Who cares about an Al Gore endorsement?

[jsarno]

Al Gore endorses Howard Dean for the Democratic Nominee...whooopie freakin dooo. Dean is now endorsed by a liar and whiner.
Wasn't it Al Gore that said he invented the internet among other things? Didn't Al Gore call George W. and concede, only to take it back when things got too close? Wasn't it Al Gore that cried and bitched and moaned so much that the Supreme Court had to tell him to stop the recounts? Wasn't it Al Gore that said he would run again in 2004 to beat Bush out (and not let down his faithful)?
Why exactly would you want to be endorsed by such a mega liar and someone completely untrustworthy?

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
Al Gore endorses Howard Dean for the Democratic Nominee...whooopie freakin dooo. Dean is now endorsed by a liar and whiner.
Wasn't it Al Gore that said he invented the internet among other things? Didn't Al Gore call George W. and concede, only to take it back when things got too close? Wasn't it Al Gore that cried and bitched and moaned so much that the Supreme Court had to tell him to stop the recounts? Wasn't it Al Gore that said he would run again in 2004 to beat Bush out (and not let down his faithful)?
Why exactly would you want to be endorsed by such a mega liar and someone completely untrustworthy? No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. No, Gore did not bitch and moan--at least, no more than Mr Bush did. No, Gore did not say he would run again in 2004.

This is an internal matter for the Democratic party, jsarno. It does not concern you. Instead of getting yourself into a tizzy about what Mr Gore is doing, why don't you spend your time more productively by doing something useful? For example, you could find all those weapons of mass destruction that disgusting liar in the White House said would be all over Iraq.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. No, Gore did not bitch and moan--at least, no more than Mr Bush did. No, Gore did not say he would run again in 2004.

Please check your facts...he DID do all those. Most democrats say that the "internet" thing was just a joke however.

This is an internal matter for the Democratic party, jsarno. It does not concern you. Instead of getting yourself into a tizzy about what Mr Gore is doing, why don't you spend your time more productively by doing something useful? For example, you could find all those weapons of mass destruction that disgusting liar in the White House said would be all over Iraq.

Right back at ya Spence. It's amazing you still gripe about this. I guess 49 countries have it wrong...but little ole you has it right. There is a reason we went to war Spence, and it wasn't from unfounded WMD talk. We've been over this a thousand times, but you still don't get it. (which is why I try to avoid these political threads now, I'm getting tired of hearing ramblings).
So please focus and keep this about Gore.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence

This is an internal matter for the Democratic party, jsarno. It does not concern you.

I forgot to comment on this, sorry.
I am an American, and as such, I can be concerned with ANY Presidential candidate. It concerns all good americans! (especially when the endorsement comes from a liar and a cry baby.)

[Spence]

jsarno, you're usually wrong, but especially now. Gore NEVER said that he invented the Internet. Find the quote. I dare you.

Secondly, WMD was the reason Mr Bush gave us for going to war. It wasn't the real reason, of course, but it was the reason he gave. That's called lying. If you like, I can produce you with numerous quotes from White House officials proclaiming over and over again that WMD was the reason we went to war. I've done it before in this forum and I could very well do it again.

jsarno, you can comment about any candidate you like, but it still does not concern you. Gore had made his endorsement. You think it speaks poorly of Dr Dean that Gore would endorse him. So what? I don't think Dr Dean is counting on getting votes from people like you, jsarno.

[Spence]

Just for the record: Gore's words in a CNN interview, as quoted by Wired News, were as follows:

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."

Gore meaning, obvious to anyone who knew the record, was that he did the political work and articulated the public vision that made the Internet possible. No reasonable person could conclude that Gore was claiming to have invented the Internet in any technical sense. The first half of his sentence makes this clear: he is talking about work he did in the context of his service in the Congress. The creation of the Internet was a process that had several phases and took several years, and Gore is claiming the principal credit for the political side of that effort. It is a substantial claim, but an accurate one. Source (http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.Al.Gore.and.the.Inte1.html)

[higgybaby]

I think that it is seen as more of a joke in political circles, making fun in the way that the quote came out as sounding like he was taking credit for the invention of the internet... come on spence, it is kind of funny. W has his mispronunciations and Al has his embelishments(sp) and miswordings.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by Spence
Just for the record: Source (http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.Al.Gore.and.the.Inte1.html)

Hey Spence, we all know how the "liberal" press takes some poetic license when "quoting" what someone said. Change a word to a synonym here, move some punctuation there, make sure the "quote" is repeated without context, and PRESTO: Al Gore says he invented the Internet! It is a travesty the way the "liberal" press perpetuated the myth of Gore's "exaggerations", a guy who is meticulous in his analysis and choice of words.

