"Surprises" vs. "Disappointments"

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by jaylen

Paul should have a distinct advantage with his speed at TE if he makes the leap well it could spell trouble for Cooley who isn't a strong blocker despite being a good playmaker in the past.

How about we wait for Niles Paul to get through a single training camp practice as a tight end before we start giving him Chris Cooley's job? Speed is nice, but until the guy proves he can do all the other things needed to play the position he is a very distant No. 3 on the depth chart.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

How about we wait for Niles Paul to get through a single training camp practice as a tight end before we start giving him Chris Cooley's job? Speed is nice, but until the guy proves he can do all the other things needed to play the position he is a very distant No. 3 on the depth chart.

This...

I dont get all the Niles Paul love. Isn't it just as plausible, even moreso, that the coaching staff has given up on Paul as a wr and threw him in at TE as a long shot and being able to use him as camp fodder in a position where we are one marijuana hit coupled with one bad training camp collission without bodies needed to complete an off season?

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

How about we wait for Niles Paul to get through a single training camp practice as a tight end before we start giving him Chris Cooley's job? Speed is nice, but until the guy proves he can do all the other things needed to play the position he is a very distant No. 3 on the depth chart.

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

This...

I dont get all the Niles Paul love. Isn't it just as plausible, even moreso, that the coaching staff has given up on Paul as a wr and threw him in at TE as a long shot and being able to use him as camp fodder in a position where we are one marijuana hit coupled with one bad training camp collission without bodies needed to complete an off season?

Davis and Cooley are both a bit small for a TE. Paul is listed(so subtract a couple inches) at 6-1 220. This won't end well lol.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by HanburgerBum

If Cam Newton puts up similar numbers in year 3 but Carolina remains dismal, I think Rivera would probably be in trouble. But, that is hardly the same as the instant situation with Shanahan-RG. Shanahan is only in his 1st year with RG--not 3rd. If RG in his 3rd season here is putting up numbers like Cam Newton's rookie season, I would think Shanahan would be in serious trouble if the Skins were still having double-digit losses.

You may argue that Shanahan is at fault for not addressing the QB situation sooner. Well, there was the ill-fated attempt with McNabb. It is unclear if there was any real opportunity to address the QB situation other than that. I doubt Cam Newton was available for trade. So, perhaps MS did address the QB position as best as he could have.

As between 5 wins and 8 wins, I really don't think it matters when the team is still rebuilding. Yes, win total does matter sometimes--but probably not in the way you think. Don't you wish the Skins had only 1 win last year instead of 5, so they wouldn't have had to fork over so many high picks to get RG or Luck?

I don't believe the acquisition of RGIII entitles Shanahan to a reset button when it comes to evaluation of his job performance. Like it or not, he doesn't get a pass from me for merely having a rookie QB when he has been here for 3 years. In many ways, his actions created the void at the position prior to this past rookie draft. I won't rehash those ways because that may steer the thread in a different direction than I want to take it.

So for me, my evaluation of the Shanahan regime starts with 2010 not 2012 when he gets a rookie, what we believe to be, franchise qb. He's had 2 years to upgrade the surrounding parts and so another double digit loss season is not acceptable to me on any level, unless the team gets really really unlucky with injuries.

And to answer your question, absolutely not. I want the Redskins to win every game, especially games that are winnable. Once we were out of contention, I would have been okay with losing to the Giants and playing Beck or Cormpton over Rex in an effort to "evaluate the postion" and we would not have had to give up the picks we did.

In short, a rookie QB is not an excuse for failure of the double digit loss variety. I (again) must point out the example of Andy Dalton and Cinci going 9-7 playing in a much tougher division than we play in currently and going to the playoffs. You think Marvin Lewis would have been given a pass for another dismal season? Of course he wouldn't havem, because the only thing that matters are the results. Wins and Losses. That is the standard.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Keino

I don't believe the acquisition of RGIII entitles Shanahan to a reset button when it comes to evaluation of his job performance.

Especially when he gave up 3 firsts and a 2nd for him.

Not to pick the scab, but: how is the McNabb/Shanny situation irrelevant to Rg3/Shanny? Both are QBs Shanny chose, both are QBs he paid a high price for.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Especially when he gave up 3 firsts and a 2nd for him.

Not to pick the scab, but: how is the McNabb/Shanny situation irrelevant to Rg3/Shanny? Both are QBs Shanny chose, both are QBs he paid a high price for.

To me they are different in that one is a rook while the other was an aging vet. They are both obvious attempts to upgrade the QB situation, and I don't have a problem really with either attempt. My problems come from the results and the apparent lack of due diligence with the first attempt.

In both cases, my expectations are/were .500 or better, but for differrent reasons.

I expect the rook to have his struggles. I also expect that our coaches will scheme in such a way that minimizes those struggles and allows the team as a whole to be moderately successful.....again, I don't think that's unreasonable.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Davis and Cooley are both a bit small for a TE. Paul is listed(so subtract a couple inches) at 6-1 220. This won't end well lol.

Precisely. Sometimes I think folks forget that TE isn't just another WR. There is quite a bit of additional responsibility that goes along with playing that position.

[Emmanouel8]

The Junkies and a lot of folks are writing off Cooley, which IMHO is ridiculous.

People are assuming Fred Davis will automatically build on his decent contract year. One I don't think he's performance was that great. Two also don't think it's automatic he will be much better than last season. He will likely be around where he's been. Unreliable and sporadic.

