I'm looking for a good answer to this question - Page 8

rskinsfan10 · #**106** 10-12-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskinfan28

Chew on this:

GW knows that Lavar has been undisciplined in the past, and that is the current "reason" he is not playing #56 in games. The fact that Lavar has not been playing has been the talk of the town this week in the media and the center of debate on message boards.

Isn't it true that the story is set up so that now, when Lavar gets in the game, he no choice but to play more desciplined defense because everyone is watching him. Stated another way, has this been a ploy by the coaching staff to ENSURE that Lavar plays within the system when/if he returns to the field? Otherwise, if he now freelances and allows a big play, they can always point to the tapes and say "See, he's undisciplined...")

Anyway just a thought....

That's an interesting theory and it may have merit.

However, in rebuttal if that were to happen then anyone that is paying attention, mainly the media that has access to ask the questions directly to Williams, should then point out other players that were out of position and in return allowed a big play to occur in their respective areas. I would love to hear Williams respond to those questions.

Cruising270 · #**107** 10-12-2005, 06:02 PM

I would love to see LaVar playing and I hope the day comes soon but I can't go along with the people who are saying LaVar should play for the simple reason he makes plays. Based on the strong theory that LaVar is not playing because of not following GW's system, I take the coaches side even if it means we don't get the same pass rushing ability.

The reason why is I can relate. I work as a manager in a sales atmosphere so my best interest is having the most talented and productive staff working for me because that's what makes me money. Now if my top sales person decided he was going to do things his own way and not follow the processes I have set in place I would be forced to set an example of him. Now I'm not saying I'm going to fire him right then and there, but I would be damned sure to get him back following my system and if he refused he would be gone. Reason being as a manager I'm more concerned about the whole of my department and not one person because if I let one guy do what he wants, then it opens the door of everyone doing what they want. Next thing my department changes from a smooth operating machine to a total disorganized NON PRODUCTIVE mess.

We are better without one "non-system playing" LaVar than 11 guys who are all running around doing what they want to do. I'm sure it's not any easier for the coaching staff to have their top producer out than it is for us fans. I can see the good behind doing it though.

Wild Bore · #**108** 10-12-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruising270

I would love to see LaVar playing and I hope the day comes soon but I can't go along with the people who are saying LaVar should play for the simple reason he makes plays. Based on the strong theory that LaVar is not playing because of not following GW's system, I take the coaches side even if it means we don't get the same pass rushing ability.

The reason why is I can relate. I work as a manager in a sales atmosphere so my best interest is having the most talented and productive staff working for me because that's what makes me money. Now if my top sales person decided he was going to do things his own way and not follow the processes I have set in place I would be forced to set an example of him. Now I'm not saying I'm going to fire him right then and there, but I would be damned sure to get him back following my system and if he refused he would be gone. Reason being as a manager I'm more concerned about the whole of my department and not one person because if I let one guy do what he wants, then it opens the door of everyone doing what they want. Next thing my department changes from a smooth operating machine to a total disorganized NON PRODUCTIVE mess.

We are better without one "non-system playing" LaVar than 11 guys who are all running around doing what they want to do. I'm sure it's not any easier for the coaching staff to have their top producer out than it is for us fans. I can see the good behind doing it though.

Bingo. And What you describe is exactly what has been happening in this franchise for many years now. That is what they are stopping.

GibbsRules! · #**109** 10-12-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hail2skins

This is really interesting. If I'm understanding you correctly here, you believe there is riff between Gibbs and Williams. You believe Williams is doing this of his own accord (because he has total autonomy of the defense) and that Gibbs doesn't agree with but is supporting him because he gave him that power and doesn't want to take it away. Is that what I'm reading from you? If so, I would have major problems with that. Gibbs being the head coach has the power and right to overrule any coach that is below him on his staff. If as you say, he's supporting this assistant coach, knowing his personal feelings is preventing Arrington from being on the field, then he's not doing a good job as a head coach. I just can't buy that.

I understand it to read that the rift is between GW and Lavar. If GW has our D playing at a high level without Lavar, how can Coach Gibbs override GWs authority to tweak something that doesn't need tweaking? Sure, Gibbs has the power to overrule anything he wants, but in this case would it not seem like he is micromanaging one of the better Defensive Coordinators in the League? What kind of message would that send to the other Redskin coaches and most notably GW, who quite possibly will be Gibbs' successor?

I hope it's not personal feelings that are the issue here and just Lavars work ethic in practice. That is something that can be easily overcome by Lavar himself.

camasterton · #**110** 10-12-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GibbsRules!

I understand it to read that the rift is between GW and Lavar. If GW has our D playing at a high level without Lavar, how can Coach Gibbs override GWs authority to tweak something that doesn't need tweaking? Sure, Gibbs has the power to overrule anything he wants, but in this case would it not seem like he is micromanaging one of the better Defensive Coordinators in the League? What kind of message would that send to the other Redskin coaches and most notably GW, who quite possibly will be Gibbs' successor?

I hope it's not personal feelings that are the issue here and just Lavars work ethic in practice. That is something that can be easily overcome by Lavar himself.

