Ramsey/Bailey irony (my perception)

[rskinsfan10]

Interesting.

Champ Bailey states that he has no comment when asked whether or not he wants to remain a Redskin last summer. He rejects the offer that the FO throws out, yet never counters. He remains evasive when asked at other times during the year whether he wants to be here. A vast majority of posters yell "he doesn't want to be here, so bye bye". He has again rejected the Skins offer. Where's the loyalty from Bailey? Many of those same posters are in deep debate about what we should get in return for Bailey's seemingly certain departure. Can't wait for him to get out of town.

Patrick Ramsey's agent has stated at least a half dozen times that if the Skins sign Mark Brunell, he wants a trade. Some will say that Ramsey hasn't publically said it, but that's being nieve IMO. Sexton represents Ramsey. If he mispoke the first time, fine. But how do you explain the other times? Remember, Sexton represents Ramsey. I have no doubts that Ramsey wants out. If not, why not silence Sexton?

My questions are:

Where's the loyalty from Ramsey? The same loyalty that many of those that took/take issue with Bailey seem to be turning the other cheek on as far as Ramsey is concerned?

Why many of you who chastised Bailey seem to say that Ramsey has a right to be upset and demand a trade? Isn't he saying in even louder words then Bailey that he no longer wants to be here?

[Emmanouel8]

One's acting like a little greedy weasels the other a little crybaby.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
One's acting like a little greedy weasels the other a little crybaby.

i absolutely love both these guys, but i find it too hard to defend or agree with them. 5-11...change...nuff said

[dj_stouty]

Ramsey hasn't made a single public comment regarding his displeasure with the signing of Brunell.

Sexton is a typical agent who is upset that he could very well take a 60% decrease in commission due to escalators not being met in the Ramsey contract due to the Brunell signing. He has a long history with the Redskins and thinks he can make noise since he represents the one guy the Redskins desperately need restructured. (Samuels)

If Ramsey believes for one second that the Redskins would trade him away for a first rounder, then he will definitely not fire his current agent and start over. Doing so would set him back.

The biggest difference between the Champ and Ramsey situations? Everything we know about Ramsey's position is pure speculation. Evertying we know about Champ's position came straight from his mouth.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
Ramsey hasn't made a single public comment regarding his displeasure with the signing of Brunell.

Sexton is a typical agent who is upset that he could very well take a 60% decrease in commission due to escalators not being met in the Ramsey contract due to the Brunell signing. He has a long history with the Redskins and thinks he can make noise since he represents the one guy the Redskins desperately need restructured. (Samuels)

If Ramsey believes for one second that the Redskins would trade him away for a first rounder, then he will definitely not fire his current agent and start over. Doing so would set him back.

The biggest difference between the Champ and Ramsey situations? Everything we know about Ramsey's position is pure speculation. Evertying we know about Champ's position came straight from his mouth.

These are the points I was going to make as well. We've heard it directly from one but not the other.

[BigCountry]

Bailey has earned about 10 times more then Ramsey has at this point.

[rskinsfan10]

DJ and h2s:

So you two are saying that Sexton doesn't represent what Ramsey wants and feels?

If that is what you are implying, then why does Ramsey allow him to continue to say that he wants to be traded?

[Emmanouel8]

Ramsey isn't doing much to subdue his agent. I've never seen or recall a 3rd year player, w/ around 4-5 wins as a starter, moan about competition this much. Go out there and compete and tell your agent you have to produce to gain leverage not cry.

[hail2skins]

Interesting question rskins. Agents? We know what they think and we know what they do. Just because a player doesn't fire the agent doesn't mean they agree with what's going on. From what I've read and heard, Ramsey has contradicted his agent when questioned about the situation. Sexton IMO is working on the Samuals issue with this noise as opposed to Ramsey. He knows we really need to get something there. Until I hear it from Ramsey's mouth, it's just an agent being an agent.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
I've never seen or recall a 3rd year player, w/ around 4-5 wins as a starter, moan about competition this much.

