Should we sit Ramsey? [Archive] - hailRedskins.com Fan Board

Yudolindo

11-02-2003, 08:05 PM

No, you don’t sit him. He has no time in the pocket because of atrocious blocking, so our sputtering offense I don’t think is entirely on him. Plus, most of the time I think he is the only player that shows up, let alone wants to win: what does that say about a team when it benches that player? Anyone else notice how when he has a little bit of time, he makes plays? How about Spurrier, doing…oh what was that job he gets paid five million a year for…ummm…oh yeah nearly forgot, how about Spurrier coaching us up a competent oline so we can see what Ramsey and our talented WRs can do.

GolfFreak

11-02-2003, 08:06 PM

Ramsey is our QB now and for the future ... can you imagine what benching him would do to his mindset? We would we putting the entire blame on him for this mess, when I don't think he deserves any (well maybe a little, but only for sacks - not for losing).

The only way I see benching him is for his health, not for his poor play.

PennSkinsFan

11-02-2003, 08:33 PM

I would rather bench him, keep him healthy for a new coach next season, a coach that will use the kids guts, poise and arm. If we don't, i fear he will have a broken hand or wrist soon.

rskinsfan10

11-02-2003, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by benjamce
Ramsey is our QB now and for the future ... can you imagine what benching him would do to his mindset?

I have to disagree with this. Quincy Carter seems to have adjusted to his benching last year rather well.

Skins57

11-02-2003, 09:09 PM

I thought with 5 minutes to go, we should have benched him, just to keep him alive. He is a tough kid and maybe too tough as he doesn't know when to quit.
I love this kid, and he has more than enough smarts for this game. I think SS is the one who doesn't

Hasselbeck did show a decent arm and made a nice pass

Emmanouel8

11-02-2003, 09:10 PM

I'll back RichardBradley on his no brains comment (a little overstated but...). I think me and RB are witnessing Ramsey walking into a wall over and over again. He needs to simply get rid of it short or long. He just stares way down field like he has an hour to throw. You have to play smarter than that you're taking a beating for crying outloud, learn.

Emmanouel8

11-02-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Skins57

Hasselbeck did show a decent arm and made a nice pass

All Hasselback did was realize he had to make his throw fast and he did. It helped that his WR were burners too big time personnell upgrade PJ you're the man.

hail2skins

11-02-2003, 09:16 PM

These Ramsey has no brains comments are just baffling to me. Can you please explain why you consider him dumb?

Skins57

11-02-2003, 09:18 PM

I agree, Ram has never been called anything but smart. He might be a little stubbirn trying to make a play

Emmanouel8

11-02-2003, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by hail2skins
These Ramsey has no brains comments are just baffling to me. Can you please explain why you consider him dumb?

I thought I already did, and I never said dumb...

I think me and RB are witnessing Ramsey walking into a wall over and over again. He needs to simply get rid of it short or long. He just stares way down field like he has an hour to throw. You have to play smarter than that you're taking a beating for crying outloud, learn.

Simply put how many times does Ramsey need to get hit to learn he has to get rid of it sooner? Hassellback didn't need any hits to get rid of it and find open receivers. Ramsey does this and he will progress if he doesn't he will be hospitilized for not adapting.

JoeDaSchmoe

11-02-2003, 10:16 PM

Ramsey has shown in flashed that he can get rid of it quickly if need be. I think that it's only been flashes because Spurrier is calling too many plays that take too much time. Again, I'll make a Spurrier/Martz comparison for this. When Warner was completely floundering in the beginning of the season, Martz was still running the ultra-complex system of 1999. When Bulger came in, he dumbed it down and everything looked a lot better. It's not because Bulger's better than Warner by leaps and bounds. It's because he simplified what was going on. I think that's the same thing that happened with Hasselbeck.

JoeDaSchmoe

11-02-2003, 10:21 PM

PennSkinsFan

11-02-2003, 10:47 PM

Hasselbeck caught a Defense off guard. If he would have stayed on a few more plays, #87 would have been next behind the Center

Emmanouel8

11-02-2003, 11:15 PM

I disagree PSF. His timing was different.

