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View Full Version : No more D-linemen this off-season?


Yudolindo
03-05-2004, 03:22 AM
Here (http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20040304-114536-8864r.htm)

The presence of Arrington and now Washington appears to be a key reason the Redskins are not chasing another defensive end. The club exited the bidding for star Jevon Kearse early Wednesday, and club sources said there are no immediate plans for any of the remaining ends.
That said, Arrington, who played third-down defensive end under Marvin Lewis in 2002, sounded somewhat concerned about a similar role when he spoke Wednesday at Redskin Park. The three-time Pro Bowl pick prefers to play off the line and run to the ballcarrier.
"The potential is always there for me to put my hand on the ground until we get a true speed rusher, and I don't know there are any out there anymore," Arrington said shortly after Kearse came to terms with the Philadelphia Eagles.

:confused:

Lavar is the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL and is as big and fast as most speed rushers, but I still think we need an every down guy who can get to the QB.

Odyn
03-05-2004, 05:39 AM
Udeze?

If we go after Deon Grant for free safety, then Udeze is obviously who we're after.

Farbod
03-05-2004, 05:54 AM
Udeze is over rated and one dimensional... Believe me, I went to several USC games this year... I think the only way we should trade down for him is if we can get a monster deal... You dont understand how good Sean Taylor is...

Odyn
03-05-2004, 06:04 AM
So then I guess you are comfortable with our line right now?

JoeDaSchmoe
03-05-2004, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Farbod
Udeze is over rated and one dimensional... Believe me, I went to several USC games this year... I think the only way we should trade down for him is if we can get a monster deal... You dont understand how good Sean Taylor is...

Did you go to several Miami games as well?

SkinsKY
03-05-2004, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by Yudolindo
Lavar is the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL

I don't know if that's even close to being true. Good blitzing LBs fight past offensive lineman. I've never even seen him break a block.

SkinsKY
03-05-2004, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Farbod
Udeze is over rated and one dimensional... Believe me, I went to several USC games this year... I think the only way we should trade down for him is if we can get a monster deal... You dont understand how good Sean Taylor is...

Julius Peppers is one dimensional. So is Kearse for the most part, so they probably wouldn't be worth having.

Okay, Show of hands: Who has heard that a better DLine makes your secondary better, and can cite examples? Good...I see your hands. Yep the Panthers and Bucs fall in that category.

Now, who has heard that a good secondary makes a defensive line better and can cite examples (This even includes defenses with gamebreaking safeties)? Hmmm...that's interesting, I don't see any hands...Oh, yeah the Safeties made a difference in the running game, but not when the QB dropped back.

It doesn't matter who you DBs are. Put Champ, Winfield, Sean Taylor Roy Williams in the same backfield and as long as there is no pass rush, they will get passed on. Teams can get by with soft corners and a good pass rush. It has never been said that good DBs mean you don't need good Dline. Seeing how we still have holes on DLine. Taylor can wait. "Gamebreaker" or not.

Patrick
03-05-2004, 06:39 AM
As of right now, the starting D-line is a much better unit than we had last year and we could get by with it. The additions of Daniels and CG is a big boost. Going into the draft we could go many ways (DL, TE, S) and not make a mistake but it comes down to what are we going to be able to afford. IF we trade down for additional picks, I see Gibbs&Co going after D Ball or the DT from LSU in the second. Also we might even see a OL (center probably) picked up too.

WinslowRedskin
03-05-2004, 06:43 AM
Winstrom gone to Seattle, so unless we get another Colt (Chad Bratzke) or Marcellus Wiley, I guess it's cool with me if we trade down.

GolfFreak
03-05-2004, 07:18 AM
Per the Skin website ... here are our DE's and DT's

DEs:
Clemons,_Nic
Daniels,_Phillip
Upshaw,_Regan
Warner,_Ron
White,_Greg
Wynn,_Renaldo
Zellner,_Peppi

DTs
Griffin,_Cornelius
Haley,_Jermaine
Killings,_Cedric
McGrew,_Reggie
Noble,_Brandon


I'm worried about our DTs right now ... I don't think we are done shopping.

hail2skins
03-05-2004, 08:23 AM
Who on ben's list would teams really be worried about?

Green-Is-Good
03-05-2004, 08:34 AM
Griffin wasn't feared last year, and he played beside Strahan, Hamilton, and Holmes.

