is the weakest area of the defense, if not the entire team.

[akhhorus]

Well, it is hard to forget about Carlos Rogers. There was plenty of talk in this chat room about how big a disappointment he was. Now, he is a star player in SF, and we are stuck with two starters at CB--one of whom is a gambler and the other is the epitome of mediocrity. And, our secondary is the weakest area of the defense, if not the entire team.

You keep bringing up Rogers without mentioning the context: Rogers went to a great defense with great coaching. He always was talented in DC but couldn't stay healthy and probably was misused. And San Fran only gave him a 1 year deal. That considerably changes your point.

[HanburgerBum]

The wonderlic doesn't test intelligence, it tests how you can problem solve under pressure. And judgment is important when the player is facing 16 games off if he decides that the NFL can't catch him smoking pot again.




I didn't say he'd be in great demand, I said that there will be a team dumb enough to pay him what he's looking for. Especially if the skins don't want to commit a large signing bonus to him because of his off the field issues. The history of NFL in free agency backs me up on this.



Because you're not 100% sure about Cooley yet. And I heard that they were shopping Davis in a trade after tagging him. Doesn't sound like the skins are too married to him.



I would have tagged him, then traded him for whatever I could get. Your attempt to try and box me in here on something was doomed from the beginning especially since you're trying(again) to put words in my mouth.



Doesn't it usually take intelligence to be able to solve problem under pressure? I think you are splitting hair there.

We are too smart to give Davis big bucks without strings, but there will be somebody else dumb enough to do so. Is that possible? Probably. Likely? I doubt it.

It's true that there is still some lingering doubt about Cooley's physical status. But, if the team isn't in the playoff hunt? So what? Tagging Davis for one season with absolutely no expectation of retaining him beyond that point makes no sense whether you are short-handed at TE or not when you are not a playoff-caliber team.

You said you would have tagged Davis and then traded him for whatever you could get. But, doesn't tagging him make him less attractive as a trade-bait? The new team would be stuck with his relatively high salary as well as not being able to use the tag on another player. Wouldn't it have been smarter to allow other teams to talk to Davis to work out an extension and trade for him?

[Emmanouel8]

Well, it is hard to forget about Carlos Rogers. There was plenty of talk in this chat room about how big a disappointment he was. Now, he is a star player in SF, and we are stuck with two starters at CB--one of whom is a gambler and the other is the epitome of mediocrity. And, our secondary is the weakest area of the defense, if not the entire team.

I'm pretty sure I was one of the one's advocating to keep him, but I don't think Carlos Rogers and Fred Davis are even comparable situations. Even if they were the same would you double down on 16 because you hit 21 doubling down on 16 twice in your life?

[AustinSkin]

I'm pretty sure I was one of the one's advocating to keep him, but I don't think Carlos Rogers and Fred Davis are even comparable situations. Even if they were the same would you double down on 16 because you hit 21 doubling down on 16 twice in your life?

I always liked Carlos for his coverage. Granted he dropped a lot of picks, but most of the time he was in position to make the play.

[Red Bear]

Extremely unlikely.



Doesn't sound like the skins are discussing a deal with Davis at all. If there's new reporting contradicting that position, I've re-evaluate. Until then, the skins don't appear to have any interest in giving Fred a big(or long term) deal.

whether its likely or unlikely and to what degree isnt the point. the report says we reached out to him, its a july report. you said we havent reached out to him since it was rumored in march. i was merely correcting that and getting the facts straight. if you want to completely dismiss a recent report that doesnt mesh with your opinion then thats on you...

[Keino]

Originally, I was totally against using a 2nd round pick on Davis. Ironically, he is the only one of those three 2nd rounders that year that has come close to being a good player.

It is unfortunate that Fred doesn't seem to have much gray matter, but I just think he is too talented to give up on at this point. I would try very hard to come up with a contract that would give him some long-term security while at the same time give the team protection against his re-offending on pot. I think he would be amenable to such a deal, because his leverage is not high right now. But, if he has a big year in 2012, he will be very difficult to re-sign. This team has precious few young talented players, and I just hate to lose another one.

