top 4 picks

[coachsanto]

I've been looking into this draft a little bit....and reading everyone's talk about miami's safety. What do San diego, Oakland, Arizona, and N.Y. need in picks? I'm almost salivating over this kid Taylor. They say he's as good (or mabye better) than Roy William. On the few things I've read about him they say he covers like a corner and hits like a linebacker. On strengths and weaknesses hardly anyone has anything so say about weaknesses. I really and truly hope we can land 2 real good D-lineman in the FA market and get a chance at Taylor with the 5th pick.

[SkinsKY]

The only way I would be satisfied with Taylor as a pick would be if I was satisfied with the way we addressed DL in FA. That is the most pressing need on this team and something everyone screamed about, but many seem to have focused on something else (Winslow, Taylor, Jones, et al).

[WackyJacky]

Yeah, I think I agree with you, KY.

[coachsanto]

does anyone know what those teams need?
I expect Eli Manning and Roy Williams to go in the top 4, what about the other 2?

[Spence]

San Diego and Arizona need quarterbacks badly. They might attempt to put the job off by getting a veteran quarterback [Mark Brunell?] and drafting to fill another need, but I think both teams will have a hard time passing on Manning and Rothlisberger. Oakland might also need a quarterback, since Gannon flamed out this year and it two years older than Moses. Oakland might also look for a wide receiver, considering the age of Rice and Brown. The Giants need help on the offensive and defensive lines, though offense is the more urgent demand.

[Skinzaholic]

Most mock drafts have Arizona picking up Roy Williams... and with Green going there that may still be the case due to his past success with WR's.

[Farbod]

Roy Williams will not go that high... Only WR that has a chance at top 5 is Fitz... 2 of first 4 picks will be QB for sure. And best bet is NY will take a OL.... That leaves one wild card...

Best case senerio for us is 1st four picks go QB, QB, Fitz, OL... That leaves us with a nice selection at 5...

Harris is very inconsistant mostly against good competition...
Wilfork at #5 is wayyyy too high!
Winslow is not a Gibbs type TE is he? And TE at #5???
Jones... Get a clue the guy is not a top 20 pick!!!
Jackson.... Easily the best back, but what about DL?
Taylor.... Again an awsome player, but DL is so needed
Udeze...Best pass rusher in draft, but at #5

I say we trade down and take either Udeze or Wilfork, or if we can get some good DL as UFA, then we take Jackson or Taylor...

[REALRICK]

If we get to number 5 and Will Smith is available, Harris, Udeze, and Sean Taylor...shouldn't the evaluation be based on best player available. If we choose defense, best player should always come into play. Defense is defense....and if Taylor is an impact player, then he will impact. If a defensive end is thought to be a better impact player, then choose him.

But either way, you want somebody who you can project into a pro bowl within 2 years. We don't want another Kenard Lang...a defensive end taken in round 1 just because we needed one. Take the player that projects to be "special". Wouldn't it be nice to have Lavar and Taylor on the same team even if it meant we had to waste another year before drafting a defensive tackle.

Lets bring in Warren Sapp, Sam Adams, and Gardener to fill in while we're waiting on next years draft.

[HollywoodKolt]

From PFW

Arizona Cardinals
1. DL: The organization believes better coaching may make a difference with all the young players the team has stockpiled on the line so far. But a stud tackle or end would be tough to pass up.
2. QB: This may be the No. 1 need, depending on how the Cards feel about Josh McCown. But in the absence of a good draft option, the team might stick with McCown for now.
3. CB: The lack of a pass rush has left the Cards' corners out to dry, but the team knows it needs to upgrade its talent in this area.

San Diego Chargers
1. OL: "Healthy offensive linemen'' was how Marty Schottenheimer responded when asked what his team needs most. Even if all their linemen were healthy, the Chargers still could use more talent.
2. MLB: A middle linebacker who has the speed to play from sideline to sideline. Zeke Moreno tries hard, but he's just not fast enough to play on a regular basis.
3. DL: A big tackle to work with Jamal Williams inside and a pass-rushing end to provide speed on the edge would be helpful.

