ESPN is reporting....

[CarMike]

That we're about to aquire Mark Brunell.....

[rskinsfan10]

Weren't they reporting him to Miami just a couple of days ago?

[akhhorus]

where are they reporting this?

[Skaggsboy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1729627

[Skaggsboy]

boy it sounds like they want him starting over ramsey...and possibly a second rounder???? i dont think i like this very much...we would have to pick up his contract too

[SkinsRock36]

Wow! I still hope ramsey is our starter tho. But would not mind mark as a backup at all.

[CarMike]

If we have to deal our #2 choice that changes the entire draft for us. No way will we take a TE, RB, or a S with that pick. Man, I don't think this is worth it....

[goterps1986]

OH NO...here we go again!! It's no wonder we don't need a GM because we always trade away our picks! A 2nd rounder? That better be wrong. Defense defense defense with the picks!! Why bother to pick up that scout from the Panthers if we won't have any picks? And this will crush Ramsey's confidence! I guess Gibbs didn't like he what he saw out of Ramsey and I'm sure that's what Ramsey is thinking. They were going to cut him anyway. I could see MAYBE giving up a low round pick for him but I don't really understand it with Ramsey here.

[hail2skins]

I don't like the sounds of this either. We're giving up our 2nd round pick which would leave us with what 3/4 picks in the draft. I figured Gibbs would bring in a veteran QB but I thought it would be to backup Ramsey. If this deal is made, I think Ramsey would be become the backup. If it's done, I don't believe we would assume his current contract. I think they would have to work out another one.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
Weren't they reporting him to Miami just a couple of days ago?

Yeah, that article mentioned it.

[Skaggsboy]

the second round pick is just speculation though...if we could get brunnell for cheaply (possibly even a swap of first rounders to #9) and restructure his contract he no doubt would be able to help the team in some capacity

[hail2skins]

I don't think Brunnel would come cheap. Especially since there's interest from other teams.

[hail2skins]

Well, people wanted some fresh news and now you have it. Discuss away.

[28thegreat]

Once again I think we've allowed the money thing to get in the way of the true possibilities of this move. If Brunnell does come to Washington - it would be the first move of the Gibbs era other than coaching selection. That is big in my opinion. Coach G has said that one of his priorities was a quality "back-up." I trust his decision. That competition would be good for Patrick. And if Mark beats him out in training camp...wouldn't that mean that the better man won. Maybe not the way things were done under the Spurrier style of coaching, but it definitely is the Gibbs way. The best person for the job is the one who does the best job.

Also, just a thought, wasn't Doug Williams brought in initially as a "backup"? Somebody help me on that one.

[Towson Skins]

If the Skins do get Brunell and give up there 2nd round pick, I think it is pretty much guaranteed that Gibbs wont select at number 5.

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by goterps1986
OH NO...here we go again!! It's no wonder we don't need a GM because we always trade away our picks! A 2nd rounder? That better be wrong. Defense defense defense with the picks!! Why bother to pick up that scout from the Panthers if we won't have any picks? And this will crush Ramsey's confidence! I guess Gibbs didn't like he what he saw out of Ramsey and I'm sure that's what Ramsey is thinking. They were going to cut him anyway. I could see MAYBE giving up a low round pick for him but I don't really understand it with Ramsey here.

Do you actually think that they(Snyder & Cerrato) would make this trade without running it by Gibbs?

[akhhorus]

And if it meant swapping 1st rounders with Jacksonville, I would probably do it

[PennSkinsFan]

It almost certainly means three things IMO:

1. We are dealing the fifth pick in the draft down to pick up more picks

2. a QB controversy, despite what anyone says, will exist.

3. There is shaken enthusiasm for Ramsey

[akhhorus]

I agree, also I wouldnt be surprised if they make that trade with the Patriots for their first rounders and a second or to Houston. If the trade is to swap first rounders with Jax, then I think it's a given that they make the trade with the Patriots

[openflank7]

Just came across this article on espn.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1729627

Looks like we found our experienced veteran quarterback.

[hail2skins]

Thanks, there was already a thread on it. I'm merging it with the other one.

[Farbod]

This is a huge mistake... Ramsey doesnt need some old dinged up sour QB looking over his shoulder... Brunell couldnt be a gentleman in Jax, what makes you think he can be one here... If we trade anything higher than a 3rd, even a swap at #1.... This will be a huge blow to our hopes for this season...

[Skaggsrules]

I think this trade would be stupid, Ramsey, when he had time, showed he can do good things, and Hasselback can play a few games if Ramsey goes down. We don't need Brunell. If we trade a 2nd rounder, it better be a player who plays a postion that our 2nd round pick would have played.

[PennSkinsFan]

Like I said folks, there are a few things at play here. We are fans. We love Ramsey, but remember one thing, Joe Gibbs is Joe Gibbs. He has won three Superbowls with three different QBs, he knows what type, what style, and what kind of QB he needs to win, and maybe the confidence in Ramsey is not there with the new staff just yet. Brunnel may serve in the role of mentor to Patrick.

[Va.SkinFan]

This trade would not be the best choice for Gibbs. I know he has been out of football for awhile but this would be his first bad decision. I like the idea of trading 1st round picks with Houston and getting 2 extra draft picks. That has been a rumor.

[PainterBoy]

I sincerely hope they have a block buster deal in place for the #5 pick to recoup all the picks we continue to give away. Regardless of what people say, we need young players to mold and develop. We continue to go after offense when the defense has all the holes. Last year our #1 pick went to the Jets for Coles (offense) 2nd round pick was Jacobs (offense). The D needs to have some young talent as well to develop especially on the Dline.

Our 2nd rounder for Brunell is a mistake especially if he is to serve as a backup.

[Odyn]

What do you think Brunell is going to be brought in to do? Just sit there? He will be like a coach to Ramsey guiding him. I definitely see the Houston trade as a possibility now. Lets be optimistic in the situation.

[AshlynSkins]

I'm sorry but does anyone remember Doug Williams? (I'm sure if we had the internet then that many would of us would have crapped our pants) and see what he did for us right, I for 1 am not a big fan of Hasselbeck as a back-up, with the possibility of adding a veteran QB like Brunell to this line up I'm for 1 happy if the deal does happen, and remember Gibbs said just a few weeks ago that character was what he was looking for in his players, and Brunell is a great character guy IMHO.

[akhhorus]

Before we all get brunell redskins jersey, no-one else is reporting this. Not even the Washington Post, which usually wold if the rumor was this strong. Let's see some confirmation before we get all agitated or excited

[AshlynSkins]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/auto/epaper/editions/saturday/sports_0442b6a3064ca0aa005b.html (http://)

while I would love to see Brunell here as a back-up this article is very confusing to me, it is saying that Brunell will be released by the Jags, if so why trade for him then?, other than realizing that he might not sign with us if released.

go to: www.theredzone.org and read it.

