Trade Gardner....Please

[ArRiNgToN_56]

Dan if your reading this please please trade Rod for a pick i beg you.

I suggest we trade him to a reciever starved Team namely the 49ers the lost Owens and there bound to lose Streets to wi th that being said trade Gardner for there second and call it good. Oh yeah and draft Sean Taylor:D

[Gibbskin]

Who do you suggest we get to replace him?

[ArRiNgToN_56]

1 word: McCants

[Gibbskin]

McCants is our #3, who do we get for #3, anyway you slice it, we get weaker by trading Gardner. I'm not for it unless we get another reciever in return.

[Green-Is-Good]

We could re-sign PJ and promote him to #3. Or give Jacobs a shot.

[akhhorus]

that would ok avec moi, but that would leave the skins with Coles, McCants(maybe), Jacobs and Russell. Johnson is a UFA. They would need to address the position somehow; especially if they lost McCants.

[Green-Is-Good]

That is why I said we should re-sign him:banghead:

[PennSkinsFan]

I agree with this thread. Trade Gardner. Move PJ to numbe rthree and get Jaciobs ready. Coles, McCants, PJ. and Jacobs, along with a sweet dose of PORTIS!

[MrWiggles]

I can't imagine we'd get much for him, not with the WR's available in this draft.

Why are so many people down on Gardner? I thought he had a decent year last year, particularly considering the QB for 1/3 of the season.

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
I agree with this thread. Trade Gardner. Move PJ to numbe rthree and get Jaciobs ready. Coles, McCants, PJ. and Jacobs, along with a sweet dose of PORTIS!

PJ a UFA, Bi/Bi

[frankez99]

Call me an ACC fan (Maryland) but why would you give up on Gardner so early..he is what every team needs...a big 2nd wide receiver..it would be classic Redskin style to give up on him....Rod has the skills to get us 4 to 7 td's....what else can you ask of the guy?

[Houskin3]

I agree with you frankez99. I think Gardner still has a chance to be a top level receiver in this league. He has the tools, size and speed, most of the rest can be coached.

If you look at many of the top receivers, they also struggled in there first 2-4 years in the league. Take a look at the early years of Tim Brown, Moulds, Terrel Owens, Amani Toomer and Rod Smith to name a few, none of them put up numbers significantly better than Garnders.

Now that we have a running game, we should be able to play action our way to a much better passing game and I see Garnder having a huge year. IMO

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I say keep him this year. We won't get good value for him with the WRs in this draft, and I'd like to see how he does in a real offense.

[soccmarvin]

No keep Gardner cause McCants is not ready to become the Number 2 receiver yet, Gardners a big receiver and still an asset, McCants is great at catching touchdowns but still has alot to learn. Taylor Jacobs hasn't shown me he can compete yet for anything and PJ hasn't shown much at all. With Coles, Gardner, and McCants we have a solid group of wide receivers I say we keep all of them cause they are young and still developing. In the future it'll be better for us to keep them.

[SonnyandSam]

I don't understand all this negativity towards Gardner. Yeah, he dropped some balls but Johnson dropped even more and McCants dropped his share, too.

Gardner got pushed into the possession receiver mode while LC took over the homerun pass. Gardner has great size, good speed and is not afraid to go over the middle. He certainly played well enough that Spurrier kept him as the #2 receiver during the year.

Besides, he won't bring much in trade. The draft is full of talented receivers and there are several free agents available, too.

I just don't see him bringing us what he is worth.

We have four talented receivers and we will need all four. Keep him unless some team wants to be stupid....

Are you McCants fans afraid of a little competition? If he is so good, let him prove it to Joe in Camp!

[Death_Venom]

I think we need to HOLD onthe "Trade Gardner" chants until the end of NEXT SEASON. Let's wait and see how RG performs under Gibbs-I am hoping for a BREAK YEAR as well for RG but only time willl tell..............As far as replacing him with DMC I think that would be UNWISE at this point. Not because I dislike DMC but because I like DMC as our #3 guy-and I would like to see him grow more before forcing him into the #2 spot.........

