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  #46  
Old 02-08-2012, 04:55 PM
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Emmanouel8 Emmanouel8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
Sorry, but to me this is a stupid use of the franchise tag on a player who is not worth the money at all.
Agreed.

This should be an embarrassment, franchising a back up TE busted for pot smoking 3 times already, and then decided to finally show up in a contract year.

Let the man walk, we are not a TE away from being anything and can find one just as lazy and smoked up for far less. We're too incompetent to even use the franchise tag the right way. Football 101
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  #47  
Old 02-08-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
I rank players based upon what they do, not what they would have done had their stats been extrapolated over 16 games.

Off the top of my head, here are the TEs, I would rank higher than Davis: (In no particular order)

1. Gates
2. Gonzo
3. Gronkowski
4. Witten
5. Hernandez
6. Celek
7.Marcedes Lewis
8. Graham
9. Winslow
10.Olson

and I can make arguments for:

11. Pollard
12. Shockey
13. Boss
14. Cooley

Not to mention, TEs do more than catch the ball. They also need to block. The TEs who didn't outperform him listed above as a receiver are most certainly better blockers.

Sorry, but to me this is a stupid use of the franchise tag on a player who is not worth the money at all.
Would take Davis, hands down , over Celek, Olson, and Winslow.. Davis is clearly an ascending player.. the others are on the decline

the pot issue and immaturity are part of the whole deal for sure.. but talent wise, i think he is way better than the above guys.. the second group are clearly on the decline

also, look at who he had throwing to him..
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  #48  
Old 02-08-2012, 06:53 PM
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Would take Davis, hands down , over Celek, Olson, and Winslow.. Davis is clearly an ascending player.. the others are on the decline
Celek: 511 yards/4 TDs in 2010, 811 yards/5 tds in 2011
Olsen: 404 yards/5 tds in 2010, 540/5 in 2011
Winslow: 730 yards/5 tds in 2010, 763/2 in 2011.

Not really in declines. And they've all been consistent with their production.
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  #49  
Old 02-08-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
Celek: 511 yards/4 TDs in 2010, 811 yards/5 tds in 2011
Olsen: 404 yards/5 tds in 2010, 540/5 in 2011
Winslow: 730 yards/5 tds in 2010, 763/2 in 2011.

Not really in declines. And they've all been consistent with their production.
while youre correct, not really declines and they have been consistent, its a stretch(or at least very debatable) to say some of those guys are better or more talented than fred davis. Interesting no Vernon Davis on the list either...
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  #50  
Old 02-08-2012, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ibleedburgundy View Post
I would add Gresham and Finley but take away Pollard, Shockey, and Cooley. Anyway, if any of those remaining guys are making significantly less than $5.5M, they are underpaid IMO.
Thanks. I Knew that I was forgetting some damn good TEs.

Shally, you're nuts if you would take Davis over Winslow or Olson. This is not at all about the pot issue for me, though that is a red flag. This is about making sound business decisions by not bidding against oneself. I have no problems signing Davis. He is not worthy of being tagged.
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  #51  
Old 02-08-2012, 07:30 PM
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while youre correct, not really declines and they have been consistent, its a stretch(or at least very debatable) to say some of those guys are better or more talented than fred davis. Interesting no Vernon Davis on the list either...
Another good call. Perhaps I should stop doing lists off the top of my head.
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  #52  
Old 02-08-2012, 08:00 PM
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while youre correct, not really declines and they have been consistent, its a stretch(or at least very debatable) to say some of those guys are better or more talented than fred davis. Interesting no Vernon Davis on the list either...
Davis had a good 2011. Outside of that, he really hasn't done much. One year wonders(and to be honest, I wouldn't call his 2011 a "wonder", it was good) aren't top 10 at their position unless they turn in a dominating season. Gronk and Jimmy Graham were top 7 among all players in receiving yards in 2011(and both were top 4 in receiving TDs).

As for how Davis ranks among TEs, I would trade him(putting aside salary considerations) straight up for 13 other TEs in the NFL(Gronk, Hernandez, Graham, Witten, Gonzo, Keller, Vernon, Celek, Finley, Miller, Gresham, Daniels and Gates).
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Last edited by akhhorus : 02-08-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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  #53  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
Thanks. I Knew that I was forgetting some damn good TEs.

Shally, you're nuts if you would take Davis over Winslow or Olson. This is not at all about the pot issue for me, though that is a red flag. This is about making sound business decisions by not bidding against oneself. I have no problems signing Davis. He is not worthy of being tagged.
again, look at who those others have throwing to them..Davis had a noodle armed QB, who was inaccurate as hell.. put him on the Eagles (with a TE friendly offense) or the Giants and his production would soar..

he clearly is an ascending player.. if his head is screwed on right, he will be better each year for the next 4 or 5 years.. and yes, I would take Davis over either of those guys you mentioned
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  #54  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
Davis had a good 2011. Outside of that, he really hasn't done much. One year wonders(and to be honest, I wouldn't call his 2011 a "wonder", it was good) aren't top 10 at their position unless they turn in a dominating season. Gronk and Jimmy Graham were top 7 among all players in receiving yards in 2011(and both were top 4 in receiving TDs).