[akhhorus]

the interesting thing about the above article is that Leigh Steinberg, the agent who is supposedly in negotiations with the skins is talkking about the Dolphins. Who knows what's gonna happen.

[Counter Trey]

My gut tells me that this would be a bad deal, when we got Doug Williams (a deserving hall of famer IMO), who had one good half-year here (it was a great half-year mind you but only a half year, the next years were pretty forgettable).
I don't think we gave anything up for him plus that was before free agency and I think the salary cap so draft picks weren't as valiable as they are today. But if this is true and does go down for the 41st overall pick, we must put our trust in that Mr. Gibbs either wants this or has ok'd it to happen.
It also means that most likely we will trade down in the draft for more picks which will probably make all of the Udeze, Starks, Wilfolk draft people happy.
If the deal goes through, I will support the move because Lord knows Mr. Gibbs knows a lot more about football than I do.

[skinsone]

I do not like this trade, if it is true. Brunell is past his prime and a 2nder is too high. How many years does Brunell have left? Maybe 2-3. We need to stay with Ramsey. I think Ramsey has the talent to be a successful QB in the NFL. The once he has a line that will protect him and a running game his talent will show. He has a lot of the tools you look for in a OB. He is tough as nails, he is patient, has a strong arm, and is smart.

[ShaggySkins]

I'm so torn on this. I really think Mark Brunell is a VERY good QB and is the type that can take a team to a Super Bowl. Ramsey showed so great signs last season especially as a leader but he also showed some weaknesses.

One thing that this makes me question is how well Ramsey is recovering from foot surgery??? Maybe thats a reason we are giving up so much for Brunell. If Ramsey isn't helathy we could really use a experienced QB like Brunell.

Unfortunatley I do feel that if this team is going to compete for a SB in the next year or 2 it probably won't be with Ramsey as the QB. And thats not to badmouth Ramsey because the kid is tough as nails but we need to remember he really in 2 years of playing in the NFL has only started about 12 games. As much strides as he has made he could use a year or two behind a player like Brunell underwhich he could learn from.

All I know is Gibbs knows football and he obviously must have signed off on this move and thinks its good for the team.

[petman88]

if we get mark he better be coming to us for at least a 3rd or hasselbeck atleast but a secong man this just be a rumor for the fun of it cuz if he comes here and ruins patrick ramsey grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[akhhorus]

I agree with ShaggySkins: he's a strong armed, veteran, mobile QB who has gone to the playoffs several times. Ramsey has alot of potential, but thats it. Ramsey has looked good, but who knows if he can make the next step. I think he can, but Brunell has.

[rskinsfan10]

I told you folks weeks ago when the Post article came out about Gibbs wanting a vet that I perceived that to mean that he wasn't all that enamored with Ramsey. Hmmm.....

[TexSkin]

I am not happy with this at all...Ramsey would do great under Gibbs. I sure as hell don't want to give up a 2nd round pick.
If this happens Brunnell dam well better be able to play defense too.

[ShaggySkins]

We all need to remember NONE of us know just how healthy Ramsey really is. His foot could still be injured and not recovering well. If Ramsey isn't healthy we definitely need another QB to be competitive in the division. Lets all remember Gibbs didn't come back to develop a young QB. He came back to immediatly compete for the division in the NFC Title. Brunell gives him that shot now where as Ramsey doesn't plain and simple.

[RichardBradley]

If we get Brunell do we try and move Ramsey?

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
We all need to remember NONE of us know just how healthy Ramsey really is. His foot could still be injured and not recovering well. If Ramsey isn't healthy we definitely need another QB to be competitive in the division. Lets all remember Gibbs didn't come back to develop a young QB. He came back to immediatly compete for the division in the NFC Title. Brunell gives him that shot now where as Ramsey doesn't plain and simple.

Whats going on? I'm agreeing with ShaggySkins twice in one day! Ramsey says he's on track, but foot injuries are notoriously hard to recover from. And just because the skins get Brunell, means Ramsey's on his way out. Gibbs might believe that Ramsey should sit and learn for a couple years until Brunell retires and Ramsey can take over.

[WRSK1NS]

It didn't take long to start second guessing " The Man" remeber this is Gibbs we are talikng about, not the miserable coaching staffs of the past 10 years! If Gibbs wants him, Gibbs should get him.

[AGibbsGirl]

11 years Brunell has been in the NFL he's past his prime.
He's a good backup, no longer a starter in my opinion.
I think Gibbs wants to develop Patrick, but he dosen't want to be calling people up off the beach mid-season if Ramsey goes down.

As far as the draft picks...does this mean we've got other deals in the works to bring in people that don't involve the draft? Vets, Free agents? I don't know much about this part of the game so I'll leave that up to you boys.

[Odyn]

Brunnell will get hurt so don't worry about Ramsey not getting his time. Brunnell will teach Ramsey the ropes and this trade will be beneficial to all parties

And we take away one of Parcell's coveted "veteran" QB's

[LuvSkins17]

Originally posted by RichardBradley
If we get Brunell do we try and move Ramsey?

I say we keep Ramsey too. His contract won't hurt us at all from what the article says. Ramsey would do well under Brunell. Hey, whose to say that Brunell will beat out Ramsey? They are both learning new systems and Brunell didn't unseat Leftwhich who was a Rookie and is also tough as nails. I would just hate for this to be a wasted pick. At any rate, whoever starts, if they go down, at least the backup will be trustworthy and I think that is all Gibbs wants........ INSURENCE!!!

Let's see how everyone feels if the starting QB gets hurt.

[Yudolindo]

I hope this falls through. It will cost too much. It would potentially destroy our draft and if we moved Ramsey and replace him with an old-timer…well, then, Snyder has learned nothing. Ramsey has big time potential; we have seen the best of Brunell and it has long since passed him by. Why not a Gresie (sp?)?

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by AGibbsGirl
As far as the draft picks...does this mean we've got other deals in the works to bring in people that don't involve the draft? Vets, Free agents? I don't know much about this part of the game so I'll leave that up to you boys.

I would have to think we have some sort of trade down already arranged with the Texans or another team to pick up an extra few picks. A QB can develop on the bench guys look at Chad Pennington as an example the guy sat behind a veteran in Testeverde and is arguably one of the top 5 QBs in the league now.

I also don't think Brunell is done in this league. If you watched him some in the begininning of this season he looked great adn like he can still be a top starter in the league. There is a reason playoff contending teams such as Dallas and Miami are looking to try and pick him up. That is because the guy can play and win immediatly.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
I would have to think we have some sort of trade down already arranged with the Texans or another team to pick up an extra few picks. A QB can develop on the bench guys look at Chad Pennington as an example the guy sat behind a veteran in Testeverde and is arguably one of the top 5 QBs in the league now.

I also don't think Brunell is done in this league. If you watched him some in the begininning of this season he looked great adn like he can still be a top starter in the league. There is a reason playoff contending teams such as Dallas and Miami are looking to try and pick him up. That is because the guy can play and win immediatly.

All good points Shaggy.