63redskins

11-02-2003, 11:37 PM

I AGREE.....HUGE HEART!!! BUT I ALSO FEAR THE WORST IF WE
CONTINUE TO LET HIM GET BEAT UP. THERE WERE FLASHES OF WHAT HE COULD BE GIVEN EVEN 4 SECONDS THIS AFTERNOON.
THIS KID WILL BE A TOP TEN QB (IF HE CAN SURVIVE)....JUST A NOTE PATRICK, TAKE YOUR O-LINE TO DINNER AND MAYBE GIVE THEM SOME GIFTS OR SOMETHING! THEY ALMOST SEEM TO LIKE TO SEE YOU FLATTENED.

..........OH YEAH, NICE "LOOKOUT" BLOCKS ON EVERY BLITZ GUYS!
THE POSITION OF RUNNING BACK DOES INCLUDE MORE THAN JUST THOSE PLAYS IN WHICH YOU ARE GIVEN THE BALL!!!!!

NCskinsfanatic

11-02-2003, 11:55 PM

No we should sit SS and his whole friggin staff and hire a GM and a new coach.Ramsey is our future,he is just as good as anyone drafted ahead of him last year.He hasnt played in a full season and is being asked to carry a team with little heart,no running game and constant pressure through blown assignments as well as indecision on his part.With the latter to be expected with the constant pounding he takes.

WRSK1NS

11-03-2003, 06:00 AM

I think it would help tremendously if they move Ramsey around some. It is easy for the Defense to key in on his address because they know right where he will be. If you stand their like a statue you can bet your gonna get covered in pigeon poop! Move around some for goodness sake!

xoffenda

11-03-2003, 07:51 AM

Ramsey is doing the best he can. I personally respect him so much more because of the heart he shows out there. If everyone else on the team played with that much heart we could be sittin pretty right now. Heart can win games, just look at the Eagles the last couple years. The differance is thier whole team plays with it. If anyone needs to be benched it SS. Just myopinion

Patrick

11-03-2003, 08:25 AM

Well at this point in the poll its 2 for benching, 19 NO's, and 1 I don't know. Hmmmmmmm .

Now lets review - Ramsey was 16/30, 147 yards, 2 TDS, and a TPC. He was sacked 4 times (once for holding on to the ball to long). ......... Yep, this kid has no brains and is not smart enough to grasp this offense. ............. GMAFB!

The only thing I question about Patrick's intellegence is WHY he hasn't walk off the field and SMACKED SS upside his thick skull. .....The "NOT so SMART ONE" is on the sidelines calling the plays .... AND THAT'S A FACT!!!!

Green-Is-Good

11-03-2003, 12:18 PM

No.

jporterweb

11-03-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Patrick
Well at this point in the poll its 2 for benching, 19 NO's, and 1 I don't know. Hmmmmmmm .

Now lets review - Ramsey was 16/30, 147 yards, 2 TDS, and a TPC. He was sacked 4 times (once for holding on to the ball to long). ......... Yep, this kid has no brains and is not smart enough to grasp this offense. ............. GMAFB!

The only thing I question about Patrick's intellegence is WHY he hasn't walk off the field and SMACKED SS upside his thick skull. .....The "NOT so SMART ONE" is on the sidelines calling the plays .... AND THAT'S A FACT!!!!

All I can say is Hell YES! HELL F**KING YES!!!

NCskinsfanatic

11-03-2003, 02:45 PM

I just dont get all this PR holds on to the ball to long do you guys that think that factor in route running,play calling,schemes,lack of effort by lineman/backs blocking?It just isnt a very logical conclusion to make.

Apache

11-03-2003, 02:54 PM

I think he should be benched to save him from getting killed. I hope he will be our Troy Aikman of the Skins and that might be the only way we can protect him is to let him heal until we can get a coach who has the mentality to make the players protect him.

Emmanouel8

11-03-2003, 03:01 PM

NC the only illogical ones are you naysayers. Of course I've factored in all those things. You guy's illogically think many problems are due to one thing, Spurrier. That's what most of the logic you guy's point too as a solution. Why can't all of our problems be a result of many different things that need to be addressed?