Oakland Raiders

The Raiders may lose Charles Woodson to free agency.
1. DT: The Raiders had the NFL's worst run defense in 2003 and need to get some beef back in the middle. John Parrella is a proven stud, but with Dana Stubblefield a free agent and Rod Coleman wanting out of Oakland, Parrella will need some help.
2. DB: Even if the Raiders re-sign Charles Woodson, they've got serious issues at the RCB slot and at both safety positions, especially if Rod Woodson retires.
3. QB: Rich Gannon appears to be healing nicely from shoulder surgery, but there are questions about his age, performance and salary. Marques Tuiasosopo still hasn't proven capable of running an offense, and Rick Mirer is, well, Rick Mirer. Is it any wonder the Raiders are eyeing Manning?

New York Giants
The Giants want to re-establish the line of scrimmage, but the defense needs upgrading.
1. OT: Only one lineman, rookie OG David Diehl, started all 16 games at the same position. The big-play offense the Giants were supposed to unveil, with weapons such as Amani Toomer, Jeremy Shockey, Tiki Barber, Ike Hilliard and Kerry Collins, was grounded early and never took flight. The main culprit? Shabby performances along the line. Reinforcements are needed, especially at tackle.
2. LB: There was a time when impact linebackers roamed the Giants' defense, but those times are gone. Two starters, Brandon Short and Dhani Jones, are unrestricted free agents, and neither is considered a difference-maker. A playmaking linebacker, preferably on the weak side, would go a long way in rebuilding the image of this once-feared unit.
3. DB: The Giants allowed 25 touchdown passes and experienced an inordinate number of breakdowns in pass coverage. Three starters -- Will Allen, Will Peterson and Shaun Williams -- are coming off serious injuries. The fourth, Omar Stoutmire, and nickel back Ralph Brown are unrestricted free agents. The team had a mere nine interceptions. Help is needed.

5. Washington Redskins -- DT, DE, C
The defensive line needs major help with DEs Renaldo Wynn and Regan Upshaw failing to create pressure off the edge and DT Darrell Russell proving to be a poor free-agent addition. Lennie Friedman and Larry Moore are marginal at center.

notice that they don't list RB as one of our top three needs, I would disagree but to each his own.

[truant]

The two big QB's will likely go in the top 3. There are also 2 very good offensive linemen (Gallery and Andrews). Roy Williams is rated very high and if Larry comes out he should go top 5.

We should have an array of choices. Jones IS worth a top 5 pick IMO. I say you take Taylor or Jones. If we don't want either, then trade down and take Udeze, Wilfork or Smith.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I'd say Jones is worth the fifth pick, but trading down and grabbing Udeze intrigues me. A lot. Then we could get Greg Jones in the second round....

[Brett A]

If one of the top QB's falls to 5 we may get a big trade offer or what about if the Pats win the superbowl and then want to trade up and get a RB would you take the 21st and 32 pick + a 3rd for the 5th pick? Just some thoughts.

Brett

[Yudolindo]

The Chargers would have to be crazy to pass on Eli Manning, but Marty may just be that and trade the pick. The Raiders will take Ben Roethlisberger or the best available WR. The Cards...them I Don't know about. My guess would be to take Ben Roethlisberger if he is around, perhaps a WR, or trade back and take a RB. The Giants, will take the best O-linemen in the draft: Shawn Andrews or Robert Gallery, take your pick. That leaves us with quite a bit of talent on the board. I would not take Jones at five, but I less hostile to the idea of taking Jackson.

Sean Taylor is a monster, but as has Spence pointed out, we may not be able to afford him is we intend to keep Bailey and Smoot around.

[Farbod]

Kevin Jones has speed, thats it!!! He is weak and isnt the type of bruising back Gibbs likes to use. We dont need a scat back, Spurrier is gone remember? We need a strong bulky back... IMHO the only two back we should be thinking about in the draft is Chris Perry in the 2nd...

Both Jones' are huge gambles and arent the type of back the skins need...

All you Vtech fans need to put ur bias aside and get a clue!

Huddle report on Perry...