If the deal is made and Brunell is the starter, I welcome it. This coaching staff is ready to win NOW, and waiting on a still developing QB doesn't equal instant success.

[AGibbsGirl]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
I would have to think we have some sort of trade down already arranged with the Texans or another team to pick up an extra few picks. A QB can develop on the bench guys look at Chad Pennington as an example the guy sat behind a veteran in Testeverde and is arguably one of the top 5 QBs in the league now.

I also don't think Brunell is done in this league. If you watched him some in the begininning of this season he looked great adn like he can still be a top starter in the league. There is a reason playoff contending teams such as Dallas and Miami are looking to try and pick him up. That is because the guy can play and win immediatly.

But he's not long term material, Ramsey is! We can't letdown someone as promising as Patrick to let a vet "show him the ropes"
Ramsey's is ready now!

[LuvSkins17]

Hey Kenny!!!! What kind of brakes are on the BAND WAGON?

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by LuvSkins17
Hey Kenny!!!! What kind of brakes are on the BAND WAGON?

Raybestos!! :D

[Redvan]

I am in favor of this possible deal. I think Ramsey is a decent QB but he still has lots to learn ( ie. getting out of the pocket) and maybe Brunell could be the guy to help develop Pat.

[TexSkin]

Ramsey played well under really crappy circumstances. If we are gonna get a vet backup. Why not one like Jeff Blake who won't cost us draft picks and be a distraction to Ramsey. Sorry just do not like this deal. I really don't like it if it means giving up a low draft pick for a 33 year old QB!

[rhummer37]

We got more importanting things to be focusing in here.

We haven't started talking to our all pro CB about a contract renewal, but, we go out and get an over the hill QB.

Please, there are many other places we should be sending our money elsewhere. Ramsey wasn't in the first five QB's for passing yards through the first 5 weeks of the season by a fluke (and I don't care who the defenses were).

Brunell is a good QB, but we gotta think long term. Ramsey is ready to start for his 3rd season, he isn't a rookie anymore.

*And I'm not going to roll over just because Gibbs wants him either*

[TexSkin]

Originally posted by rhummer37
We got more importanting things to be focusing in here.

We haven't started talking to our all pro CB about a contract renewal, but, we go out and get an over the hill QB.

Please, there are many other places we should be sending our money elsewhere. Ramsey wasn't in the first five QB's for passing yards through the first 5 weeks of the season by a fluke (and I don't care who the defenses were).

Brunell is a good QB, but we gotta think long term. Ramsey is ready to start for his 3rd season, he isn't a rookie anymore.

*And I'm not going to roll over just because Gibbs wants him either*

Good post rhummer37..I agree with everything you said. We need to worry about signing Champ and Ram is no longer a Rookie!! He is a 3rd year QB for goodness sake!!

[28thegreat]

Have we gotten so used to only having one decent quarterback available that we've forgotten the luxury of two quality QBs. Hey, I became a fan back in the days of the Sonny J. to Billy K. QB controversy. We needed both of them then to win, and I believe we need two QBs like this now.

[28thegreat]

And if not Brunnell, who? Any suggestions?

[SkinsCT]

Signing Brunell would be a terrible mistake. I think Ramsey is ready to produce immediately, and the price tag of a second round pick is way too high. If Brunell is not named the starter, he'll probably start bitching and moaning immediately about his lack of playing time. Let Ramsey play, keep our pick, trade with the Texans and get more picks. This is not something that needs to be done right now. I completely disagree with anything done at this point. If we are doing this for selfish reasons, like we don't want him to go to Dallas, we are making an awful mistake.

[goterps1986]

They have to waive him by 3/1. This is only a good deal if it was a lower round pick or as a free agent. Even then I think it messes up Ramsey. The 41st pick is WAY too valuable to give up for Brunell. A good DT or a Greg Jones type will be available with that pick. Let's hope it's next year #2 if this is all true!

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by AGibbsGirl
But he's not long term material, Ramsey is! We can't letdown someone as promising as Patrick to let a vet "show him the ropes"
Ramsey's is ready now!

What did you see that showed you Ramsey is ready to win now??? I saw a young man with EXCELLENT arm strength but struggled finding his check down recievers who held on to the ball WAY too long which led to a lot of hits. Brunnel is an experienced player capable of winning for us now.

TexSkin how many games has Ramsey started??? In 2 years he has not made it through a full season and has not started a full 16 game season. Brunnel has taken a team deep into the playoffs on more then 1 occasion and shown that he can last a full season.

You guys don't realize we are not signing Brunnel to be a backup we are signing him to start for the obvious reason that either A) Gibbs sees something in Ramsey that he doesn't like or B) Ramsey is not physically read to play this season. That is why we are dealing for Brunnel instead of trying to sign Blake. Brunnell is a better QB then Blake and he is a better leader.

[28thegreat]

I say bring em both in and let em duke it out in camp. Won't hurt either one. And might make us stronger at the position. I think in today's NFL you've got to have two quality QBs available.

[Chief Seeway]

I like this idea! I trust Gibbs and the staff will make it a fair trade. I don't remember a single season when Gibbs ever declared any player as an automatic starter without competing in camp.

One thing is for sure, Patrick better start losing that baby fat, he is in for a long summer if this trade happens.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by 28thegreat
I say bring em both in and let em duke it out in camp. Won't hurt either one. And might make us stronger at the position. I think in today's NFL you've got to have two quality QBs available.

I don't mind competition, but it does hurt our salary cap and creats a QB controversy.

[28thegreat]

QB Controversies are only in the minds of the fans. I've never heard a coach of a winning ball team say he had a controversy at QB.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

My opinion on all this?

HELL NO.

Do I want to give up our second-round pick? Hell no. Do I want a QB controversy in Washington? Hell no. Do I want to stunt Ramsey's growth? Hell no. Do I want to bring in a guy who probably won't be playing in a couple more years? Hell no.

This is ridiculous. Brunell is better than Ramsey at this point, yes, but in two or three years he'll be done. Then what? Patrick will still have only 12 starts under his belt. Wouldn't it be nice to have one starting QB during Gibbs' tenure here? Wouldn't it be nice to save cap space and a draft pick by grabbing some veteran like Jeff Blake or Brian Griese? Wouldn't it be nice to know who'll be taking most of the snaps this year before training camp starts?

Frankly, I don't give a damn about the "win now" policy. What do you call each of our offseasons for the past four years? Remember those "The Future Is Now" banners they had in FexEx for the 2000 season? Remember why those were up there? Because we bought into the win now mentality in the offseason. And we've done it every year since then. What has it gotten us? A little bit of jack and a whole lot of squat. For once let's build to the future a little bit. Does anyone in here honestly think that if we fix the D-line and RB situations, we can't be in the playoffs next year with Ramsey taking snaps? If you do, you've been watching a different #11 than I have.

[28thegreat]

And since when is any player guaranteed a spot or longevity?