[Yudolindo]

Like others have said: all you will get in a trade for Rod Gardner is a bucket full of pennies; no more, no less. There is no point in doing it, so we may as well give him another shot in an actual NFL offense.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I don't think we could get a 2nd for Rod. There's no reason to trade him now. Coles, Gardner and McCants are a solid 1-3.

[syphy]

Gardner isn't a big play guy but he IS a good possession guy. Big, good hands. He's not a burner or a consistent big play guy like Coles, but he is good at what he does, and i see absolutely no reason to trade him. He did well last year, and should do better in the Gibbs offense. He didn't rack up a ton of yards last year but did well complementing Coles, he caught 5 TD's and 30 first downs, Mr Gibbs Offense should only help these, think Ricky Sanders/Gary Clark. Plus he threw 2 TD's ;)

[truant]

Ha ha, Gibbs used to love the trick plays. Remember Byner and Mitchell throwing passes?? I suppose Gardner could do some of that too.

There really isn't a need to deal Gardner, when is he a FA? Depending on how the McCants situation works out, his future with the team hangs in the balance.

I've never been a fan of Rod, even before we drafted him, but he's better than whatever value that we'd get for him now. I think McCants would have a legit shot to beat him out at camp. Either way, I see Rod here next year.

[SkinsRock36]

I Would keep him. Plus we dont know if jacobs is good yet.

[lsuredskin]

Trading him is a terrible idea. Just like many of you have said, this draft is the deepest for wr's in years. Why would we lose one of our starters for say a 5th round draft choice. And I like McCants too but look at his numbers, he didn't do all that much outside of the redzone. Don't you think if he was so much better than Gardner they would have thrown to him more?

[joethefan]

I need to see hime in a real offense...I think Jacobs can be ok...we need to give him some time...he never really got on the field alot...due to injury ... I think given some time he'll surprise some people.

[dj_stouty]

DMC is taller than Gardner, and has proved himself to be a #2WR. He consistantly makes clutch catches in clutch situations, and that is more than you can ask of a WR2.

[mhd24]

Mccants had the worst drop ratio on the team (#catches dropped/#oppurtunties). Gardner is thicker, faster, quicker, and has better hands. Mccants has never gone against #2 Cb's, and is too long a strider to be a split wr.

[Skin_Finatic]

if we did trade gardner start mccants, and put taylor at #3, I am not a big fan at all of patrick johnson.

[LuvSkins17]

Earlier in the game I wanted to see Gardner traded because I felt we could have gotten something for him. Now, with the "young bucks" coming into the league and the FA market, Im not so sure we will get a good value for him. I still think McCants "can and will" be better than him and I would like him to be better in the B & G. McCants need more opportunities, and he would get that with Gardner gone.

Im reading a lot of people feeling that Gardner is a good "Possession WR"..... How good of a Possession WR could he be if he drops so many passes. You could bet money that at least 2 or 3 times a game Gardner would be laying on the stomach, pounding his fist on the field, mad "with himself", that he should have caught that one. I would like to see McCants resigned now so that he can take the #2 job from Gardner and let him want to leave. Did you see how upset Gardner got when SS bumbed him to 3rd WR last season?

[IndianBaller27]

no! keep gardner. hes good, how do u think we won our first 3 out of 4 games. cuz everyone was lookin at coles and rod gardner got easy catches.

[skins74]

Gardner could become a Pro Bowler under Gibbs and we would never know. I say keep him and if Gibbs decides that McCants can be the #2 then I will be for it. I really think McCants is going to be a #3 WR for his career, he is a good possesion receiver but he lacks speed. Gardner is a better receiver and I would not want to see PJ at #3. If TJ comes on strong then everything changes.

