Suprise Suprise!!

[rhyno]

Don Vito's newest redskins rantings.

Even the personnel men leaguewide who feel Clinton Portis is a terrific young back are in agreement that the Washington Redskins got hoodwinked on the trade that sent corner Champ Bailey and a second-round draft choice to Denver. Even as a straight-up deal, one-for-one, the Broncos would have had an edge, because cornerback is one of the most premium positions in the league, by any measure. But to have thrown in a second-round pick along with a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback who is just 25 years old was viewed as ludicrous. Then again, once Redskins owner Dan Snyder ill-advisedly made linebacker LaVar Arrington his top defensive player -- something about how Arrington wanted to be a Redskin for life and Bailey didn't -- he had no recourse but to get rid of the corner. There is only room for one stud defender and Snyder chose Arrington, while 31 other owners would have retained Bailey because of the position he plays. The addition of the second-round pick in the trade simply compounded the first mistake. Snyder typically overpays for everything and the trade for Portis was simply the latest example. From the Denver standpoint, the deal is a windfall, particularly when one considers that Mike Shanahan could have picked names out of a hat with some of his cornerback additions and done better. Shanahan signed Dale Carter as a free agent and that didn't work out. He drafted Willie Middlebrooks (2001) and Deltha O'Neal (2000) as first-rounders. Last time we checked, Middlebrooks was barely playing and O'Neal has been switched to wide receiver. In fact, the Broncos this week granted O'Neal permission to talk to other teams to see if he could work out a trade. So to those misguided Mile High souls who have e-mailed us to suggest the Broncos paid too high a price for Bailey, well, take a good look at the history behind why they desperately had to get a corner of his caliber.

One more miscalculation by Snyder in the big trade: He figured that, if you cut Arrington, the linebacker would bleed Redskins colors. Well, take a knife to almost any player in the NFL and what oozes out is green. Remember, Arrington is now walking around with a chip on his shoulder because he feels the Redskins shortchanged him by a cool $6.5 million in the blockbuster contract he signed three months ago. How happy do you think Arrington, who can be as surly as anyone in the league, is going to be playing for an organization he feels bilked him? By the way, sources tell us the $6.5 million in question comes in a 2006 roster bonus the team has the discretion to guarantee. It is not, according to the contract language, a binding guarantee.

[lsuredskin]

How many game did we win last year with Champ at corner. Champ was good, no doubt but we haven't been winning championships with him back there. I'll bet this guy my house we show more improvement than Denver will.

[Skin_Finatic]

Well never hearing this until we actually win (which will be this year)!

[akhhorus]

If its not a binding guarantee, then Arrington still has no-one to blame but his agent

[SkinsCT]

I am constantly surprised by how much of an SOB he is. There is something going on here.

[Monk81]

everything Gibbs has said about Bailey basically states that we had to trade him or he would have been a big pain in the ass for us so under the circumstances I think we made a great trade.

I didn't agree with us having to give up a 2nd as well but who cares CP for 2,000 in 2004.

Springs in 24 WILL BE AWESOME AS WELL. he will be out t prove he is still a shut down CB

[Gibbskin]

Lets see we now have a combination of Portis/Springs as where we once had Bailey/Candidate.....

Excuse me if I'm more excited with Portis/Springs.

[Spence]

Originally posted by lsuredskin
How many game did we win last year with Champ at corner. The same number of games we won with Lavar at linebacker.

[Spence]

It's not terribly controversial to suggest the Skins gave up too much by including a 2nd round pick in the Bailey-Portis deal. I think lots of people at this website agreed with that. At least, they did a few days ago.

The only thing that makes me feel better about the Bailey-Portis deal is the contract Denver gave to Bailey. Ouch.

[skinsone]

Can these journalist write something original. How many times do we have to hear that a CB is harder to find than a RB? Write something new.

[akhhorus]

Do you think Don Vito is angry for all of us putting up the questions for his chat?

[RedskinsDave]

Does he know that there are 31 other teams in the league? Like all-you-can-eat buffets, he spends too much time on the Redskins.

[Skinsdynasty]

I agree that losing the 2nd is ridiculous but I do believe Portis is a great deal at 22 and that Bailey has lost his edge. Seriously. His production is waay down. We'll see. Ill laugh my a$$ off if Bailey plays poorly next year and Portis runs for 1800

[Brokenstriker]

Originally posted by Spence
The same number of games we won with Lavar at linebacker.

Excellent Points!

