I must've missed alot of games

[RedskinsDave]

and a season here or there too because I missed all the Super Bowls and MVP's that Michael Vick has won.

[Spence]

They're a-comin'!

[RedskinsDave]

Great, can we wait until then to appoint him the second coming?

[Spence]

Dude, the Falcons were 2-10 going into that game. What else could ESPN do but hype the return of Vick? How else do you sell that game?

[RedskinsDave]

Oh I know regarding ESPN. I just hate when a guy is hyped before he wins jack.

[Spence]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Oh I know regarding ESPN. I just hate when a guy is hyped before he wins jack. Well, he won a road playoff game in his first year as a starter. And he won it in Green Bay, which no one had ever done before. Not too shabby.

[Skinzaholic]

Vick has raw talent... and lots of it! No reason the NFL world cant get a bit jumpy at that.

[Green-Is-Good]

It sounds like you just have something personal against Vick.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Yeah, it really does.

Anyway, I still fail to see how the guy has failed to live up to the hype so far. He's had one season, and he led an until-tehn mediocre Falcon team into the playoffs, and specifically to a win at Lambeau for the first time in history. He's had one year to live up to his hype, and I'd call that year a success, wouldn't you?

[hail2skins]

They just discussed this issue on PTI with Theismann. They told him they received alot of email from people stating that Theismann crew went overboard with Vick. Joe said they cover the story of the game and Vick was the story. He said those emails probably came from Panther fans.

[CarMike]

I agree with RD on this. By the end of the game I had turned down the sound on the TV. I understand what they were doing, but they did go over board...

[RedskinsDave]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
It sounds like you just have something personal against Vick.

Why, because I want him to justify the hype? Lame argument. FYI, I have him starting for one of my fantasy teams. The kid is a real talent but he's not a hall of famer yet. I get tired of the swooning that Favre gets but at least he's earned it.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Anyway, I still fail to see how the guy has failed to live up to the hype so far. He's had one season,

I stopped the quote there because that nailed it, ONE SEASON. Also anyone that wants to give Vick all the credit for beating Green Bay clearly didn't watch their defense play.

[Green-Is-Good]

This is his third season, Dave. He didn't start his rookie year. He didn't start this year due to his injury. Last year was essentially his rookie season. He got thrown at a pack of wolves. The only offensive weapon the falcons had was warrick Dunn. But he led the team to the postseason. His first game back from his injury, and a different Falcon team shows up. and by the way, Vick came damn close to winning the MVP last year.

[RedskinsDave]

I know how long he's been in the league. He's played one year, that's what both Joe and I were referring to.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Yes, but we're using the same argument to make opposite points. You say he hasn't lived up to the hype. I say that for his only year playing, leading a previously woeful team into Green Bay in January and pulling out a win is pretty damn good. You can't name another quarterback that's done that in the history of the NFL.

[RedskinsDave]

You guys just continue to ignore what the defense did and I'll continue to wait for reality to reach the hype.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Obviously the defense has something to do with it. No team with 32nd-ranked defense has ever done very well. But you could say the same about a lot of other great quarterbacks. Steve McNair has had a superb defense to back him up for years. We all remember Limbaugh's reasoning for McNabb's hype. Tom Brady wouldn't have so many wins if his defense wasn't a scary, scary machine. But let's be honest here. Without Vick, they would not have won at Lambeau, they would not have been in the playoffs, and they would not have even had a winning record.

[Green-Is-Good]

Only two major roster changes were made offseason 2002 by the Falcons. That's signing Warrick Dunn, and Vick being their new starting QB. 5-11, 4-12, 7-9, 9-6-1. Who are you going to attribute that jump to? The former Bills Wade Phillips brought in?

[RedskinsDave]

Joe, did you even watch that game against the Packers? They had a blocked punt for a TD and the defense gave up 7 points, alot due to the fact that Green and Driver were out.

I'm not saying he's not a very good player and certainly that he isn't an amazing athlete. BUT, I don't like when a player, any player, is pre-ordained great before he is.

[Green-Is-Good]

You do not even mention LeBron's name in the Sioux.
He beat GB with timely runs. The one that stands out in my mind is when he escaped KGB's tackle and ran for a first down. My memory is hazy, but I believe that was a 3rd down.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Yes, Dave, I watched all the playoff games, start to finish. But on that same note, I could ask if you even read my previous post.

But let's be honest here. Without Vick, they would not have won at Lambeau, they would not have been in the playoffs, and they would not have even had a winning record.

You might argue differently about Lambeau. That's your choice. It still leaves out the fact that they wouldn't have been therei n the first place without Vick. But please, please, tell me that you believe that team could have won at Lambeau with Doug Johnson at the helm.

[RedskinsDave]

That's great, they wouldn't have won with Johnson, put Vick in the Hall. He was stellar this past weekend.

For the umpteenth time, he may be great someday. Right now, he is still a potentially great player.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I guess leading the Atlanta Falcons to the playoffs and winning at Lambeau in his first year starting is enough proof for me.

[RedskinsDave]

Wow do you ever have low standards for greatness. You may need to have Mrs. Borman define that word for you.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I have no idea what the Borman reference is, but, yes, I suppose if "doing what no QB has ever done before" is a low standard, then you can call me wacky. I think that was proof enough that he'll be great.

[RedskinsDave]

Key words "be great" as in not yet great, as in potential. Fine, talk to me when he's there and only then.

Isn't Borman still teaching English there at BI?

[Green-Is-Good]

Who said he was a hall of famer?