[guinness4health]

trade gardner for a 2nd round pick (we wont resign when he becomes a free agent after next year he will want to much)
mccants needs to be resigned (will be a much cheaper version of the gardner)
taylor jacobs and patrick johnson can fill in for the 3rd receiver.

[guinness4health]

besides there is a distinct drop off after the first 4 wide out this year...

after mike williams, fitz, roy williams, reggie williams no one is close to garner is talent,
that means he has value (at least a 2nd)
talk to the niners or the patriots both want a big reciever

[BurgundyNGold]

Check out this play breakdown for the Redskins WRs in 2004. I go this from theHuddle.com.

None of our WRs were putting the lights out in the stadium last year. But Gardner earned his nickname of "50-50".

Coles, Laveranues
- Thrown To: 160
- Catches: 82
- Pct: 51.25%
- Yards: 1204
- YPC:
- TD: 6

Gardner, Rod
- Thrown To: 116
- Catches: 59
- Pct: 50.86%
- Yards: 600
- YPC: 10.17
- TD: 5

McCants, Darnerian
- Thrown To: 55
- Catches: 27
- Pct: 49.09%
- Yards: 360
- YPC: 13.33
- TD: 6

Johnson, Patrick
- Thrown To: 35
- Catches: 17
- Pct: 48.57%
- Yards: 180
- YPC: 10.59
- TD: 1

NOTE: I left out Jacobs, because he was worthless last year.

A 50.86% completion for a possession receiver (10.17 YPC) is ridiculous! That means that he's dropping half of his 10 yard passes!

Right now he sucks but he might be worth something to Gibbs., who knows. And if I'm not mistaken, he's a FA after this season or next.

[skins74]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skin_Finatic
if we did trade gardner start mccants, and put taylor at #3, I am not a big fan at all of patrick johnson. [/QUOTE


I agree.

[skins74]

You can call all of them 50/50 by their percentage but what about actual drops? Note: They were playing in the SS system.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by skins74
You can call all of them 50/50 by their percentage but what about actual drops? Note: They were playing in the SS system.

There's a difference when your percentage is 51.25% and your YPC is nearly 15. That says that you're streching the field (barely). I'd like to see Coles up around 18 or 20.

But to have a 10 YPC average says you're running short and intermediate routes, outs and ins. To drop 50% of those are unacceptable.

For longer passes, the odds are lesser that the ball will actually get to you to catch. This affects the percentage negatively, as you don't get a chance to catch some balls that are counted against you in this type of statistic. However, the odds of a ball making it to you and being catchable are much greater for short an intermediate routes.

[dj_stouty]

You also have to remember that every time a WR is overthrown, it counts against him for that %.

Ie...the Ramsey overthrow to Coles on the flat at the end of the Eagles game. Coles was thrown an uncatchable ball, and thus didnt' catch it. Unfortunately, those %s don't account for that.

[skins74]

Lets see what they all can do under Gibbs and then we can rate them.

[champisachump]

How about we just trade gardner because he has no hands. That way we can get a solid d line player in the second instead of overpaying and old person. not to mention, mccants is BETTER than Gardner. I'm pretty sure he is now faster than Gardner, and he has better hands. Plus, you cannot compare how much better Mccants is at running routes to gardner. Gardner should be traded this year. Otherwise, we're just going to let him go next year, getting nothing.

[truant]

There's little doubt in my mind that McCants would step in and perform just as well as Gardner (probably better) but the value probably isn't there to trade Rod.

But if his contract is up after this year, may as well get something for him now. If Justin McCairans went for a mid second, a 3rd for Gardner is reasonable.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
You also have to remember that every time a WR is overthrown, it counts against him for that %.

Ie...the Ramsey overthrow to Coles on the flat at the end of the Eagles game. Coles was thrown an uncatchable ball, and thus didnt' catch it. Unfortunately, those %s don't account for that.

