Lavar wants input? [Archive] - hailRedskins.com Fan Board

Patrick

12-23-2003, 06:32 AM

I listen to the interview and there is more to this than what is being reported (as usual). ......... Doc Walker, indicated that a player like Lavar is what is needed on the Skins, a longtime player, who the Skins are (or will be) invented in, that can give some input about "Who's being brought in" and "Who's being released". ............ I agree with Doc and I behind Lavar. Both have played the game at a high level and feel they both understand some of the interals better than any of us ever will. But that's just my 2.5 cents.

hail2skins

12-23-2003, 06:36 AM

I heard discussions of whether Mike Vick will have some input on who is hired in Atlanta. At least it shows that Lavar is concerned about the team unlike some others. I guess we'll see.

PennSkinsFan

12-23-2003, 09:46 AM

Also shows a bit of concern from lavar and the fact that he wants say or shall i say input means he would love to stick around.

I have heard int he past that Lavar's concern is that spending binge after spending binge has brought in alot of guys that have the "me...me" attitude and it has fostered situations we seee now, where this team is not playing with a chemistry, cohesive approach because there are too many ME ME guys here.

Guess I can see his point. When was the last time we brought in solid vets, not superstars, not multi-million vets, but guys that just contributed to success. I would say the Schotty year we brought in a few like that. Lockett provided a decent third option, Ben Coleman was a cheap alternative that stepped in that year and gave a heckuva solid performance.

Maybe we need to tone down what we are looking for and put work ethic and teamsmanship as priorities on players that come here.

Skinzaholic

12-23-2003, 09:49 AM

I knew there was more to his story then what was reported.

hail2skins

12-23-2003, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Also shows a bit of concern from lavar and the fact that he wants say or shall i say input means he would love to stick around.

I have heard int he past that Lavar's concern is that spending binge after spending binge has brought in alot of guys that have the "me...me" attitude and it has fostered situations we seee now, where this team is not playing with a chemistry, cohesive approach because there are too many ME ME guys here.

Guess I can see his point. When was the last time we brought in solid vets, not superstars, not multi-million vets, but guys that just contributed to success. I would say the Schotty year we brought in a few like that. Lockett provided a decent third option, Ben Coleman was a cheap alternative that stepped in that year and gave a heckuva solid performance.

Maybe we need to tone down what we are looking for and put work ethic and teamsmanship as priorities on players that come here.

What about Coles, Thomas?

Skins57

12-23-2003, 09:55 AM

I am not sure, I agre with a player geting input but this team sure as heck does need some fresh ideas so in other words, I don't know what I think about this :D

Patrick

12-23-2003, 09:55 AM

PSF - that is exactly what he indicated about team chemistry. AND for what it's worth - he also wants to be a Redskin for his entire career ("for life" as he put it).

PennSkinsFan

12-23-2003, 09:58 AM

H2S, i am not saying all players, but taking a look at the past, Dieon, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, and others, can we say they really cared about DC? Hell No! Coles is worth every penny, he plays hurt, plays well, and has an incredible work ethic. Same goes for Thomas. BUT, this organization does have a repuation of bringing in guys with big paycheck that may not be godo overall for the success of the team.

hail2skins

12-23-2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
H2S, i am not saying all players, but taking a look at the past, Dieon, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, and others, can we say they really cared about DC? Hell No! Coles is worth every penny, he plays hurt, plays well, and has an incredible work ethic. Same goes for Thomas. BUT, this organization does have a repuation of bringing in guys with big paycheck that may not be godo overall for the success of the team.

I guess the question "When was the last time we bought in vets" confused me.

RichardBradley

12-23-2003, 10:11 AM

Tell hiom to but a playstation they have a ownership mode and he can make all the decisions he wants... Oh wait he won't see his rights to the NFLPA.........Hummmmmmmmmm Tell him to live in the real world

TexSkin

12-23-2003, 10:17 AM

Lavar has good intentions.....I can't blame himfor wanting this team to be better.