Route running of course is considered yes. There's a short route on most plays but Ramsey hasn't shown any consistency throwing to the checkdown and this has been the case since last year. Who's to blame Spurrier for having a 1st year Qb that everybody in here acts like he's been playing in the league for a decade and can do no wrong? Ramsey for being a young Qb? I'd say a little of both that's why we need to give time to Spurrier, 3 years, AND.... teach Ramsey to be less stubborn by benching him a just a little while to get the message across.

Play calling is considered but who can you blame when there's so many intangibles? Just the coach?! What about the players who don't execute?

Effort by lineman is SIMPLE! Our lineman are not that good period!!! They get manhandled and cannot grasp pass protecting nuances. They get pushed around like children!

Minnesota Mike

11-03-2003, 03:28 PM

I said "Yes" he should be benched. But I said it only for his own personal safety. He is without a doubt the right guy for the job of QB, but the OLine can't protect him.

As far as the holding the "ball too long" claims - it looks to me that taking the snap from the center constitutes holding the ball too long in this offense.

I think each of the OLine players should take turns taking snaps (and taking the hits that follow immediately thereafter), just to get a flavor of what they are putting Ramsey through.

If I was his agent I would tell him to refuse to step on that field until they figure out how to protect him. The way things are going his career is one play away from being over.

Monk81

11-03-2003, 04:47 PM

I voted yes to sit because it may save his career if he hets benched until we get a real coach in here.

I have said it again and again Max protection is bringing in extra lineman to help protect. watch Tampa Bay they do it all the time our top 3 WR's should be able to get open on short routes so why must we send everyone out time and time again and watch Ramsey get killed.

If keyshawn and Keenan can make it work I know Coles Gardner and McCants can

johnnymack56

11-03-2003, 08:23 PM

no way should Ramsey be benched!! if he was in the right system, we'd be talking pro bowl for him. he has the heart of Brett Favre and a better arm. if we are to go anywhere in the next 5 years, he has to be our qb!! if not him, bring back babe laufenberg!!!

NCskinsfanatic

11-03-2003, 10:28 PM

E8 I'm pretty sure i have and always been a redskins fan.With that being said I'm sure that we can both agree that we are very passionate in regards to our skins.I am not nor i ever will be a "naysayer".If you have read any of my posts up to this point i have supported SS.It's just as many loyal fans here have suggested SS is not protecting his qb.He has no hot reads,poor line play,no consistent running threat,and no explenation for it.I think this sounds like Dallas last year in some regards what's different in that equation?QC in one offseason went from hopeless to a franchise qb?They turned it over 4 times and it didnt matter.They put in their backup d-line in the second half.You are entilted to your opinion just as I and others are to ours.I dont believe that just b/c we, along with a lot of football players and analysts,believe that this isnt going to work.PR is playing well for a 2nd year qb and mistakes are expected.We actually agree that their should be more responsibility on certain players.But for me the under lying factor is that SS has no answers,he isnt able to win with talent that many agree is more than adequate to be competetive.And I truly believe his team has no faith in him or his scheme.Therefore it doesnt matter if his system "could'work or not.If your players dont believe in the coach it isnt going to happen now or next year.I would love nothing more than for you to be right actually.I am tired of the turnover but we won 3 with PR playing ell his game has changed b/cteams have figured out how to disguise plays and then switch when it's too late to audible.Is ramsey young?yes.Did Schotty win 8 games in 1 year w/george/banks/graham?yes?you would have us believe that we would have won our first three with one of those guys instead of our slow 2nd year qb.a lot of coaches do more with less in less time and their players dont generally regress across the board in the process.If you are a manager you are responsible for your staff,if you are a supervisor/coach/foreman/ etc.,youre crew always has and always will be a direct reflection on you.This is what I hold SS accountable for call me what you will.

Emmanouel8

11-03-2003, 11:34 PM

NC I just want Spurrier one more offseason to put it together. He hasn't been stellar so far I admit, but an offseason is the only legit time to get perspective for the guy to put his experience all together. Not only that but we can address some personnell too to get the execution goin the way he wants it.

IMO the defense will be unbelievable if we can get 2 studs plugged in there and it's very possible we will. Offensively we have to do something about Samuels and Dockery. I'm willing to give Dockery another year but Samuels is a huge cap killer and is barely performing above a league min player something drastic has to be done w/ him.