I would have been fine with that sort of approach prior to franchising him. I would have offered him a modest, multi-year deal with performance escalators and poison pills in the event he screws up with the Mary J. Once they franchised him, they essentially committed to paying him well for a year and if he performs, they have to re-up with him or part ways ( or re-franchise him).

[akhhorus]

Doesn't it usually take intelligence to be able to solve problem under pressure? I think you are splitting hair there.


I know plenty of smart people who choke in the clutch. History is littered with them.

We are too smart to give Davis big bucks without strings, but there will be somebody else dumb enough to do so. Is that possible? Probably. Likely? I doubt it.


Feel free to check out the history of NFL teams giving out dumb, overvalued contracts to players with obvious red flags who only played well in their contract year(exhibit 1: Albert Haynesworth) as a reference to evidence that contradicts you here.

It's true that there is still some lingering doubt about Cooley's physical status. But, if the team isn't in the playoff hunt? So what? Tagging Davis for one season with absolutely no expectation of retaining him beyond that point makes no sense whether you are short-handed at TE or not when you are not a playoff-caliber team.


Unless you were trying to trade him and found no takers. If the skins wanted to keep him why did they stop talks with Davis in the spring?

You said you would have tagged Davis and then traded him for whatever you could get. But, doesn't tagging him make him less attractive as a trade-bait? The new team would be stuck with his relatively high salary as well as not being able to use the tag on another player. Wouldn't it have been smarter to allow other teams to talk to Davis to work out an extension and trade for him?

Exhibit #1093308973985 of you failing to understand the basics of the NFL. Without tagging him the Skins couldn't trade him. He was a unrestricted free agent, the skins(without franchise tagging him), had no ability to trade him to another team. Before you try and say: "I meant before they tagged him" its hard to swallow that any team is going to negotiate in good faith with a team over an untagged player. They would wait to see if the skins would tag him(which was a valid question with the cap penalty this past March).

HB, if you seriously didn't understand that the Skins couldn't deal Davis without tagging him, I don't know why anyone(myself included) wastes any time debating the NFL with you. Thats akin to not knowing that a field goal is 3 points.

[HanburgerBum]

You keep bringing up Rogers without mentioning the context: Rogers went to a great defense with great coaching. He always was talented in DC but couldn't stay healthy and probably was misused. And San Fran only gave him a 1 year deal. That considerably changes your point.


Well, regardless, wouldn't Rogers look good in a burgundy and gold uniform now? I just don't want us to go thru the same regret next year if Davis ends up being a top-notch receiving TE with another team. Sometimes, the best solution to a problem is someone already on the team.

[akhhorus]

whether its likely or unlikely and to what degree isnt the point.

lmao.

the report says we reached out to him, its a july report. you said we havent reached out to him since it was rumored in march. i was merely correcting that and getting the facts straight.

Lmao. Red bear, I see why you didn't post what PFT actually wrote now. PFT heard that the skins "reached out to Davis" about doing a long term deal recently(and absolutely no one else has reported or hinted about this at all, which is odd considering how little NFL news is going on). And you're trying to use that as proof of...something. The problem is in the same sentence of this "report", PFT lends credibility to Rich Tandler's report that its "extremely unlikely" that the skins will give Davis a long term deal. If PFT honestly believed what they "heard" about this topic, it would have been written up much differently then how they did write it up.

At the absolutely most generous interpretation to what you clearly want to believe, its open for debate what's going on. What you want to believe isn't factual(yet) so spare me your attempt to try and say that you just want to get facts straight on this topic lol.

if you want to completely dismiss a recent report that doesnt mesh with your opinion then thats on you...

Maybe if I didn't say: "If there's new reporting contradicting that position, I've re-evaluate" you might have a point. But I did, so you don't.