REALRICK

12-23-2003, 10:52 AM

Sorry I haven't replied until now. I read this yesterday but I spent the whole night on my back laughing. I couldn't stop and now my stomach hurts.

Boy, that Lavar has some great stand up comedy.

Brokenstriker

12-23-2003, 11:01 AM

DAMN this one has me pinging off all sorts of walls.

I suppose its a good thing that Arrington wishes he could have more say bacause it implies he's committed to the team.

but past that ... I don't feel good about this if anyone actually makes an issue of it or accomodates it in the extreme.

About the only good I can see in this is that considering (and I only mean considering) a key players opinion of what complements his abilities, or how he might be best used has got to have some value when the coaches and managers are assessing what to do. But if this is taken in an extreme implying that the Redskins should do what a player wants ... well that's just complete nonsense. Thankfully I don't think of Arrington as the kind of person who actually thinks the team is supposed to rotate around him. I'm taking this along the lines of he thinks some mistakes were made and would like senior decision makers to get some input from a player's persective.

JoeDaSchmoe

12-23-2003, 11:47 AM

Hey, I might just take Arrington over Cerrato.

skins74

12-23-2003, 11:58 AM

I think that LaVar doesn't trust that the FO will make a good decision and I have to agree with him. I think that if the FO had a history of making good decisions he wouldn't say anything. Hey, I wish I had some input to, because I don't trust the FO either.

Semiskin

12-23-2003, 12:11 PM

I don't think it's a bad idea to have soem player input in personnel from both sides of the ball, maybe from a Brett Favre or Rod Woodson type, somebody who is a proven player and more importantly someone who has won. But there isn't anybody like that on our team. Though on the otherhand anybody would probably be better than Vinny.

jonesy

12-23-2003, 01:20 PM

The coach, FO should seek input from team leaders, it's how you build a sense of buy in, ownership and leadership among players. These guys are players but have thoughts feelings and relationships and if you ignore that you get disenfranchised players. They also have insight into true team chemistry. You have to have team leadership who feel as though there thoughts matter. But make sure it's the right guys. Lavar is the right guy, he just needs to also work on his own ahtleticism, needs to be quicker and faster and not get juked like he does too often.

fergie56

12-23-2003, 02:00 PM

Good for Lavar for wanting to give input into this organization. I think it would be beneficial to have a pro-bowl style player that maybe can use his reputation to bring in some key FA's. I find it refreshing to know that it is not only about the money - that he does want team success. Sure, he rejected the latest contract offer, but maybe he is just waiting to see what the organization does before agreeing to anything.

I don't think anyone can question the heart and the intentions of Arrington. He has made some mental mistakes this year, but he always shows up and plays hard. Plus, how much worse could it get?

fergie56

12-23-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by REALRICK
Sorry I haven't replied until now. I read this yesterday but I spent the whole night on my back laughing. I couldn't stop and now my stomach hurts.

Boy, that Lavar has some great stand up comedy.

Come on there guy, over all your posts I have read you have put blame on the losing season to just about everyone within the organization - Spurrier, Ramsey (not a 60% passer - which btw, does this stat reflect drop balls or receivers running improper routes?), DLine, FO, etc, etc...

I do agree with a lot of what you say (won't agree about the qb but that is something different and not worth getting into), but why is Lavar, who probably feels the same way about some of your very issues a stand up comic? The man just wants some input... Two things I won't question about Lavar is the man's heart and intentions. Why not have those attributes when it comes to choosing players? Why not have the opinion of one of your veterans and team leaders who is down in the trenches, fighting? How can it hurt, and if it means he is more willing to redo his contract to help the cap, why not?

rskinsfan10

12-23-2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Spence
He wants input??? Geez, this guy's ego is even bigger than I thought. Considering his taste in coaches [likes George Edwards, does not like Marvin Lewis] I'm not sure I want to hear this guy's opinion about anything.

