Vision Quest: A Tale of Two Draft Days.... on the Blog!!!

CNYSkinFan · #1 04-20-2006, 09:16 AM

I have posted my latest VQ article on the blog. If you are excited by the amount of late round draft picks the Redskins have this year's, you might want to read about the Snyder era history on the 2nd Day of the Draft.

You can read the article by clicking the link below:

Vision Quest: A Tale of Two Draft Days

And you can comment on it if you like in this thread.

finnspidey · #2 04-20-2006, 09:33 AM

I dont the last 2 drafts as so bad for the picks that we had... I look at it more as the FA's we got for getting rid of those picks. All in all the second day wasn't that bad, its not the Patriots. Other than them who really has a good second day?

shally · #3 04-20-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

I have posted my latest VQ article on the blog. If you are excited by the amount of late round draft picks the Redskins have this year's, you might want to read about the Snyder era history on the 2nd Day of the Draft.

You can read the article by clicking the link below:

Vision Quest: A Tale of Two Draft Days

And you can comment on it if you like in this thread.

add to it these facts...

philly has 14 second day picks on their current roster
dallas has 10
the giants 7
redskins 5 (of which 3 are from last years draft)

what makes it unnerving is that gibbs success rate was not much better the first time around-- and the draft was longer.

we better get it right in free agency

Skinsfan1311 · #4 04-20-2006, 09:51 AM

A little too much doom & gloom. But that's just me. I often don't see the forest through trees, as I seldom remove my B&G shades to truly look.

I thought it was a good analysis, and my eyes have been opened, concerning our depth. My views are probably typical....I like what was done in FA, and have scratched my head about the hoopla over the resigning of Holdman. I figure Lindsey knows more than me in that dept.

I've been pretty concerned about our LB corp but, after reading your blog, I'm a little moreconcerned about our O-line.

The in-depth analysis, was an eye-opener and a good read. I learned something today..... thanks!

BTW....I got your PM and info was sent.....

Redskinfan28 · #5 04-20-2006, 09:58 AM

I agree with the essense of your article - we pick good when we pick high (the risk should be low in getting a bad player when you pick in the top 5) but we do not seem to scout very well to find late round gems. I have have two comments:

1. I think Rounds 1-3 happen on the first day and Rounds 4-7 happen on the second day. Therefore, Cooley and Dockery were first day picks.

2. I don't know how Jason Campbell can be considered a "Contributing Player." Although a first round pick, he did not play at all last year and may turn out to be a complete bust. McCune actually contributed more to the team last year.

redwolf1218 · #6 04-20-2006, 10:04 AM

i have always been bothered by the players taken around the same time as some of our picks, meaning, the players we could have taken instead of guys like Taylor Jacobs, Rod Gardner, Kenard Lang, Ladell Betts, etc. It's funny how some of those same players we did not draft ended up on our team anyway, like Portis, Moss, Archuletta, etc.

CNYSkinFan · #7 04-20-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskinfan28

I agree with the essense of your article - we pick good when we pick high (the risk should be low in getting a bad player when you pick in the top 5) but we do not seem to scout very well to find late round gems. I have have two comments:

1. I think Rounds 1-3 happen on the first day and Rounds 4-7 happen on the second day. Therefore, Cooley and Dockery were first day picks.

2. I don't know how Jason Campbell can be considered a "Contributing Player." Although a first round pick, he did not play at all last year and may turn out to be a complete bust. McCune actually contributed more to the team last year.

Ok I was almost SURE that rounds 1-2 were on the first day and 3-7 on the second day but I am wrong. At least this year I am wrong.

Funny thing is my original assumption when I started writing the article was a drop in draft selections after round 3 but I wanted to break it into the day to day breakdown and begrudgingly moved my 3rd round picks into the 2nd day picks.

This would mean 4 out of 22 picks on the second days have contributed to the team in a meaningful way. Pretty sad huh?

redwolf1218 · #8 04-20-2006, 10:23 AM

great article, thanks for taking the time to research it.

this tells me we have to either draft better, or trade away those late picks and move up for guys like Cooley.

and you are right, we better do something about the o-line.

CNYSkinFan · #9 04-20-2006, 10:33 AM

I have edited the article to reflect the fact that the third round is on the first day of the draft. As I said above it was my original idea anyway and somehow as I was writing the article I talked myself into the idea that the first two rounds were on the first day.

That being said here are the new breakdowns on my "Contributing Selection" criteria.

First Day Picks (1-3) in Snyder Era: 14 picks 11 Contributing players

Second Day Picks (4-7) in Snyder Era: 22 Picks 4 Contributing Players

And of those 4 contributors are guys like D-Mac and Andre Lott. Once again let me stress I do not think that we should have a 100% success rate in the second day. I would be happy with 50% of our second day picks contributing to the team in a reasonable way (Depth or role players). But they don't ever seem to work out.