[akhhorus]

Well, regardless, wouldn't Rogers look good in a burgundy and gold uniform now? I just don't want us to go thru the same regret next year if Davis ends up being a top-notch receiving TE with another team. Sometimes, the best solution to a problem is someone already on the team.

Let me know when you have a relevant comment in response. Thanks.

[HanburgerBum]

I'm pretty sure I was one of the one's advocating to keep him, but I don't think Carlos Rogers and Fred Davis are even comparable situations. Even if they were the same would you double down on 16 because you hit 21 doubling down on 16 twice in your life?


I bring up Rogers because he is a young, talented player we basically ran out of town. This franchise has had a scarcity of talent the last two decades--it can ill-afford to squander what little there is.

Rogers signed a one-year deal with SF for very little money when he left Wash. That meant it would not have taken much to lock him down. So, it would hardly have been "doubling down on 16".

[HanburgerBum]

I always liked Carlos for his coverage. Granted he dropped a lot of picks, but most of the time he was in position to make the play.


Didn't Rogers lead the NFL in interceptions this past season? I think it was just a matter of doing some corrective procedure on his eyesight. Why couldn't the Skins have figured that out?

[AustinSkin]

Didn't Rogers lead the NFL in interceptions this past season? I think it was just a matter of doing some corrective procedure on his eyesight. Why couldn't the Skins have figured that out?

I'm pretty sure he needed a change of scenery. I don't think he could handle the pressure of all the drops in DC.

[justinskins]

Fred Davis' talent with a different brain and work ethic is the Skins' starting TE almost as soon as he arrives in DC.

Fred Davis's talent with a different brain and work ethic might have been a first-round pick. He hasn't underachieved.

[Emmanouel8]

Didn't Rogers lead the NFL in interceptions this past season? I think it was just a matter of doing some corrective procedure on his eyesight. Why couldn't the Skins have figured that out?

I don't know if I buy the whole eye sight bit. I recall Brian Mitchell bringing that up to Carlos on Comcast 2-3 years ago and he said his eyesight was fine. Either he lied and didn't have them checked out, or he's hiding something. Regardless we're back to comparing apples to oranges. Do you really think this is a matter of some magical counseling that will suddenly enlighten Fred to stop playing with pimp cups and bongs?

[cal_junior]

Until we can create bionic football players, we can only go with what is in the package.

On this we agree. And in this case the package is lacking in several key areas.

[cal_junior]

Fred Davis's talent with a different brain and work ethic might have been a first-round pick. He hasn't underachieved.

If your point is that he's been underachieving since college and we're just getting what we paid for, I agree. If he's a hard working college player he's probably a first round draft pick.

[hail2skins]

Didn't Rogers lead the NFL in interceptions this past season? I think it was just a matter of doing some corrective procedure on his eyesight. Why couldn't the Skins have figured that out?
You honestly believe it was eye sight. OK. LMAO.

[akhhorus]

Fred Davis's talent with a different brain and work ethic might have been a first-round pick. He hasn't underachieved.

No, he hasn't but value wise..meh. DeSean Jackson was the pick after him, Ray Rice went 7 picks after him, Mike Pollack 4 picks after Rice. If I was redrafting for the skins, I wouldn't have taken him even knowing what kind of potential he has(and putting aside his pot issues).

[cal_junior]

No, he hasn't but value wise..meh. DeSean Jackson was the pick after him, Ray Rice went 7 picks after him, Mike Pollack 4 picks after Rice. If I was redrafting for the skins, I wouldn't have taken him even knowing what kind of potential he has(and putting aside his pot issues).

And Jermichael Finley went near the end of the third round, if we're looking at that particular position.

[Lacquer Head]

All indicators for a great season for Davis.