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by 28thegreat
QB Controversies are only in the minds of the fans. I've never heard a coach of a winning ball team say he had a controversy at QB.

Mike Martz might argue with you on that one.

[Chief Seeway]

Originally posted by rhummer37
I don't mind competition, but it does hurt our salary cap and creats a QB controversy.

Gibbs would never make this trade without Mark signing a new multi-year deal and there will be no controversy... there is a QB competition in mini and training camps and the better player starts, period.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 4 QB's competing for three spots under Gibbs.

[28thegreat]

"Wouldn't it be nice to have one starting QB during Gibbs' tenure here? Wouldn't it be nice to save cap space and a draft pick by grabbing some veteran like Jeff Blake or Brian Griese?"

Coach Gibbs can win with Brunnell now AND with Patrick two or three years from now. Remember the three SBs with three different QB thing.

I agree with thet second point. It would be nice...if either of those two you mentioned were WINNERS!

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
What did you see that showed you Ramsey is ready to win now??? I saw a young man with EXCELLENT arm strength but struggled finding his check down recievers who held on to the ball WAY too long which led to a lot of hits. Brunnel is an experienced player capable of winning for us now.

TexSkin how many games has Ramsey started??? In 2 years he has not made it through a full season and has not started a full 16 game season. Brunnel has taken a team deep into the playoffs on more then 1 occasion and shown that he can last a full season.

You guys don't realize we are not signing Brunnel to be a backup we are signing him to start for the obvious reason that either A) Gibbs sees something in Ramsey that he doesn't like or B) Ramsey is not physically read to play this season. That is why we are dealing for Brunnel instead of trying to sign Blake. Brunnell is a better QB then Blake and he is a better leader.

Where to begin?? Alright, skill: Ramsey was a top 5 QB in the league for many weeks (beginning of the season) : POINT PROVEN

Experience: No season can be physically harder then the one he just endured. He was a rookie his first year (what a coincidence), and he had an extra bone in his foot, give the guy a break: POINT PROVEN

I'm not saying Brunnel is a bad QB (wouldn't be true) but I'm saying we got more important areas to spend money on. And to sum it up, I'll say it again:

*I'm not going to roll over just because Gibbs wants him either*

[Chief Seeway]

Originally posted by 28thegreat
QB Controversies are only in the minds of the fans. I've never heard a coach of a winning ball team say he had a controversy at QB.


Agreed!

[Chief Seeway]

There may be more to this then we know...

Ramsey and the Skins kept his foot problem secret. If Ramsey comes out of this foot surgery at the same level or in better condition I would be surprised. This may be a huge concern for Gibbs and he may be doing some preventive maintenance or damage control if you will.

[akhhorus]

here, here....remember the Patriots in 2001? Bledsoe and Brady? I think Ramsey could only benefit from learning Gibbs offense and sitting..

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by akhhorus
here, here....remember the Patriots in 2001? Bledsoe and Brady? I think Ramsey could only benefit from learning Gibbs offense and sitting..

Brunnell would have just as much to learn as Ramsey.

[28thegreat]

Really? Hasn't Brunnell had a little bit more experience reading today's NFL defenses? Wasn't he pretty good at it? At least at some point in the last eleven years in the NFL...didn't he learn at little bit more than PR did in the last two years? Hmmmm...

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by 28thegreat
Really? Hasn't Brunnell had a little bit more experience reading today's NFL defenses? Wasn't he pretty good at it? At least at some point in the last eleven years in the NFL...didn't he learn at little bit more than PR did in the last two years? Hmmmm...

Both have no experience under a Gibbs offense. I never said he was a bad QB, just that we have bigger priorities.

[Odyn]

A vet qb was a priority. Our backup was Tim Hasselbeck! It seems like more than a small priority and we just solved it.

[rhummer37]

A small priority worth a second round pick and a ton of money??

For the money he is getting (or asking for) he should be starting. That's what I'm unhappy with.

[HollywoodKolt]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
My opinion on all this?

HELL NO.

Do I want to give up our second-round pick? Hell no. Do I want a QB controversy in Washington? Hell no. Do I want to stunt Ramsey's growth? Hell no. Do I want to bring in a guy who probably won't be playing in a couple more years? Hell no.

This is ridiculous. Brunell is better than Ramsey at this point, yes, but in two or three years he'll be done. Then what? Patrick will still have only 12 starts under his belt. Wouldn't it be nice to have one starting QB during Gibbs' tenure here? Wouldn't it be nice to save cap space and a draft pick by grabbing some veteran like Jeff Blake or Brian Griese? Wouldn't it be nice to know who'll be taking most of the snaps this year before training camp starts?

Frankly, I don't give a damn about the "win now" policy. What do you call each of our offseasons for the past four years? Remember those "The Future Is Now" banners they had in FexEx for the 2000 season? Remember why those were up there? Because we bought into the win now mentality in the offseason. And we've done it every year since then. What has it gotten us? A little bit of jack and a whole lot of squat. For once let's build to the future a little bit. Does anyone in here honestly think that if we fix the D-line and RB situations, we can't be in the playoffs next year with Ramsey taking snaps? If you do, you've been watching a different #11 than I have.


You took the words right out of my mouth Joe. For those of you who said that Brunell would teach Ramsey the ropes, why don't you look at how nice of a job he did of that with the Jags. Yes Leftwich is doing a great job down there but I don't think it has too much to do with Brunell. I'm not trying to say that it's wrong that he wants to play, so let him play in dallas or Miami.

I think that the best way for Ramsey to learn the ropes is to be on the field. The best way to learn is to quote Mrs. Frizzle of The Magic School bus, "Make mistakes and GET MESSY." I say that for ever Chad Pennington there is a Drew Brees. I'd rather put Ramsey in there and see what the guy can do with a solid running game and protection!

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by rhummer37
Where to begin?? Alright, skill: Ramsey was a top 5 QB in the league for many weeks (beginning of the season) : POINT PROVEN

Experience: No season can be physically harder then the one he just endured. He was a rookie his first year (what a coincidence), and he had an extra bone in his foot, give the guy a break: POINT PROVEN


I'm not saying Ramsey didn't take a physical beating last year but he doesn't have a lot of experience when he has only played a little over half a season last year thats just a fact. You can't just give the guy a break because he got beat up.

Ramsey was a top QB at the beginning of the season when he was playing bad teams and bad defenses.
But take a look at his stats from good teams to bad:

Jets (Bad Team) 93.6 QB Rating

Falcons (Bad Team) 110.6 QB Rating

Gaints (Bad Team) 82.5 QB Rating

Patriots (Good Team missing a lot of players) 67.8 QB Rating

Eagles (Good Team) 56.3 QB Rating

Buccaneers (Average Team) 68.6 QB Rating

Bills (Average Team) 60.8 QB Rating

Dallas (Good Team) 89.2 QB Rating

Seattle (Good Team) 71.4 QB Rating

Carolina (Good Team) 65.2 QB Rating

Miami (Good Team) 39.6 QB Rating

Ramsey was able to pad his stats aganist horrible defenses such as the Falcons, Jets, and Giants. When he played tough playoff defenses him and the entire offense struggled. Ramsey doesn't have the experience to lead a team into the playoffs now.