Not to be picky...but Ram has 6 wins as a starter.

I love hearing the "descriptive" words being used for Ramsey lately. "Moaning, whining, crying, bitching...etc". I have yet to hear Ramsey moan, whine, cry or bitch during this process.

[SkinsGuru]

Champ does not want to be here AND he wants to make (and will make) a fortune.

Ramses may not want to be here, but he is still a VERY CHEAP, QUALITY backup QB.

enough said

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
DJ and h2s:

So you two are saying that Sexton doesn't represent what Ramsey wants and feels?

If that is what you are implying, then why does Ramsey allow him to continue to say that he wants to be traded?

In all fairness to Ramsey, Sexton could very well be making statements selfishly without the consent of his client. Wrong or right, I don't think Ramsey is in the position to fire him right now, especially if other teams are offering to trade for him.

If he fires Sexton tonight...and the Skins trade him to the Dolphins tomorrow, Ramsey will be in desparate need of an agent.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by hail2skins
Interesting question rskins. Agents? We know what they think and we know what they do. Just because a player doesn't fire the agent doesn't mean they agree with what's going on. From what I've read and heard, Ramsey has contradicted his agent when questioned about the situation. Sexton IMO is working on the Samuals issue with this noise as opposed to Ramsey. He knows we really need to get something there. Until I hear it from Ramsey's mouth, it's just an agent being an agent.

I have never heard Ramsey say that he didn't want to be traded. As a matter of fact, when he was on the news after he and Gibbs had the meeting and he was asked whether he wanted to be dealt, he started off saying something along of the lines of "the only way I would want to be traded..." and he took his answer in a direction of he was looking forward to competing. That's not exactly a denial. That was an opportunity to flat out end all of this trade talk. Are you telling me that Ramsey cannot tell his agent that he doesn't want to go anywhere?

Why does Sexton need to meet with Snyder to talk about Ramsey? He has 3yrs left on his deal. He need not worry about Ramsey at this juncture as far as the team goes. He should be concentrating on endorsement deals, not possible NFL trades.

[Emmanouel8]

Why is it that has to come out of Ramsey's mouth? That just plays into the hands of caniving agents that deflect bad press to themselves to protect their players image. Ramsey spoke last week and I didn't buy what he had to sell, his agent is running around all over the place yapping while Ramsey hides under a rock dreaming of being a cowboy.

[Emmanouel8]

rsf10 if you beat me to the punch one more time...

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
In all fairness to Ramsey, Sexton could very well be making statements selfishly without the consent of his client. Wrong or right, I don't think Ramsey is in the position to fire him right now, especially if other teams are offering to trade for him.

If he fires Sexton tonight...and the Skins trade him to the Dolphins tomorrow, Ramsey will be in desparate need of an agent.

Why would Ramsey need an agent if he were traded? He doesn't to my knowledge have a no trade clause, and any and every team that is interested in acquiring Ramsey love his current contract, so they wouldn't be needing to negotiate a new deal.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
Why would Ramsey need an agent if he were traded? He doesn't to my knowledge have a no trade clause, and any and every team that is interested in acquiring Ramsey love his current contract, so they wouldn't be needing to negotiate a new deal.

Very good question. I guess I have been assuming anyone trading for Ramsey's services could potentially give him a new contract upon joining the team.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
I have never heard Ramsey say that he didn't want to be traded. As a matter of fact, when he was on the news after he and Gibbs had the meeting and he was asked whether he wanted to be dealt, he started off saying something along of the lines of "the only way I would want to be traded..." and he took his answer in a direction of he was looking forward to competing. That's not exactly a denial. That was an opportunity to flat out end all of this trade talk. Are you telling me that Ramsey cannot tell his agent that he doesn't want to go anywhere?

Why does Sexton need to meet with Snyder to talk about Ramsey? He has 3yrs left on his deal. He need not worry about Ramsey at this juncture as far as the team goes. He should be concentrating on endorsement deals, not possible NFL trades.

