Peace has a chance in Middle East...

[Skinzaholic]

... thanks to President Bsh and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein (of which the Democrats are STILL against).


http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=101023


GO FIGURE!:smash:

[Spence]

I think you're on to something here, Kev. Indeed, the fall of Saddam might just bring those three countries together. Of course, it will bring them closer together against us, but when that happens, we can just blame Bill Clinton's penis for it. That usually works.

[Skinzaholic]

Yeah I thought of that... but here is a sister article showing that even a form of democracy is gaining momentum in the region. IAlthough I don't think it will ever become the established form of goverment... nor do I pull the wool over my eyes and believe that we will inherit best of friends with those nations... the truth of the situation is coming forward despite the Democrats vain attempt at distorting it... Our hard work is making positive strides for those people.

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=101027

[rskinsfan10]

If the common denominator for peace between those three were to take Saddam out, then why didn't SA and Iran make their own two country "coalition" and do it themselves?

[Skinzaholic]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
If the common denominator for peace between those three were to take Saddam out, then why didn't SA and Iran make their own two country "coalition" and do it themselves?


Iran spent years trying to do just that. Obviously they were not powerful enough to overcome the regime... and SA didnt have much to offer beyond money. Saddam held a powerful punch in the region (thus our worry when he massed weapons at all). By removing this plague, the door was opened for a new look from those involved... thus.... peace.

[Green-Is-Good]

What are you talking about? Iran has horrible relations with Arab nations.

[BigCountry]

You think invading Iraq and doing whatever kind of "liberation" they think they did will even come close to establishing peace over there. Trust me cause I know this better then anyone, Bush's actions in Iraq and peace in that reigon have nothing to do with eachother.

[Skinzaholic]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
What are you talking about? Iran has horrible relations with Arab nations.


Hey big guy... read the article we are discussing first.

[Skinzaholic]

Originally posted by BigCountry
You think invading Iraq and doing whatever kind of "liberation" they think they did will even come close to establishing peace over there. Trust me cause I know this better then anyone, Bush's actions in Iraq and peace in that reigon have nothing to do with eachother.


There are numerous reports that the Iraqi people actually do feel "liberated"... yet surprisingly they never make the liberal news reports.

Whether or not President Bush ever coupled removing Saddam with peace in the region (which he obviously had both in mind and said it many times) goes against the point.

The point is that the effects of removing Saddam are positive... not negative as the Democratic machine would have everyone believe.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
Iran spent years trying to do just that. Obviously they were not powerful enough to overcome the regime... and SA didnt have much to offer beyond money. Saddam held a powerful punch in the region (thus our worry when he massed weapons at all). By removing this plague, the door was opened for a new look from those involved... thus.... peace.

I will not pretend to know Middle Eastern history, but it appears to me that all hell has broken out in nearly every major country there one time or another except for in SA. There must be something there keeping things relatively quiet other then money. Is it your contention that their military is a bunch of punks compared to the others? I've never heard of Saddam threatening the Saudis. Didn't he shoot Scuds at Israel instead of directly at the Saudi airfields that were the staging grounds for our jet fighters during Desert Storm?

[BigCountry]

Kenny you pretty much reminded me what my point is. The fact that a few people in Iraq are happy doesn't mean jack when you look at the big picture. Sure it helps that Saddam is gone but again, saying it's a step towards peace in the reigon is gross overstatement to say the least and if you really wanna look at which party did the most for peace in the middle east, look no further then the "democratic machine." Under Clinton and the late Prime Minister Rabin, it was far from perfect but it was relatively better then what's going on, and let's not forget the treaties between Israel and Jordan, and Israel and Egypt.

If your hero Mr. Bush is so great, why isn't he doing anything about the things the Israeli army is doing in the occupied territory? Palastinian people there are being needlesly killed but I guess they need to build a couple of oil wells in in the refugee camps in Ghaza (loaded of course with woman and children) that are being bombed by Israel. I guess he only gives a damn about keeping the peace in the region if it fits his agenda. These things have been going on since the day he was elected and he's done nothing except flap his dirty gums about how awful it is.

I'm not crtiticizing you but I lived this day in and day out for more then half my life so please don't say that what's been going down in Iraq is helping peace in the middle east because there are so many things going on over that make that statement almost rideculous.

[rskinsfan10]

Good points Uri. Glad to here from someone who has "lived" the Middle Eastern life in gaining a more "sensible" perspective of what's really going on over there.

[Skinzaholic]

Fair enough Uri... can't say I have the same perspective as you. BUT... I could quite easily pull out fact after fact that proves the "democratic machine" did squat int he MIddle East... and even did much to hinder peace there due to their short-sighted focus.

Either or... I really hope things do calm down there. I dont see the President as many of you see him and his administration. Cant say he is my hero (my hero was an Israelite)... but I do see more positives in his gutsy decisions then anything Bill Clinton ever dreamed of doing.

[Skins57]

I am not knowlewdgeable on this subject but I remember Clinton was to have come the closest to getting Arafat and Sharon to sign a peace agreement, which Arafat pulled out very late in the deal

[Spence]

Invading Iraq is going to bring democracy to the Middle East? What nonsense. This is just a neocon fantasy, which has gone up in the smoke of those missiles which hit the Al-Rashid Hotel over the weekend.

We make it possible for that regime in Saudi Arabia to exist. Us. We buy their oil and they turn that oil into blood money for Osama Bin Laden. We're not going to force democracy or anything else on the Saudis--not until we take greater control of our energy supplies. Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is like the relationship between a drug dealer and a junkie. We're the junky. And guess what: Junkies don't force their dealers to do anything.

That's the place to go if you want to do something about terrorism, however. 15 of the 19 9/11/01 hijackers were Saudi Arabian. None were Iraqi. If we wanted to stop terrorism, we'd have invaded Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. Instead, we protect Saudi Arabia and its terror-exporting regime. We have troops there to defend it and American companies with close ties to the Pentagon provide personal protection [like a Praetorian Guard] to the Saudi royal family.

How many more American soldiers died today in Iraq?

[Skinzaholic]

All vital points... and I really can't argue with your point of view. But as in all things, a little truth doesn't make the overall argument valid. Perhaps in the end of this mess things will be a bit more clear.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Spence
That's the place to go if you want to do something about terrorism, however. 15 of the 19 9/11/01 hijackers were Saudi Arabian. None were Iraqi. If we wanted to stop terrorism, we'd have invaded Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. Instead, we protect Saudi Arabia and its terror-exporting regime. We have troops there to defend it and American companies with close ties to the Pentagon provide personal protection [like a Praetorian Guard] to the Saudi royal family.

How many more American soldiers died today in Iraq?

Amen. The friggin Bush people know this was mis-planned, they aren't stupid. This was an ill-conceived mission, thinking if you take Saddam Hussein out, you bring Middle East peace???? Please. Half the pro-Palestinian groups don't even like Hussein.

This was mis-planned and mis-managed in a big way. Thinking that oru form and style of government will work worldwide is just as bad as pushing one religion on all nations. It won't happen. Many countries simply can not sustain democracy.

Way I see it, this was purely simple, this was about oil, this was about getting rid of a Dictator, that Daddy failed to do, and this was abotu bringing our democratic beliefs (more liek USA control) over a nation to support uSA bases and military troops so we could relieve Saudia Arabia of that task. This is not rocket science.

The only thing wrong with the Bush plan....he decalred victory too soon. While he was aboard US ships declaring the end of the war, Al Queda and Baathists were planning the beginning of their war, why? Because, once again, we underestimated their resolve.