I'm not sure if I agree with Gore's endorsement (although I am glad he did not endorse Lieberman) but I suppose it is newsworthy that the guy who AT LEAST carried the popular vote in the last presidential election endorsed a particular candidate, hmmm jsarno?

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by higgybaby
I think that it is seen as more of a joke in political circles, making fun in the way that the quote came out as sounding like he was taking credit for the invention of the internet... come on spence, it is kind of funny. W has his mispronunciations and Al has his embelishments(sp) and miswordings.

Yeah, but the myth took on an air of plausibility through repeated tellings, which I am sure cost him. Heck, there are some here who seriously think that Al Gore was trying to take credit for the invention of the Internet.

[Spence]

Yeah, dukeuch. One of two men in the history of the country to win the popular vote and be denied the White House makes an endorsement. I'd call that news--at least to Democrats. If you're not a Democrat, what do you care?

[NamVet4]

Originally posted by Spence
Yeah, dukeuch. One of two men in the history of the country to win the popular vote and be denied the White House makes an endorsement. I'd call that news--at least to Democrats. If you're not a Democrat, what do you care?

Spence,
Gotta respectfully disagree. I believe every citizen should care. The statements and positions of both parties are important - there still is agreement by compromise in politics? After all, it will be a democrat or republican who is our next President.

just my 2 cents :smash:

[Spence]

Originally posted by NamVet4
The statements and positions of both parties are important - there still is agreement by compromise in politics? There used to be. Not any more. Let me quote from a Salon article by Sidney Blumenthal which I think neatly sums things up for many of us Democrats: Above all, Democrats are consumed with a rising sense of injustice. They believe that democracy was undermined when the votes were not counted in Florida and the Supreme Court made George W. Bush president; that the social contract since the New Deal is being shredded; that the internationalist alliances since World War II are being shattered; that the president systematically and knowingly lied about the reasons for war; that the Bush administration acts with authoritarian impunity (refusing, for example, to make public even the members of Vice President Cheney's energy policy panel); that rules and precedents in the Congress are being wantonly broken for partisan advantage by the Republicans; that the news media is being overwhelmed by the din of a right-wing echo chamber that masks itself as journalism.

In the face of constant provocation, Democrats see their own party as hesitant, compromised (if not complicit) and cowardly. "You're either with us or the terrorists," Bush has repeated many times. Yet, virtually unanimously, the Democrats supported the war in Afghanistan. The vast majority of Democrats in the House and Senate backed the war resolution on Iraq. None of this prevents Bush and the Republicans from challenging their patriotism. As recently as last week, after Sen. Hillary Clinton, who voted for the Iraq war, returned from an inspection tour of Afghanistan and Iraq as a member of the Armed Services Committee, a Republican Party flunky and longtime Bush family retainer named Scott Reed was trotted out to smear the former first lady as "un-American" when she called for more troops and international support.
...
Al Gore's endorsement of Dean is the most important since grainy film was shown at the 1992 Democratic convention depicting President John F. Kennedy shaking hands with an eager teenage Bill Clinton. Gore's endorsement is not the passing of the torch to a new generation, but another conferring of legitimacy. For Democrats, he personifies the infamy of the last election. He is not another politician, but the rightfully elected president -- by a popular majority of 539,895 votes. This is how many Democrats feel, NamVet, and we're not interested in whether or not people like jsarno approve of Al Gore or our party.

Something has changed in this country and it has changed for the worse. Attacking Hillary Clinton's patriotism is stupid, but at least it is predictable and Democrats generally don't get too upset about it. What else should we expect from the GOP? But when Max Cleland, a decorated Vietnam vet who returned from that war with only one limb, is called an ally of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden by two draft-dodging sleazeballs [Saxby Chambliss and George W Bush] then it has become clear that whatever decency that used to exist in politics has been defecated upon and tossed out the window.

