Why is getting Brunnell such a bad move?

[Redskinfan28]

I'm just curious on everyones thoughts as to why its a bad trade for a second round pick? What about a third round pick? Has Ramsey proven himself as a starter?

[Skinzaholic]

I personallyfeel that we need to use our 2nd pick for much greater needs. Brunell has proven he is a good QB... but he has limited time left and we need to build for the future. The question isnt really has Ramsey proven himself - but more that he has proven his potential and that speaks volumes.

Brunell is good... and that makes him too expensive for what we need right now. IMO.

[rhummer37]

PROS AND CONS OF PICKING UP BRUNELL:

CONS:
Loss of 2nd Round Pick

Loss of Cap Room

Old QB

Injuries


PROS:
Experience

Proven QB

Teaching Ability

Ramsey is a smart QB, he will learn with more experience. Cons outweigh the pros here, because money in a salary cap system is so precious.

[SkinsKY]

Ramsey threw out of the basement all year long and did it on a broken foot. His numbers are better than the other two QBs taken in the first round. He has great potential. When he has time to throw, he usually makes good decisions. Skinzaholic said what I would've about Brunell. He his almost finished and if we need to look forward at the QB position. I think Ramsey can throw for 3000 yards next year with protection. spending a 2nd on Brunell would not really improve on that much. It's also important for Ramsey's confidence that one year we regard him as the future and without any major wrongdoing on his part, he is not good enough. I think we should lean on the kid. He's a tough one.

[Spence]

The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by Spence
The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

I don't know where your basis is for that at all. Gibbs sees a proven vetran available and believes it will help the team, maybe, but a run at the playoffs, FROM 5-11?? I hope that isn't what he sees, because if it is, we won't get far.

[SkinsKY]

Originally posted by Spence
The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

I think Gibbs does think we can make a run, but I think we can find a good backup without spending a 2nd rounder on an old man.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Spence
The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

Exactly. When the HC of your most bitter rival concedes that you have more talent then anyone else in the division, that speaks volumes. Suddenly it seems that Gibbs doesn't have a clue as to what he is doing in the minds of some. I see that the honeymoon period is over for many.

As far as people talking about cap space, what is Brunell's salary going to be? We don't know yet. Also, unless I'm missing something, whoever that we would have signed with our 2nd round pick wasn't going to play for free, was he?

[rhummer37]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10


As far as people talking about cap space, what is Brunell's salary going to be? We don't know yet. Also, unless I'm missing something, whoever that we would have signed with our 2nd round pick wasn't going to play for free, was he?

Second Round pick.....vetran QB

Who do you think will ask for the biggest multimillion dollar deal?

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by rhummer37
Second Round pick.....vetran QB

Who do you think will ask for the biggest multimillion dollar deal?

As I said in another thread, what you ask for and what you get are two totally different things. Some of you guys are ready to jump off the bridge before Gibbs has even met with the man. All you are doing is speculating what he will be paid. I'll take a cap hit of $500k or so more now to win NOW.

[lb56blitz]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
As I said in another thread, what you ask for and what you get are two totally different things. Some of you guys are ready to jump off the bridge before Gibbs has even met with the man. All you are doing is speculating what he will be paid. I'll take a cap hit of $500k or so more now to win NOW.

i couldn't agreee more. i feel that Gibbs knows exactly what he is doing and if he feels that it is the best thing for the team right know in its current state, then i am on board.

[jonesy]

I don't understand the fuss either. Brunell is a proven veteran, a class act and would thrive under Gibbs, Bugel and Co. This is a good move in my opinion! Is there another suggestion on someone to bring in to give us quality talent at this positon in case of injury etc. Brunell enhances our depth and I do not see the down side, he didn't play much last year so he should be healthy and hungry!

[camasterton]

Of course it's a big deal. What other playoff team has two or is looking for two starting QBs? Brunell and his agent have made it very clear they are looking for a starting gig only. Unless thier tune has changed, young Mr. Ramsey will be holding a clipboard this season. Who here thought Ramsey was not next year's starter?
I think the best thing to come out of this is- Everydamnbody better start doubting thier place. Get yo ass into shape and do your job!

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by camasterton
What other playoff team has two or is looking for two starting QBs?

Dallas, Miami, Baltimore, Seattle, and St. Louis all have either 2 starting QBs or are looking for a 2nd starter.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
As I said in another thread, what you ask for and what you get are two totally different things. Some of you guys are ready to jump off the bridge before Gibbs has even met with the man. All you are doing is speculating what he will be paid. I'll take a cap hit of $500k or so more now to win NOW.

$500k or so? Are you kidding me? First, we're gonna have to give him a signing bonus, which, being Mark Brunell, he'll want to be quite large. Let's say it's a four-year contract (probably with little intention of actually getting into the fourth year). The bonus for a player of his caliber and fame for that contract length would probably be at least $8-10 million. Then the salary comes in, which is another couple million a year. That's pretty much all the space we save from cutting Bruce thrown away. Would a second-round draft pick do that? Not even close.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
Dallas, Miami, Baltimore, Seattle, and St. Louis all have either 2 starting QBs or are looking for a 2nd starter.