The fact is we all like Ramsey but to say he is ready to take a team deep into the playoffs is wrong. If you guys think we are getting hit bad by possibly losing Champ now you will need to realize that its only going to get worse in the next 2 years. We have starters such as Smoot, Trotter, Armstead, Gardner, & Samuels all facing FA or possible cuts due to salary purposes. This team was built last year with the idea of having a 3 year window to win. Now we burned a year and this team has a 2 year window until we get hit hard by the cap. Brunnell gives us a legitimate shot to compete for the NFC Title next year.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
I'm not saying Ramsey didn't take a physical beating last year but he doesn't have a lot of experience when he has only played a little over half a season last year thats just a fact. You can't just give the guy a break because he got beat up.

Ramsey was a top QB at the beginning of the season when he was playing bad teams and bad defenses.
But take a look at his stats from good teams to bad:

Jets (Bad Team) 93.6 QB Rating

Falcons (Bad Team) 110.6 QB Rating

Gaints (Bad Team) 82.5 QB Rating

Patriots (Good Team missing a lot of players) 67.8 QB Rating

Eagles (Good Team) 56.3 QB Rating

Buccaneers (Average Team) 68.6 QB Rating

Bills (Average Team) 60.8 QB Rating

Dallas (Good Team) 89.2 QB Rating

Seattle (Good Team) 71.4 QB Rating

Carolina (Good Team) 65.2 QB Rating

Miami (Good Team) 39.6 QB Rating

Ramsey was able to pad his stats aganist horrible defenses such as the Falcons, Jets, and Giants. When he played tough playoff defenses him and the entire offense struggled. Ramsey doesn't have the experience to lead a team into the playoffs now.

The fact is we all like Ramsey but to say he is ready to take a team deep into the playoffs is wrong. If you guys think we are getting hit bad by possibly losing Champ now you will need to realize that its only going to get worse in the next 2 years. We have starters such as Smoot, Trotter, Armstead, Gardner, & Samuels all facing FA or possible cuts due to salary purposes. This team was built last year with the idea of having a 3 year window to win. Now we burned a year and this team has a 2 year window until we get hit hard by the cap. Brunnell gives us a legitimate shot to compete for the NFC Title next year.

Ramsey won't get any experience behind someone either, now will he? Not sure what 3 year plan your talking about, that's just the modern NFL. Star names will be cut or lost, we will have to move on. And I will give him a break, he was in a dismal offensive system, and had an extra bone in his foot.

We will be a much better team next year (whoever the QB is) but NFC title??? I'll believe it when I see it.

[RichardBradley]

Maybe Gibbs see's the same things in Ramsey that alot of us don't like. He holds the ball to long and dosen't dump the ball off..

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by RichardBradley
Maybe Gibbs see's the same things in Ramsey that alot of us don't like. He holds the ball to long and dosen't dump the ball off..

That should be relatively easy to fix (holding onto ball). Dumping the ball off is another story completely. Spurrier didn't have anyone for him to dump the ball of to. He introduced it into his playbook later for Hasselbeck, which was much better.

[akhhorus]

I find it funny that the unbridled optimisim that reigned only a month ago has gone to naught.....CALM DOWN PEOPLE the trade hasnt happened!

[frankez99]

Regardless of whom is starting.....I'd much rather have either RAM or Brunell coming in as a backup then Hasselbeck. And everyone who said that Brunell was a distraction or hinderance in Jacksonville obviously wasn't watching the NFL last season...even Byron Leftwich praised his professionalism and guidance. I'm not a huge fan of this acquisition as I was sold having RAM as a starter next season, BUT obviously Gibbs has done this for a reason, and this season I am going to support whatever he does...I'm tired of second guessing our Front Office with their "Decisions". Wait until you see results on the field....I mean, can it get much worse than it has been in the last 10 years?????????? Hail....

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by frankez99
I'm not a huge fan of this acquisition as I was sold having RAM as a starter next season, BUT obviously Gibbs has done this for a reason, and this season I am going to support whatever he does...I'm tired of second guessing our Front Office with their "Decisions". Wait until you see results on the field....I mean, can it get much worse than it has been in the last 10 years?????????? Hail....

I've seen what the FO has done that past 10 seasons, and that's exactly the reason I don't like this decision.

[frankez99]

Originally posted by rhummer37
I've seen what the FO has done that past 10 seasons, and that's exactly the reason I don't like this decision.


true indeed....but I'm trying...DESPERATELY trying to accept with blind allegiance this season rhummer37!!

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by frankez99
true indeed....but I'm trying...DESPERATELY trying to accept with blind allegiance this season rhummer37!!

I understand. But, I'm not under the same spell as some of our "senior members" here at hR. I wasn't watching football at all during Gibb's era and haven't had the opportunity to be sucked in. I'm taking the same approach as Arrington: "I'll believe it when I see it"

[Va.SkinFan]

I agree that Ramsey will learn through Gibbs of how to get rid of the ball sooner. My problem is Brunnell is going to ask for at least 10 to 15 million a year. He was suppose to get at least that next year with the Jags. For a guy to come in and be Ramseys tutor for two years would be too much money and the cap would kill us. I agree with everyone here about being able to sign our other free agents in the next few years. If this goes through I think Champ is going on the trading block for draft picks. Thats a gut feeling I am having but I hope not.

[akhhorus]

Everyone remember that Alex Rodrigeuz(sp) was a 'done deal' to Boston and Pasta-Belly is often wrong. I still find it interesting that NO-ONE else is reporting this..not even the Washington Post. I believe there has been talks, but when people like Peter King, Jay Glazer, Mark Maske or Paul Attner write this, I'll believe it more.

[skinsfaninCT]

hello all , i am new here and i love it already.
i'm thinking if this trade does go through, they are probably going to trade down the 5th pick ,and are probably going to let Champ go also for picks.

[RichardBradley]

Welcome..

Good point maybe their is a deal in place for Champ.. Gibbs has a plan and beleive me when I tell you he knows more about football than any of us do.

[skinsfaninCT]

yes i agree with you i have been a fan since the early 80's

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by skinsfaninCT
yes i agree with you i have been a fan since the early 80's

Welcome to hailRedskins.com. Kick up your feet, sit back, and relax. You will see great fans, the best, right here at HR. We built a tremendous community of great, faithful Skins fans and look forward to you being part of it.

I agree. I think we will stockpile picks, that could include trading away number 5, trading Champ, and dealing Gardner.

[skinsfaninCT]

i like Gardner but what do you think we can get for him?

[skinswin'emALL]

This is sooooooooo Gibbs like. He likes proven QBs and DEPTH. I don't think it's a nock on Patrick, at all. He's still young and has only been tought the FunK and Gunk O for the past 2 years. A Vet like Mark and coach Gibbs will be good for Ram.