One more round of coaching changes and I'll absolutely lose it. I can't take it anymore and we catered to Spurrier by trading Davis away, the ultimate killer. That sacrifice alone warrants a 3 year minimum for Spurrier.

Spearfeather

11-04-2003, 12:14 AM

Why would you bench him?

IowaSkinsFan

11-04-2003, 12:37 AM

For his own safety, Yes.

For the good of the team, No.

roberro

11-04-2003, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by robert11273
For his own safety, Yes.

For the good of the team, No.

If the Redskins continue on the path they are on as regards QB protection, Patrick Ramsey WILL suffer a career-ending injury and the NFL will be denied a potential Hall of famer.

LuvSkins17

11-04-2003, 03:48 AM

I had to say no to this one. If he is benched and they go with Hassellbeck Spurrier will have to simplify the offense because he won't learn "half" of what Ramsey knows by the end of the season. If SS has to simplify the system to not get Hassellbeck killed, then why not do it for Ramsey? He is stubborn and thinks that this thing is all about his system.

If we were winning, I would have no complaints but we aren't so I do. How many of us think that we could call a better game? I know I feel I could. I don't have a "scheme", I am about the number of points on the board at the end of the game. To tell the truth, the Ole Ball Coach is starting to make me mad...... I think his wife may need to talk with him,..............ya know,............like all of the presidents wives did. Then..........

he will change. lol

Patrick

11-04-2003, 07:55 AM

I'm calm today. ........... IF Patrick was playing bad this would be a point well taken - He is NOT playing bad. IF you thought he was going to be perfect, YOU were exspecting far too much. He's developing into a very good QB. Putting him on the bench at this point, is not going to help him, this team, or speed up his development. ......... Football is a tough violent sport and everyone needs to take their lumps (some more than others). Ramsey is a very tough kid, he'll be OK. Spurrier knows he has to get him protection, it just a matter of how and still make his system work. ....... Things change this week (one way or another), I'll bet you.

NCskinsfanatic

11-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
NC I just want Spurrier one more offseason to put it together. He hasn't been stellar so far I admit, but an offseason is the only legit time to get perspective for the guy to put his experience all together. Not only that but we can address some personnell too to get the execution goin the way he wants it.

IMO the defense will be unbelievable if we can get 2 studs plugged in there and it's very possible we will. Offensively we have to do something about Samuels and Dockery. I'm willing to give Dockery another year but Samuels is a huge cap killer and is barely performing above a league min player something drastic has to be done w/ him.

One more round of coaching changes and I'll absolutely lose it. I can't take it anymore and we catered to Spurrier by trading Davis away, the ultimate killer. That sacrifice alone warrants a 3 year minimum for Spurrier. Thats cool E8.As i said we actually agree on more than you think.I would love for SS to make it work.I would gladly line up and take my "i told you so"in stride.But he cannot quit trying,or continue w/"we are what we are".There are player issues and i think thats true on many teams.Bruce,Samuels,and a few others in my mind have given up on SS and this system.There is plenty of blame to go around.what concerns me is we finally have a young franchise type qb and SS has no regard for his safety b/c it clashes with him being able to chuck it 65% of the time w/long routes and 5 wr sets.If he stays another year and doesnt have the players support or make any progress in the win colum,we will only have 1 year left on the 3 year plan.We would then be starting over w/o much of the talent we have here now.That to me is worth giving him the boot at the end of the year if he doesnt atleast go4-4 from here on out,and regain his players confidence.

DallasSux

11-04-2003, 11:02 AM

he shouldnt be benched. he is playing great all he needs is protection.

skins74

11-04-2003, 11:04 AM

Just hand the ball to Rock every down.

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 12:23 PM

When I say bench him I only mean for a little ,1/2-1 game, not the rest of the season. I think it would be a good chance for him to get some perspective.

dj_stouty

11-04-2003, 12:23 PM

No...No...No.

Ramsey needs the experience. I'm not prepared to give the season away to an NFL backup with 2 career throws.

The bottom line is this: You bench people because they underperform. People like Ramsey LIVE to play football. You don't sit one of the few guys who are playing their hearts out week in and week out. Sure...he could throw the ball quicker...or even out of bounds some times, but the bottom line is that despite our 3-5 record, Ramsey is still one of our top performers.