PennSkinsFan
03-05-2004, 08:36 AM
I just posted in anotehr thread that I really believe they are done with the Line until Draft. Gibbs wil trade down and take whoever is avilable between Udeze, Wilfork, or Harris.

lsuredskin
03-05-2004, 08:41 AM
Tommy Harris?

Spence
03-05-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by benjamce
Per the Skin website ... here are our DE's and DT's

DEs:
Clemons,_Nic
Daniels,_Phillip
Upshaw,_Regan
Warner,_Ron
White,_Greg
Wynn,_Renaldo
Zellner,_Peppi

DTs
Griffin,_Cornelius
Haley,_Jermaine
Killings,_Cedric
McGrew,_Reggie
Noble,_Brandon That's freaking hideous. I wonder if the front office learned anything from last season. All these moves at CB and LB won't make much difference if the line is still godawful.

skins74
03-05-2004, 09:13 AM
We could use a one dimensional player as long as pass rushing is the dimension he brings.

joeisgod
03-05-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by SkinsKY
I don't know if that's even close to being true. Good blitzing LBs fight past offensive lineman. I've never even seen him break a block.

i agree lavar needs to learn a thing or two about blitzing the QB. it seemed everytime the QB would pumpfake lavar would leave his feet that is a cardinal sin. Lavar has the athletic ability to be the best pass rushing linebacker in the league, but not the technique. I say let Gregg Williams coach hin up a bit!!!

skinsfanincali
03-05-2004, 09:25 AM
I think Coach Gibbs' "plan" will address the D line in time.

Smiley
03-05-2004, 09:25 AM
We still need one more solid tackle. Maybe someone that is already on the roster will step up. If Gibbs thinks someone will then we draft one of 3 players - Taylor, Fitzgerald, or Williams (WR) otherwise trade down and take DE later.

RichardBradley
03-05-2004, 09:29 AM
We could just start trading next years picks...

skins74
03-05-2004, 09:34 AM
Blitzing works when you have a good D-line that can open some holes and pick up double teams. IF you don't get this from you line then it will take to long for the blitzer to reach the QB and we get burned for a TD.. We need a pass rushing DE.

Brokenstriker
03-05-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Yudolindo
Lavar is the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL and is as big and fast as most speed rushers, but I still think we need an every down guy who can get to the QB. [/B]

You're on drugs right? Lavar is not the best blitzing LB in the NFC let alone the NFL. There are no style points in football ... good blitz = sack, fumble, tackle behind the line of scrimmage or a completely botched pass most likely leading to a INT. You must have been watching some other Lavar than I have. Maybe you are counting the times Lavar got to the runner or passer in the backfield ... and didn't make the tackle? I usually don't count those.

Redskinfan28
03-05-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Farbod
Udeze is over rated and one dimensional... Believe me, I went to several USC games this year... I think the only way we should trade down for him is if we can get a monster deal... You dont understand how good Sean Taylor is...

I've seen several Miami games live and I guess I don't know how good Sean Taylor is. He certainly did't significantly or noticably stand out in any of the games I saw.

lsuredskin
03-05-2004, 11:18 AM
Then you didn't see the games against Florida State. He dominated. There is no arguing that he is a great player but we need d-line and additional picks if possible. Our safetys were not that bad but they can't cover for 5 minutes while we wait for the d-line to put some pressure on the qb. Taylor won't change that at all.

Gibbskin
03-05-2004, 11:32 AM
We are a good defensive line away from being a superbowl threat. Come on front office, don't give up now. We are so close, come on you can do it.

Stinkfist0
03-05-2004, 11:55 AM
What about Marcellus Wiley? or Eric Hicks from UMD?

3CardMonte
03-05-2004, 12:07 PM
Havent really seen Lavar blitz ...seen him play def end where he couldnt disengage blocks to well....Thats 2 totally seperate beast there.

Also I think Greg Williams will do much more with our LB's this year than we have seen in years.

3Card

GloryHog
03-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Yeah, I think the D-line has been and still is the area that needs the most attention. Until that is fixed we will always have an Achilles heel.

Brokenstriker
03-05-2004, 01:14 PM
Manley is a free agent ... lets sign him!

Skin_Finatic
03-05-2004, 01:28 PM
Udeze Please

RedskinRyan
03-05-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by SkinsKY
Julius Peppers is one dimensional. So is Kearse for the most part, so they probably wouldn't be worth having.