Perry
The scouts are going to downgrade him because he can be caught from behind. That is a bunch of crap. Do you know how many Hall of Fame running backs could get caught from behind? Now I'm not saying that Chris will be in the Hall of Fame -- please! I am just saying that a back not having breakaway speed does not determine if he will be successful in the NFL. I mean, after all, did Walter Payton have breakaway speed? I don't think so. Chris is not Walter Payton, but he is a very good back with all the skills that he will need to be a successful RB in the pros. Chris is an every down back because he can block and catch. He should be able to run the ball 25 to 30 times a game and average between 3.8 and 4.2 a carry. You tell me what offense doesn't need a back like that? I call him Mr. Dependable because IMO that's what he will be in the NFL.

[Yudolindo]

Thanks for correcting the double post!

[HollywoodKolt]

Originally posted by Farbod
Perry
The scouts are going to downgrade him because he can be caught from behind. That is a bunch of crap. Do you know how many Hall of Fame running backs could get caught from behind? Now I'm not saying that Chris will be in the Hall of Fame -- please! I am just saying that a back not having breakaway speed does not determine if he will be successful in the NFL. I mean, after all, did Walter Payton have breakaway speed? I don't think so. Chris is not Walter Payton, but he is a very good back with all the skills that he will need to be a successful RB in the pros. Chris is an every down back because he can block and catch. He should be able to run the ball 25 to 30 times a game and average between 3.8 and 4.2 a carry. You tell me what offense doesn't need a back like that? I call him Mr. Dependable because IMO that's what he will be in the NFL.

I love the sound of that. I'd really love Perry in Washington

[Farbod]

Think about it... We trade down and pick up another 2nd or 3rd...

We end up with Udeze, Perry, and another 2nd round pick to get a DB or a DT... That would be awsome!

[HollywoodKolt]

I like the way you think Farbod. While I'd love to have Tommie Harris or Sean Taylor, getting either of them and Perry is not too likely. I'd love to have Udeze, Perry, and perhaps with the additional second Igor Olshansky (The Pain from the Ukraine) out of oregon.

[Odyn]

Steven Jackson is the best rb in the draft, period.

[truant]

didn't steven jackson have the lowest average yards per carry of the top 20 backs in college football this year?

I don't like that at all.

[Farbod]

Originally posted by Odyn
Steven Jackson is the best rb in the draft, period.

Two words: Eddie George

Will avg 3.5 yards a carry and never give u a run over 15 yards... Cant block, cant catch, no vision, just size and speed... Waste of a pick if u ask me...

[truant]

Snippets on Kevin Jones:

Pros: Has speed! Can take it to the outside but also is tough up the middle. Fluid, elusive, good lean, balance, & vision. Patient & and very punishing. A very fluid RB with a great build, athleticism, and tons of upside. A franchise RB.

Cons: Needs to work on securing the ball, has shown a little hesitancy at times hitting the hole, has not much experience in the passing game, and has had some minor injuries in the past but nothing of major concern. All easily correctable.


*JUNIOR PROSPECT – DECLARED FOR THE DRAFT
Kevin Jones is a tremendous prospect as a franchise running back to build an offense around. He is man destined for a great career in the NFL. He is inexperienced in the passing game but has such great tools that I am sure given time will develop fine in this area as well. A very likeable young man who will give you every thing he has every play, every game. Tremendous upside and very coachable. He will not be on the draft boards very long after the draft starts. A top 10 pick for sure and possibly a top 5 selection.

[HollywoodKolt]

Originally posted by Farbod
Two words: Eddie George

Will avg 3.5 yards a carry and never give u a run over 15 yards... Cant block, cant catch, no vision, just size and speed... Waste of a pick if u ask me...

George was one of the league's best RB's for a few years. But he's a strait up power back, who got over 400 carries one year, he's going to wear down, and he did it quickly. George has played in every game for the last three years or something, for a RB in the NFL that's insane.

That said, I'd still rather go D-line in the first and Chris Perry in the second

[Yudolindo]

Originally posted by HollywoodKolt
George has played in every game for the last three years or something, for a RB in the NFL that's insane.


Actually, I don't think he has missed a start! If we draft an Eddie George, I would be very happy.

[SkinsGuru]

Both Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones are great PROSPECTS. Either could be great . . . both could suck. Steven Jackson is better suited for a Gibbs style offense . . . in my opinion.

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Steven Jackson:

Pros: He has good speed and is a powerful & punishing back that is elusive & will use a stiff arm. He can carry the pile and is a work horse with excellent size/speed combo. Patient, uses bockers good, good vision, Outstanding prospect.