[GloryHog]

Whether they admit it or not, I believe a lot of fans of other teams in our position would be happy to have Dan Snyder as their owner, mistakes and all. He refuses to accept mediocraty, and is willing to spend his money trying to get it right.

I do think a lot of them feel it's somehow unfair that the Redskins go out and sign a bunch of well known free agents every year and their teams don't. I think many also fear that sooner or later we're bound to finaly "get it right" and become serious contenders.

This being said, until we've actually won something, the national sports hacks find it politically incorrect to say anything complimentary about the redskins.

If the Skins run off four or five wins in a row, the writers will be stepping all over each other trying to get a front seat on the bandwagon, and the love fest will be on. If we loose a few, the rats will jump ship in a heartbeat. Its the nature of the business.

[RedskinsDave]

I think to say Champ lost his edge is ignoring the glaring lack of a pass rush last year. He's gone because he didn't want to be here, not because he couldn't do the job.

[rhyno]

Originally posted by akhhorus
Do you think Don Vito is angry for all of us putting up the questions for his chat?

He had to have been bombarded with about 100 questions mocking him for his skewed reporting between here and extermeskins..

[Brokenstriker]

Impressive that this guy can say Snyder overpays for everything when talking about Bailey ... I guess he hasn't read the news about Bailey's contract. Why is Snyder a bum and Shanahan a genius?

Also interesting how this guy appears to somehow "know" that the Redskins screwed Arrington. I guess he did a complete investigation into the contract definition process and has cleared the Agent of any blame.

Nothing like unbiased professional reporting huh?!

[RedskinsVision]

Snyder purposely overpays players in signing bonuses and stretch out the years of the contract so that they could include as many minimum salaries as possible w/ out getting hit hard in the cap. I think Snyder knows what he's doing.. he was a great businessman b4.. you don't become a billionaire by the time your 35 for no reason.
Altho I loved Bailey as a Redskin I'm very glad to see him gone! He is not worth $9mil/yr. Seeing him play all these years yes he's one of the better CB's but he's no Ty Law. He could tackle good for a CB but thats as physical as he can get. Remember Spurrier's first year when he tried to get Champ on offense and as a Returner? He FAILED miserably! He fumbled a punt and fumbled a reverse against Philly on Monday Night and showed he can't play 2 ways cuz he's too soft to have the ball.
And Arrington.. man.. he could really be our Lawrence Taylor if he just learns to control himself on the field a lil' more.. he's always overpursuing a play or running by a back or QB cuz he's going a 100mph instead of looking ahead and knowing how to slow down a bit like the great ones do.. I think he's still gonna be our LT but his personality suggests he's a floater and thats how he's gonna play. I just pray this contract situtation doesn't boil over cuz right now he's on the cusp of losing his Redskin pride w/ his complaints on having a diff. coach every year. Note to Arrington.. Some of us normal peple go through tens and hundreds of different bosses thruout our lives w/ out complaining much.. the only difference w/ you is that your making MILLIONS and we're making THOUSANDS.. big difference there.

[kelly]

Friday, March 5, 2004
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

~ ~ ~ Around the league

~ ~ Even the personnel men leaguewide who feel Clinton Portis is a terrific young back are in agreement that the Washington Redskins got
:confused: hoodwinked :confused: on the trade that sent corner Champ Bailey and a second-round draft choice to Denver. Even as a straight-up deal, one-for-one, the Broncos would have had an edge, because cornerback is one of the most premium positions in the league, by any measure. But to have thrown in a second-round pick along with a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback who is just 25 years old was viewed as ludicrous. Then again, once Redskins owner Dan Snyder ill-advisedly made linebacker LaVar Arrington his top defensive player -- something about how Arrington wanted to be a Redskin for life and Bailey didn't -- he had no recourse but to get rid of the corner. There is only room for one stud defender and Snyder chose Arrington, while 31 other owners would have retained Bailey because of the position he plays. The addition of the second-round pick in the trade simply compounded the first mistake. Snyder typically overpays for everything and the trade for Portis was simply the latest example. From the Denver standpoint, the deal is a windfall, particularly when one considers that Mike Shanahan could have picked names out of a hat with some of his cornerback additions and done better. Shanahan signed Dale Carter as a free agent and that didn't work out. He drafted Willie Middlebrooks (2001) and Deltha O'Neal (2000) as first-rounders. Last time we checked, Middlebrooks was barely playing and O'Neal has been switched to wide receiver. In fact, the Broncos this week granted O'Neal permission to talk to other teams to see if he could work out a trade. So to those misguided Mile High souls who have e-mailed us to suggest the Broncos paid too high a price for Bailey, well, take a good look at the history behind why they desperately had to get a corner of his caliber.

