democratic canidates

[suppitty]

who do u want to win the democratic primaries?

[Yudolindo]

Well, they are all slaves to one special interest or another, so take your pick. Dean, because he will loose…Kerry on the other hand has a good chance of beating Bush, but takes the most corporate money out of them all, so I guess it depends on what side of the fence you are on and how much you are bothered by special interests.

[Odyn]

I don't know if any Democrats can really beat Bush. Bush has the incumbancy law behind him. Incumbents tend to be elected more than challengers. Bush I lost because he f***ed the economy. Bush II has:

Kept us out of depression following September 11th
Taken out the last true dictator (Hussein)
Liberated 2 countries
Passed some decent tax cuts (could do better)
passed prescription drug bills
created a department designed to protect us

Say what you will about the Patriot Act but I have a few Q's about that:
1) Who has been violated by the Patriot Act?
2) How many terrorists have we caught because of the Patriot Act?

Kerry is a Vet basher, a hypocrite, a Sox fan
Dean is the Anti Christ
Edwards is a Southern trial lawyer
Clark nearly started a nuclear war in Bosnia and is a Republican

[suppitty]

dean has no chance anymore. he needs to give up and give his money to edwards who just won sc and is the best canidate. kerry is an aristocrat. clark is an idiot and should drop out. edwards is positive and gives the best speech. edwards and kerry may get money from special intrests but bush is the guy who gets the most ever. 3x the amount of what all the other canidates have raised in their careers in 4 years! everything has gone wrong since bush has been president. iraq is worse off because as soon as they get to vote, the religious leader of the biggest group will win. 500 bil+ to 500bil-.

[Yudolindo]

Uh, I think you will have a very hard time convincing anyone that Iraq is not better off with Saddam Hussein deposed. I doubt Iraq will become an Islamist state, as they have something the region for the most part lacks: an educated middle class. Moreover, Its unfortunate to fall into the trap that because the country has a Shiite majority that they are destined for Islamism: most of the world’s Islamism owes its ideological foundation to Sunni Egypt, not Shiite Iran. That being said, Edwards is by far the biggest "aristocrat" of the group and gets most of his money from trial lawyers. Jee, they are much better than Pfizer…

[suppitty]

um edward's dad was a mill worker. kerry and dean grew up in very rich families. th efact is bush lied, and there are no weapons. missiles in 45 minutes? please they couldnt shoot anything off that would reach the border of the country.

[Yudolindo]

Having bad intelligence is not lying. If you are advocating we put Saddam back, good luck: the world is much better off with him deposed. Edwards is a rich trial lawyer; yeah, a common mans man. Kerry served his country in Vietnam, so while he may have been rich, he at least has guts.

[Ford]

I just got back from South Carolina volunteering for Edwards for a week and I may be takin the greyhound down to Tennessee to help out tonight if that answers your question ;)

Odyn -- you can talk about Edwards fighting for people who had been wronged (feel free to study the history of his cases) all you want .. he would love to have a debate about working background and how he came to prominence with "silver spoon" Bush ..

Kerry people -- call your campaign and tell them to stop running a dirty campaign and making misleading push calls .. especially to our head of research (good one) .. we're running a clean campaign and will prevail in the end. If nominated Kerry will not win a single southern state .. he has absolutely no electability .. he cannot swing traditionally red states .. Edwards can. Kerry's showing this desperation in BS dirty tacticts in the south. It needs to stop.

[Spence]

Kerry will win the nomination easily and the election in the Fall. And by the way, he's not a Vet-basher. That's idiotic. John Kerry volunteered for service in the Navy during the Vietnam War, where he served as skipper of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. Lt. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with Combat V, three Purple Hearts, the Presidential Unit Citation for Extraordinary Heroism, the National Defense Service Medal, the Vietnam Service Medal, three Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medals, and the Combat Action Ribbon. He is a cofounder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and a life member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. In the United States Senate, he has led the fight to investigate the fate of POW/MIAs in Vietnam, treat and compensate victims of Agent Orange and study the cause of war-related illnesses in Gulf War veterans.

[Ford]

Originally posted by Spence
John Kerry volunteered for service in the Navy during the Vietnam War, where he served as skipper of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. Lt. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with Combat V, three Purple Hearts, the Presidential Unit Citation for Extraordinary Heroism, the National Defense Service Medal, the Vietnam Service Medal, three Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medals, and the Combat Action Ribbon.

All that and he didn't even win the veteran vote in South Carolina. He cannot win in the South, he will not win in the South, John Edwards needs to be the choice of the democrats if we want to kick Bush out and keep him out.