It has got to be LaVar's issue. I'm having a hard time thinking of another player, coach or Team official who has had issues with Coach Williams or Coach Gibbs for that matter. I have no problem coming up with a multi-page list of folks who have had a problem with LaVar. Does Sean Taylor occasionally "freelance" and get caught out of position? Coach Williams has not "benched" him or any of the other players who make mistakes. Did Sean Taylor have to earn his way on to the field? Damn skippy that happened, as with everybody else. It strains credibility that Coach Williams is only picking on poor poor LaVar. To believe that Coach Williams is spitefully holding out a "great" player who could help his Team win is a hard sell. To believe LaVar has either an attitudenal or performance problem? No problem!

hail2skins · #**111** 10-12-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GibbsRules!

I understand it to read that the rift is between GW and Lavar. If GW has our D playing at a high level without Lavar, how can Coach Gibbs override GWs authority to tweak something that doesn't need tweaking? Sure, Gibbs has the power to overrule anything he wants, but in this case would it not seem like he is micromanaging one of the better Defensive Coordinators in the League? What kind of message would that send to the other Redskin coaches and most notably GW, who quite possibly will be Gibbs' successor?

I hope it's not personal feelings that are the issue here and just Lavars work ethic in practice. That is something that can be easily overcome by Lavar himself.

Well, we read it differently. I was basically responding this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhugg

Joe Gibbs is no fool. He knows just what is happening with his team. He has given Williams total autonomy on that side of the ball, and he will not take back control from him. Joe Gibbs knows that LaVar should be on the field, but he must defend his assistant coach. But take this for what it's worth, if this situation is not rectified shortly, it will go a long way into deciding whether Gregg Williams will be our next head coach. LaVar should be playing.

That makes it sound like Gibbs doesn't agree with GW but has to support him because he gave him the control.

The Iceman · #**112** 10-12-2005, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rskinsfan10

I've read and heard alot of people say "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" in regards to LaVar and the defense, with the insinuatioin being that there is no need to play LaVar because the defense is ranked where it is.

I contend that there is something "broke that needs fixing", and that is the lack of pressure/sacks and turnovers. We are not applying as much pressure as we did last year, point blank. Since many of you contend that LaVar wouldn't help/isn't needed as far as these deficiencies (sp?) are concerned, then I would like to hear/read some solutions that you may have for the team to improve in these areas.

I'm looking for serious commentary.

If you want the real answer, then you need look no further than the secondary. Once it gets healthy, and we have Springs and Harris starting, we'll put Rogers in as the Nickelback and be able to bring Bowen, or other SS's up to the line and blitz like crazy. This will enable us to have the personnel to leave the DB's on an Island and have Sean Taylor patrolling the middle of the field in hopes of getting picks, or taking someone head off!!!!! I think with our front four running in, and bringin one or two linebackers, or safeties, we will be able to really put some pressure on the QB without compromising our coverage. IMHO

KMDeMuth · #**113** 10-13-2005, 04:39 AM

My take on it.....

GW's system relys on the "shut down corner" (doesnt really exist anymore). We need strong and consistant play at corner for everything else to work. Shut down (and shut up) the WR's and let the GW's do his thing. Harris has been hurt so we had our #1 corner and rookie playing. Everyone knows rookies makes mistakes, dont you think GW's knows this? He is giving Rogers time to adjust and learn. Springs gets hurt, we are left with 2 CB's. A rookie and Jimoh (who is basicly a special teamer and emergency relief, i'll leave it at that). With so much emphasis on the CB's, GW's is limited right now.(Until Harris and now springs are back.) Give GW's time to gain trust in his rookie CB and allow him to cover 1 with a #2 reciever. We only have 4 CB's on the roster for a reason (besides needing the space), Prioleau can also play CB. He was signed mainly for special teams...and emergency CB. He is also a good SS and can play when needed. A good % of the blitzing last year was done from the backfield (corners and safties). We have continual injuries in the backfield this year (harris, springs, bowen, clark...). Notice our safties (more then usual) assisting in pass coverage? Its to cover our weaker/less experienced corners.

Where is the blitz? Covering for CB injuries and a rookie. Get our veterans back and the rookie more gradual experience (less mistakes) and we will open up the blitz. GW's system is focused on "discipline" (no mistakes). He uses every part of the defense to make the weakest part of the defense a strong part of the defense. Look where we rank for passing yards allowed compared to the run. This also explains why Arrington isnt playing....

Last year where did we have all the injuries? up front, we had solid CB/saftey play. So what did GW's do? He blitzed like a mad man from the backfield. Our D-line was more productive last year because of the blitz from the backfield. This year we are fairly consistant. So the help is going to the backfield where we are needing help every week. We really arent working about our D-line now are we? We really arent worrying about Washington now are we? Pierce is gone, we dont have consistant play at MLB. Pierce did have experience at MLB (not pro). So he picked up on it quickly, he knew the basics form when he was younger. Marshal has never played the position and is showing a slow learning curve (not bad, just slow, which is expected). So why is Holdman playing? He is consistant and its just not that easy. Holdman plays where and how he is told ALLWAYS. So what does he have that Arrington doesnt? He is there to help Lemar Marshal. Marshal makes a mistake he has help from Holdman who is in position and able to cover. Holdman is GW's security blanket for Marshal. Arrington is BY FAR the better athlete and LB. BUT, he is not a better security blanket. He IS a playmaker, maybe he doesnt make mistakes like ppl says he does. But, he cant cover Marshals learning curve.

