What are you looking for against the Bears?

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

if banks wants to make this team,he needs to step it up tonight when he is thrown a pass.i'd like to see morris get some more time with the 1st team too.
i hope that rg3 really does'nt take any hits from anybody,and i cringe everytime i see jenkins tackle somebody.and i think cooley has made the team,but niles needs to step up and show he belongs as a tight end.

[markrc99]

cal_junior wrote:

"And can you explain which exceptional traits Cooley doesn't possess that are normally associated with NFL TEs?"

His size and strength aren't weaknesses, but nothing exceptional. A good one can threaten the deep middle and he lacks the speed to do that effectively. Do you really believe he's an exceptional blocker? The other night he didn't look like a guy wanting to mix it up because he's fighting to make the team. He was avoiding contact like he was a sure thing, which he is. You & many others are enamored with him, I'm not. Let's just leave it there.

[FanFromArizona]

Alfred Morris with the start, interesting.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by markrc99

His size and strength aren't weaknesses, but nothing exceptional. A good one can threaten the deep middle and he lacks the speed to do that effectively. Do you really believe he's an exceptional blocker? The other night he didn't look like a guy wanting to mix it up because he's fighting to make the team. He was avoiding contact like he was a sure thing, which he is. You & many others are enamored with him, I'm not. Let's just leave it there.

I'm not enamored of him as much as I'm having trouble with some of your criticisms. I don't think he's one of the elite TEs in the game at this point in his career. But I do think that over the course of his time in the league he's been a consistent top-10 TE. And the numbers back me up on that.

I'm more than willing to be proven wrong. But thus far you haven't backed-up your opinion of Cooley with any objective evidence. I respect your opinion, but you have to actually defend it.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by httr#1

Hail guys,

we had this one a couple of times at redskins.com .

Is there a reason why you reference "redskins.com" in virtually all of your posts?

[httr#1]

hail cal junior ,
it hasn't been in all my posts maybe 4 to 6 out of the 18 or so .
when i mentioned them its because i think this site is much better ,its a complement and to bring some insight from another fan site.

i still post over there but its a zoo.
hope that explains things .

now to the game,
not so good ,hit a brick wall in this one,banks td return is the only bright it looks like so far.

HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

[smoak]

Originally Posted by httr#1

hail cal junior ,
it hasn't been in all my posts maybe 4 to 6 out of the 18 or so .
when i mentioned them its because i think this site is much better ,its a complement and to bring some insight from another fan site.

i still post over there but its a zoo.
hope that explains things .

now to the game,
not so good ,hit a brick wall in this one,banks td return is the only bright it looks like so far.

HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

I think there were some other positives. Morris ran well considering there were linemen 1-2 yards deep on every snap. He needs to improve on pass blocking. I thought Royster ran hard from the couple touches he got. Cousins, Alexander, Paulson look solid. Josh Wilson got crossed on one play but looked good overall.

[httr#1]

Hail guys,

now that its the next day and 2 reruns of the game ,

over all not so bad .
griffin did better than first thought showed elusiveness and started to look better towards the half ,cousins did well getting us in position to win the game who would think a 57 yard field goal by chicago.

banks td was a bright spot. td given up by special teams low spot.

still think they still are trottling down the offense not showing all that griffin can do(vanilla) also to keep griffin grounded enough not lose his poise.

kicking game will go down to the wire.

work in progress


HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by markrc99

hail2skins wrote:

cal_junior wasn't being confrontational, as what he initially wrote and what he meant were different things. So I wish to retract that comment. Here, not unlike some of the others, you're misrepresenting what I said. Which wasn't that these two "should have won games alone", but that they never made the guys around them and especially those behind them, any better. A player's production can be broken down into perhaps, five categories or considerations. Money time, garbage time, utilization, degree of contention and interdependence of teammates.

Everything you've said implies they should have won games because as you put, they didn't impose their wills on defenses. It does take a QB to get the ball in their hands. I'd like to know when is it never "money time"? I find that though very odd and interesting

Originally Posted by markrc99

What I'll be doing this year, I've done (to varying degree) for a long time. I'll be watching the game, I'll be recording the game and then I'll be breaking it down. My "opinion" of these two players is based on studying them, not something I was told or just what I would prefer to believe. You're like the eighth guy who has thrown up their statistical record, like it's gold or something and thinking it's going to stick. I'm sorry, but these two have been the kings of garbage time and what's uncontested!