[Yudolindo]

Originally posted by Ford
All that and he didn't even win the veteran vote in South Carolina. He cannot win in the South, he will not win in the South, John Edwards needs to be the choice of the democrats if we want to kick Bush out and keep him out.

I am inclined to agree with you: Edwards is really seen (as far as I can tell, and you know much better than I) as the south's "native son." As good or bad as Kerry may be, he won't beat Edwards or perhaps even Bush in the south.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by Odyn
I don't know if any Democrats can really beat Bush. Bush has the incumbancy law behind him. Incumbents tend to be elected more than challengers. Bush I lost because he f***ed the economy. Bush II has:

Kept us out of depression following September 11th
Taken out the last true dictator (Hussein)
Liberated 2 countries
Passed some decent tax cuts (could do better)
passed prescription drug bills
created a department designed to protect us

Say what you will about the Patriot Act but I have a few Q's about that:
1) Who has been violated by the Patriot Act?
2) How many terrorists have we caught because of the Patriot Act?

Kerry is a Vet basher, a hypocrite, a Sox fan
Dean is the Anti Christ
Edwards is a Southern trial lawyer
Clark nearly started a nuclear war in Bosnia and is a Republican

How do you know that YOU have not been violated by the Patriot Act?

[Spence]

Please. Which southern states will John Edwards going take from George W Bush? All Bush has to do is mention Edwards' support for gay adoption and half the vote Edwards is counting on will disappear overnight. Florida and Louisiana will be in play in the Fall. That's it.

The key swing states last night were Arizona, New Mexico, and Missouri. Bush took Arizona and Missouri narrowly in 2000 and Gore took New Mexico narrowly. Kerry won them all last night by double digit margins.

Edwards is a fine candidate, but we're talking about a guy who, when he announced his presidential candidacy, had less than a 50% approval rating in his own state.

South smouth. If Gore had won New Hampshire he'd be planning his re-election campaign right now.

[Ford]

Well, he'd start with South Carolina. As conservative as it is, he would win. I say this because in South Carolina you don't register as a democrat or republican ... every house I hit, every call I made, every place I went .. there was no targeting democratic candidates. I talked to republicans, democrats, and independents ... and I'm telling you from the response I got, the conversations I had, and the problems people have with the gov't today that I heard: Edwards will take SC and at least a couple more southern states.. Bush is particularly vulnerable in a state like SC where textile mills are shutting down .. the state is basically broke, and the federal gov't is doing more to screw them over more than to help. Please name all the democratic candidates who have gone on to win the general election and didn't win a single state in the south ... you won't find one. South shmouth? Can you say Michael Dukakis?

[Spence]

As I noted, Florida and Louisiana will be in play in the Fall. Both are southern states.

Ford, I'll make a bet with you. It's really a no-lose proposition for both of us. Neither of us will lose a dime. Here it is.

I'll give you $500 if John Edwards beats George W Bush in South Carolina in the general election. If George W Bush wins South Carolina, you give me $5. That's a 100-to-1 ratio in your favor. Can't say better than that, can you?

Here is why it is a safe bet for both of us. It'll never even come up. The only way John Edwards will make it to the November elections is as John Kerry's running mate. However, on the off chance Edwards does make it to the top of the ticket, you should take my bet. You'll only lose $5.

[Ford]

I'd also like to point out that as Edwards starts focusing his funds on Southern states Kerry (and Clark) will be in serious trouble. Kerry outspent us 2 to 1 in Iowa, more than 2 to 1 (I think 3 to 1 but I'm not sure of the statistic at this time .. I know Dean outspent us 3 to 1 in Iowa I may be getting those numbers confused), and as this becomes a 2 candidate race and Edwards gets more publicity and more of a chance to appeal to different groups of voters and start focusing on Kerry's spotty at best voting record .. this will be a different contest. Kerry people will only hurt themseleves by getting overconfident at this point as Dean people did before .. and this race is far from over.

[Ford]

Spence ... it's a bet. By the way -- Edwards won't accept a VP job with someone who has carried out the nasty tacticts that Kerry has but luckily that situation won't come up as we'll be at the top of the ticket ;)

[Spence]

Originally posted by Ford
Spence ... it's a bet. By the way -- Edwards won't accept a VP job with someone who has carried out the nasty tacticts that Kerry has but luckily that situation won't come up as we'll be at the top of the ticket ;) Excellent! I hope Edwards is not offered the job, since Bill Richardson, Bob Graham, or Mary Landrieu would all be much stronger runningmates than Edwards.