So we're at a stalemate because you haven't heard him deny a trade and I haven't heard him request one.

As for Sexton meeting with Snyder to discuss Ramsey, I believe Sexton knows he has alot of leverage with the Skins right now because they need Samuels to restructure. So, it's one of those you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. You agree to trade Ramsey and I'll get Samuels to restructure.

As I mentioned in another thread, I can see why Ramsey may be letting Sexton go on with his talks. The Redskins has just agreed to a deal with Brunell that pays him a good contract and promises an open competition to become the starter. Chances are he will be the starter because he's a vet and that's a lot of money to pay your backup QB. So, if the reports are true that there are teams jumping to get Ramsey, then why not investigate those options. Of course this assumes that the teams jumping at Ramsey would name him their starter.

[rskinsfan10]

Mike, you have heard Ramsey ask for a trade. You have heard Sexton repeatedly ask for a trade for Ramsey. That's Sexton's job, to represent Ramsey and to speak for Ramsey in what Ramsey wants. Why do you feel that Ramsey is powerless in what his agent says publicly about is wishes?

[Monk4HOF]

Exactly. If Ramsey is not in favor of a trade he would have spoken out in the contrary to his loudmouth agent by now.

I did not expect this from Ramsey at all. I have almost heard enough. The second that I hear it from Ramsey's mouth, he should be shipped out on the next Fedex express flight to Miami for their #1.

We could pick up a heck of a DT in Randy Starks or Darnell Dockett with that late first rounder. If we find a second rounder as part of compensation for Champ, then we can bring in a JP Losman or maybe a Phillip Rivers who would be happy to come in and work behind Brunell for a few years.

Stop hiding behind your agent Patrick. If a trade is REALLY what you want, then come out and say it and the deal will get done. I want a young QB in here that will be ready to work and improve and learn what he can from a very talented and successful veteran QB. If it is not Ramsey I would be disappointed, but there are other options and the front office doesn't need to spend its time dealing with the threats of a notoriously difficult to deal with agent.

[hail2skins]

You can say that I have and I can say that I haven't. Yes agents do represent their clients but will speak on their behalf sometimes without the client's approval. If that happens, it's the clients fault for not stopping it. If Ramsey wanted to be traded as bad as we're hearing and is really upset with the situation then what would hurt him from just coming out and saying it himself. What's holding him back from doing that? I think if it came from his mouth, it would strengthen his position and would signal the Skins to do the trade because they/we wouldn't want a disgruntled player (especially backup QB) on the team. When Ramsey actually says it or is traded by us then I will gladly concede. Right now I believe

[rskinsfan10]

What agent do you know that will misrepresent his client 10 times? What client do you know that will allow his agent to misrepresent him 10 times?

If Sexton's words don't represent how he truly feels, then he should fire him and represent himself. Cut out the middle man so that no one will even be able to question your stance.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
What agent do you know that will misrepresent his client 10 times? What client do you know that will allow his agent to misrepresent him 10 times?

If Sexton's words don't represent how he truly feels, then he should fire him and represent himself. Cut out the middle man so that no one will even be able to question your stance.

I don't know if Sexton has said it 10 times or if his comment is just being reported multiple times and you're right, a client shouldn't allow his agent to misrepresent him. Maybe you are right about this whole situation and Sexton is delivering Ramsey's message but something about this just smells bad to me and that's why I want to hear it directly from Ramsey himself.


I totally agree with your cut out the middle man comment.

I also believed that Ramsey did answer no to the question about whether he would want to be traded. I can't remember where I read it but I'll look and see if I can find it.

Okay, found the article at Redskins.com that discussed the meeting between Gibbs and Ramsey. At the bottom it says when asked about a trade that Ramsey said no.

Here is the link
http://www.redskins.com/story.asp?ContentID=12543

[joethefan]

I feel you skins.. I personally am getting tired of this whole thisng with bailey...get rid of him..get our drafts worth and move on....