As for how Davis ranks among TEs, I would trade him(putting aside salary considerations) straight up for 13 other TEs in the NFL(Gronk, Hernandez, Graham, Witten, Gonzo, Keller, Vernon, Celek, Finley, Miller, Gresham, Daniels and Gates).
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but none of the teams controlling those players are gonna trade them for Davis right now. I don't trust Cooley's health and don't want to spend a relatively high pick on a TE. We have money, for a change. I don't think it's the worst idea to force him to prove himself with another one year (franchise) contract.

And if you're right about it being a negotiating tactic toward a long-term contract, they better put some pot-protection clauses in there somewhere.
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  #55  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by skinfanjon View Post
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but none of the teams controlling those players are gonna trade them for Davis right now. I don't trust Cooley's health and don't want to spend a relatively high pick on a TE. We have money, for a change. I don't think it's the worst idea to force him to prove himself with another one year (franchise) contract.

And if you're right about it being a negotiating tactic toward a long-term contract, they better put some pot-protection clauses in there somewhere.
+1

you said it far better than i did
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  #56  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shally View Post
again, look at who those others have throwing to them..Davis had a noodle armed QB, who was inaccurate as hell.. put him on the Eagles (with a TE friendly offense) or the Giants and his production would soar..

he clearly is an ascending player.. if his head is screwed on right, he will be better each year for the next 4 or 5 years.. and yes, I would take Davis over either of those guys you mentioned
I'd definitely take him over Winslow and Olsen. KWII is breaking down physically, he may even be used up already. Olsen has hit his ceiling. I'm not a huge fan of Davis or anything, but this offense is already behind the curve. I just feel like letting him walk would be another step backward. And if he decides to starting splitting Dutchies again, it's an easy decision to part ways.
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  #57  
Old 02-09-2012, 12:20 AM
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Fred Davis is a really cool guy, I got drunk with him at Park one night (Last offseason).

Aside from that note I believe the Redskins will resign him. I agree he isn't worth a franchise tag price, but at this point I can't see the Skins selling as low as his value is worth.

A short 2/7 million contract or 3/11 year deal would be risky, but I would roll the dice if it meant the Skins could use draft picks on other more glaring holes.
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  #58  
Old 02-09-2012, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by shally View Post
again, look at who those others have throwing to them..Davis had a noodle armed QB, who was inaccurate as hell.. put him on the Eagles (with a TE friendly offense) or the Giants and his production would soar..

he clearly is an ascending player.. if his head is screwed on right, he will be better each year for the next 4 or 5 years.. and yes, I would take Davis over either of those guys you mentioned
If Davis was a consistent performer prior to Rex, I would buy the argument that its on the QB. Lets see him produce like that for a second year before we start selling the idea of a player on the rise. He is not some second or third year player.
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  #59  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:16 AM
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I agree with the sentiment of your post, but none of the teams controlling those players are gonna trade them for Davis right now.
Isn't that my point?
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  #60  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
Davis had a good 2011. Outside of that, he really hasn't done much. One year wonders(and to be honest, I wouldn't call his 2011 a "wonder", it was good) aren't top 10 at their position unless they turn in a dominating season. Gronk and Jimmy Graham were top 7 among all players in receiving yards in 2011(and both were top 4 in receiving TDs).

As for how Davis ranks among TEs, I would trade him(putting aside salary considerations) straight up for 13 other TEs in the NFL(Gronk, Hernandez, Graham, Witten, Gonzo, Keller, Vernon, Celek, Finley, Miller, Gresham, Daniels and Gates).
Lets not forget what Davis did in what, 2009?, when Cooley went on IR. Davis stayed at the park, put in work over the bye, and was our best player on offense for the rest of the season. I wouldnt call him a one year wonder, he has played pretty well when given the chance to play.

Im not even going to get into the ranking of TEs, but i will stand by my statement that i would take Davis over some of the guys listed in this thread


Quote:
Originally Posted by skinfanjon View Post
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but none of the teams controlling those players are gonna trade them for Davis right now. I don't trust Cooley's health and don't want to spend a relatively high pick on a TE. We have money, for a change. I don't think it's the worst idea to force him to prove himself with another one year (franchise) contract.

And if you're right about it being a negotiating tactic toward a long-term contract, they better put some pot-protection clauses in there somewhere.
I'm not sure if they can put a pot protection clause in a contract, and if they can, im not sure it would override the leagues Substance Abuse Policy, which i think is the law of the land when it comes to such matters. There are probably some creative ways to structure his contract to give us some protection, but im not sure it can be tied directly to drug use...


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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
If Davis was a consistent performer prior to Rex, I would buy the argument that its on the QB. Lets see him produce like that for a second year before we start selling the idea of a player on the rise. He is not some second or third year player.
I think Davis did pretty good in his second year when pressed into duty for Cooley, he was our best offensive player the remainder of that season. I wonder why some are failing to mention that. He has performed when given the chance to play, and its not exactly easy to get on the field when playing behind a guy like Cooley...
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