But that gives me another idea. One more bet.

I'll bet you $20 that if John Edwards is offered the Veep by Kerry he will accept it. Deal?

[Spence]

Ford, Edwards cannot even afford to campaign in Michigan or Washington. Those are the big prizes later this week and Edwards will be lucky to finish third in both of them. [Even that might be too much for him to hope, though I think he'll get third place in Michigan.] Michigan is by far the biggest prize so far and the last poll I saw [Detroit News] had Kerry with a 44 point lead there. There are 128 delegates at stake in that one state, which is a lot more than Edwards has accumulated in all the primaries so far. Maine, which holds is contest this Sunday, will not be contested by Edwards.

Edwards is battling Clark for scraps in Tennessee and Virginia. Not exactly the best way to convince people you are more than a regional candidate. Last night, Kerry won in the north, the east, and the southwest. He finished first in five contests, second in one and third in one. He never got less than 27% of the vote in any contest. He got at least 50% of the vote in three states last night. No one else has done that at all in this primary season. Kerry's other two wins last night both came by double digit margins, wherein he took more than 40% of the vote. John Edwards won in the state where he was born. Unfortunately for him, he won't be able to count on that in the other 49 states.

Of the 269 delegates up for grabs last night, Kerry won 144. Edwards took 66.

Those are the facts, like 'em or not.

[Spence]

And one more fact: John Edwards finished in fourth place in three contests last night.

[Ford]

Southern states will give Edwards momentum. There's only been one so far and Kerry got destroyed .. twice as many delegates .. got beat among veterans. Hell, one of my friends from the campaign went out to a precinct in spartansville and got 85 of the 93 people who voted there to vote for Edwards. That's how good it was in the upstate, and he'll use that momentum to challange kerry for larger states like california. All Edwards needs to do is beat Clark in Tennessee and Virginia, making it a two man race .. and then he can pick apart Kerry's vulnerable weak voting record, and take Kerry out. If Edwards starts getting the press as the main challanger, he will do alot better with it than Kerry could ever dream to. Edwards is stronger on domestic issues, has better electability, sat on the intelligence commitee, and has far more charisma and is much better with people than Kerry. When given the equal press coverage, he'll surge. Howard Dean tanked, so can Kerry. John Edwards has been doing things his whole life pessimists deemed impossible; he grew up with a mill worker for a father and was the first in his family to go to college and worked his way into a successful career; he defeated the Jessie Helm's machine in North Carolina and pulled an amazing upset that everyone deemed impossible, people said he had no chance to beat Dean or Gephardt in Iowa, he did. Now people are gonna try and say he can't take out Kerry, but they're calling this one far too early.

[Ford]

Another note: Please tell John Kerry to stop ripping Edwards off. After being nasty and sniping at everyone he could, Kerry starts saying he's running a posative campaign after he sees it's working for Edwards? Admirable. Now he's talking about 2 Americas in his speeches .. i wonder where he heard that? Oh and that program of a free first year of college if you work he now says he endorses after he saw how well people responded towards Edwards' introduction of the plan (feel free to go online and read Real Solutions sometime .. no other candidate gives you as a detailed a look at their views and plan because they have no plan, they just attack eachother), he didn't come up with that one ...

This guy is a flimsy who goes with whatever he thinks is gonna please people and could never make a tough decision if he needed to. Listen to him try and explain his war vote sometime and go back and see how his rediculous explinations change over time. Edwards made a vote and stuck with it .. it's called being a genuine person, a quality that Kerry lacks.

Go botox.

[Ford]

Originally posted by Spence
Ford, Edwards cannot even afford to campaign in Michigan or Washington.

Well, maybe he can't afford quite the same things Howard Dean and John Kerry can since he wasn't someone who preached for campaign finance reform and then OPTED OUT of it. Edwards also hasn't taken a single dime from a washington lobbyist and is the only candidate that can legitimately claim to not be swayed by special interests.

[Spence]

Originally posted by Ford
Well, maybe he can't afford quite the same things Howard Dean and John Kerry can since he wasn't someone who preached for campaign finance reform and then OPTED OUT of it. Edwards also hasn't taken a single dime from a washington lobbyist and is the only candidate that can legitimately claim to not be swayed by special interests. Ford, Edwards' entire campaign is financed by trial lawyers. Speaking as a lawyer myself, if you think they give him that money out of the goodness of their hearts, then you had better take care of your own heart because you're going to get it broken. Not swayed by special interests? What do you think trial lawyers are? Edwards's job since he got to Washington has been to kill tort reform. Not that I really have a problem with that, but at least I see it for what it is. You're young so I won't hold that one against you, but my advice is that you should not utter something like that outside of an Edwards campaign headquarters. People will laugh at you.