Well, he did say that he felt it imperative that the team kept Champ.

You would have to have heard the interview to understand the context of what he was saying. He wasn't coming across as cocky one bit. He mentioned it more along the lines of some of the guys on the team now just don't seem to be in it for the team, and that he would like to give his input on who's heart is in it, and who's heart that he thinks would be in any future signings.

Doc Walker used Urlacher not being aware that the team was about to get rid of one of his massive tackles and their decision not to keep Colvin as examples of your franchise player not being aware of key guys within his side of the ball being let go without the star being aware that the possibilty was even there.

Patrick

12-24-2003, 08:13 AM

Kenny is exactly right - Before making any judgement about Lavar on this issue, you had to HEAR the interview. Most of the questions were situational. A very tough postion to be put into and I could tell his answers were from the heart.

dj_stouty

12-24-2003, 08:29 AM

I see nothing wrong with what Lavar said. Everyone knows how badly this team needs a leader to step up.

Spence

12-24-2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by dj_stouty
I see nothing wrong with what Lavar said. Everyone knows how badly this team needs a leader to step up. Let him step up on the field for once. That's what he's paid to do.

dj_stouty

12-24-2003, 10:14 AM

I've seen Lavar make Plays, Spence...and so have you. The hard part is creating the formula that indicates whether or not he is worth the money he is making.

He is on pace to get about the same number of tackles as last year. His sacks are down...from 11 to 6, but that is primarily because Lewis used him as a pseudo-Defensive End last year. Now he is used more in coverage and run stop...and has clearly improved his coverage skills...as he leads the team with 10 passes defensed. (In fact...I believe he may have more passes defensed than any other OLB in the league) NOT BAD...considering you would think our pro-bowl cover corner would lead the team in that category. In fact, Champ's # of passes defensed went from 19 in 2002 to only 6 this year....only 1/3 of the production from last year. I wonder if Champ benefited from covering all those #2 WRs last year...

PennSkinsFan

12-24-2003, 11:06 AM

Lavar is an excellent LB, he just needs to be a bit more discipline din his approach, needs to stay in position more often, but that reflects poor coaching as well. Players can support Edwards all they want, but I just can not see him returning.

Spence

12-24-2003, 11:18 AM

Lewis used Arrington properly last year, DJ, and all he did was bitch about it. I guess each of us sees very different things. Last year I saw Arrington become a dominating defensive force who offensive coordinators and quarterbacks had to account for on every single play. This year, I see a guy who disappears for long stretches of the game and is frequently out of position. The number of passes defensed does not do much for me, whether it is cornerbacks or linebackers or safeties. That generally depends on where quarterbacks are throwing. Lavar has a lot of passes defensed this year because teams are throwing so much at our linebackers, knowing they are out of position so often. Ever since that first Giants game, when the fullback [Jim Finn] and Shockey made mincemeat of Trotter and Arrington, teams have been going after our 'backers.

I think with proper coaching Arrington could return to the player he was in 2002, but the lesson he has drawn from this year is that he should be able to do whatever he likes and the coaching staff should accomodate him. Lavar wants to play like he did at Penn State. He's just like Spurrier in one sense: Neither one of them has figured out you can't play football in the NFL the way you played it in college. Unless the team gets a real hardass for a defensive coordinator, someone who will bust Lavar's ass every time he is out of position and will insist that Lavar adhere to a system and use his natural talents [speed] as a passrusher, Lavar is going to have year after year after year that are just like this one. Considering Lavar is going to cost us something like $9 million against the cap next season [and $10 million and $11 million in the seasons after that], he needs to be MUCH more of a playmaker than he has been in 2002.

dj_stouty

12-24-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Spence
The number of passes defensed does not do much for me, whether it is cornerbacks or linebackers or safeties. That generally depends on where quarterbacks are throwing.