Cons: Needs refinement in the passing game. Has not had extensive experience as a receiver out of the backfield and will need work to improve his techniques in this area, even though he has shown the ability to a force in this area also.
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Kevin Jones

Pros: Has speed! Can take it to the outside but also is tough up the middle. Fluid, elusive, good lean, balance, & vision. Patient & and very punishing. A very fluid RB with a great build, athleticism, and tons of upside. A franchise RB.

Cons: Needs to work on securing the ball, has shown a little hesitancy at times hitting the hole, has not much experience in the passing game, and has had some minor injuries in the past but nothing of major concern. All easily correctable.
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Here are a couple of more decent backs we could get used to talking about.
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Carnell (Cadillac) Williams

Pros: Cadillac is a explosive and powerful runner who also has soft hands and is valuable as a receiver out of the backfield. Patient & has great vision, he is elusive and has a quick burst to get around defenders. Excellent balance.

Cons: A little inexperienced in that he broke his left fibula in the Florida game in 2002 and missed the last 6 games. Has had to share carries with 2 other fine RBs (Brown & Jacobs). Could add 5 to 10 pounds of muscle mass on his big frame.
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Greg Jones

Pros: Greg is a powerful & strong RB who is an angry and aggressive bruising back that loves to run over defenders. Plays with low pad level, good speed, balance, cuts, change of direction, & experienced. A top RB prospect.

Cons: Inexperienced as a receiver do to type of offensive system he played in. Had surgery on a torn ACL in 2002 missing the last 4 games. Needs to be more aggressive when blocking. Combine will be critical for Greg.
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Michael Turner:

Pros: He is a strong powerful inside runner with great speed to take it to the outside. Has excellent balance, is elusive, a good receiver with KR experience, and big play ability. Shows great athleticism and is a great all-purpose back.

Cons: Needs work on blocking techniques, footwork in open field running, and although a good receiver in college, could refine his techniques. A concern is the lack of quality competition he has faced in the MAC and it may affect some scouts.
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Chris Perry:

Pros: He is an excellent all-purpose RB who is a powerful downhill runner and is great on screen passes. Good vision, hard worker, & a tough punishing runner. Ideal size with decent speed, he has good change of direction. Good footwork.

Cons: Chris has questionable speed around the corner, needs to improve blocking, run with his pads a little lower, work on hitting the hole a little quicker, and refine his downfield receiving techniques a little. All easily corrected.
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Info from http://www.nflfans.com/draft/

[PainterBoy]

Some quick thoughts on various posts throughout this thread.

Eddie George has started in 128 games in a row - which is quite amazing for a RB in the NFL. However, near the goal line he is taken out in favor of Chris Brown, so obviously George is nearing the end of his career. However, who wouldn't love to have an Eddie George career type back out of this draft. The problem with running backs is they are so hard to predict coming out of college. Dayne holds the all time record in yardage - how good is he now? No one would give a dime for him. See Kijana Carter on what an injury can do. Tim Biakabutuka was a can't miss and was taken #6 2 picks BEFORE Eddie George - how great was that call?

RBs are hard to pick because they play against different competition around the conferences and play in systems that feature different style backs. But with that being said I think Jones (Kevin), Jackson and Perry will all be good NFL backs. However I think Jones carries the biggest upside - which in the NFL could mean biggest bust. But to say Jones has speed and nothing else is ludicrous! I watched him run flat over Sean Taylor - Miami's all-world safety. (As a matter of fact - Harris (WVU back, Kevin Jones and Greg Jones all ran over Taylor during the year - to say he hits like a LB is a far fetch. I believe Roy Williams from OU (Dallas now) was the stronger safety coming out of college.) Not to mention after the first 1 or 2 games in which he danced around a lot trying to make the big run, he started hitting the holes hard and consistently. He was very good near the goal line when the play was a dive up the middle. Obviously Jackson is the bigger back but Dayne was a big back too. He reminds me of William Green from Boston College two years ago - who is very up and down in the league.

I would love to see the Redskins trade down for additional first round picks and possible later round picks. But if the Skins stay at the 5th, I would love to see a DT or DE selected. I believe Randy Starks out of Maryland would be a good DT to select if we can drop into the tens or twenty pick range.