[Lavar703]

No, he hasn't but value wise..meh. DeSean Jackson was the pick after him, Ray Rice went 7 picks after him, Mike Pollack 4 picks after Rice. If I was redrafting for the skins, I wouldn't have taken him even knowing what kind of potential he has(and putting aside his pot issues).

Cerrato was making those picks though Akh.

[cal_junior]

All indicators for a great season for Davis.

Agreed. If Cooley stays healthy Davis won't have the individual numbers he did last year, but the two of them will present a two-headed TE monster that will be tough for defenses to match up with. Depth and talent at that position is a great thing when you have a rookie QB.

[smave]

Agreed. If Cooley stays healthy Davis won't have the individual numbers he did last year, but the two of them will present a two-headed TE monster that will be tough for defenses to match up with. Depth and talent at that position is a great thing when you have a rookie QB.

Very true.

[akhhorus]

Cerrato was making those picks though Akh.

And?

[Lavar703]

And?

Really? I need to add more to that? We're talking about a guy who drafted a WR who was a one-year wonder, another one with bad knees that he was warned about and a TE when he already had an all-pro TE. You really think it was a surprise players that he passed on have had success in the NFL?

[akhhorus]

Really? I need to add more to that? We're talking about a guy who drafted a WR who was a one-year wonder, another one with bad knees that he was warned about and a TE when he already had an all-pro TE. You really think it was a surprise players that he passed on have had success in the NFL?

That really doesn't have much to do with my point at hand. Snyderatto made bad value picks. Well duh. I don't see what you're trying to prove outside of retstating the obvious.

[Lavar703]

That really doesn't have much to do with my point at hand. Snyderatto made bad value picks. Well duh. I don't see what you're trying to prove outside of retstating the obvious.

You brought up the players picked after Davis to prove better options were available, no?

[akhhorus]

You brought up the players picked after Davis to prove better options were available, no?

I don't think I was saying that Davis picked himself in the draft.

[Lavar703]

I don't think I was saying that Davis picked himself in the draft.

Alright screw it, I'm totally confused and must've misread something to get this response....

[akhhorus]

Alright screw it, I'm totally confused and must've misread something to get this response....

Justin said that Davis hasn't underachieved. I said in response that it wasn't a good value pick(paraphrasing myself). By implication I'm saying that the lack of value was on Snyderatto.

[Lavar703]

Justin said that Davis hasn't underachieved. I said in response that it wasn't a good value pick(paraphrasing myself). By implication I'm saying that the lack of value was on Snyderatto.

Ah okay, I get it lol

[HanburgerBum]

I don't know if I buy the whole eye sight bit. I recall Brian Mitchell bringing that up to Carlos on Comcast 2-3 years ago and he said his eyesight was fine. Either he lied and didn't have them checked out, or he's hiding something. Regardless we're back to comparing apples to oranges. Do you really think this is a matter of some magical counseling that will suddenly enlighten Fred to stop playing with pimp cups and bongs?



I thought Rogers had his eyes examined and vision corrected in SF, but I am not totally sure if that is the case. If not, it would be difficult to explain why he suddenly started to make interceptions elsewhere when he literally couldn't catch a cold here.

I am not saying Rogers and Davis are identical cases, but they are similar in that they are both relatively young, talented players we have dumped or are trying to dump. It wouldn't surprise me if Davis goes to another team and has a good career.

The bong part is definitely a concern for Fred, but tell me why should you care that he is playing with pimp cups or representing himself in court?

[HanburgerBum]

You honestly believe it was eye sight. OK. LMAO.



Then, how do you explain his suddenly catching every thing in SF?

[smave]

I thought Rogers had his eyes examined and vision corrected in SF, but I am not totally sure if that is the case. If not, it would be difficult to explain why he suddenly started to make interceptions elsewhere when he literally couldn't catch a cold here.

I am not saying Rogers and Davis are identical cases, but they are similar in that they are both relatively young, talented players we have dumped or are trying to dump. It wouldn't surprise me if Davis goes to another team and has a good career.