I Gibbs I trust

[truant]

This is a horrible move.


Marshall Faulk was traded for a second round pick when he left the Colts. Value wise, Brunell is not worth an early-mid second rounder.

Two, we are supposed to be cutting salaries to get a D-line in FA and sign Champ. What the hell is this! We are NOT a QB away.

Man... i can't even fathom how idiotic this move will be. It'll stunt Patricks growth and we lose a second rounder? That's a first and a second gone to waste.

I hope someone wakes up and sees that this isn't 1997.

DO NOT DO THIS!!! PLEASE

[tyrone_rush_fan]

As always, Snyder's mind is working several months ahead of everone else's. Brunell coming here is by no means a done deal, but it does prove that the skins are done evaluating the roster and are ready to move. For God's sake, they're not even waiting for the trade perod to begin.

If Champ was gonna be resigned, it would've happened a long time ago. The decisions have already been made. Now, Champ does have a say in where he's gonna end up, so-

what team out there would Champ be very willing to go to??
what team is ready to win now and is desparate for a corner??
what team does the skins' FO have "connections" with??

- The Atlanta Falcons- the #7/8 pick in the draft

[palladia]

Gibbs has always had a veteran backup on his team, so it shouldn't be a surprise that a deal like this is made. I agree that a second round pick is too high of a price, but let's wait and see what the deal is before getting too excited.

I think Gibbs is smart enough to know that Ramsey is the future, and will make sure that Brunell's role with this team will mostly be as the backup. With Snyder negotiating contracts, he'll make sure that Brunell is paid like a starter, even if he'll primarily be a backup.

[28thegreat]

Originally posted by rhummer37
I understand. But, I'm not under the same spell as some of our "senior members" here at hR. I wasn't watching football at all during Gibb's era and haven't had the opportunity to be sucked in. I'm taking the same approach as Arrington: "I'll believe it when I see it"


Rhummer, we are spellbound because we did watch Gibbs "all those years ago." I cannot describe for you adequately the way it used to be watching our beloved team. The Beltway came as close to standing still as it ever could during the game. There was no one out and about if they didn't have to be. We are spell bound because we have been there. I don't only believe Gibbs will win you over, I guarantee he will. And remember, we aren't just dealing with the decisions of one good ole boy coach. Gibbs is a winner who's first move was not to go out and get a guy like Brunnell...his first move was to get an amazing, experienced, proven staff. They have evaluated the personnel now and are going to make some surprising moves. But I say this is a coach and staff you can trust. IF they finalize this move...there will be a VERY good reason.

[Redskinfan28]

Gibbs apparently doesn't think Ramsey is ready to lead this team.

[VirginiaRedskin]

People need to relax! Too many "fans" with zero football knowledge doubting one of the best football minds ever. I have always thought that Ramsey was a little slow in the mental aspect of the game and it is possible that Gibbs was uncomfortable with the fact that Hasselbeck was able to make quicker reads than Ramsey after joining the team for only a week. Gibbs loves QB protection and part of the ability to do that is the QB helping himself with quick reads and getting rid of the ball. Ramsey was horrible in that aspect last season. Time will tell, but have faith.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by 28thegreat
Rhummer, we are spellbound because we did watch Gibbs "all those years ago." I cannot describe for you adequately the way it used to be watching our beloved team. The Beltway came as close to standing still as it ever could during the game. There was no one out and about if they didn't have to be. We are spell bound because we have been there. I don't only believe Gibbs will win you over, I guarantee he will. And remember, we aren't just dealing with the decisions of one good ole boy coach. Gibbs is a winner who's first move was not to go out and get a guy like Brunnell...his first move was to get an amazing, experienced, proven staff. They have evaluated the personnel now and are going to make some surprising moves. But I say this is a coach and staff you can trust. IF they finalize this move...there will be a VERY good reason.

I am not saying he won't win me over (I hope he does). And I love what he has going on his staff. But, I don't agree with this. We have bigger issues that need to be worked out. I have become frustrated with the apparent lack of effort to resign Bailey. There is little doubt left in my mind he will not be here next year.

I am tired of this organization getting turned upside down every year. Champ will be gone, Ramsey benched, Trotter/Armstead dismissed (now I'm speculating). I want stability, but more importantly, I want results.

We'll See.

[punkin]

ill beleve it when(if) it happens only a few weeks ago every one thought we were getting fasil and look what happened

[PennSkinsFan]

Gibbs will be here to stay for sometime and will bring stability. For you folks that were not Redskin fans during the Gibbs Era or were too young, I can definetly see how hard it is to believe. You can't believe full faith in someone like Gibbs when you never watched the guy.

BUT, bottom line, this franchise has three Superbowls, he is responsible for all three. He coaches 12 years, 11 of those years were winning years. He is the ONLY coach in NF: history to win 3 Bowls with 3 different QBs, all veterans. His staus as a member fo the NFL Hall of Fame speaks volumes. He finished 1st in the NFC 5 times and finsihed 2nd twice. Of the 12 years he coached, he had the Redskisn in the playoffs 8 of those years.

His record speaks for itself. As a GM, that record does not, because he was not the GM, Beatherd and Casserly were. Nowe, he is tryingsomething new, he is calling the shots as well as coaching, it is new, but so was NASCAR. Gibbs has a history of winning no matter what he does, that is precisely why we "senior members" have full faith in Gibbs. He has never give one single reason, ever, to not give fuill faith.

BUT as stated rhummer, I can understand where the folks who were too young for the Gibbs era are speculative at best. Don't know what you haven't seen.

[rhummer37]

I've heard one report that his agent said he would never go to a team with a possible QB controversy. If this is true, this means one of two things: Ramsey will be benched or, Brunell isn't coming.

[rhummer37]

I thought I might get a few responses on my "senior members" post. :)

Let it be known I was too young for Gibbs era (born in '88).

[GolfFreak]

They reported on the 11:00 pm Sports Center something like - "don't worry Skins fans, Ramsey is still the starter".

I'm still trying to sort this out and decide whether I'm happy or not. I hope Gibbs is involved in a decision like this, if so then I'll deal with it.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by benjamce
They reported on the 11:00 pm Sports Center something like - "don't worry Skins fans, Ramsey is still the starter".

I'm still trying to sort this out and decide whether I'm happy or not. I hope Gibbs is involved in a decision like this, if so then I'll deal with it.

That's pretty easy to say when we haven't even started Free Agency. He's asking for too much not to play.

[LavarLeap2003]

this wont be controversey if any of us dont make it a big deal, joe gibbs is known for having a backup to the "MAIN QB" correct? well if ramsey goes down this year...we atleast have a nice backup

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Gibbs will be here to stay for sometime and will bring stability. For you folks that were not Redskin fans during the Gibbs Era or were too young, I can definetly see how hard it is to believe. You can't believe full faith in someone like Gibbs when you never watched the guy.