With 5 picks on the second day and lots of need for depth the Redskins better do better this year.

redwolf1218 · #10 04-20-2006, 10:39 AM

we have probably had just as many contributing players that were not drafted at all, which tells me there's not much difference between taking a player on the second day, and just inviting a bunch of guys to camp from after the draft. that, in turn, tells me to package those late picks and move up to get someone good.

shally · #11 04-20-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwolf1218

we have probably had just as many contributing players that were not drafted at all, which tells me there's not much difference between taking a player on the second day, and just inviting a bunch of guys to camp from after the draft. that, in turn, tells me to package those late picks and move up to get someone good.

that is exactly how i feel.. fewer picks, more first day picks, lots of post draft free agents...

redskin_rich · #12 04-20-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shally

that is exactly how i feel.. fewer picks, more first day picks, lots of post draft free agents...

The problem is that those last 5 picks we have don't even equal 1 early 5th rounder, on the value chart. We would have to throw in a first day pick from next year or a player, to move up.

CNYSkinFan · #13 04-20-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

The problem is that those last 5 picks we have don't even equal 1 early 5th rounder, on the value chart. We would have to throw in a first day pick from next year or a player, to move up.

And the NFL is not Madden...you can't just package a whole bunch of picks and shop em around to get the highest pick you can.

That and we have 5 positions that can use depth in the draft to flush them out. In order of Importance are: Linebacker (specifically outside), Safety, Tight End, Corner, Offensive Line. Perhaps Corner and Safety can be a combo player and perhaps we go with the guys on the O-line we got...but I don't want to trade too much next year for this year.

That means picking smart on the 2nd Day.

Redblood · #14 04-20-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinsfan1311

A little too much doom & gloom. But that's just me. I often don't see the forest through trees, as I seldom remove my B&G shades to truly look.

This I agree with. The rest, you notice I threw away.

I consider it One (1) NFL Draft over two days. Not two different drafts.

If we were to start the season today, I'm sure HOF Coach Gibbs already has his team roster set, and his depth chart as well. The draft is slightly overhyped, but we love it! So, bottom line, the Draftees fill in here and there. If you can come up with enough replacement parts to fill in where retirements and FA left for greener pastures, and hope your FA signees fill in ok, then the Draft is icing on the cake, and gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Some folks peel icing off before eating cake, other folks always refuse the gravy because of the fat content.

The Blog could have mentioned the success in FA, the past successes in FA, and Last year's record because of the FA pick-ups and the fewer starting Draft picks. In other words, the Blog was a little too confining for me.

I've taken to not watching the Draft so hard anymore. I'll look at a Mock or three, and compare what we pick up to where they fall on a seven round Mock, and hope our HOF Coach and outstanding Play-off-record-setting-top-ranked Defensive & Offensive Coordinators can "coach-em-up"! No, I've got my B&G glasses firmly on, and in-place. I need them. I can't even read my Large print Bible anymore without my glasses!

CNYSkinFan · #15 04-20-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redblood

This I agree with. The rest, you notice I threw away.

I consider it One (1) NFL Draft over two days. Not two different drafts.

If we were to start the season today, I'm sure HOF Coach Gibbs already has his team roster set, and his depth chart as well. The draft is slightly overhyped, but we love it! So, bottom line, the Draftees fill in here and there. If you can come up with enough replacement parts to fill in where retirements and FA left for greener pastures, and hope your FA signees fill in ok, then the Draft is icing on the cake, and gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Some folks peel icing off before eating cake, other folks always refuse the gravy because of the fat content.

The Blog could have mentioned the success in FA, the past successes in FA, and Last year's record because of the FA pick-ups and the fewer starting Draft picks. In other words, the Blog was a little too confining for me.

I've taken to not watching the Draft so hard anymore. I'll look at a Mock or three, and compare what we pick up to where they fall on a seven round Mock, and hope our HOF Coach and outstanding Play-off-record-setting-top-ranked Defensive & Offensive Coordinators can "coach-em-up"! No, I've got my B&G glasses firmly on, and in-place. I need them. I can't even read my Large print Bible anymore without my glasses!

I didn't talk about FA because I was focusing on the draft, since FA is over and the draft is on the way.

We have had successes in Free Agency, espescially FA under Gubbs versus before Gibbs. However Free Agency does not build depth. Not with the Salary cap in place. Free Agency is used mainly to fill holes and upgrade starting positions. A few vet minimum signings happen but most of those players enter free agency looking to start somewhere to earn a big payday or are no good to begin with.

Looking over the last 3 or 4 years I can't see many free agent signings that provided adequate depth when called upon. Ray Brown certainly was one, but not many others.