[VirginiaRedskin]

Clients typically do not even mention a player's name in a sentence if they do not have approval from him first. These guys are paid to play the "bad cop" in the media game to do the dirty work while the client says all the right things to protect their image. If you think that he would sit down at dinner with the owner and basically demand a trade without Ramsey's consent I have a couple a bridges for sell.

[Skinsfan1906]

I think that Ravens coach Brian Billick said it best last year; "these players need to understand who works for whom. Its the agent that works for the players....and not the other way around."

[rskinsfan10]

That redskins.com link and quote is a little fishy. It appears to be a little doctored up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34660-2004Feb11.html
When asked if he would request a trade, Ramsey responded. "The only way I would ever want . . . " Ramsey didn't complete the sentence, and quickly added: "I want to play. [Gibbs] said it's an open competition. I welcome that."

That Post quote is what I remember hearing him say on TV.

[Green-Is-Good]

I say that even if the words came straight from Ramsey's mouth, he has every right. Was he not told that we were to pursue a veteran BACKUP quarterback? We gave Brunell one hefty contract for a backup, no?

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
I say that even if the words came straight from Ramsey's mouth, he has every right. Was he not told that we were to pursue a veteran BACKUP quarterback? We gave Brunell one hefty contract for a backup, no?

No he wasn't told that it would be a backup. Ramsey assumed that it would be a backup.

From the Post link that I provided earlier:

Ramsey's "surprise" stemmed from discovering that the Redskins were after one of the NFL's most accomplished active quarterbacks. Friday, Gibbs told Ramsey that the Redskins had targeted a veteran quarterback without being specific. Ramsey assumed that the player would be his backup before finding out Saturday that the Redskins were after Brunell.

[Green-Is-Good]

Wow, this changes everything. I am dissapointed to say the least. I thought Patrick was above that.

[rskinsfan10]

Well, that seems to be one Ramsey supporter that has been turned off by his anti-Skins attitude of late.

Are there any others? Come one, come all....

[Death_Venom]

We are not hearing all of the facts in this caser-I am quite sure there is much more to the story...........

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
Well, that seems to be one Ramsey supporter that has been turned off by his anti-Skins attitude of late.

Are there any others? Come one, come all....

I think my arguments have spoken for themselves regarding my opinion on Ramsey since this whole issue.

[camasterton]

One shows passion. The other shows indifference. One wants to be a Redskin starter. The other wants to be in another comfy place. I know which one I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

[natgbz]

Hey folks, Patrick Ramsey's in the Carribean on vacation. It wouldn't surprise me if he hasn't somewhat cut himself off from the world and is just laying around on the beach just telling his agent to get him a little for cash on his contract. I think it's time to syop worrying about him and get ready to embrace clinton portis as the latest hot issue around the campfire...

[joethefan]

Your point exactly....I do believe that both Ramsey and Champ are both greedy crybabys....I hope their bth gone as long as we get equal value....

[REDMAN]

All of this keeps the off season so interesting.

[Shenadoah]

If Ramsey stays put, there's a chance he could win the starting QB position, there's a chance that Brunell comes up with a season ending injury and Ramsey becomes the starting QB, If Ramsey gets traded then theres a chance he instantly becomes the starting QB with a renegotiated contract with more up front money and not so heavy on the incentives. So if Ramsey stays there's a chance he comes out ahead and if he gets traded there's a chance he comes out ahead. Think I'd have my agent playing one side of the coin while I played the other side too. Sounds like smart business too me.

[Redskinmayhem]

I'll be honest, as much as I love Ram, he's turned me off with his whining. Of course this is all based on the perception of him that the media wants to put out.

I just thought he'd welcome competition. I thought he'd want to win the job and prove to everyone that he's better than an aging vet. Put Lavar in his place and you'd see the difference in attitude. Lavar would've strapped on his iron nads and said "lets go to work and see who comes out on top" I guess Ram just doesn't have the fire in his belly that we all thought he had. I hope he shows us different in the coming months.