Howard Dean might not have been my first choice for nominee, but he'll have my enthusiastic support if he wins the nomination. I know exactly why Dean is leading the pack right now. Almost alone among Democrats, Dean had the guts to tell the truth about the war and the Bush admin. When other Democrats were afraid of being smeared as unpatriotic and un-American, Dean understood that the Bush White House is going to smear whomever the nominee is, no matter what. If you can get away with implying Max Cleland is a traitor then all bets are off. Dean knows he's going to be called a communist and a fag-lover and a traitor and a Bin Laden sympathizer [he has already been called many of those things], but he just does not care. He's going to tell the truth about the Bush admin come Hell or high water.

Like I said, he isn't necessarily my first choice, but I can sure as hell see why so many Democrats have gravitated to him. I only wish my guy John Kerry had had the guts to say that stuff when it mattered.

[NamVet4]

This is how many Democrats feel, NamVet, and we're not interested in whether or not people like jsarno approve of Al Gore or our party.

But you made the following statement:

If you're not a Democrat, what do you care?

I interpreted that as a question of why jsarno, who I assume does not support the democrat philosophy, would care at all about Al Gore. If you don't care about how the opposition feels, that's another issue.
My point is simply that supporters of both parties should care about their own and the opposition positions.
Reality, and a few years around the block, tells me that very few things in D.C. get done without compromise. Pity the poor bastard who is not smart enough or willing enough to care about the opposition position - he will not make effective compromises.

[Spence]

Originally posted by NamVet4
Reality, and a few years around the block, tells me that very few things in D.C. get done without compromise. Pity the poor bastard who is not smart enough or willing enough to care about the opposition position - he will not make effective compromises. No offense intended, NamVet, but have you been following things in Washington the last few years?

[RedskinsDave]

Two draft-dodging sleazeballs? Gee, nice to know NOW you guys give a sh!t about that. Funny how it was nearly a birthright for the beat generation when slick Willie was running for office.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
Just for the record: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."


Kind of to the point and hard to misinterpret isn't it? I took the initiative in creating the internet. Wow Spence! He said what he said, so deal with it.

but you (SPENCE) did say:
No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet.
and
jsarno, you're usually wrong, but especially now. Gore NEVER said that he invented the Internet. Find the quote. I dare you.

have you admitted you're wrong...of course not. WHy would you do that?
I'm getting really tired of proving people wrong. At least others (including myself) admit it when they or I are wrong.
Well what do you have to say for yourself Mr. Gore NEVER said that?

[jsarno]

Just curious...how many of you have spoken up about how poor the electoral college is like me? I've said time and time again the electoral college is here to make sure the idiots don't elect the wrong person. You bitch about "the popular vote"...who cares guys? He lost fair and square by the laws set forth in this country. Get over it. He's so much of a pussy he won't even run again even though after he lost he said (insinuated) he would.

[RedskinsDave]

Yeah, but the wait sure was fun. We got to see Al and his kids trying to look like Kennedy's with the touch football facade. The jeans he had on looked like one of his girls just ran out to Kohl's.

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
Kind of to the point and hard to misinterpret isn't it? I took the initiative in creating the internet. Wow Spence! He said what he said, so deal with it.

but you (SPENCE) did say:
No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet.
and
jsarno, you're usually wrong, but especially now. Gore NEVER said that he invented the Internet. Find the quote. I dare you.

have you admitted you're wrong...of course not. WHy would you do that?
I'm getting really tired of proving people wrong. At least others (including myself) admit it when they or I are wrong.
Well what do you have to say for yourself Mr. Gore NEVER said that? jsarno, your point on this has been demolished. Only someone willfully misinterpreting Gore's remarks would claim that he invented the Internet in any technical sense. He claimed to have crafted the legislation and found the money to enable to Internet's technical creators to do their job. The people generally credited with creating the Internet in a technical sense almost all agree with Gore on this point. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Gore's quote is accurate and supported by the facts. I was right and you were wrong. As always.

[Spence]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Yeah, but the wait sure was fun. We got to see Al and his kids trying to look like Kennedy's with the touch football facade. The jeans he had on looked like one of his girls just ran out to Kohl's. Perhaps, but he still looked more natural than that sissyboy Mr Bush in his flight suit after his phony carrier landing on the U.S.S. Lincoln.

Bush the Warrior. What a laugh.

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
Just curious...how many of you have spoken up about how poor the electoral college is like me? I've said time and time again the electoral college is here to make sure the idiots don't elect the wrong person. You bitch about "the popular vote"...who cares guys? He lost fair and square by the laws set forth in this country. Get over it. He's so much of a pussy he won't even run again even though after he lost he said (insinuated) he would. No, thanks. I don't feel like getting over it. I'd rather hold a grudge and use my anger to help ruthlessly destroy the halfwit coward in the White House. But thanks for the offer.

