This is what our troops face

[Spence]

November 27, 2003
Attacks on G.I.'s in Mosul Rise as Good Will Fades
By DEXTER FILKINS

OSUL, Iraq, Nov. 26 — Since the Americans came to town seven months ago, the firefighters in this northern Iraqi city have gotten new trucks and new uniforms, American training and salaries 10 times larger than they used to be.

But when word came Sunday afternoon that two American soldiers had been shot in the head and killed a block away, the men of Ras al Jada fire station ran to the site and looked on with glee as a crowd of locals dragged the Americans from their car and tore off their watches and jackets and boots.

"I was happy, everyone was happy," Waadallah Muhammad, one of the firefighters, said as he stood in front of the firehouse. "The Americans, yes, they do good things, but only to enhance their reputation. They are occupiers. We want them to leave."

Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/27/international/middleeast/27MOSU.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=)

The Bush admin said the Iraqi people would welcome our troops with flowers and sweets. What happened to that? Now, the best Mr Bush can say about the attacks is: "Bring 'em on." He spent the Vietnam War hanging out with his frat brothers, smoking dope, getting drunk and going AWOL after valiantly defending the skies of Texas from the Vietcong and now all he can say is "Bring 'em on."

What a smarmy twerp.

[Skinzaholic]

Please... spare the insult toward the Democrats by bringing up Bush's actions when he was younger during the Vietnam War... or did you forget that Bill Clinton is a Democrat?

Every good Republican would jump all over this chance.

[Skinzaholic]

Dave... I am going to close my eyes and hope that when I open them, the obviously slanted comment you just made will be gone.

Not ALL the people who live in the Middle East act like animals. In fact... more American act like animals in the long run. These people are taught a lie and it consumes them. They are only acting out of that mindset. I am certain there are ALOT of good people over there who we will never hear about.

To say they are not civil nor human is... well... stupid.

[circumstance]

Clinton 'evaded' the draft through a Rhodes Scholarship, a remarkable opportunity and a tremendous reward for years of thorough academic success. You can't just get a Rhodes Scholarship like you can a plane ticket, and accepting the Rhodes Scholarship and consequently going to England is hardly synonymous with 'fleeing' the country. To view his taking advantage of the scholarship, which, mind you, very few American students get each year, as his 'dodging' the draft is too simplistic of a reduction. The Rhodes Scholarship is probably the most prestigious award granted to a college graduate. It was the culmination of everything he had been working towards as a student and shouldn't be viewed as cowardly, but as commendable. My father didn't go to Vietnam because he was in medical school--the obvious culmination of years of academic diligence and struggle. Is that draft dodging too?

Bush backed out of the war by first getting a cushy assignment to the Air National Guard in Texas (care of Dad) and then by simply not showing up to fulfill his duty. He walked away and didn't come back for six months. Please, will "every good Republican" tell me how that compares or is somehow on par with Clinton's 'dodging'?

[BigCountry]

I didn't know I belonged to a pack of wolves. Oh wait, your prejudice statement is directed only to the arabs isn't it? I strongly suggest you go to places like Jordan and Egypt (Just a small example) before you condem an entire people and region which I grew up in before say things like that.

[Skinzaholic]

Before anyone reading this thread gets confused... mine and Big Country's last posts were directed toward an inappropriate post which has been deleted due to it's insensative nature.

[PennSkinsFan]

Yes. Sorry for not explaining my removal of a post. Thanks Kev.

[Spence]

Soldier suicides in Iraq increase


Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A U.S. commander warned troops Thursday to watch their friends because suicides were on the rise.

"Check on your buddy," Lt. Col. Harry Nantz told soldiers Thursday, urging them to be vigilant for signs of depression.

Since April, at least 17 Americans -- 15 Army soldiers and two Marines -- have taken their own lives in Iraq, the military said. At least two dozen noncombat deaths, some possible suicides, are under investigation, according to a review of Army casualty reports.