The bong part is definitely a concern for Fred, but tell me why should you care that he is playing with pimp cups or representing himself in court?

Because his off the field immaturity just makes his image even worse when it comes to the coaching staff thinking he won't take another bong hit.

If you act like an idiot, more than likely you will do idiotic things. He can have all the talent in the world, but it won't matter if he can't play for a season.

[akhhorus]

I thought Rogers had his eyes examined and vision corrected in SF, but I am not totally sure if that is the case. If not, it would be difficult to explain why he suddenly started to make interceptions elsewhere when he literally couldn't catch a cold here.

I am not saying Rogers and Davis are identical cases, but they are similar in that they are both relatively young, talented players we have dumped or are trying to dump. It wouldn't surprise me if Davis goes to another team and has a good career.

The bong part is definitely a concern for Fred, but tell me why should you care that he is playing with pimp cups or representing himself in court?

So, lets have Fred's brain replaced. Problem solved.

[HanburgerBum]

Because his off the field immaturity just makes his image even worse when it comes to the coaching staff thinking he won't take another bong hit.

If you act like an idiot, more than likely you will do idiotic things. He can have all the talent in the world, but it won't matter if he can't play for a season.


Yes, pot is a serious concern for Davis, since it can derail his career. But, the other stuff is nothing to lose sleep over. If embarrassing off-the-field incidents would end careers, the NFL would run short of players and would be comprised of a bunch of churches staffed with choir boys.

[HanburgerBum]

So, lets have Fred's brain replaced. Problem solved.


Yes, a brain transplant. Something we can agree on.

[Lacquer Head]

Agreed. If Cooley stays healthy Davis won't have the individual numbers he did last year, but the two of them will present a two-headed TE monster that will be tough for defenses to match up with. Depth and talent at that position is a great thing when you have a rookie QB.

WORD

The run game will also benefit from the deception of the bigger 2 TE set, even if we don't have great blocking TEs

[guess88]

WORD

The run game will also benefit from the deception of the bigger 2 TE set, even if we don't have great blocking TEs

The thing with Cooley is whether he's still able to play like the 47 we all remember. It's been about 2 years since he's looked on top of things and while I trust his effort in making a comeback, his body still has to agree with it. However, if Cooley makes a comeback, Davis can stay shenanigan free, and the Paul project works out, we'll have a very dangerous stable of TE's.

[Lacquer Head]

Cooley is one of my favorite all-time players. The way he helped carry this team through some dark times won't be forgotten by true fans.

However... I have a nagging suspicion that he will never be the same again. I have no real reason to believe this, except my gut feelings are right a lot of the time.

I would love to be wrong about this.

[Lacquer Head]

Per Zac Boyer:

#Redskins TE Fred Davis said he feels like he owes it to the team and himself to arrive to camp with the right focus after suspension.

Phase one of crazy guy goes to the Pro Bowl completed ahead of schedule.

[Emmanouel8]

Per Zac Boyer:

#Redskins TE Fred Davis said he feels like he owes it to the team and himself to arrive to camp with the right focus after suspension.

Phase one of crazy guy goes to the Pro Bowl completed ahead of schedule.

Seriously? Yap from Pimp Cup qualifies as phase one? Reminds of Chris Rock comedy bit about how your supposed to have a job. Fred your supposed to have the right focus when you come into camp.

[Red Bear]

https://twitter.com/granthpaulsen/status/228891733990195200

fred also says he won the case

[Lacquer Head]

Seriously? Yap from Pimp Cup qualifies as phase one? Reminds of Chris Rock comedy bit about how your supposed to have a job. Fred your supposed to have the right focus when you come into camp.

Every journey begins with a single step

[akhhorus]

Every journey begins with a single joint

FFY lol

[Emmanouel8]

FFY lol

Lmfao.

[guess88]

Cooley is one of my favorite all-time players. The way he helped carry this team through some dark times won't be forgotten by true fans.

