Why start over?

[Smiley]

Why? Patience my good friends. Gregg is the best thing for this team right now...it allows some consistency. I can't believe what I'm reading...all kidding aside...do you really want to start over? All we need is tweaking...not an overhaul. We made it to the playoffs for cryin' out loud!! Yeah...we had to run off 4 wins in a row to get in the playoffs.....that's what decents teams do......good/great teams build on that. Tweaking this lineup with some health will make such a difference on this team..the players are begging for it. I'm begging for it. Anyone we bring in will have to start from scratch...this team is built for Gregg Williams. The players we have are built for his defense...they know the defense. Al as an OC (and I think he'll stay if we entice him with the ability to open up the offense and a competition at QB) will benefit this offense. I remember telling the cab driver after the last game Marty coached as a Redskin (after beating the Cards in the rain) "we don't need Spurrier, Marty will work." But we had to have the savior. Have some faith in the direction Joe has given us. This is bothering me...it's pivotal. Support this guy..he has the heart and desire. I think his defense was tempered by Joe and given the chance, he will succeed. Who else will ever understand the season WE all went through? He went through it with us....he's family for cryin' out loud!! He belongs to us.....he's one of us. I think Gregg has learned the value of relating to a player as Joe did and we'll see the benefits of this payoff with a few moves here and there. Imagine having a semi-healthy year out of the offensive line?!! A new DE, CB and a LB. C'mon.....y'all have to see the light. We sign someone like Berrian and the receivers are set. We're so close. You'll take the heart out of this team all the while looking for heart out of them. We want another championship.....and this guy has a heart of one. Hail my brothers and sisters.

[joethefan]

you raise some good points but I wonder how great of a position Joe has left this team by being 20+ million over the cap and not using the draft to stack the team...if that is what he taught Danny, then are we really left in good shape?....I'm just asking the question. We have no one in the FO that is really capable of using the draft the benefit the team.

If Gregg doesn't have instant success, and if Cowher wants to coach next year..will Danny "The Big Splash" Snyder hold fast with Gregg or will he shoot for Bill next year?.....

Will AS stay if Gregg gets it...and Vice versa? That's the question.

Make no mistake there will be some change here, so lets get it in our heads. I would be in favor of starting over because this team was built wrongly from the start, even, with Joe here. Now he may have brought in some great players, ala FA but it's how many of them got here that has me worried more than anything.

[Skins-fo-life]

If they decide to start over and cut alot of the team, what will the cap situation look like. Is this one way to get under?

[ChapelHillMatt]

I hope we don't start over, I don't think we are that far away from being really good. Dallas didn't start over, don't see why we have to.

[joethefan]

Originally Posted by ChapelHillMatt

I hope we don't start over, I don't think we are that far away from being really good. Dallas didn't start over, don't see why we have to.

dallas wasn't throwing money and picks away like the 1st of the month either...they used the draft to stack the team and they don't panic and act pressed for players, when it may look like they can't land them. That's our MO not theirs..

[shally]

it is not a question of starting over.. we dont have to do that.

it is a question of getting the right front office/coaching model in place

getting a personnel man as GM (or whatever snyder wants to call him)
and then getting a HC and then assitants

this is the perfect time to do it as it will cause the least additional disruption

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by ChapelHillMatt

I hope we don't start over, I don't think we are that far away from being really good. Dallas didn't start over, don't see why we have to.

What are you talking about? They brought in a head coach(and offensive coordinator) who had no ties with the previous regime.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

What are you talking about? They brought in a head coach(and offensive coordinator) who had no ties with the previous regime.

They brought in someone that fit the personality of their team, they built off of what they were doing previously. They took a 9-7 team and turned it into a 13-3 team.

If we bring in Cowher or someone then we have to get rid of the good defensive players we have and get players that fit his system. The offensive players that have learned Al Saunders system will have to learn a new and different offense.

It's starting over and I think it's unnecessary. This team this year was a good team that just gave away a lot of games in the 4th quarter. I don't think talent is a problem but that's just my opinion.

[bigcmr]

Originally Posted by joethefan

you raise some good points but I wonder how great of a position Joe has left this team by being 20+ million over the cap and not using the draft to stack the team...if that is what he taught Danny, then are we really left in good shape?....I'm just asking the question. We have no one in the FO that is really capable of using the draft the benefit the team.

If Gregg doesn't have instant success, and if Cowher wants to coach next year..will Danny "The Big Splash" Snyder hold fast with Gregg or will he shoot for Bill next year?.....

Will AS stay if Gregg gets it...and Vice versa? That's the question.

Make no mistake there will be some change here, so lets get it in our heads. I would be in favor of starting over because this team was built wrongly from the start, even, with Joe here. Now he may have brought in some great players, ala FA but it's how many of them got here that has me worried more than anything.

I agree this is a playoff team. But barely got in. We have a chance to change our FO up a little. Get the right coach who ever it may be. And very easily be back in the payoffs next year. The question is what will Snyder do?

[akhhorus]

1. Williams hasn't shown that he capable of being a head coach in the NFL. Considering how much autonomy Gibbs gave Williams, I seriously doubt he "learned" anything from Gibbs.

2. Why not change a plan that's not working? Honestly: we had to rip off 4 improbable wins just to make the final playoff spot in a weak NFC. The plan isn't working.

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

2. Why not change a plan that's not working? Honestly: we had to rip off 4 improbable wins just to make the final playoff spot in a weak NFC. The plan isn't working.

Which part of the plan changes? The only thing I see is a different person[s] on the sidelines if they go outside.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by hail2skins

Which part of the plan changes? The only thing I see is a different person[s] on the sidelines if they go outside.