The military sent a 12-person mental health team to Iraq to see what can be done to help troops cope with anxiety and depression. The team completed its mission and is expected to make recommendations soon.

Underscoring the continuing violence, a U.S. military convoy came under attack Thursday on the main highway west of Baghdad near the town of Abu Ghraib, witnesses said. A cameraman filmed two flatbed military trucks abandoned with cabs ablaze as dozens of townspeople looted tires and parts. The military had no information.

In the northern city of Mosul, unidentified gunmen shot dead an Iraqi police sergeant, Brig. Gen. Muwaffaq Mohammed said.

On the political front, U.S.-led efforts to transfer power to a transitional Iraqi government ran up against a major obstacle after key figures in the powerful Shiite Muslim leadership criticized the handover blueprint -- and the Kurdish president of the U.S.-picked Iraqi Governing Council said he agreed with the criticism.

Iraq's most influential Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Husseini al-Sistani, objected the plan's call for electing a transitional legislature from regional caucuses. Instead, he demanded a transitional legislature that would be elected directly.

Jalal Talabani, who signed the plan as head of the Iraqi Governing Council on Nov. 15, traveled to Najaf to meet al-Sistani, and said he thought the cleric's views were "logical and reasonable."

Talabani planned to discuss them with his colleagues on the council and the U.S.-led coalition, he said.

[RedskinsDave]

I apologize for my post. I'm just tired of people who we free (Kuwait, Iraq) getting joy out of our guys being killed.

[Skinzaholic]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
I apologize for my post. I'm just tired of people who we free (Kuwait, Iraq) getting joy out of our guys being killed.

Dave... many people feel that way... but we just have to avoid labelling them all in one big bunch... there are bad people everywhere, in every country... doesn't make the entire group bad or rotten... just a few bad apples that need to be thrown away.

[C-7]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
I apologize for my post. I'm just tired of people who we free (Kuwait, Iraq) getting joy out of our guys being killed.


Please. And I am tired of hearing about how the U.S. is on a quest to free the world. As to freedom in Iraq, I hardly believe it is there, nor do I blieve that was your government's intention at all; even though that is what they proclaim.

The only this the U.S. has done is birng more misery into that poor country, their own, and the rest of the world as well. I am really sorry for sayin this ( becuase I have lived in the U.S. myself and truly believe that it's people are good, hard working and honest) but I must: the entire world would be a sefer place if the U.S. government really defended what they say they do.

[RedskinsDave]

Where are you from? Without knowing I can tell you that it's real easy for other countries to sit there and say the U.S. should stay out of things when the first time anything starts to stir anywhere in the world, who do you all come to? That's right, the U.S. We are forever in a lose-lose situation because we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I would be more than happy to pull our guys out of every other place and let you other countries run roughshod over one another but that's not happening.

[C-7]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Where are you from? Without knowing I can tell you that it's real easy for other countries to sit there and say the U.S. should stay out of things when the first time anything starts to stir anywhere in the world, who do you all come to? That's right, the U.S. We are forever in a lose-lose situation because we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I would be more than happy to pull our guys out of every other place and let you other countries run roughshod over one another but that's not happening.

I am from Uruguay, South America. A country oppresed by dictatorship for 10 years, a dictaorship supported by the U.S.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally posted by Canibal-7
I am from Uruguay, South America. A country oppresed by dictatorship for 10 years, a dictaorship supported by the U.S.

What, do you want us to come in a help set up a democracy? Ha!

[C-7]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
What, do you want us to come in a help set up a democracy? Ha!

That's not very funny, considering the tortures and deaths caused by these events that, thank God, are in the past. The U.S. came in and helped set up the dictaorship. I bet they didn't teach you that part of history in high school.

[Spence]

Originally posted by Canibal-7
That's not very funny, considering the tortures and deaths caused by these events that, thank God, are in the past. The U.S. came in and helped set up the dictaorship. I bet they didn't teach you that part of history in high school. Some of us know about that, Canibal-7, are are not proud. The record of my government in Latin America is pretty dismal.