BUT, bottom line, this franchise has three Superbowls, he is responsible for all three. He coaches 12 years, 11 of those years were winning years. He is the ONLY coach in NF: history to win 3 Bowls with 3 different QBs, all veterans. His staus as a member fo the NFL Hall of Fame speaks volumes. He finished 1st in the NFC 5 times and finsihed 2nd twice. Of the 12 years he coached, he had the Redskisn in the playoffs 8 of those years.

His record speaks for itself. As a GM, that record does not, because he was not the GM, Beatherd and Casserly were. Nowe, he is tryingsomething new, he is calling the shots as well as coaching, it is new, but so was NASCAR. Gibbs has a history of winning no matter what he does, that is precisely why we "senior members" have full faith in Gibbs. He has never give one single reason, ever, to not give fuill faith.

BUT as stated rhummer, I can understand where the folks who were too young for the Gibbs era are speculative at best. Don't know what you haven't seen.

In 12 years, Gibbs compiled a 124-60-0 regular-season record and a 16-5 record in 21 post-season games. His combined .683 winning percentage is surpassed only by Vince Lombardi (.740) and John Madden (.731).

[akhhorus]

According the Washington Post and the Miami Herald, the Dolphins are still interested in acquiring Brunell. The trade cannot be completed until March, so this thing is long from being over. I think whats happened is that the Skins are the current highest bidder, but the Dolphins(and a couple other teams) might still be interested.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
I'm not saying Ramsey didn't take a physical beating last year but he doesn't have a lot of experience when he has only played a little over half a season last year thats just a fact. You can't just give the guy a break because he got beat up.

Ramsey was a top QB at the beginning of the season when he was playing bad teams and bad defenses.
But take a look at his stats from good teams to bad:

Jets (Bad Team) 93.6 QB Rating

Falcons (Bad Team) 110.6 QB Rating

Gaints (Bad Team) 82.5 QB Rating

Patriots (Good Team missing a lot of players) 67.8 QB Rating

Eagles (Good Team) 56.3 QB Rating

Buccaneers (Average Team) 68.6 QB Rating

Bills (Average Team) 60.8 QB Rating

Dallas (Good Team) 89.2 QB Rating

Seattle (Good Team) 71.4 QB Rating

Carolina (Good Team) 65.2 QB Rating

Miami (Good Team) 39.6 QB Rating

Ramsey was able to pad his stats aganist horrible defenses such as the Falcons, Jets, and Giants. When he played tough playoff defenses him and the entire offense struggled. Ramsey doesn't have the experience to lead a team into the playoffs now.

The fact is we all like Ramsey but to say he is ready to take a team deep into the playoffs is wrong. If you guys think we are getting hit bad by possibly losing Champ now you will need to realize that its only going to get worse in the next 2 years. We have starters such as Smoot, Trotter, Armstead, Gardner, & Samuels all facing FA or possible cuts due to salary purposes. This team was built last year with the idea of having a 3 year window to win. Now we burned a year and this team has a 2 year window until we get hit hard by the cap. Brunnell gives us a legitimate shot to compete for the NFC Title next year.

Good point Shaggy but don't forget the team (offense) was built to run the Fun-N-Gun. The plan has to be changed.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Va.SkinFan
My problem is Brunnell is going to ask for at least 10 to 15 million a year. He was suppose to get at least that next year with the Jags.

I trust that this is an exageration, because no one in the league makes this amount of money per year. No one. If you are discussing what he possibly may ask for in a signing bonus, which he most certainly will not get from the Skins ir anyone else for that matter, that's different. There is no way in the world that he would ask for 10-15mil a year. We would be able to hear the laughter coming from Redskin Park for hundreds of miles as he is kicked out of the door.

[akhhorus]

If Brunell asks for that amount, they wont make the trade...period

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Yudolindo
I hope this falls through. It will cost too much. It would potentially destroy our draft and if we moved Ramsey and replace him with an old-timer…well, then, Snyder has learned nothing. Ramsey has big time potential; we have seen the best of Brunell and it has long since passed him by. Why not a Gresie (sp?)?

Whoa, let's not forget who has the final say in shaping this roster. This isn't Snyder's call. This belongs on the shoulders of Gibbs.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by akhhorus
According the Washington Post and the Miami Herald, the Dolphins are still interested in acquiring Brunell. The trade cannot be completed until March, so this thing is long from being over. I think whats happened is that the Skins are the current highest bidder, but the Dolphins(and a couple other teams) might still be interested.

A deal can be reached sooner then the March trading period, but it wouldn't be official until then. In essence, this could be resolved very quickly.

[akhhorus]

I hate to be running down Ramsey but his QB rating was only 74.6 this past year while Brunell hasn't had a QB rating under 82 since 1995

[JoeDaSchmoe]

With Snyder negotiating contracts, he'll make sure that Brunell is paid like a starter, even if he'll primarily be a backup.

And that's exactly the problem.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by akhhorus
I hate to be running down Ramsey but his QB rating was only 74.6 this past year while Brunell hasn't had a QB rating under 82 since 1995

It was essentially his rookie season. He had absolutely no running game to fall back on. He ran an offense that didn't even have hot routes. Cut the guy a little slack.

[REALRICK]

Steve Young sat behind Joe Montana for several years.....AFTER he had already been a starter and failed in Tampa Bay.

So therefore, I am tired of hearing the whiners complain that Patrick Ramsey will get his feelings hurt and lose confidence if Brunell comes here to start. Really? Did you talk to Ramsey about his confidence level....or are you thinking what somebody else told you?

Patrick Ramsey plays football for a living and is a man......a real man. He can even take a beating...he proved it to me. So I doubt having a Pro Bowl caliber veteran come here to show him the ropes for a couple of years....is going to destroy him.

And another thing, Patrick didn't exactly set the league on fire this year. Not to mention he injured his foot, and God knows if it will heal right or heal at all. Have you discussed this with the team physician, whiners?

Patrick is under contract throught 2006 and can then be franchised if he ever warrants that kind of expense. But for the time he is a sophmore QB who has now started a total of 16 games or one full season....and he hasn't taken anybody to the playoffs. Think about that for a while, just in case Brunell comes in here next month because Brunell HAS been to the playoffs as well as the Pro Bowl.

Just imagine Joe Gibbs system, Bugels offensive line, and Brunell throwing to Coles, Gardner, McCants and Taylor Jacobs. Brunell has never had 4 quality receivers like that before.

Get ready for excitement guys, whether this trade goes down or not. But quit the whining because Ramsey hasn't inherited a starting job based upon performance.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Rick, I'm gonna merge this into the Brunell thread for simplicity's sake.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

There. Now anyway, I think Ramsey's confidence is just about last on the list of things that I don't like about the Brunell trade. I don't know about the rest of the people who don't like it, but I'm more worried about the cap hit, the loss of a draft pick, the possibility of a QB controversy, the stunting of Ramsey's growth, the loss of continuity, and the simple fact that this is not what we need.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I really don't think Brunell has anything left in the tank physically. He had elbow problems last year. I think he has lost his ability to bring it.

