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  #46  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINSFAN1963 View Post
I Can see Vilma taking this to a court of law if he has to sit out a year.Just like snyder and jones will take the league to court if they are'nt satisfied with the salary cap ruling.
He can't take it to court. That's a fundamental rule of collective bargaining and arbitration. The only thing that a court can do when arbitration has been collectively bargained for is hear an appeal to determine if the arbitrator's decision is "drawn from the essence" of the CBA. Even if they find that there's no way the arbitrator can be right, the only thing a court can do is send it back for another round of arbitration. This isn't going to court, period.

On an interesting note, Shyam Das is the same arbitrator that ruled in favor of Braun and is apparently not going to release a written ruling outlining why he ruled the way he did.
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  #47  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:17 PM
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On an interesting note, Shyam Das is the same arbitrator that ruled in favor of Braun and is apparently not going to release a written ruling outlining why he ruled the way he did.
And the Braun case was a total joke. They tossed it because the tester mailed in the samples a day or two later(which was the only thing Braun really challenged).
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  #48  
Old 05-05-2012, 08:47 AM
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just going by what LEGAL ADVISERS are saying on nfl network,espn and the regular tv networks about the players taking this to court.obviously,they know more about it than anybody here does! don't get pissed at me,i'm just passing on the message here.
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  #49  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINSFAN1963 View Post
just going by what LEGAL ADVISERS are saying on nfl network,espn and the regular tv networks about the players taking this to court.obviously,they know more about it than anybody here does! don't get pissed at me,i'm just passing on the message here.
No one is pissed at you. Fent was just trying to share his knowledge with you. And I think he's right. Arbitration agreements aren't something you can just get out of whenever you want to. As for the talking heads on TV, they don't always get it right.
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  #50  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:02 PM
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He can't take it to court. That's a fundamental rule of collective bargaining and arbitration. The only thing that a court can do when arbitration has been collectively bargained for is hear an appeal to determine if the arbitrator's decision is "drawn from the essence" of the CBA. Even if they find that there's no way the arbitrator can be right, the only thing a court can do is send it back for another round of arbitration. This isn't going to court, period.

On an interesting note, Shyam Das is the same arbitrator that ruled in favor of Braun and is apparently not going to release a written ruling outlining why he ruled the way he did.
He's an idiot. The way Braun's sample was handled was in keeping with industry standards and was never compromised or handled in a way that would change the test results. Braun got lucky and an honest man got smeared.

The players probably have a good chance to get off now. I actually like their argument that the commissioner can't suspend them for things that happened under the old agreement.
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  #51  
Old 05-06-2012, 08:38 AM
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He's an idiot. The way Braun's sample was handled was in keeping with industry standards and was never compromised or handled in a way that would change the test results. Braun got lucky and an honest man got smeared.

The players probably have a good chance to get off now. I actually like their argument that the commissioner can't suspend them for things that happened under the old agreement.
If they can prove that the bounty system was going on in the 2011 season and Vilma/Hargrove were a part of it at all, then they'll just suspend them for that. Fujita would be off the hook.
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  #52  
Old 05-06-2012, 09:27 AM
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If they can prove that the bounty system was going on in the 2011 season and Vilma/Hargrove were a part of it at all, then they'll just suspend them for that. Fujita would be off the hook.
Actually, it looks like they don't have to prove anything. They can just claim they have the proof.
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  #53  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:19 PM
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Actually, it looks like they don't have to prove anything. They can just claim they have the proof.
If they didn't have ay real proof, the players/union would appeal on the facts. They're not, they're appealing on technical grounds. Probably because if the full facts came out(which, if I'm the NFL, I leak before the grievance) it would turn even the NOLA fans against the 4 suspended players.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:42 PM
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Give this time,because eventually it will turn ugly and both sides will start throwing *hit and insults at one another! If the NFLPA does manage to get the suspensions shortened or cut out,what is to stop the coaching guys that got suspended from raising hell and getting their sentences suspended?
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  #55  
Old 05-06-2012, 06:19 PM
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If they didn't have ay real proof, the players/union would appeal on the facts. They're not, they're appealing on technical grounds.
Or they are just making the argument they believe is strongest.
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  #56  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:10 PM
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Or they are just making the argument they believe is strongest.
If Vilma didn't throw 10k on the table twice and someone made up those stories, he would be fighting that accusation over saying "You can't punish us because of the new CBA and even if you could, Burbank should have decided."
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  #57  
Old 05-07-2012, 10:50 AM
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ng-suspension/
Ife Vilma or the NFLPA does'nt think Goodell has the right to issue punishment then why file an appeal?
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  #58  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINSFAN1963 View Post
just going by what LEGAL ADVISERS are saying on nfl network,espn and the regular tv networks about the players taking this to court.obviously,they know more about it than anybody here does! don't get pissed at me,i'm just passing on the message here.
Not pissed at you at all, just passing along that those talking heads are wrong. The Federal Arbitration Act makes it almost impossible to get out of an arbitration clause, especially considering that courts will err on the side of finding that an arbitration clause applies and, thus, removes their jurisdiction to hear anything other the "essence of the CBA" stuff.

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Originally Posted by RedskinsDave View Post
He's an idiot. The way Braun's sample was handled was in keeping with industry standards and was never compromised or handled in a way that would change the test results. Braun got lucky and an honest man got smeared.

The players probably have a good chance to get off now. I actually like their argument that the commissioner can't suspend them for things that happened under the old agreement.
There's a lot of scuttlebutt that Das let Braun off because of the 0-fer status of player appeals on PED charges. The theory goes he didn't want to be canned like the arbitrator was that found in favor of the Eagles in the T.O. suspension fight. That speculation only intensified when it came out that he's unlikely to release a report. As much as I wish I regret taking Sports Law this past term, it's actually pretty helpful in understanding how all this stuff is handled.
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  #59  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINSFAN1963 View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ng-suspension/
Ife Vilma or the NFLPA does'nt think Goodell has the right to issue punishment then why file an appeal?
Because when you're hit with something like this, you take every opportunity to clear your name or reduce the punishment. I haven't read the grievances filed, but I don't think anyone claims Goodell doesn't have the power to levy the penalty. I think they claim he isn't the appropriate person to hear the appeal. Either way, if they let the deadline pass, then no matter what happens at the grievance, they've waited too long and can't appeal to anyone, even if the arbitrator says they're correct and the appeal is heard by another party.
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  #60  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:01 PM
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The NFL evidence leak begins:

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Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.
(snip)

Quote:
Hargrove said Williams then said he was going to deny the existence of any bounty system, and that both Williams and Vitt instructed Hargrove to do the same. Williams also said: "Those [expletives at the NFL] have been trying to get me for years" and if all the Saints "stay on the same page, this will blow over."
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