However... I have a nagging suspicion that he will never be the same again. I have no real reason to believe this, except my gut feelings are right a lot of the time.

I would love to be wrong about this.

He's one of my faves too, and I'm extremely happy he slimmed down. That seems to be the key extending your career, because it's less stress on the knees and gives you back some speed. I had doubts before, but he's in the best shape I've seen. Much more slender and athletic looking than bulk.

[Lacquer Head]

He's one of my faves too, and I'm extremely happy he slimmed down. That seems to be the key extending your career, because it's less stress on the knees and gives you back some speed. I had doubts before, but he's in the best shape I've seen. Much more slender and athletic looking than bulk.

I'm stoked about the reports coming out of camp.

I'd like nothing more to be wrong about Fred Davis by way of Cooley regaining his form.

[smoak]

I think Fred is clearly the better player at this point and I tend to think Cooley is done. His knee is not healing well, at least that was the report from the early mini-camp. Fred was well on his well to having a monster season when he was suspended and that was with the Beck/Rex show going on. We clearly disagree on this and that's cool, I just see it playing out completely different than you if we decide to keep Cooley over Davis.

So your condescension and arrogance is still just based on your opinion.

I hope Davis turns things around and has a HOF career, but just b/c he got a bunch of targets from crappy, "pull the trigger" QBs doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.

[Skins57]

I would usually agree with that, but this crazy woman is representing herself as well. As bizarre as this whole thing is, it actually sounded to me like Fred has it pretty well in hand.

not sure that Fred is the one with things well in hand...atleast from the court transcript posted above:)

[Farmer Ted]

Agreed. If Cooley stays healthy Davis won't have the individual numbers he did last year, but the two of them will present a two-headed TE monster that will be tough for defenses to match up with. Depth and talent at that position is a great thing when you have a rookie QB.

I don't see the two-headed TE monster-thing ever happening for those two guys. They've played together for 4 seasons now, and we haven't really seen it happen yet. I don't see why it would suddenly happen this year.

[DaveKShape]

I don't see the two-headed TE monster-thing ever happening for those two guys. They've played together for 4 seasons now, and we haven't really seen it happen yet. I don't see why it would suddenly happen this year.

A lot of it is coaching. In Shanny's first year, I don't think he took advantage with a 2 TE set until about week 15.

[GloryHog]

not sure that Fred is the one with things well in hand...atleast from the court transcript posted above:)

I'm not sure we're interpreting the pertinent facts the same way. Here is the link to the Defendants (Davis') Pretrial filing. I think it's pretty obvious that Fred had some fairly competent legal advise in preparing it. It also seems that there is video evidence that A: Davis did not injure the woman, and she apparently attacked him after he dumped a retaliatory drink on her. She Then got her lip bumped in the fracas. B: She fancies herself a Pimpette. C: She has been banned from at least two other clubs for fighting, and D: She is apparently a major wack job.

My money is still on Davis until I see a ruling in her favor.

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/images/Davis-pretrail-statement.pdf

[cal_junior]

I don't see the two-headed TE monster-thing ever happening for those two guys. They've played together for 4 seasons now, and we haven't really seen it happen yet. I don't see why it would suddenly happen this year.

http://i45.tinypic.com/vovs5l.png

[akhhorus]

I'm not sure we're interpreting the pertinent facts the same way. Here is the link to the Defendants (Davis') Pretrial filing. I think it's pretty obvious that Fred had some fairly competent legal advise in preparing it. It also seems that there is video evidence that A: Davis did not injure the woman, and she apparently attacked him after he dumped a retaliatory drink on her. She Then got her lip bumped in the fracas. B: She fancies herself a Pimpette. C: She has been banned from at least two other clubs for fighting, and D: She is apparently a major wack job.

My money is still on Davis until I see a ruling in her favor.