He was replaced in week 3 by a rookie. How much can he have left?

I think this is a bad move.

[Redskinfan28]

I love Patrick Ramsey. I hope he is with the Redskins for his entire career. With that said, I don't think his play has warranted a startng job without competition. If Brunell is better, than he should start.

[akhhorus]

OK people...we should just suspend new posts here untli there some resolution....this is far from being over, but everyone, it seems, has already given the Patrick Ramsey eulogy. CALM DOWN.....Jeez

[JoeDaSchmoe]

You know why Brunell wasn't playing this year? Because the Jaguars organization decided that it was more important to develop their young QB than to try and eek out a couple more wins right now. And by cutting him, they've already determined that next year will be more of the same.

Are we really gonna let Jacksonville outsmart us on this one?

[Jon Creveling]

Mr.Schmoe, good post above! At the risk of joining Ricks whiner club, how many wins per season, Mark vs Patrick is Mark worth??? Maybe 1? WOW!

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
You know why Brunell wasn't playing this year? Because the Jaguars organization decided that it was more important to develop their young QB than to try and eek out a couple more wins right now. And by cutting him, they've already determined that next year will be more of the same.

Are we really gonna let Jacksonville outsmart us on this one?

Brunnell wasn't playing because the Jags decided to use the #8 pick on a QB and they needed to begin a rebuilding process. It had nothing to do with Brunell not being able to play.

Aganist Carolina in the season opener:
23 passes completed of 27 Attempted thats 85.2%
272 Yards passing and 2 touchdowns

Thats the same Carolina defense that just went to the Super Bowl and lost by a field goal and Jimmy Smith was out for this game as well.
Brunnell can still play they made a decision to start Leftwich in hopes of addressing the future.
I'd also hate to break this to all the Ramsey Fanatics but Ramsey played average last year. Go look back at the games, he isn't a pro bowl QB right now and he isn't ready to take us to the playoffs.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins

Aganist Carolina in the season opener:
23 passes completed of 27 Attempted thats 85.2%
272 Yards passing and 2 touchdowns

Thats the same Carolina defense that just went to the Super Bowl and lost by a field goal and Jimmy Smith was out for this game as well.
Brunnell can still play they made a decision to start Leftwich in hopes of addressing the future.
I'd also hate to break this to all the Ramsey Fanatics but Ramsey played average last year. Go look back at the games, he isn't a pro bowl QB right now and he isn't ready to take us to the playoffs.

Hate to break it to you that both Carolina and New England are very different from A) when your season opener occured and B) when the Skins played each team.

Brunell is also not among the elite few at Hawai, and its hard to thrive under Spurrier's system (even after he "dumbed" it down for Hasselbeck).

[Spence]

The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by Spence
The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

If he can make these high profile players play, well, then its about time someone did. Excuses for under-achieving have worn out, I'm tired of believing it will be different next year.

[Jon Creveling]

Shagg, don't realy think anyone is saying the guy's washed up or that fans are blinded by Ramsey average play, you are right on that but, I think after suffering so long the last few years many fans want, no you know what, need a new hero! Why put off Patricks developement? Realy I'm not breaking your balls on this but honestly, how much better do you feel the team would do this year with Mark at the helm? In the above post I guessed maybe 1 more win and that's a maybe. What do you expect?

[efm2004]

Gibbs is going to want no less than 3 QB's on his depth chart this season and at least one of them is going to have a lot of experience. If he doesn't land Brunell, he'll just go after another one. Brunell seems as good as anyone out there. I'd certainly would prefer him over Warner anyway.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by efm2004
Gibbs is going to want no less than 3 QB's on his depth chart this season and at least one of them is going to have a lot of experience. If he doesn't land Brunell, he'll just go after another one. Brunell seems as good as anyone out there. I'd certainly would prefer him over Warner anyway.

Why do you say that? Both have injuries and will cost a lot. Both have experience, but Warner has more.

[lb56blitz]

Originally posted by robert
I really don't think Brunell has anything left in the tank physically. He had elbow problems last year. I think he has lost his ability to bring it.

He was replaced in week 3 by a rookie. How much can he have left?

I think this is a bad move.

Here's my half a cent. i think that either Gibbs and Danny are throwing up a smoke screen and really have something else in the works or Gibbs obviously sees something in Brunell and thinks he would be a perfect addition to his system which has been proven in the past, ie. three rings.

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by lb56blitz
Here's my half a cent. i think that either Gibbs and Danny are throwing up a smoke screen and really have something else in the works

Ya know, im beginning to think this is closer to the truth...

[jonesy]

This is a good move, Brunell is a class act and we need veteran talent at this position wether he starts or not

[AGibbsGirl]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
I'm not saying Ramsey didn't take a physical beating last year but he doesn't have a lot of experience when he has only played a little over half a season last year thats just a fact. You can't just give the guy a break because he got beat up.

Ramsey was a top QB at the beginning of the season when he was playing bad teams and bad defenses.
But take a look at his stats from good teams to bad:

Jets (Bad Team) 93.6 QB Rating

Falcons (Bad Team) 110.6 QB Rating

Gaints (Bad Team) 82.5 QB Rating

Patriots (Good Team missing a lot of players) 67.8 QB Rating

Eagles (Good Team) 56.3 QB Rating

Buccaneers (Average Team) 68.6 QB Rating

Bills (Average Team) 60.8 QB Rating

Dallas (Good Team) 89.2 QB Rating

Seattle (Good Team) 71.4 QB Rating

Carolina (Good Team) 65.2 QB Rating

Miami (Good Team) 39.6 QB Rating

Ramsey was able to pad his stats aganist horrible defenses such as the Falcons, Jets, and Giants. When he played tough playoff defenses him and the entire offense struggled. Ramsey doesn't have the experience to lead a team into the playoffs now.

The fact is we all like Ramsey but to say he is ready to take a team deep into the playoffs is wrong. If you guys think we are getting hit bad by possibly losing Champ now you will need to realize that its only going to get worse in the next 2 years. We have starters such as Smoot, Trotter, Armstead, Gardner, & Samuels all facing FA or possible cuts due to salary purposes. This team was built last year with the idea of having a 3 year window to win. Now we burned a year and this team has a 2 year window until we get hit hard by the cap. Brunnell gives us a legitimate shot to compete for the NFC Title next year.

Holy cow Saggy~ so many posts have gone by...but I did want to address one issue with you. Having the same problem that Ramsey does (I've got an extra bone in my foot) it's very painful at times and thank God I'm not an NFL QB. AS you can see from your own stats as the year went on his stats got worse because by his own admission he was in extreme pain and couldn't even plant his foot by the end...please don't disregard this fact, injuries to professional athletes are a huge deal.
HUGE!!!

I'm looking forward to seeing how Ramsey does this year with better protection and a coach that gives a damn about his blindside