Okay, Show of hands: Who has heard that a better DLine makes your secondary better, and can cite examples? Good...I see your hands. Yep the Panthers and Bucs fall in that category.

Now, who has heard that a good secondary makes a defensive line better and can cite examples (This even includes defenses with gamebreaking safeties)? Hmmm...that's interesting, I don't see any hands...Oh, yeah the Safeties made a difference in the running game, but not when the QB dropped back.

It doesn't matter who you DBs are. Put Champ, Winfield, Sean Taylor Roy Williams in the same backfield and as long as there is no pass rush, they will get passed on. Teams can get by with soft corners and a good pass rush. It has never been said that good DBs mean you don't need good Dline. Seeing how we still have holes on DLine. Taylor can wait. "Gamebreaker" or not.

i agreee 100%

Odyn
03-05-2004, 02:48 PM
Just like with the Yankees and the Red Sox, when one of them makes a move the other one counters. There is still one big name on the board. Warren Sapp. I am not crazy about him at all. But what if the Eagles or Cowboys were to go after Sapp. What would your thought be then?

Kanman21
03-05-2004, 02:50 PM
They'll definatley need to upgrade at either DT or DE before the draft. LaVar was a good blitzer in college but has not been used correctly in the pros in terms of blitzing, and he does need some work on shedding blocks. Maybe his move to the weakside will help that.

I think they should trade down and get Wilfork and sign Wiley or Hicks

Yudolindo
03-05-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Brokenstriker
You're on drugs right? Lavar is not the best blitzing LB in the NFC let alone the NFL. There are no style points in football ... good blitz = sack, fumble, tackle behind the line of scrimmage or a completely botched pass most likely leading to a INT. You must have been watching some other Lavar than I have. Maybe you are counting the times Lavar got to the runner or passer in the backfield ... and didn't make the tackle? I usually don't count those.

There are better way to disagree than to say that someone is on drugs. Lavar is an excellent blitzing LB, and will be if he is not already one of the best. He has exceptional moves, speed and power. I remember during the season under Marvin Lewis every single commentator on the subject agreed with me because he got to the QB and was becoming a nightmare for opposing Oís. He has trouble getting of blockers? Perhaps, but so do a lot of DEs who are only 250 pounds going against 300+ pound linemen. He is excellent in a three point stance and donít let a bad year and a contract dispute blind you to that fact.

Yudolindo
03-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by SkinsKY
Julius Peppers is one dimensional. So is Kearse for the most part, so they probably wouldn't be worth having.



Problem with this is that: Peppers is Peppers, Kearse is Kearse, but Udeze is Udeze. Being one dimensional is okay if you can get to the QB. Udeze may not be able to do that. I hope if we were to take him, we would trade down first.

Kanman21
03-05-2004, 02:57 PM
He's definatley solid as a pass rusher, but he was hellacious in college when he freelance blitzed as opposed to having his hand in the ground

Green-Is-Good
03-05-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Yudolindo
Problem with this is that: Peppers is Peppers, Kearse is Kearse, but Udeze is Udeze. Being one dimensional is okay if you can get to the QB. Udeze may not be able to do that. I hope if we were to take him, we would trade down first.

He got to the QB quite a bit... 16.5 times to be exact.

Yudolindo
03-05-2004, 03:31 PM
16.5 sacks is a lotÖbut he did it in college, in a relatively weak division and on the best team/defenses in college football. Sacks are harder to come by in the NFL. I am not saying he is bad; what I am saying is that we ought not put all of our eggs in one basket: trade down take him and a slew of other d-line talent. We canít fill every position with an expensive FA, but Udeze has many questions around him and is far from a sure thing.

Redskinfan28
03-05-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by lsuredskin
Then you didn't see the games against Florida State. He dominated. There is no arguing that he is a great player but we need d-line and additional picks if possible. Our safetys were not that bad but they can't cover for 5 minutes while we wait for the d-line to put some pressure on the qb. Taylor won't change that at all.

You are right about the Taylor dominance against FSU. Look at this quote from Bowden:

"I thought they had two dominating players out there, No. 26 and No. 81 [tight end Kellen Winslow]," said FSU head coach Bobby Bowden. "I haven't seen a safety that good in a long time. He hits as well as he covers."