To answer the original post I see the first four picks as follows:

Manning - S.D.
Fitz - Oakland (if he can come out)
Roethenberg - Arizona ( I know I'm butchering the spelling)
OT out of Ark or Iowa - N.Y. (Gallary or something like that and drawing a blank on the Ark OT)

If Fitzgerald doesn't come out then I see Roethenberg (Miami, OH QB) going to Oakland. I don't see Roy Williams going in the top 5 picks - he is in the 6 -10 range, IMO. Taylor would then slide into the top 4 picks.

[Death_Venom]

hmmm.......Perry & Turner sound interesting........and Williams as well........

[HollywoodKolt]

The skins can't trade down for addition firsts unless we trade with New England, because they are the only ones with two firsts, or trade for a first next year (something I would like to see the FO do if they're trading down).


Arkansas OT is Shawn Andrews.

[tyrone_rush_fan]

I've watched them both, but it's still hard to compare Jackson to KJones, they have such different styles. Some mocks have Jackson first, some have Jones, so basically they're pretty even- right now.

I know you guys don't want to hear about combines, and I know how over-rated they are, but it's gonna be hard to ignore if one back runs 4.45-4.5 and the other runs 4.36-4.4.

So, IMO, after the workouts, there will be a pretty clear favorite as to who the first back chosen will be.

I edited the 40 times, instead I put the range I've come across on draft sites.

[PainterBoy]

I will have to admit Kevin Jones is not as fast as they say. While we are on the subject neither is DeAngelo Hall, CB from VT. VT is notoriously exaggerating the 40 times.

I have no idea how fast Steven Jackson is either. But I will concur mock drafts have these two alternating who the top back taken is.

Thanks for the name on the Arkansas tackle.

[Farbod]

Do you guys actually watch the games or just watch the morons on ESPN talk?

Eddie George is the most overrated RB in the history of the game. He has averaged more than 4.0 yards a season twice! and both those times at 4.1 yards. His career avg is a wopping 3.7 yds a carry.... Yeah he is a workhorse, but thats because he runs 3 yards and falls down every freaking time. He hasnt had over a 30 yard run allllllll year... NOT ONE!!! The guy cant even avg 3.5 the past 3 years... He runs too upright and is slow... Hes not even that strong, he falls after one freaking hit...

I'll take Chris Perry, reminds me of Earnest Byner...

[truant]

I'll be shocked if D'angelo hall doesn't run a 4.3 40. He is that fast, i don't know how they can fib that.

[Patrick]

After the combines - Turner moves ahead of KJ. .... I'd hate to see that happen because I'd like to pickup Turner with our #2.

[RichardBradley]

I beleive that we will get a RB in free agency but if we don't I see Greg Jones as the back that is comeing out that fits Gibbs style the most

[PainterBoy]

I'll be shocked if D'angelo hall doesn't run a 4.3 40. He is that fast, i don't know how they can fib that.

VT reported he ran a 4.15 this past year. He probably is capable of 4.3?. But not a 4.1 or 4.2 something. KJ will be in the 4.4 range which is not the 4.2? VT had him at.

[RichardBradley]

I don't care how fast Hall can run he is overated as a cover corner

[chinje]

i think the raiders need a wr with their number one pick any
word about the kid out of pittsburgh going pro two years
early or is he going to stay in school?

[higgybaby]

I can see Oakland taking Sean 'Taylor

[NYCfanatic]

with all this talk about Winslow, how come nobody is mentioning that we picked up Byron Chamberlain? Is he staying with the team? Has he lost it? The guy did have a pro bowl year...

If it's possible he turns it around, why go after Winslow? I like Taylor with our first and Greg Jones with the second and pick up a Gardner and Kearse if we can afford them.

[VirginiaRedskin]

This is the latest report on Turner from the Senior Bowl practices. This is often a better indicator than the NFL Combine since it is actual football with pads.

"while Jones and Tapeh can catch, Northern Illinois RB Michael Turner can't..period!! Turner isn't helped by the fact that while he is fast, he isn't very athletic or flexible; he's also another pure N-S runner without much creativity once he starts upfield..."