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/images/Davis-pretrail-statement.pdf

The concerning part of this, for me, about Davis is that he didn't get a lawyer over this as soon as she filed(and how dumb he came off in the transcript). We can argue the merits of the case until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change that Davis is a moron.


http://i45.tinypic.com/vovs5l.png

Lemme know when he becomes Tom Brady lol..

[cal_junior]

Lemme know when he becomes Tom Brady lol..

I'll go with 2014, lol.

I just think the increase in talent at the QB position is enough that we might see something different with the TE production this season. I'm not expecting Gronk/Hernandez, obviously.

[Lacquer Head]

Implying that we need a quarterback of Tom Brady's caliber to properly implement a 2 TE set is kind of ridiculous... Not sure how else to take that comment.

[akhhorus]

I'll go with 2014, lol.

I just think the increase in talent at the QB position is enough that we might see something different with the TE production this season. I'm not expecting Gronk/Hernandez, obviously.

The skins have too much invested in the WR position to do this imo.

Implying that we need a quarterback of Tom Brady's caliber to properly implement a 2 TE set is kind of ridiculous... Not sure how else to take that comment.

The skins could do it with Rex's legless twin sister if they want to, expecting the same(or similar) production as Gronz/Gonzo will require a great Qb and better TEs lol.

[cal_junior]

The skins have too much invested in the WR position to do this imo.

I'm not suggesting anything earth-shattering. I just think that on occasion you might see both of them on the field at the same time. Both guys being healthy (for as long as that is the case) is something they'll attempt to make use every now and then depending on the defense.

[GloryHog]

The concerning part of this, for me, about Davis is that he didn't get a lawyer over this as soon as she filed(and how dumb he came off in the transcript). We can argue the merits of the case until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change that Davis is a moron.




Lemme know when he becomes Tom Brady lol..


Contrary to how it may seem, I'm really not arguing that point. I just happen to think the plaintive is also a moron and she has no case. ;)

[akhhorus]

Contrary to how it may seem, I'm really not arguing that point. I just happen to think the plaintive is also a moron and she has no case. ;)

She's not being paid 5.54 million by any sports team that I root for.

[GloryHog]

She's not being paid 5.54 million by any sports team that I root for.

So? I concede that Davis is a moron. I just don't see how this will have any real impact on the team, (comic re leaf excepted) no matter what the outcome. I can't imagine any possibility he would ever do any time or face suspension over this farce.

[akhhorus]

So? I concede that Davis is a moron. I just don't see how this will have any real impact on the team, (comic re leaf excepted) no matter what the outcome. I can't imagine any possibility he would ever do any time or face suspension over this farce.

I never said that he was in any danger from Goodell. I said that it called into question his judgment and considering the investment he wants from the Skins, this should be a major red flag when it comes time to give him a long term deal. And its not much of an assumption to make that the skins broke off talks with Fred Matlock over a long term deal and continue to refuse to talk seriously with Davis over incidents like this.

[hail2skins]

I'm not suggesting anything earth-shattering. I just think that on occasion you might see both of them on the field at the same time. Both guys being healthy (for as long as that is the case) is something they'll attempt to make use every now and then depending on the defense.If I'm not mistaken, that's already happened but I could be mistaken.

[GloryHog]

I never said that he was in any danger from Goodell. I said that it called into question his judgment and considering the investment he wants from the Skins, this should be a major red flag when it comes time to give him a long term deal. And its not much of an assumption to make that the skins broke off talks with Fred Matlock over a long term deal and continue to refuse to talk seriously with Davis over incidents like this.


A prudent tack at this at this point in time in my opinion as well.

[Emmanouel8]

Did anyone catch "the explanation" on 106.7 the fan this afternoon?

I heard on the radio Freddie explained in detail how he failed the drug tests. Not sure if this was some lame prescription medicine excuse, or a doobie rolling workshop.

[Lacquer Head]

A prudent tack at this at this point in time in my opinion as well.

Somebody changed the Matrix!