Quincy Carter was underperforming last year. He sat on the bench, and learning some things, and made the adjustments to be successfull as a starter.

You don't bench the guy who plays well. If you do, you are simply destroying his confidence.

jsarno

11-04-2003, 12:24 PM

benching Ramsey is not the answer. He still needs to get NFL experience, and like it or not, these hits will help that progression. But most important, you don't put a band aid over an area that is not bleeding. QB is not the problem. The O-Line is. So fire the O-Line coach NOW, and hire Joe Jacoby or some ex hog. That's the only way to fix this problem.

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 12:33 PM

Ramsey's not going to die if he sits a little, but he might if he doesn't. I've noticed the kid is jumpy too, he's not relaxed. I've noticed as much everytime the back-up comes in you see a more relaxed Qb and team. Benching can be a motivational tool. I'm rooting for Ramsey to succeed but if I were coach that's how I'd do it.

jsarno

11-04-2003, 12:40 PM

kid has to learn how to handle attackers...sitting him won't help that.
Being young, sitting hm may affect his self confidence, if so, you're doing more damage than a broken bone.

Benching him for a guy that has been with the team one week is moronic and in no way "motivational". What do you think that tell the team?
Again, you don't band aid an area that's not bleeding. We need to fix the problem areas, and Ramsey is not a problem.

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 03:23 PM

Jsarno, newsflash Ramsey is not perfect. He's young and still needs to be coached. Although there are problems elsewhere you still have to address this one. I'm rooting for Ramsey's to succeed I'm just giving my opinion on what I think he needs and how I would address it at this point.

Jsarno it's not 'moronic.' I'm holding back w/ all my being not to give you another verbal lashing BTW. I'm not telling the team anything by benching Ramsey, I'm telling Ramsey something. Besides I'm sure whatever message you think I'm trying to send to the team, it can't get them to play any worse maybe even better. The season is all but mathematically over.

Ramsey has not learned to get rid of the ball sooner being out there, IMO he doesn't stay poised and he's not learned to do so getting the beating he's taken. Spurrier has said Ramsey holds on to the ball too long himself weeks ago, I'm sure he's tried to tell the guy to cut it loose but Ramsey is not responding.

By saying he has to 'learn how to handle attackers' you admit he needs to get rid of the ball. So explain to me how he's progressed any in the last few weeks in that area? He hasn't! It's time for a different approach, benching has been used since the moment the 1st football was ever snapped!

jsarno

11-04-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
Jsarno, newsflash Ramsey is not perfect. He's young and still needs to be coached. Although there are problems elsewhere you still have to address this one. I'm rooting for Ramsey's to succeed I'm just giving my opinion on what I think he needs and how I would address it at this point.

Who said he was perfect?

Jsarno it's not 'moronic.' I'm holding back w/ all my being not to give you another verbal lashing BTW.

I'm not calling you moronic, I'm calling the idea of letting a man that has been with the team ONE WEEK lead the Skins, moronic. You don't think so? Tim "no experience" Hassleback is your man because Ramsey is taking too many hits? Come on man, you've had some opinions in the past that I haven't agreed with, but at least they could make some sense, but this one makes NO sense. You don't bench a young QB that is learning the ropes or being an NFL qb for a guy they just hired on a whim.
I'd be more inclined to agree with you IF we still had Johnson...at least that guy had NFL experience. But there is no good that could come out of benching Ramsey right now.

The season is all but mathematically over.

Already throwing in the towel eh? Can't say I blame you the way we are playing, but you never know. When we were 0-5 to start the Shottenhiemer "error", no one expected us to come back with 5 straight wins. But we did it. Something might happen. We have a lot of talent, and anything can happen when you have talent.

By saying he has to 'learn how to handle attackers' you admit he needs to get rid of the ball. So explain to me how he's progressed any in the last few weeks in that area? He hasn't! It's time for a different approach, benching has been used since the moment the 1st football was ever snapped!