> http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1751618

[kelly]

~ ~ ~ hey,
at least your front office is doin' somethin' .
we (the jets) have done nothin' :banghead:
(so far).

[joeisgod]

i believe that we got the better end of the deal. a premeir running back can win a game for you a preimer cornerback can't

[Skinsfan1906]

haters!!!

[Spence]

merged

[bosshog001]

Since when are people now bashing LaVar?? I've never read anybody else say that he was overated and not a player to build a defense around.

I've got a lot more memories of LaVar changing the flow of a game than I have of CHUMP.

This guy is an idiot!!

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by joeisgod
i believe that we got the better end of the deal. a premeir running back can win a game for you a preimer cornerback can't

I agree: a Great CB can only effect 8-15 plays a game, while a great RB can effect over 30.

[Smiley]

So based on Shanahan's record with the CB position what makes this goon think this one will be any different. Compare the impacts that each player made last year : Bailey vs Portis. Hands down Portis wins. A franchise back is key (despite New England's success this year without one, it doesn't happen often) to any goo dteam. Champ is a top notch corner in the league, Portis is one of the best RBs in the league. Someone wrote above: how many games did we win with Champ? I hope Shanahan puts him on punt returns.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by Gibbskin
Lets see we now have a combination of Portis/Springs as where we once had Bailey/Candidate.....

Excuse me if I'm more excited with Portis/Springs.

That's a matter of perspective. And when Dan Synder is concerned, everybody in the media not only sees the glass as half empy, but that it is full of mosquito-infested water as well.

Sure, they could have taken the extra subtle step to put together that we essentially got Portis and Springs for Bailey (who wouldn't play here any more) and a 2nd round pick. And for less of a cap hit!

No. To these arrogant writers who get more out of reading what they writer then their readers, that would be too complex for their readers to understand. It's far easier to continue whacking the Burgundy and Gold piNata. Besides, if they didn't write such stories, how else could they work out their own inadequacy issues?

Time will tell on this deal. But strictly on paper, and from a management standpoint, it was a very good deal. Once these self-important, milquetoast sports writers get past what's on the surface, they may - they MAY be able to see all the pieces of the puzzle.

Oh, and I hate Pastabelly too.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by Skin_Finatic
Well never hearing this until we actually win (which will be this year)!

That was... coooold blooooooded. Bang Bang!

Oh, and you can't get on the guys about spelling Wistrom with an "n". I just checked out the EPSN site, where one of the links under ESPN Headlines said Winstrom to 'Hawks (http://football.espn.go.com).

LOL!

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by kelly
Friday, March 5, 2004
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

~ ~ ~ Around the league

~ ~ Even the personnel men leaguewide who feel Clinton Portis is a terrific young back are in agreement that the Washington Redskins got
:confused: hoodwinked :confused: on the trade that sent corner Champ Bailey and a second-round draft choice to Denver. Even as a straight-up deal, one-for-one, the Broncos would have had an edge, because cornerback is one of the most premium positions in the league, by any measure. But to have thrown in a second-round pick along with a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback who is just 25 years old was viewed as ludicrous. Then again, once Redskins owner Dan Snyder ill-advisedly made linebacker LaVar Arrington his top defensive player -- something about how Arrington wanted to be a Redskin for life and Bailey didn't -- he had no recourse but to get rid of the corner. There is only room for one stud defender and Snyder chose Arrington, while 31 other owners would have retained Bailey because of the position he plays. The addition of the second-round pick in the trade simply compounded the first mistake. Snyder typically overpays for everything and the trade for Portis was simply the latest example. From the Denver standpoint, the deal is a windfall, particularly when one considers that Mike Shanahan could have picked names out of a hat with some of his cornerback additions and done better. Shanahan signed Dale Carter as a free agent and that didn't work out. He drafted Willie Middlebrooks (2001) and Deltha O'Neal (2000) as first-rounders. Last time we checked, Middlebrooks was barely playing and O'Neal has been switched to wide receiver. In fact, the Broncos this week granted O'Neal permission to talk to other teams to see if he could work out a trade. So to those misguided Mile High souls who have e-mailed us to suggest the Broncos paid too high a price for Bailey, well, take a good look at the history behind why they desperately had to get a corner of his caliber.