That's true, but if you assume that each WR is as likely to get a poorly thrown ball coming his way as the next, it becomes a constant that can be factored out. In other words, if Ramsey is likely to hit his target 7/10 times, each receiver is starting out with that same percentage before they even get a chance to catch the ball.

[straightupbeast]

dont trade gardner cause we cant get anything good for him..remember he was a 14th overall pick

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by straightupbeast
dont trade gardner cause we cant get anything good for him..remember he was a 14th overall pick

Kinda wish we would've traded down and picked up Chambers instead ;)

[straightupbeast]

yeah but still gardner isnt all that bad

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by straightupbeast
yeah but still gardner isnt all that bad

Not worth a 1st round pick. Probably not even worth a 2nd. I'd pick him with a 3rd... maybe.

[straightupbeast]

yeah i guess so but he had a 1000 yard season 2 seasons ago and i think he is a solid no. 2

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by BurgundyNGold
That's true, but if you assume that each WR is as likely to get a poorly thrown ball coming his way as the next, it becomes a constant that can be factored out. In other words, if Ramsey is likely to hit his target 7/10 times, each receiver is starting out with that same percentage before they even get a chance to catch the ball.

It also counts against the WR if the ball is deflected, intercepted, etc.

[BurgundyNGold]

Receivers usually have their "break out" in Year 3. That was last year for Rod. He actually took a step or two back from his Year 2 performance.

Sometimes, WRs break out in Year 2 and occasionally as rookies. If they don't break out by Year 4, then cut 'em.

If Gardner doesn't do it this year, he's gone.

[UKredskinsfan]

Now that we will have a running game, surely this'll help our receivers?

IMO Gardner should be given more time to see how he does in a Gibbs Offence!

[straightupbeast]

yeah we really have to give him a chance...he is a solid no.2 recevier

[lsuredskin]

I like that people actually believe we will get a lot for Gardner just because he was the 14th player chosen in the draft. So what. Ryan Leaf was a high pick but that doesn't mean the Chargers could have traded him for a 1st rounder. Gardner is not a bust. Of course he took a step back last year. Spurrier's system sucked and the qb's were either injured or in the process of becoming injured before they could get anyone the ball. R. Moss would have had a tough time catching passes when the qb is on his back. Give Gardner a break, he is a decent #2. We need him.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
It also counts against the WR if the ball is deflected, intercepted, etc.

True. But by the same logic, its just as likely to happen to any receiver as any other. This doesn't take away from the comparative value of the statistic.

[champisachump]

Why give Gardner a chance if we have mccants who is just as good if not better not to mention less expensive? Plus, we need to get rid of one receiver. Why not it be Gardner?

[straightupbeast]

gardner is a solid no. 2 i just cant see mccants being as good as gardner

[mhd24]

those statsitics you posted showed that Mccants had a WORSE ratio than Gardner. Gardner is signed for pennies the next two seasons, and you want to trade him? By your logic Mccants should also be traded since he technically 49.7/50.3.

[straightupbeast]

yeah we shouldnt trade gardner cause he isnt making a lot...just keep him and see how he works out

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by mhd24
those statsitics you posted showed that Mccants had a WORSE ratio than Gardner. Gardner is signed for pennies the next two seasons, and you want to trade him? By your logic Mccants should also be traded since he technically 49.7/50.3.

The numbers on Gardner is part of my justification. The other part is that 1) He was the 14th pick overall and a disappointment so far, and 2) He still has market value. What if we were able to trade away Westbrook after 3 or 4 years -- before folks caught on that he was all promise and no deliver?

McCants is bigger, faster and younger than Gardner. He can go across the middle and take a hit, unlike Gardner. And speaking of playing for pennies, McCants is far cheaper than Gardner, and will be even after McCant's new contract, wherever that might be.

I'm saying that I've given up on that experiment. It's a safe bet that he'll never be a #1 receiver or we wouldn't have had to get Coles. It's also a safe bet that he'll never justify his 14th pick overall status. McCants has more than made up for his 5th round pick position. Probably the best thing Marty did while he was here.