As for your insult to Gore: Takes one to know one, jsarno.

[RedskinsDave]

More natural, are you serious? Regardless of the politics around it, Bush in the flight suit was money. Now, it may appear to be a mistake but at the time it sent his ratings and democrat strategists blood pressure sky high.

[Spence]

Dave, it was the sort of stunt you'd expect from people who dodged military service and never think ahead. The Dems are already using it in ads around the country. It's going to be better than Dukakis in a tank. A coward who needed someone else to land the plane strutting around in a flight suit on a carrier about 8000 miles from the action. And Bush is already blaming the Navy for putting up that "Mission Accomplished" sign even though the White House took credit for it back in May.

Yep, I sure do believe them when they say they never plan ahead.

[Spence]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Two draft-dodging sleazeballs? Gee, nice to know NOW you guys give a sh!t about that. Funny how it was nearly a birthright for the beat generation when slick Willie was running for office. I care a lot about draft-dodgers questioning other people's patriotism. When did Bill Clinton question someone else's patriotism? Answer: Never. When did Bill Clinton say he supported the Vietnam War? Answer: Never. [Bush et al say they did support the Vietnam War. I guess they did--so long as poor whites and black people were doing all the dying.]

Hypocrisy matters, Dave. Not to Republicans, perhaps, but to the rest of us.

[RedskinsDave]

Your caveats for what is and is not acceptable is comical.

You know, I know alot of Vietnam Vets and not one of them are poor whites or blacks. How they got there, God only knows.

[Spence]

Dave, your desire to overlook the cowardice of Mr Bush and his kind [people who supported the Vietnam War but would not fight in it] is...well, it's not comical, that's for sure. Sad is a better word for it. The fact is, we both know it bothers you. It bothers all the right-wingers. It bothers Mr Bush. That's what that flight suit stunt was all about. It was about creating a warrior myth for a man who had a chance to be a warrior but instead chose to be true to his nature--to be a coward. And that's why you liked the flight suit stunt. Because it took your mind off Mr Bush's embarrassing past and allowed you to imagine he is something other than what he is. And yes, that's why people like me hated it. We want Mr Bush held responsible for what he is and what he does. We do not want him to be permitted to escape the consequnces of his actions and his life again. Not again.

I can anticipate your response. How dare you tell me what I really think? Dave, it isn't about just you. It's about all you right-wingers. It's obvious. Listen to the Limbaugh show for a day and you can feel the desire of his listeners to believe that Mr Bush is something other than what he is.

And if you don't know any Vietnam Vets who were not poor when they went into Vietnam, you don't know many.

[NamVet4]

Spence,
No offense taken my friend. :)

I don't spend a hell of a lot of time following things in Washington D.C. Remember; I live in the most politically corrupt state in the nation, the home of Tony Soprano!
Seriously, I admit that I am a selfish individual when it comes to my involvement; I get involved when I want to affect the outcome for my benefit. I'm not ashamed to admit it. However,I will discuss and pursue many other issues not directly relating to my or my family's welfare allowing for time and commitment. But on those few occasions when I was directly involved, I learned the hard way that knowing your opposition’s strengths, weaknesses and feelings, leads to a successful compromise.
I'm not thrilled with the way "business" has been conducted in D.C. over the last few years. But, business is conducted nonetheless. And while I cannot cite specific instances, I’m fairly certain that much of the legislation that was enacted and the political maneuvering that was done, was done so in a compromise mode.

[Spence]

Fair enough, NamVet. You and I must agree to disagree on this issue. :) I think things have changed drastically.

[RedskinsDave]

Wow, in one post you told me how and feel AND what I know. You may want to save your righteous indignation for someone else. I will gladly debate with you but if you want to make it personal, tread lightly.

[Spence]

Relax, Dave. I have no righteous indignation for you, only for that coward in the White House you admire.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
Gore's quote is accurate and supported by the facts. I was right and you were wrong. As always.

As always, you don't admit when you're wrong. Here is PROOF:
Spence said:
No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet.
and
jsarno, you're usually wrong, but especially now. Gore NEVER said that he invented the Internet. Find the quote. I dare you.