If Williams and Saunders are out, the plan changes at least with the coaching(which I took major issue with this season). We need a Gm period, but not getting one isn't justification for promoting Williams. And coaching matters, ask the Saints from 06, who still had the same terrible GM, but had a dynamic coaching staff.

[Hr fan]

Originally Posted by joethefan

you raise some good points but I wonder how great of a position Joe has left this team by being 20+ million over the cap and not using the draft to stack the team...if that is what he taught Danny, then are we really left in good shape?....I'm just asking the question. We have no one in the FO that is really capable of using the draft the benefit the team.

If Gregg doesn't have instant success, and if Cowher wants to coach next year..will Danny "The Big Splash" Snyder hold fast with Gregg or will he shoot for Bill next year?.....

Will AS stay if Gregg gets it...and Vice versa? That's the question.

Make no mistake there will be some change here, so lets get it in our heads. I would be in favor of starting over because this team was built wrongly from the start, even, with Joe here. Now he may have brought in some great players, ala FA but it's how many of them got here that has me worried more than anything.

Agreed. Everyone credits JG with making the playoffs without 6 starters (ST, CR, RM on D, and JJ, RT, and JC on O). Of these the 3 on D will not be available in 2008, and there is some question whether Jansen and Kendall can achieve the required level of performance throughout 2008. Of the remaining players, on D Godfrey will be 34+, there is some question whether Springs will be here due to cap/performance considerations, Daniels is 35, and Griffin is clearly wearing down. On O Sellers is 35, Fabini 35, Wade 32 and clearly in decline, there is no tall WR for possession, and OL problems have meant that Cooley is reduced as a possession/red zone weapon.

There are 7 areas of loss/concern on D and 4 on O IF Washington returns to former performance levels. This is 50% of starters. FA acquisitions have been questionable and in any event we are one of the teams most over the cap. Rookies rarely come in and play at a full journeyman level, and in any event we have only 6 draft choices.

No matter who is selected as coach, inside or out, this is a situation beyond "tweaking". On the other hand by 2009 we will have LL, Heyer and JC with another year of experience, get back RM and CR, and have 6 choices in the first three rounds. Bite the bullet and plan FA/draft for a future vision rather than "tweaking", which hasn't worked in the past and has even poorer prosepcts in the immediate future.

[bergiemoore]

Originally Posted by Hr fan

Agreed. Everyone credits JG with making the playoffs without 6 starters (ST, CR, RM on D, and JJ, RT, and JC on O). Of these the 3 on D will not be available in 2008, and there is some question whether Jansen and Kendall can achieve the required level of performance throughout 2008. Of the remaining players, on D Godfrey will be 34+, there is some question whether Springs will be here due to cap/performance considerations, Daniels is 35, and Griffin is clearly wearing down. On O Sellers is 35, Fabini 35, Wade 32 and clearly in decline, there is no tall WR for possession, and OL problems have meant that Cooley is reduced as a possession/red zone weapon.

There are 7 areas of loss/concern on D and 4 on O IF Washington returns to former performance levels. This is 50% of starters. FA acquisitions have been questionable and in any event we are one of the teams most over the cap. Rookies rarely come in and play at a full journeyman level, and in any event we have only 6 draft choices.

No matter who is selected as coach, inside or out, this is a situation beyond "tweaking". On the other hand by 2009 we will have LL, Heyer and JC with another year of experience, get back RM and CR, and have 6 choices in the first three rounds. Bite the bullet and plan FA/draft for a future vision rather than "tweaking", which hasn't worked in the past and has even poorer prosepcts in the immediate future.

I agree with some of the points you make.

However, I don't think that Wade and Fabini were ever expected to do anything other than ride the pine. Wade lost his job to Heyer, who initially stepped in to play during his injury. Jansen will be coming back in 08, as well as Randy Thomas, which will allow Fabini to resume his seat next to the guy that carries the cups of Gatorade. Lorenzo Alexander is also a project that many believe could be a long term solution at OG. I haven't seen any drop off in play from Pete Kendall this season, and am not sure why he wouldn't be able to perform next year, barring injury. OLine is one of those positions where guys can be effective into their late 30's, if their conditioning is just right. Losing 2 starting OLinemen is going to cause major problems for any organization. The Skins get those 2 back, and it will instantly upgrade the OLine without having to make any player moves. This should allow Cooley to get out of pass-protection more often, and run routes.

Sellers is also only 32, and hasn't had problems with injury. I don't see him as a problem area.

WR is definitely an area of concern. No doubt.

You are correct in that the defense is in worse shape, going into 2008. The Skins biggest priority ought to be a DE to replace Daniels. Wilson has come on as a 3rd down pass-rusher, but I don't think he would do as an every-down DE. Evans should be dumped, if he still can't kick Daniels off the top of the depth chart. Giffin is good for another year, although with the emergence of Monty and Golston, he'll have real competition for the starting spot. I don't think DT is an area of concern in terms of performance. Griffin will be asked to renegotiate his contract to help with the cap.

The big issues on defense are depth at CB, starting OLB and starting SS.

Does this mean that the Skins need to start over?

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by joethefan

Make no mistake there will be some change here, so lets get it in our heads. I would be in favor of starting over because this team was built wrongly from the start, even, with Joe here. Now he may have brought in some great players, ala FA but it's how many of them got here that has me worried more than anything.

This team was built with input from Danny, Vinny and Gibbs. You think it was built wrong. Take out Gibbs and insert whoever. How is it going to change with that structure still the same. Chances are Gibbs successor won't have the power of Danny and Vinny that Gibbs had. So you're talking about rebuilding wrong again.