[MrWiggles]

Trading players because they don't live up to their draft position is foolish. Furthermore, I just don't think there is much of a market for Gardner. Thats the problem with being a decent player. He's not great, and he doesn't stink. GM's feel that guys that meet that description grow on trees.

If we get a 1st rounder I say trade him.
If we get a 2nd, probably.
If we get a 3rd or lower I think he's more valuable then the pick, particularly with Vinny's track record with the draft. Who is going to give up a 1st or 2nd in this years draft for Gardner?

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by MrWiggles
Trading players because they don't live up to their draft position is foolish. Furthermore, I just don't think there is much of a market for Gardner. Thats the problem with being a decent player. He's not great, and he doesn't stink. GM's feel that guys that meet that description grow on trees.

If we get a 1st rounder I say trade him.
If we get a 2nd, probably.
If we get a 3rd or lower I think he's more valuable then the pick, particularly with Vinny's track record with the draft. Who is going to give up a 1st or 2nd in this years draft for Gardner?

I don't say trade him because of his draft position. I say 1) trade him because he hasn't lived up to his potential, and 2) his draft position gives us an advantage when bargaining to extract a pick from a trading partner.

Strike while the iron is hot, and there is still relative value to be had. Like we did with Sean Gilbert and Carolina a few years back.

I'd take a 3rd for him. But, by looking at your trade thoughts, he seem to differ on our opinion of Gardner's talent. I hope I'm wrong, because the Skins need Gardner (or McCants) to step up.

[TwistyNiblet]

Trade him, and maybe select Mike Williams in the draft.

[MrWiggles]

According to last years stats, when compared to other #2 receivers Gardner is ranked ...

17th out of 32 in yardage
8th out of 32 in receptions
tied for 5th (with three others) in TDs

Thats the top 25% of 2nd receivers in receptions and TDs. Sounds pretty good to me for a #2, possession type receiver.

... and yes, I have way too much time on my hands.

[TwistyNiblet]

Wiggles - good stats, but can you imagine how much better they would be if he hadn't dropped the damn ball so much??

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally posted by TwistyNiblet
Wiggles - good stats, but can you imagine how much better they would be if he hadn't dropped the damn ball so much??

LOL! Yep, that's the "X" factor that you can't account for. I hope he gets that butterfinger thing under control.

[MrWiggles]

Originally posted by TwistyNiblet
Wiggles - good stats, but can you imagine how much better they would be if he hadn't dropped the damn ball so much??

Thanks. If you want to see something really ugly, check out his stats after Hasselback (sp) became the starter.

I agree the it would be nice if he caught a higher percentage of balls thrown his way. The fact that A)I don't see anyone else on the roster performing much better B)it will be tough to get value for him and C)the last thing we need is more holes to fill ... leads me to believe trading him would be a bad idea.

[camasterton]

I've read a number of NFL personel men say that thi is the deepest and best WR class in a long while. If that is true, there might not be a great market for him anyway.

[ItchySkin]

I say keep Gardner till his conract expires (I think this is his last year). He's a possession type of receiver who is tall and has decent speed. He'll be a great compliment for Coles. Also, this gives us an advantage against the nickel cuz Darnerian should beat most nickel CBs and this gives Jacobs more time to develop. For those ppl who say Gardner's production went down last year from his 2nd yr., it was because he was the primary receiver in his 2nd season.

[straightupbeast]

we mos def need to keep gardner see how he works out if he does nothing then get rid of him...does something keep him...makes good lemonade then we'll look further into it

[hailskins]

Keep Gardner. Let's see what Gibbs can do with him.

[straightupbeast]

gibbs does like the possesion receiver like gardner

[Skin_Finatic]

gardner will do great this season (I hope), Gibbs will turn him into the great reciver he is capable of being, but still for the work ethic he showed last season, I couldnt blame anyone for wanting to trade him