Hmmmm. What was that you were saying? First you said he didn't say he invented the internet (not true, he did in fact say it no matter what the context), and you dared me to prove it so (which in all fairness you did, but proof was indeed supplied.) Then you do a 180 and say..."well it was founded...he had A LOT to do with the invention of the internet." Which is it SPence?
Either he didn't say it, or he did say it. I never denied that he had a PART in it. But he most certainly did NOT invent it.
Damn it's amazing how some people get proven dead wrong and thier pride just can't admit it. Come on Spence...say it..."I was wrong". It's ok, it doesn't make you any less of a man. The proof has been laid out before you. Don't ignore it.

[NamVet4]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Your caveats for what is and is not acceptable is comical.

You know, I know alot of Vietnam Vets and not one of them are poor whites or blacks. How they got there, God only knows.
RedskinsDave,

Who you know, and who were there in Vietnam appear to be somewhat disproportionate. My unit was small, myself and five others.
One black, one hispanic, one country boy, one college boy, one city boy, and myself. We got there through volunteering and the draft! We were probably not representative of the racial or economic makeup of all the troops. There is enough hard and fast data on that available on the internet. We were what we were. Now, as Veterans, I must respectfully disagree with you RedskinsDave, and say that there are a significant number of poor, white, black and hispanic Veterans. If you don't believe me, ask any recogonized federally chartered veterans organization.

If I'm out of line, I'm sorry.

just my 2 cents.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
As always, you don't admit when you're wrong. Here is PROOF:
Spence said:
No, Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet.
and
jsarno, you're usually wrong, but especially now. Gore NEVER said that he invented the Internet. Find the quote. I dare you.

Hmmmm. What was that you were saying? First you said he didn't say he invented the internet (not true, he did in fact say it no matter what the context), and you dared me to prove it so (which in all fairness you did, but proof was indeed supplied.) Then you do a 180 and say..."well it was founded...he had A LOT to do with the invention of the internet." Which is it SPence?
Either he didn't say it, or he did say it. I never denied that he had a PART in it. But he most certainly did NOT invent it.
Damn it's amazing how some people get proven dead wrong and thier pride just can't admit it. Come on Spence...say it..."I was wrong". It's ok, it doesn't make you any less of a man. The proof has been laid out before you. Don't ignore it.

The actual Gore quote was "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." This message at the time and in the context of the discussion was clear, he had supported in Congress the creation of Internet, by supporting funding for the predecesor of what we now call the Internet. It would be the same as Reagan saying "As president, I took the initiative in creating the Missile Defense Shield". Nobody would ever confuse such a statement as Reagan saying "I invented the Missile Defense Shield", nor dispute whether Reagan was indeed a primary player in getting the program going.

Republicans helpfully substituted "invent" for "create" (which while a synonym, connotes to a much larger degree actually coming up with the idea, creating specs, etc.) and seperated it totally from the phrase "took the initiative" and marketed the idea that Gore was saying it was his idea, or that he physically created it, rather than acknowledging the truth, that Gore was simply trumpeting the fact that he was an early and vocal supporter of the idea and worked hard in Congress to make what is now the Internet possible.

Why should any of us be surprised that Republicans would slightly change a quote to discredit a person on something they should have been giving props for? They do it all the time.

Jsarno, can you understand the difference between the actual quote containing the "initiative" phrase and "create", and the widely bastardized "invent" misquote? I mean, if you accept that the actual quote was as I state above, that it is clear that he is not taking credit for "inventing" the Interent?

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
Just curious...how many of you have spoken up about how poor the electoral college is like me? I've said time and time again the electoral college is here to make sure the idiots don't elect the wrong person. You bitch about "the popular vote"...who cares guys? He lost fair and square by the laws set forth in this country. Get over it. He's so much of a pussy he won't even run again even though after he lost he said (insinuated) he would.

Hope you are not lumping me with anyone who is criticizing the Electoral College, 'cause my earlier post noting that Gore won the popular vote was simply intended to show that the guy clearly had the majority of Amercan's ears, so what he says is newsworthy. I don't decry the fact that he did not win the election even though he won the majority of votes, I decry the storng possibility that had all the votes been counted, he would have WON the Electoral COllege and the election.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch
Hope you are not lumping me with anyone who is criticizing the Electoral College

No, I wasn't. I apologize that I came across that way.