St. Louis: By now, we're not really sure if either of their QBs are true starting-caliber. Warner's recent troubles are pretty obvious, and Bulger threw an ungodly number of picks this year.

Seattle: I don't think I'd call Trent Dilfer starting material anymore.

Baltimore: Well, you've got a journeyman game-manager and a rookie who was on IR for half of his first season. I guess they can start there, but they wouldn't be starting here.

Miami: Griese, by now, obviously isn't #1 material. And they're looking to replace Fiedler, so how much does that tell you?

Dallas: Oh, come on.....

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

let me first just say that i am a mark brunell fan......however, i believe we have more pressing needs, which all of you already are aware of. id rather keep our 2nd round pick and spend on the DL or at RB. the first thing (or person) i thought of was patrick ramsey. how would this affect him? would brunell start or will it be a TC battle? i think Ram is our future but if we bring in brunell, i wont cry about it.

[tonedog12345]

lets just get peyton manning lol

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Spence
The best thing about getting Brunell is that it means Joe Gibbs believes the Redskins can make a run at the playoffs. Bad teams don't worry about having two good quarterbacks because they have too many other problems to solve. Clearly, no matter what he says publicly, Gibbs thinks the team should have two good quarterbacks because the rest of the talent good enough to contend.

This post makes the assumption that Ramsey will still be here if the Brunell trade happens.

[Patrick]

I agree with Robert - IF this Brunell thing goes down, I think that Patrick is going to be offered up for draft picks as well as our #5 and maybe even Gardner.

[Skins4life]

Ramsey has done NOTHING to lose his job. He has heart, and if given time and protection, he is dangerous. - Losing a second round pick is a BAD idea. We need D-line/RB/ etc. Getting a 33 year old QB or a 21 year old rookie with a future - This is a bad idea.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
$500k or so? Are you kidding me? First, we're gonna have to give him a signing bonus, which, being Mark Brunell, he'll want to be quite large. Let's say it's a four-year contract (probably with little intention of actually getting into the fourth year). The bonus for a player of his caliber and fame for that contract length would probably be at least $8-10 million. Then the salary comes in, which is another couple million a year. That's pretty much all the space we save from cutting Bruce thrown away. Would a second-round draft pick do that? Not even close.

No I'm not kidding you Joe. First of all, as I've said seemingly endlessly over the last few days, no one knows what it will take to sign Brunell. Secondly, no one knows what it would take to sign our 2nd rounder if we were to keep it. Even if Brunell was given a $8-10mil bonus, that doesn't equate to $8-10mil of space being taken up NOW. The contarct could and would be structured to minimize the hit in the early years, as all big money long term deals are. So, in essence, with your $8-10 mil bonus as an example, the hit in the first year could conceivably be only around $1-1.5 mil. Conceivably. And no, that doesn't wipe away the savings that Smith's retirement brings about. There would still be several $million left to play with.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

How long do you expect the contract ot be, Kenny? Like I said, I'd guess four years. With an $8-10 million bonus, that's a $2-2.5 million bonus in the first year. And I'd have to assume that his initialy salary would be somewhere in the $1-2 million range, so, conceivably, it could very well wipe out the $4.5 million we'll save by cutting Bruce.

[rskinsfan10]

Why would you assume that his intial salary would be that high? LaVar's base for the next two years is $500k+. Coles' base this past year is the same.

I can't say how long I expect the deal to be because I'm choosing not to speculate on that aspect. My point has been all along that we don't know what this deal, if reached, will be worth. Whatever it may be, I'm sure that our "capologist" will make it friendly to not prevent us from addressing other needs

Why are you assuming that Gibbs would be irresponsible with our cap space? If we the fans know that there are other needs, why wouldn't the coach know that also?

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I'm assuming his salary will be that high because his deal won't be as long as LaVar's or Coles'. There's no way we're gonna sign Brunell to an eight-year contract.

I'm not saying Gibbs will be irresponsible, I'm saying that might be as low as Brunell will go.

[rskinsfan10]

I'd like to add that I cannot see them giving Brunell that amount on a bonus and the life of the deal only being for four years.

[hail2skins]

This is interesting. I'm not too sure on this but wouldn't Brunell if he came want alot of that money guaranteed if his contract won't be a long one? So wouldn't that mean a larger signing bonus and a smaller yearly salary? I don't know. There's the option of incentives but would Brunell go for that? For example, if you win the starting position, you get ????, if you start so many games, you get ????

[skinsfanincali]

Originally posted by camasterton
Of course it's a big deal. What other playoff team has two or is looking for two starting QBs? Brunell and his agent have made it very clear they are looking for a starting gig only. Unless thier tune has changed, young Mr. Ramsey will be holding a clipboard this season. Who here thought Ramsey was not next year's starter?
I think the best thing to come out of this is- Everydamnbody better start doubting thier place. Get yo ass into shape and do your job!
said well, well said.