I think it is important to point out that Lavar does a fairly decent job in exceling in the role he is put in. Last year, he was asked to be a rush passer. So...he went out and led all LBs in sacks last year. (11 total) This year, he was asked to be a coverage LB. He went out and defended more passes than any other OLB this year.

Passes defensed does do a lot for me. Lavar has an amazing atheletic ability. One that allows his to jump up and deflect passes or dive out and bat down catchable balls. Even if QBs are throwing his way on purpose, Lavar is doing his best to defend the pass. The fact that he leads all players in his position in this stats proves why he will be starting for the NFC again in the pro-bowl.

Honestly? I too would like to see him rush the passer more often. But this current system doesn't allow it as often. And that is one of the reasons why I'm still on the fence as to Edward's future with the team.

hail2skins

12-24-2003, 11:41 AM

I think our LB's should be told to stick with their assignments no matter what and the freedom to freelance should provoked. The freelancing caused us several games. If Arrington wants to become anything like Lewis, he has to learn to play within the system first. You must learn to follow before you can lead (from the movie Drumline).

Spence

12-24-2003, 11:54 AM

DJ, you're writing as if Lavar has nothing to do with the system he is in. The defense Lavar plays is the defense he wants to play, has demanded to play. Essentially, you think the system [to the extent that one exists and Lavar elects to play within it on any particular down] Lavar and Edwards are using is suspect. You blame Edwards for it, not Lavar. Fair enough. I just think it is incredible to ignore the fact that Lavar did everything he could to get Edwards hired and has defended him ever since. I'm not sure why you think Lavar has done this, but I know why I think he has: Edwards will let Lavar do whatever Lavar likes to do and Lavar does not like to get his hands dirty going against big offensive linemen.

We both agree Lavar is a great athlete who can make many wonderful plays. I guess our big difference on Lavar is this:

1] You think he has been great this year, I think he has been ordinary;

2] You think any problems with the way Lavar is used are the fault of George Edwards, I think Lavar's hands are all over this defense and he bears as much blame as anyone--including Edwards.

Is that about right?

Patrick

12-24-2003, 12:17 PM

Of the two players who are constantly under discussion here, I say that Lavar has had a better year than Champ, and that neither deserves to be in the ProBowl.

The way a player is used or not used is most definitely the coaches fault. It’s the player fault when he does NOT play the way he’s coached.

dj_stouty

12-24-2003, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Spence
DJ, you're writing as if Lavar has nothing to do with the system he is in. The defense Lavar plays is the defense he wants to play, has demanded to play. Essentially, you think the system [to the extent that one exists and Lavar elects to play within it on any particular down] Lavar and Edwards are using is suspect. You blame Edwards for it, not Lavar. Fair enough. I just think it is incredible to ignore the fact that Lavar did everything he could to get Edwards hired and has defended him ever since. I'm not sure why you think Lavar has done this, but I know why I think he has: Edwards will let Lavar do whatever Lavar likes to do and Lavar does not like to get his hands dirty going against big offensive linemen.

We both agree Lavar is a great athlete who can make many wonderful plays. I guess our big difference on Lavar is this:

1] You think he has been great this year, I think he has been ordinary;

2] You think any problems with the way Lavar is used are the fault of George Edwards, I think Lavar's hands are all over this defense and he bears as much blame as anyone--including Edwards.

Is that about right?

My real point here is that Lavar gets good "stats" no matter what his role in the system is. Pass rush...run stuff...pass coverage. He has proved that he can do it all. Basically...he is a phenomial athelete having a good year.

I agree 100% that Lavar is in Edwards' ear during practice...and this is the role Lavar wants to play. But it is Edward's overall decision...not Lavar's. In fact, about 5 weeks ago when our pass rush was non-existant, Edwards was the one to make Lavar line up on the end and pass rush for a portion of the plays. He has gotten 4 sacks becuase of it.