Personally I think the electoral college is about as backward as they come. But it's the accepted practice. To me it should be black and white. If 3,000,001 people vote for you, and the other guys has 3,000,000 then you should win by one vote.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch
The actual Gore quote was "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." This message at the time and in the context of the discussion was clear, he had supported in Congress the creation of Internet, by supporting funding for the predecesor of what we now call the Internet. It would be the same as Reagan saying "As president, I took the initiative in creating the Missile Defense Shield". Nobody would ever confuse such a statement as Reagan saying "I invented the Missile Defense Shield", nor dispute whether Reagan was indeed a primary player in getting the program going.

Republicans helpfully substituted "invent" for "create" (which while a synonym, connotes to a much larger degree actually coming up with the idea, creating specs, etc.) and seperated it totally from the phrase "took the initiative" and marketed the idea that Gore was saying it was his idea, or that he physically created it, rather than acknowledging the truth, that Gore was simply trumpeting the fact that he was an early and vocal supporter of the idea and worked hard in Congress to make what is now the Internet possible.

Why should any of us be surprised that Republicans would slightly change a quote to discredit a person on something they should have been giving props for? They do it all the time.

Jsarno, can you understand the difference between the actual quote containing the "initiative" phrase and "create", and the widely bastardized "invent" misquote? I mean, if you accept that the actual quote was as I state above, that it is clear that he is not taking credit for "inventing" the Interent?


Still missing the point. I never said he didn't "help" in the creation of the internet. My point was merely he said it. I fully agree that it was blown out of proportion. There were saturday night live skits that had him saying he invented pants. Also the space shuttle was his idea. All jokes. If Gore was wise, he would have said "I helped aid in the process of the creation of the internet." Then no one would bring it up again. I'm not even sure if he did or not, which is why I am not arguing that point.

Let's break this down. "I took the initiative in creating the internet."
I, meaning Al Gore of course.
Took the initiative, meaning he took the first step.
To creating, to cause to exist, to bring into being.
The internet. (self explanatory)
So we can debate the validity of this if you wish (something that hasn't been done yet). Did he in fact "HELP" to create the internet? Or was he "one of the first" to "create" the internet? He used simgular words not plural. He is very much insinuating that he created the internet by himself. I don't feel this was massively blown out of proportion, but Gore chose the wrong words.
The whole point of this that is still going on is that Spence said "he never said that", but he did.
So what did he actually do in the creation, or the aid of creation of the internet?

[dukeuch]

Jsarno:

So if Reagan were to have said "As president, I took the initiative in creating the Missile Defense System", it would be easily interpreted as him saying "I invented the missile defense system"?

Look, in my opinion, and the opinion of the guy who did the interview with Gore (that's who was quoted in the article which started this thread, right?) it was clear that Gore was trying to take credit for being a primary supporter of the creation of the internet vis-a-vis his role as an elected official trying to secure funding in COngress. Any other interpretaiton was fabricated and malicious.

Can you show me where he "took credit" for the space shuttle, or is it likely that again he was pointing out that he was out front in support and that was also twisted?

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
Let's break this down. "I took the initiative in creating the internet."
I, meaning Al Gore of course.
Took the initiative, meaning he took the first step.
To creating, to cause to exist, to bring into being.
The internet. (self explanatory)
So we can debate the validity of this if you wish (something that hasn't been done yet). Did he in fact "HELP" to create the internet? Or was he "one of the first" to "create" the internet? He used simgular words not plural. He is very much insinuating that he created the internet by himself. I don't feel this was massively blown out of proportion, but Gore chose the wrong words.
The whole point of this that is still going on is that Spence said "he never said that", but he did.
So what did he actually do in the creation, or the aid of creation of the internet?

See, even you are doing it by deleting the phrase "as a member of Congress". Any reasonable person would realize that he is qualifying how he was involved by that phrase by meaning he took the initiative doing what Congressmen do, introducing legislation, supporting funding, etc. Why would anyone reach the conclusion that he meant anything other than that?

[Keino]

Dukeuch.....Try again. I cleared out my inbox.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch

Can you show me where he "took credit" for the space shuttle, or is it likely that again he was pointing out that he was out front in support and that was also twisted?

This is what gets so frustrating here. How in the world did you get I was saying he was taking credit for the space shuttle from what I posted previously?
This is what I said:
I fully agree that it was blown out of proportion. There were saturday night live skits that had him saying he invented pants. Also the space shuttle was his idea. All jokes.