Do you think you're the only fan that does this? That's nothing special at all. A lot of our members do it. Will you be sharing your breakdowns with the community. Since you say they are the "kings of garbage time", what evidence do you have to backup that claim. Since stats don't work for you, provide us with your evidence.

Originally Posted by markrc99

Now don't everybody panic, alright. Of course after all these years there is a body of evidence to the contrary. I'm merely saying the statistical record bears out that they consistently failed to produce when the team needed all that said production the most! You people don't have winning, you don't have scoring, you don't even have a highly ranked passing offense, you don't have anything. All you have is their personal accomplishments and you've all convinced yourselves that they did it with multiple defenders hanging all over them! Nice fantasy, but that's all it is.

What statistical record bears out that they consistently failed to produce when the team needed all that said production, as you put it Please provide that to us and remember, don't use stats.

I would also recommend not using "you people" it comes across the wrong way.

[httr#1]

Hail guys,
i 'll jump in on this ,with beck ,mcshabby and rex over the last 2 years alone how do you expect moss and cooley or anyone else to look like probowlers.
and 2 years before that zorn didn't have a snowballs chance with vinnies follies going on even though i liked zorn he was in over his head.

HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by httr#1

Hail guys,
i 'll jump in on this ,with beck ,mcshabby and rex over the last 2 years alone how do you expect moss and cooley or anyone else to look like probowlers.
and 2 years before that zorn didn't have a snowballs chance with vinnies follies going on even though i liked zorn he was in over his head.

HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

I believe that's a point several members have been trying to make. But it seems it goes in one ear and out the other.

[Death_Venom]

Originally Posted by httr#1

Hail guys,
i 'll jump in on this ,with beck ,mcshabby and rex over the last 2 years alone how do you expect moss and cooley or anyone else to look like probowlers.
and 2 years before that zorn didn't have a snowballs chance with vinnies follies going on even though i liked zorn he was in over his head.

HAIL to the REDSKINS!!!

Unfortunately people who play TE or WR are completely dependent on having a competent QB that can actually make decent throws and not bone headed plays (eq: Rex G.).

[markrc99]

hail2skins wrote:

"Will you be sharing your breakdowns with the community. ...What statistical record bears out that they consistently failed to produce when the team needed all that said production..."

Of course, I already have & if there are others here already breaking down players, certain plays, then it's my hope I can add something to those discussions. It took me, well, easily five years before I was really sure of what I was watching. But, I was recording & breaking down both 1pm games, the 4pm game, the pig out and the Monday nighter. The first thing I learned was that the flash of the play and the accompanying comments by the network announcers weren't all that reliable. Then it was that half, if not the majority of big plays weren't the result of a great effort but rather a colossal breakdown on the other side.

Griffin's fumble was one such play. The presnap there was that the DB (#21 Wright) was poised to come off the edge. The C doesn't pick this up and make an adjustment or forewarn his rookie QB and/or RB. The QB doesn't pick it up, which was important because they were wasting time trying to sell their run action on that play. Alfred Morris knows he's in pass protect, this is ultimately his pick up and he flunks his pre & post snap reads. What's worse is that the run action was to that same side, so how he misses reading what's right in his face is baffling. Finally, on the back side, it did not appear to me that Cooley was to chip on the DE & release into the pattern. He was suppose to help Davis with that block and his effort was pathetic. He was doing what any of us were doing....watching.

Cooley did have two early, impressive blocks on OLB Geno Hayes. Niles Paul helped him a bit with the first one. But what seems difficult for some is that there's another perspective. Hayes is considerably undersized and was trying to stack at the point. A guy that small is going to struggle to consistently give you that. Even with the lower center of gravity, he was easily getting out-leveraged. So there's three things there he can do. He can get lower, aggressively blow up the block (go low & cut Cooley and try to get back up off the ground to make a play) or become more of a moving target. To my mind, some combination of the 1st & 3rd options would be ideal.

