can Shanahan succeed? most SB winning coaches don't with 2nd team

[44 goes 50 gut]

This guy was on WFAN today. Interesting reading here;

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...jaguars_102111

Basically almost no "big name" superbowl winning pedigreed coaches go on to have success with another team.

The first thing I thought of reading it is; these coaches are winning SB's with systems that they evolved and perfected WITH certain personel, then they go to a new team and try to force new players into their "perfected" system without the same give and take and the same experimental process. They aren't evolving their system any more because of course; the moment it won them a superbowl it was "perfected". They also may be prone to acquiring players that they think "fit" or "are like so and so" player that they had success with previously, and you can imagine the trap of drafting a guy who reminds you of another guy... who then doesn't really turn out to fill the same shoes.

The other big possibility this raises is that a lot of SB winning coaches might do their winning with rosters at least partially built by the guy who did all the losing and got fired before they showed up. Which is at least a factor in many of the cases.

It's a pretty bleak statement about the chances of Shanahan turning the skins back into a champion. On the other hand there's always a first time.

[justinskins]

Mike Holmgren, Bill Parcells? They are the two I always think of (both made it back to the Super Bowl but lost with other teams).

[shally]

it is not anything except Shanahan's judgement regarding the roster and assistant coaches that is keeping him from a repeat coach.. he still has the fire and drive.. he may lack the ability to pick a SB level QB or to get lucky enough to stumble onto one

[redskin_rich]

Winning Super Bowls is very hard to do and takes a combination of things to go right. This point about SB winning coaches being unable to repeat with another team gets pointed out a lot but there is also a list of coaches that didn't have Super Bowl success until their second team - Vermiel, Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden.

Good coaches usually have success wherever they go and before any of us even start dreaming of Super Bowl victories, we need to have a team that can just make the playoffs on a regular basis.

Two years of losing records (which is where we are heading) must force Shanny to make some changes. The Skins should be winning by next year. Unfortunately, there will likely be a rookie QB manning the helm, which normally is a decent excuse for lack of wins but not so much in the 3rd year of a program. It shows bad or lack of planning.

I'm starting to believe something hR's own Patrick said a while ago, that Shanny is only good with a ready made team or at least with most the pieces in place. He is not good at building one.

[GibbsFan]

I wish Vince would have lived longer. I believe he would have turned the Redskins into Champions. Anywho, Joe Gibbs said it best "You win with people.", Shanny thinks it starts and ends with him.

You gotta have the talent, you gotta motivate that talent, and you gotta have a little luck. Shanny had all three when he first landed in Denver. Based just on what I have seen of his personnel decisions, I seriously doubt that even gets us back to the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong, and he wins five SB's in a row cause I'm tired of losing.

[Keino]

I believe Lombardi would have were it not for his sudden death. As others have mentioned, Holmgren and Parcells each came damn close.

[akhhorus]

Jmo, but part of it is that the NFL is constantly evolving, so what worked for the coach in year X isn't going to 4-5 years from then. The one common trail of the coaches who were successful for long stretches(or in multiple places) like Parcells, Gibbs, Belichick, Landry and Shula(among others) is that they kept changing what they did.

[Emmanouel8]

It is interesting that 2 super bowls 2 teams seems so elusive. Makes you wonder about all of the psychological influences involved.

As far as Shanahan the jury is still out. His judgement related to the QB position has had a monumental impact to his success thus far. His offensive coordinator's playcalling in addition to the lack of depth the team has across the board have also contributed to the teams lack of success. You can argue the depth issue but the QB and playcalling is damning at this point.

Shanahan better solve the QB position and fix the playcalling or he will be just another coach who couldn't do it somewhere else.

[nicefellow31]

Two teams two championships is pretty rare in all sports, which illsustrates how hard championships are to achieve. In the NBA I can only think of Alex Hanumm, Pat Riley, and Phil Jackson. Tony Larussa and Sparky Anderson are the only two to do it in baseball. Nick Saban did it in college football. I don't know enough about the NHL. Any others?

[wide_awake]

Originally Posted by nicefellow31

Two teams two championships is pretty rare in all sports, which illsustrates how hard championships are to achieve. In the NBA I can only think of Alex Hanumm, Pat Riley, and Phil Jackson. Tony Larussa and Sparky Anderson are the only two to do it in baseball. Nick Saban did it in college football. I don't know enough about the NHL. Any others?

+1

I don't buy this article's reasoning. I think it has more to do with the statistical difficulty.

-1/32 wins
-league of parity
-salary cap makes it difficult to keep elite teams together
-draft system (unpredictible) replenishes teams
-physical sport with a lot of injuries

[colkurtz]

Shannihan and Allen could do better if he had better DC and OC. They are the keys. What Shannihan brings to the table is the ability to keep Snyder out of the operational team decisions. I think that Shannihan and Allen have shown that they can make good personnel decisions. But without going back to the failed philosophy of buying lots of over-the-hill FA, changing a team takes time and stability. The team is already changing but needs more time.

If Shannihan makes a tough decisions and fires either his son or Haslett and brings in a better OC or DC he can succeed.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by nicefellow31

Two teams two championships is pretty rare in all sports, which illsustrates how hard championships are to achieve. In the NBA I can only think of Alex Hanumm, Pat Riley, and Phil Jackson. Tony Larussa and Sparky Anderson are the only two to do it in baseball. Nick Saban did it in college football. I don't know enough about the NHL. Any others?

Scotty Bowman won Stanley Cups with the Habs, Pens & Red Wings. Can't think of anyone else in Hockey.

[44 goes 50 gut]

Guys its more than just winning another SB I believe the combined winning percentage of second go round coaches is something like .450

The guy who wrote that also suggests hungry up and coming coordinators are the best bet.

[culpeper]

There are still NFL FRANCHISES out there that have NEVER won a SB.

Im just hoping Shanny can make us perennial playoff contenders and when he leaves the team eventually, he leaves it in great shape for the next guy.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

is'nt don shula the only coach to win a super bowl with two teams as a head coach?(colts/dolphins) i know parcells took two team to the SB the giants and pats,and so did mike holmgren(packers and seahawks).when george siefert went to coach the panthers,his last season,he went 1-15.skins don't look that bad,but pretty close.