Where did I say he "took credit"? The saturday night live skits were making fun of him and exaggerating the fact that he didn't chose his words wisely. All JOKES. But they exaggerated the fact that he did in fact not chose his words wisely.
I guess the literalist in me sees what I read for the actual definitions in the english dictionary. I don't try to "interpret through my own eyes" what people are "trying" to say. I just read it for what it is.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
This is what gets so frustrating here. How in the world did you get I was saying he was taking credit for the space shuttle from what I posted previously?
This is what I said:
I fully agree that it was blown out of proportion. There were saturday night live skits that had him saying he invented pants. Also the space shuttle was his idea. All jokes.

Where did I say he "took credit"? The saturday night live skits were making fun of him and exaggerating the fact that he didn't chose his words wisely. All JOKES. But they exaggerated the fact that he did in fact not chose his words wisely.
I guess the literalist in me sees what I read for the actual definitions in the english dictionary. I don't try to "interpret through my own eyes" what people are "trying" to say. I just read it for what it is.

You are right, I missed the space shuttle joke, I guess because it is outragous as the belief held by many that Gore DID try to say he invented the intenet, so I thought you might have been serious.

As far as your "literalist" interpetation, it you are violating the principle you claim defends your point. You simply cannot delete parts of the sentaence, or establish meaning out of context.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
Still missing the point. I never said he didn't "help" in the creation of the internet. My point was merely he said it. I fully agree that it was blown out of proportion. There were saturday night live skits that had him saying he invented pants. Also the space shuttle was his idea. All jokes. If Gore was wise, he would have said "I helped aid in the process of the creation of the internet." Then no one would bring it up again. I'm not even sure if he did or not, which is why I am not arguing that point.

Let's break this down. "I took the initiative in creating the internet."
I, meaning Al Gore of course.
Took the initiative, meaning he took the first step.
To creating, to cause to exist, to bring into being.
The internet. (self explanatory)
So we can debate the validity of this if you wish (something that hasn't been done yet). Did he in fact "HELP" to create the internet? Or was he "one of the first" to "create" the internet? He used simgular words not plural. He is very much insinuating that he created the internet by himself. I don't feel this was massively blown out of proportion, but Gore chose the wrong words.
The whole point of this that is still going on is that Spence said "he never said that", but he did.
So what did he actually do in the creation, or the aid of creation of the internet?

No, you are missing the point that slight changes in actual words and context can be made to appear to have a different meaning. For example, Ann Coulter once said in a NY Observer interview that she was "friendly with" Al Franken. Of course, "intimate" is a synonym of "friendly (according to Roget's Thesaurus). So let's break this down: She (meaning Ann Coulter) said that she was friendly (same as intimate) with Al Franken. So, she was saying she had sex with Al Franken. What a lying, deluded bitch!

[RedskinsDave]

Franken wishes he could do that well.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
Franken wishes he could do that well.

Franken has been happily married for close to 30 years. How dare Coulter make such an unfounded, libelous claim in a shameless attempt to break up his marriage and have him for herself!

[RedskinsDave]

:D

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno

This is what I said:
I fully agree that it was blown out of proportion. There were saturday night live skits that had him saying he invented pants. Also the space shuttle was his idea. All jokes.

Where did I say he "took credit"? The saturday night live skits were making fun of him and exaggerating the fact that he didn't chose his words wisely. All JOKES. But they exaggerated the fact that he did in fact not chose his words wisely.


Wow Jsarno, it looks above like you are making yourself look reasonable by acknowledging that the whole thing was blown out of proportion, but that Gore should have choosen his words wisely.

Ooops, forgot how you closed the original post for this thread:

Why exaclty would you want to be endorsed by such a mega liar and someone completely untrustworthy?

Hmmmmm, which is it? Blown out of proportion or he's a "mega liar"?

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch
Wow Jsarno, it looks above like you are making yourself look reasonable by acknowledging that the whole thing was blown out of proportion, but that Gore should have choosen his words wisely.

Ooops, forgot how you closed the original post for this thread:

Why exaclty would you want to be endorsed by such a mega liar and someone completely untrustworthy?

Hmmmmm, which is it? Blown out of proportion or he's a "mega liar"?