Yes, he has held on to the ball too long at times...but other times he has 1.3 seconds to let it go or he's on the ground. GIVE ANY QB TIME AND THEN JUDGE HIM. Ramsey has not been givin what every qb should be given at some point...TIME.
(by the way...speaking of progression...he threw 2 tds and no int's vs the cowboys, had he forced a few that would have changed.)

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 03:59 PM

Again, you don't band aid an area that's not bleeding. We need to fix the problem areas, and Ramsey is not a problem.

What does this quote say? Ramsey's not a problem, we need to fix the problem areas. You didn't say perfect but you said he doesn't need fixing which is close enough.

Again the idea is not 'moronic.' Hasselback has been in the league for a while, he has played college football for 4 years, he has not been playing football for only a week. Rookie Qbs have played w/ as much experience in a system. He can get ready in time for the game after next to play if he has to. How much worse can the offense get anyway? It's already bad!

The season is pretty much over short of a miracle. I'd like to see it happen but I'm not holding breath for another 5-0 run.

When I said progress I only meant in evaluating getting rid of the ball sooner.

jsarno

11-04-2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
What does this quote say? Ramsey's not a problem, we need to fix the problem areas. You didn't say perfect but you said he doesn't need fixing which is close enough.

the GLARING problem is the protection. We he had a little protection he was throwing for 300 yards a game...he has NOTHING...not even 3 seconds and his totals have dropped dramatically. The problem is NOT the QB...it's the protection.

Again the idea is not 'moronic.' Hasselback has been in the league for a while, he has played college football for 4 years, he has not been playing football for only a week.

He's been playing REDSKINS FOOTBALL for only 1 week. We all know systems are tough to learn. It took ramsey over half a season to learn it. You expect and inferior QBto learn it in one week? With no snaps?

Rookie Qbs have played w/ as much experience in a system. He can get ready in time for the game after next to play if he has to. How much worse can the offense get anyway? It's already bad!

Name me ONE rookie qb that has. Once drafted (in APRIL) they have 5 months before the season starts. They learn that playbook every day.
Even if A qb is traded, they have experience actually throwing the ball...hasselbeck has none. But I would still like you to name me one qb (especially rookie) that has had ONE WEEK and only ONE WEEK of preparation before taking over a team. That enough to get any coach fired. It's one thing if it's by default and injury, it's another to doit willingly.

this season is pretty much over short of a miracle. I'd like to see it happen but I'm not holding breath for another 5-0 run.

I'm not holding my breath either...but that's because I now believe Spurrier is complete flop and can't coach in the NFL. Jujst like Rick Patino (GREAT COLLEGE COACH) couldn't do SQUAT in the NBA. Some coached just can't make the jump.

When I said progress I only meant in evaluating getting rid of the ball sooner.

I'd like to see that happen too, but we can't blame Ramsey for something that is 99.9% the offensive line's fault.

jsarno

11-04-2003, 04:25 PM

Oh, and by the way...all rookies that are given the riens are usually high draft picks. Tim was an undrafted free agent. This is his 4th team (Buffalo, Baltimore, Phily, and now Skins.) but has only 1 attempt. (On sunday) How does he know how to win in the NFL, or at worst even our meezly playbook. He is an emergency ONLY qb unless we are content on losing (in which case Spurrier needs to be fired today)

roberro

11-04-2003, 04:28 PM

JSARNO and E-8: you guys have a great dialogue going. Would you consider going to the," Who are you" thread so the rest of us could get some idea of who you guys are? Just curious.

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 04:32 PM

Roberro thanks, I think your overrating jsarno's dialogue though :D.

jsarno

11-04-2003, 04:33 PM

DITTO on E-8 :D

jsarno

11-04-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
Rookie Qbs have played w/ as much experience in a system.

Still waiting for you to substantiate this with fact or recant.

Emmanouel8

11-04-2003, 04:40 PM

I said w/ 'as much' experience. I don't mean exact. Still I'm sure you can find a hold out Qb somewhere who got a start pretty early. Point is, how much worse can it get w/ Hasselback taking the hits instead of Ramsey?

At least there's a chance Ramsey can come out of it a better Qb. Competitive people get very motivated watching someone else do there job. Benching may or may not be the solution I don't know but I'd try it and not worry about losing. Ramsey is young enough to handle being benched a little. All my humble opinion.