And I hope you don't believe Edwards abides by campaign spending limits because he wants to. Dean abandoned them because he was raising huge amounts of money. Kerry abandoned them because he had to in order to compete with Dean. It's smart. Bush isn't abiding by them. He'll use his money advantage to pummel the Democratic candidate all summer. Edwards would not get a fresh infusion of money from federal matching funds until August, after the convention. Until then he'd be helpless. Dean or Kerry could fight back. This matters. If you don't think so, research what happened in 1996. That's just what Clinton did to Dole.

[Spence]

Ford, you need to learn how campaigns work. All campaigns steal good material from each other. Just like the NFL. You think Edwards didn't rip off Howard Dean? You bet he did. They all have, once they figured out Dean's stuff worked. Edwards has got a fine platform. I should know because I was reciting virtually the entire thing to people back in 1992 when I worked for the first Clinton campaign. Edwards' stuff is just ripped off from Clinton. Nothing wrong with that; if you're going to steal, steal from the best.

I'm not sure how far you want to pursue this war vote issue. Both candidates voted for it. Both say the think Bush screwed up. Edwards was on the Senate Intelligence Committee. That's a good point, I'm glad you brought it up. The Chair of that committee was Bob Graham. Graham looked at the Iraq intelligence the Bush admin was showing him and said it was unconvincing. He cited that at the major reason he voted AGAINST war authorization. Edwards has cited it as a major reason he voted in favor of war authorization. They both saw the same intelligence. What did Bob Graham see that made him right and what did John Edwards see that made him wrong?

In any case, for both Kerry and Edwards the Iraq War authorization was about covering their political asses. A very wise decision to make, as it has become clear that whatever the public thinks of the mess over there, they are not impressed with Howard Dean's "NO NO NO" solution.

You should take care with some of these attacks on other Dem candidates, Ford. Remember who our real enemy is. It is easy to get carried away when you're working on a campaign. Take a few tips from your candidate and ease up on the poison.

[suppitty]

god this is great. 1st of all when edwards wins both va and tennesse, that will combine for as much or more then the delegates kerry will get in michigan. dean has a real chance in washington. kucinich could win 20-25% in maine. last i checked edwards pretty much let kerry have missouri, but still grabbed 27%. kerry runs all kinds of ads in south carolina and doesnt even come close. outspent edwards in iowa, and beat him by only 5%. actually edwards has been outspent by almost everyone. he is ammasing a huge amount of money, and is the best speaker and campaigner. while kerry is busy getting botox and telling his vietnam story, edwards is gaining more and more support.
u want some swing states in the south. try virginia, nc, sc, ga, fla, and lousiana. then we can win iowa. the republicans cant pick up a major state anywhere. all the democrats have to do is get 1 of the states i just mentioned. kerry will not win any of those states in the primary.

[Ford]

Originally posted by suppitty
god this is great. 1st of all when edwards wins both va and tennesse, that will combine for as much or more then the delegates kerry will get in michigan. dean has a real chance in washington. kucinich could win 20-25% in maine. last i checked edwards pretty much let kerry have missouri, but still grabbed 27%. kerry runs all kinds of ads in south carolina and doesnt even come close. outspent edwards in iowa, and beat him by only 5%. actually edwards has been outspent by almost everyone. he is ammasing a huge amount of money, and is the best speaker and campaigner. while kerry is busy getting botox and telling his vietnam story, edwards is gaining more and more support.
u want some swing states in the south. try virginia, nc, sc, ga, fla, and lousiana. then we can win iowa. the republicans cant pick up a major state anywhere. all the democrats have to do is get 1 of the states i just mentioned. kerry will not win any of those states in the primary. :goodpost: :banger: :Partyup: :beer: :bsmile:

[Seebs]

Originally posted by Yudolindo
Uh, I think you will have a very hard time convincing anyone that Iraq is not better off with Saddam Hussein deposed. I doubt Iraq will become an Islamist state, as they have something the region for the most part lacks: an educated middle class. Moreover, Its unfortunate to fall into the trap that because the country has a Shiite majority that they are destined for Islamism: most of the world’s Islamism owes its ideological foundation to Sunni Egypt, not Shiite Iran. That being said, Edwards is by far the biggest "aristocrat" of the group and gets most of his money from trial lawyers. Jee, they are much better than Pfizer…

Iran had a very well educated middle class...