I'd really prefer to get past discussing Cooley's career. The guy is going to be in their ring of fame, he's not going to be forgotten. To some, he's god-like, to me he isn't. You ask me to cite the statistical record without using stats, which is a bit much...isn't it? Besides, I've addressed that a number of times already. Here's a quote:

"And one longtime NFL general manager had this to say about tight end Chris Cooley: "...he’s not special. I don’t pay a guy like that much." http://washingtonexaminer.com/redski...article/703556

There you have it. See, I'm not telling you, a GM who has been in the league a very long time is telling you what? There's nothing special about this guy and he's overpaid! Let me help you out here. An executive who has been assessing talent for a long time means what exactly? Yeah, he has some idea of what he's talking about. I have reviewed the first half and will try to post something later today.

[smave]

Originally Posted by markrc99

hail2skins wrote:


Of course, I already have & if there are others here already breaking down players, certain plays, then it's my hope I can add something to those discussions. It took me, well, easily five years before I was really sure of what I was watching. But, I was recording & breaking down both 1pm games, the 4pm game, the pig out and the Monday nighter. The first thing I learned was that the flash of the play and the accompanying comments by the network announcers weren't all that reliable. Then it was that half, if not the majority of big plays weren't the result of a great effort but rather a colossal breakdown on the other side.

Griffin's fumble was one such play. The presnap there was that the DB (#21 Wright) was poised to come off the edge. The C doesn't pick this up and make an adjustment or forewarn his rookie QB and/or RB. The QB doesn't pick it up, which was important because they were wasting time trying to sell their run action on that play. Alfred Morris knows he's in pass protect, this is ultimately his pick up and he flunks his pre & post snap reads. What's worse is that the run action was to that same side, so how he misses reading what's right in his face is baffling. Finally, on the back side, it did not appear to me that Cooley was to chip on the DE & release into the pattern. He was suppose to help Davis with that block and his effort was pathetic. He was doing what any of us were doing....watching.

Cooley did have two early, impressive blocks on OLB Geno Hayes. Niles Paul helped him a bit with the first one. But what seems difficult for some is that there's another perspective. Hayes is considerably undersized and was trying to stack at the point. A guy that small is going to struggle to consistently give you that. Even with the lower center of gravity, he was easily getting out-leveraged. So there's three things there he can do. He can get lower, aggressively blow up the block (go low & cut Cooley and try to get back up off the ground to make a play) or become more of a moving target. To my mind, some combination of the 1st & 3rd options would be ideal.

I'd really prefer to get past discussing Cooley's career. The guy is going to be in their ring of fame, he's not going to be forgotten. To some, he's god-like, to me he isn't. You ask me to cite the statistical record without using stats, which is a bit much...isn't it? Besides, I've addressed that a number of times already. Here's a quote:



There you have it. See, I'm not telling you, a GM who has been in the league a very long time is telling you what? There's nothing special about this guy and he's overpaid! Let me help you out here. An executive who has been assessing talent for a long time means what exactly? Yeah, he has some idea of what he's talking about. I have reviewed the first half and will try to post something later today.

Okay, and this same GM probably has a guy on his team that our GM would say the same about. Take that with a grain of salt. Just because the guy has been in the league for a while, doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

[hail2skins]

Originally Posted by markrc99

hail2skins wrote:

There you have it. See, I'm not telling you, a GM who has been in the league a very long time is telling you what? There's nothing special about this guy and he's overpaid! Let me help you out here. An executive who has been assessing talent for a long time means what exactly? Yeah, he has some idea of what he's talking about. I have reviewed the first half and will try to post something later today.

Here's the rest of what that GM said.

Originally Posted by GM

Right now he’s a $3 million a year guy. [But] I’d want him. This quarterback needs every weapon he can count on and he’ll be a favorite target because he’s so dependable."

You seem to forget that members have said Cooley hasn't done much since the injuries but before then he was top 5 TE based on his production. You can't discount what he has done. Right now, he has to find where he fits and even he has said that in front of the camera.