If Cooley is healthy he will win the job, and as previously stated, be RGIII's best friend. I shutter to think of going into the season relying on Chong Davis.

Niles Paul at TE wouldn't even work on Madden.

[justinskins]

Originally Posted by Keino

I don't believe the acquisition of RGIII entitles Shanahan to a reset button when it comes to evaluation of his job performance.

Not a reset button, but it will give him a pass for a year unless Robert Griffin looks like Blaine Gabbert. He's on a five-year deal, so year four was always going to be the real test for him.

[Red Bear]

i think its ridiculous that some media are writing cooley off based on niles paul learning TE. It could be possible that Paul is being groomed to replace Davis, but next year, not this year. Cooley and Davis are both good receiving threats, but theyre different players. Cooley is good at finding holes in the zone, he moves the chains consistently, and makes some tough catches. Davis is more athletic, faster, and is more of a big play threat than Cooley. Cooley is the better blocker of the two. Paul seems more suited to play Davis' role than Cooleys. Paul will still have to make his way on special teams too...

[HanburgerBum]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

How about we wait for Niles Paul to get through a single training camp practice as a tight end before we start giving him Chris Cooley's job? Speed is nice, but until the guy proves he can do all the other things needed to play the position he is a very distant No. 3 on the depth chart.

I think both you and Jaylen have good points. And, there is no reason why you both can't be right.

I believe TE has evolved into a very important position--especially the receiving aspect of it. Many teams are playing schemes where the TE has become more important than the RB. So, more and more TEs are now making rosters.

I can visualize the Skins keeping 4--maybe even 5--TEs. Davis and Cooley will play prominent roles--often taking the field simultaneously. Paul will be an occasional deep threat and would be kept for his potential and perhaps to replace Cooley next season. Paulsen will primarily be a blocker. And, if there is a room for a 5th TE, Quinn as a backup.

The room for a 5th TE will be created by carrying less than the normal number of RB/FB--or, and this you will like, by cutting Grossman and going with only two QBs.

[HanburgerBum]

Originally Posted by Keino

I don't believe the acquisition of RGIII entitles Shanahan to a reset button when it comes to evaluation of his job performance. Like it or not, he doesn't get a pass from me for merely having a rookie QB when he has been here for 3 years. In many ways, his actions created the void at the position prior to this past rookie draft. I won't rehash those ways because that may steer the thread in a different direction than I want to take it.

So for me, my evaluation of the Shanahan regime starts with 2010 not 2012 when he gets a rookie, what we believe to be, franchise qb. He's had 2 years to upgrade the surrounding parts and so another double digit loss season is not acceptable to me on any level, unless the team gets really really unlucky with injuries.

And to answer your question, absolutely not. I want the Redskins to win every game, especially games that are winnable. Once we were out of contention, I would have been okay with losing to the Giants and playing Beck or Cormpton over Rex in an effort to "evaluate the postion" and we would not have had to give up the picks we did.

In short, a rookie QB is not an excuse for failure of the double digit loss variety. I (again) must point out the example of Andy Dalton and Cinci going 9-7 playing in a much tougher division than we play in currently and going to the playoffs. You think Marvin Lewis would have been given a pass for another dismal season? Of course he wouldn't havem, because the only thing that matters are the results. Wins and Losses. That is the standard.

Fair enough. You find 5 wins this season unacceptable. But, I think so long as RG has a big rookie season, there will be very few fans upset no matter how many wins the team gets.

As for Shanahan, I think his longevity here will very much be dependent upon how RG performs--at least for this coming season. Starting in 2013, I think win total will be more critical.

I think the NFC East is the toughest division in the NFL, followed closely by the NFC North and AFC North. Then, comes the NFC South. As for the other divisions, they are mediocre or bad.

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by Lacquer Head

Dude, no offense but it sounds like you don't know much about weed.
Fred will be fine. Trent will be fine.

What are you talking about?

[Keino]

Originally Posted by justinskins

Not a reset button, but it will give him a pass for a year unless Robert Griffin looks like Blaine Gabbert. He's on a five-year deal, so year four was always going to be the real test for him.

I cannot speak to what the plan was or wasn’t. I can only speak to what I can accept as a fan of this team and I cannot accept another double-digit loss season from this coaching regime. He got his pass from me when he decided to stake his rep on Rex Beckman and only because he took immediate corrective action on that point.

Giving him a pass because his rookie QB struggles is giving him a reset button IMPO.

[AustinSkin]

Originally Posted by Keino

I cannot speak to what the plan was or wasn’t. I can only speak to what I can accept as a fan of this team and I cannot accept another double-digit loss season from this coaching regime. He got his pass from me when he decided to stake his rep on Rex Beckman and only because he took immediate corrective action on that point.

Giving him a pass because his rookie QB struggles is giving him a reset button IMPO.

Agree completely. I will be very annoyed with a sub .500 season unless there are catastrophic injuries in all facets of the team. If we wind up with a patchwork O-Line (again), Rex under center, and a hobbling defense, then I can accept that we weren't destined for success this year.

But this team has showed up younger, in shape, enthusiastic, and ready to roll. If they are healthy and post a sub-par season - then I will hold the coaching staff accountable.

Like your sig - Anything less then 8-8, and I will also hate.