This is why I don't reply to you. Can you seriously not see the difference?
1- Mega liar...he is one.
2- the SITUATION regarding his lieing claim blown out of proportion. How exactly are these the same thing? He is a liar and the situation was blown out of proportion...not tough to grasp.
So run democrat run...keep twisting things until they make sense to you. Funny how you even made yourself look even MORE of an idiot (if that was even possible) by the franken analogy.
Here is the definition of friendly:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=friendly
enjoy your own little bias world of twisting. Things say what they say. "took the initiative in creating the internet." Yeah, I think that means he he wanted to play poker with the cast of Cats. Sure, why not?

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
This is why I don't reply to you. Can you seriously not see the difference?
1- Mega liar...he is one.
2- the SITUATION regarding his lieing claim blown out of proportion. How exactly are these the same thing? He is a liar and the situation was blown out of proportion...not tough to grasp.
So run democrat run...keep twisting things until they make sense to you. Funny how you even made yourself look even MORE of an idiot (if that was even possible) by the franken analogy.
Here is the definition of friendly:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=friendly
enjoy your own little bias world of twisting. Things say what they say. "took the initiative in creating the internet." Yeah, I think that means he he wanted to play poker with the cast of Cats. Sure, why not?

Once again, it is you who are arguing in the face of facts. His actual quote, which you continue to ignore, clearly is intended to convey that while he was in Congress, he supported the creation of the internet . How do Congressmen support something? by proposing bills, seeking funding, etc. These are things he did, out in the forefront. So, where is the lie? The lie is where Republicans subtely changed the quote to help them perpetuate the myth he was taking credit for "inventing". Even the interviewer who elicited the quote said it was clear what he meant.

So who is ignoring the truth? Oh yeah, and regarding my Ann Coulter example: she said she's friendly with Al Franken, friendly is a sysnonym for intimate, intimacy is equivelant to sexual relations, so why would it be inaccurate to say that she said she has sex with Franken? The answer is obvious. Like I said before by way of another example, if Reagan said "As President, I took the initiative in creating the Missile Defense System" he would be every bit as correct as Gore was, and every one would know exactly what he meant. Why is Gore different?

By the way, brush up on your logic; if you admit that the whole thing was blown out of proportion, and that you claim that "Gore should have choosen his words more wisely" how is it consistent to also say that Gore was a meg liar about the whole thing?

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch
she said she's friendly with Al Franken, friendly is a sysnonym for intimate, intimacy is equivelant to sexual relations, so why would it be inaccurate to say that she said she has sex with Franken

hello wall...nice to see you again. You have nothing worthy of commenting on, and I will once again stop replying to you sicne you provide no value in your posts.
But I will leave you with this. You must be gay. Why? Because I am sure you have male friends, and since being friendly with them is the same as being intimate, you are clearly gay. (don't forget that is what you provided...sounds pretty stupid huh?) Have a nice day.

[rskinsfan10]

JSARNO,

Your last two posts contained questionable statements that would be better served not being included in this discussion. Despite your intent, referring to another poster as an idiot and or gay will not be allowed in here.

KEEP IT CLEAN.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by jsarno
hello wall...nice to see you again. You have nothing worthy of commenting on, and I will once again stop replying to you sicne you provide no value in your posts.
But I will leave you with this. You must be gay. Why? Because I am sure you have male friends, and since being friendly with them is the same as being intimate, you are clearly gay. (don't forget that is what you provided...sounds pretty stupid huh?) Have a nice day.

EXACTLY! It DOES sound pretty stupid. You finally get it! It sounds stupid, just like the myth which has been perpetuated about Gore claiming to have invented the internet. When you take something out of context, change words, etc. that is what happens.

Did you seriously think I was suggesting that Ann Coulter actually had sex with Al Franken. Man, you are gone.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dukeuch
EXACTLY! It DOES sound pretty stupid. You finally get it! It sounds stupid, just like the myth which has been perpetuated about Gore claiming to have invented the internet. When you take something out of context, change words, etc. that is what happens.

Did you seriously think I was suggesting that Ann Coulter actually had sex with Al Franken. Man, you are gone.

You still don't get it. YOUR ANALOGY SUCKED. It was no where close to the same as the Gore comment. Dense is not even a word to describe you.
Tell you what. You break down each word of his sentence by the dictionary and don't add your own little twists and if you still think it's not saying he invented the internet, then come talk to me. I know you can't do it. The republican party was handed something on a silver platter. Just get over it.
There is no need to go farther with this thread, I am exhausted trying to teach you little children what words mean.

[PennSkinsFan]

Jsarno----Knock it off!