> http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1751618

I think Pastabelly has some serious issues with Dan. I mean, he's downright hateful. Dad must have pictures of him with an inflatable goat or something. How else could Pastabelly, who is supposed to be somewhat unbiased, have such an obvious disdain for Snyder? It has almost turned into an all out verbal @ss kicking every time he mentions the Skins - and its getting worse.

[Odyn]

Originally posted by akhhorus
I agree: a Great CB can only effect 8-15 plays a game, while a great RB can effect over 30.

Even more! Think about play action, blocking, and pass catching. A cb is no where as important as a great running back. I think our past few seasons are a testament to that!!!

[skinsorbust]

look the only mistake dan has really ever made was last year.trading away our draft picks was not the smartest thing to do.spending the money is fine,it seems he pretty much escapes cap hell every year.but you need to fill in young talent thru the draft.i mean shoot,we never have any of our own young guys come to stardom from lower round draft picks.now we have two picks were we may have to consider trading out that spot just because of lack of picks.with all that said i would never trade danny for any other owner in the league

[RedskinsVision]

I don't think our Danny has made just 1 mistake.. 4-5 years ago when he signed oldies D. Sanders, B. Smith, M. Carrier, J. George, I. Fryar and got rid of B. Johnson, brought in Schottenheimer and proclaimed, "This is the first real Daniel Snyder signing" and then bringing in Spurrier as a total experiment. But all that is now forgiven w/ Coach Gibbs back and in charge!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

the wants to win and he will win by al means. once he gets this owner thing down to a science, everything will be all good!

[Jon Creveling]

Why do you guys waste your time reading these jokes? The funny thing is, alot of freaks believe all this ANTI-DAN press! Last year I ran into a Oiler to Titan fan that believed every little thing on Snyder! Here's what I don't buy, I don't believe Dan chose L.A. over Champ, maybe I'm and Ostrich with my head buried in the sand but I believe for whatever his reasons, Champ no longer wanted to be here,,,,,no matter what! So if you're Dan or any other owner, of any other team, who do you pick? The guy that wants to stay? Or the guy that wants out? I hardly read any of these things because you almost know what the Anti-Snyder press is going to wright,,,,before you even read it!!! I will L.m.b.off one day if Portis turns out to be everything we hope him to be and their 2nd doesn't pan out , and Champs finicky ass becomes the very rope that hangs Shanahan in Denver!!! ps, not trying to be funny, or a wise guy! That would be my fear if I was a Denver fan.

[NCskinsfanatic]

At this point I could care less for Lens opinion.Did I think we gave up too much with the 2nd?YES!However I am now in full support of Gibbs,his personel moves and that includes acquiring Portis.Bailey,I mean whatever,Ive stated how while great,hes not the greatest ever IMHO.LaVar probably isnt either but he damn sure wants to be here.Look how he has handled the dispute,with class.

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by Odyn
Even more! Think about play action, blocking, and pass catching. A cb is no where as important as a great running back. I think our past few seasons are a testament to that!!!

Actually Portis will effect every play he's on the field: the defense will be keying on what he does.

[DenverSkinsFan]

The local media here (except Woody Paige article in the Denver Post) still proclaim Wild Eye Shannahan as a genius. Its really annoying to hear the arrogance in the fans/coaches/writers to think that a good RB is a sure thing. Yes, Shannahan has had success with RB's in the past, but I hope whomever they draft turns into the next Curtis Enis, Ki-jana Carter or Ron Dayne. Clinton Portis is the real deal, and will be the backbone of the Gibbs' offense for years to come.

[skinsfanincali]

Len, Len, Len...
A column for justifying your salary, huh?
Just brushing the dirt off my shoulders...
Roland may again be victimized if the Broncos pass rush is no better than the one he left in DC.
With Coach Gibbs, I doubt that the D line will be left in shambles.

[MDSkins]

well, i love champ and he did not complain about his contract at all and played hurt, especially last year..

However, there is no way that he will influence the game like CP will, since CP will touch the ball atleast 25 times each game, as opposed to champs 5-7 touches...maxxxxxx.

I don't like giving up a second round choice, but CP is the real deal, who will work hard and reward the Redskins for restructuring his deal.

We are about to see a whole new era in RB, and Byner is coaching him.....which I think is awesome, since he IS old school.

[joethefan]

As much as the AFC team pass, Bailey's nick name will be "apple butter"