Arrington also had his issues with injury, 2 times. Who did he blame the 2nd time? The coaching staff! So he is healthy now, like he was last time? One thing both GW's AND Gibb's do NOT like at all is criticism, especially from their players. Trust them and shut up, thats what they want. So last time it was the coaches fault? I am sure he cant say it if it happens again now can he? The coaching staff is making a point and they can afford to make this point while our secondary is hurting.

When will LA play? When will our starters in the backfield play? Notice as soon as Springs went down and we had both our starters at CB out LA didnt see the field?

GW's uses the defense in parts. We will see a GW's system with blitzing when we have our secondary healthy and Marshal is either comfortable or not playing. Lavar is learning a lesson, the team isnt hurting. Arrington is isnt going anywhere he makes too much money. If anything he will be used in rotation at LB and DE...again...once our secondary is healthy and Marshal (or someone else) is comfortable.

I think this issue is being hugely blown out of proportion. Look at how GW's works his defense and you'll see it. He fakes the blitz and covers his weaker positions, Arrington isnt best suited for this. GW's isnt hurting the team he is doing it for a reason. Notice they say "discipline" is the reason for LA not playing? Anyone stop to think its not Arrington, but Marshal/MLB? What is he not showing in practice that he isnt geting? Maybe he isnt making Marshal do his job and look decent himself? (still wonder why Holdman only has 10 tackles?)

Lavar will play, but trust GW's!...he knows what he is doing!

my 2 cents

(sorry for the long post)

KMDeMuth · #**114** 10-13-2005, 04:41 AM

This is from another forum, i can't find the video so figured i'd post this....

Quote:

Last night on the NFL Network, on the show Playbook, Sterling Sharp and Brian Baldinger were going over the Redskins vs Broncos game. They showed film for both teams on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. When they were done, Sterling went over the question that every Skins fan is wondering; "why isn't Lavar playing?". He then showed two clips of film (from games this season) where Arrington got himself out of position and got burned badly. The first play was against the Bears. The RB took a handoff made it look like he was going off tackle left, then spinted to the outside. Lavar didn't recognize this fake and ran into the line where he got manhandled by a TE. The RB then just ran right by him. On the second play the RB got a screen pass to the left and continued to run that way without a fake. Arrington took a horrible angle and tried to rush into the backfield to make a play but then took on a block that he had trouble fighting off. The RB then just ran right by him. Lavar got off the block too late then tried to make a diving stop to no avail.

The coaches have also said more then once its a factor of him missing OTA's and pre-season and practices. It could show more when they see him then when we do....

Give him time to get back into game shape...mentally.

redwolf1218 · #**115** 10-13-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMDeMuth

This is from another forum, i can't find the video so figured i'd post this....

The coaches have also said more then once its a factor of him missing OTA's and pre-season and practices. It could show more when they see him then when we do....

Give him time to get back into game shape...mentally.

i think you're right. when they say he hasnt had enough time to show much in practice, maybe they are not just talking about yesterday or last week, but the entire offseason program when he was still recovering from injury. hopefully they can work him back into it.

Sweepea436 · #**116** 10-13-2005, 07:06 AM

I think (for me personally) it's more of an issue because for all the years of mediocrity, Lavar was one of the only reasons to get up for watching a game. I was pretty sure we'd lose.....but I wanted to see him light somebody up. Now that we have a couple W's on the board and our offense seems to have joined the NFL, my heart says he should be out there playing because he kept my spirits up through the bad times......sorta like we owe it to him.

But the more I think about it, I want to keep doing what we're doing to WIN. And if it means he doesn't have a place on the field, so be it. We had another linebacker the made big hits (for another team granted but still)...>Trotter. They both have the same strenghts/weaknesses. But nobody was sad to see Trotter go, because he never truely paid his dues like Lavar.

Skinz4lyfe · #**117** 10-13-2005, 09:14 AM

What's even more interesting is if we take into consideration how Lavar looked in preseason last year. He didn't play much but when he did he played brilliant football. What has changed so much that he "doesn't play disciplined" enough to start anymore? The schemes haven't changed that much since last year. I remember the last preseason game against the Falcons where we almost sent Vick to the hospital. Lavar was a monster!! Is he the same Lavar? Does he still have lingering effects of the knee injury? We've been told no but who can we believe anymore? IMO, Gibbs wants him on the field but he's leaving the decision up to GW and the defensive staff. Like I said before there's something in this story that doesn't add up.

Fathead · #**118** 10-13-2005, 03:44 PM

Like I said, I gotta trust gibbs at this point, and I personally feel the special teams are much more broken than the D. We need them fixed first.

dabro · #**119** 10-14-2005, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMDeMuth

My take on it.....

GW's system relys on the "shut down corner"

Excellent analysis! That's a perspective I hadn't considered before, but it makes real good sense.