If we want to fight the war on terror.

[flave1969]

The "Thank you Spain" thread posted by Yudolindo has led me to do a lot of reading over the past few days. I have read many articles on the events in Spain and I find myself in a neutral position on the subject of appeasement. I can see why Yudolindo feels Spain has capitulated to the Al Qaeda terrorists, but also believe that although it most certainly affected the thinking in peoples minds. The Aznar government acted in a grossly insensitive matter, a fact that they themselves realised on the day before the election, they were unable to turn the tide they had swelled and lost the election.

However I digress. My main reason for the thread was that one constant came out in all that I have read last week. If we as a united front against terror are going to defeat it. We have got to start concentrating on the Israel-Palestinian conflict. It seems too me that it is one of the main recruiting tools for the fundamentalists all over the world. These maniacs certainly view the US as a protector of Israel, and by assosciation make them a target. That's not the only reason but it is a major one.

Israel more than any other country suffers on a seemingly regular basis from terror attacks but their retaliation with force seems only to bring more terror, it is indeed a viscious cycle.

This morning thay assasinated the spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. The Israelis that will die as a result in retaliation I am sure will be many. It is disturbing too me in particular because this is a man that the Israelis had jailed for life in 1989 with the blessing of moderate Palestinians and Yasser Arafat. He was released as a goodwill gesture to King Hussein of Jordan, after a botched assassination attempt on Hamas leader Khaled Mashal in Jordan in 1997. Hussein quite rightly took a dim view of a foreign nation trying to assassinate someone on his soil.

I know people like Bin Laden will stop at nothing and must be fought tooth and nail, but if the U.S and Europe were at the centre of bringing a lasting peace to Israel and Palestine would it not go some way to drying up the stream of matyrs ready to die in the name of Islam?

What we are looking at is indeed some kind of appeasement on both sides. It would be very difficult to achieve. Do you think it would help in the war on terror?

I am really interested in your views.

[lakewinola]

A solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict would absolutely go a far far way in the battle against terrorism. In fact, this cause is more important to peace than the invasion and occupation of Iraq. With Iraq, we have incited more moderates in the arab world and have drivin them to the radicals than any single event.

[Ford]

There's no easy solution to isreal/palestine .. it's all very deep rooted. We need a new president to work towards it, because if blowing it up doesn't fix it .. George Bush is in a bit of a predicament.

[RedskinsDave]

I don't recall it being so peaceful during Klinton's 8 years. Come on, those people will always hate each other no matter what we do. I'd prefer to just cut off Israel but that'll never happen.

[Keino]

Oh My. Someone check my temperature and make sure Im feeling ok, because I am about to agree with Dave. A sure sign that the world is coming to an end.....

[Yudolindo]

Let me start by saying that the assassination of Sheik Yassin pushes the boundary of human stupidity to levels I never thought possible. With that said, solving the Palestine question would bring a new era to the Middle East and take away the biggest propaganda tool of terrorists all over the world. To me, the conflict is a tragedy beyond words. Jews and Muslims got along for millennia but both now kill each other as a result of Europe’s imperial and anti-Semitic madness. They are both victims, which makes deciding right in this situation so difficult. Bush, Clinton, and W. Bush all have failed to resolve the situation, but in fairness, America did not make the mess; it bewilders me that Europe often criticizes the United States for it’s inadequate handling of the matter yet Europe, whose imperial legacy left the region carved into artificial states and whose centuries of bigotry and murder created the need for a Jewish state, lift not a finger accept to call America to bitch. Unfortunately for all of us, this issue will not be settled soon.

You are indeed correct in your assertion. Take away the question of Palestine, and people will have hope. People who have hope are less inclined to blow themselves up. Removing the Palestine issue takes away the biggest selling point to terrorist recruiters. This should have been done years ago, not to mention before an invasion of Iraq.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Yudolindo
Let me start by saying that the assassination of Sheik Yassin pushes the boundary of human stupidity to levels I never thought possible. With that said, solving the Palestine question would bring a new era to the Middle East and take away the biggest propaganda tool of terrorists all over the world. To me, the conflict is a tragedy beyond words. Jews and Muslims got along for millennia but both now kill each other as a result of Europe’s imperial and anti-Semitic madness. They are both victims, which makes deciding right in this situation so difficult. Bush, Clinton, and W. Bush all have failed to resolve the situation, but in fairness, America did not make the mess; it bewilders me that Europe often criticizes the United States for it’s inadequate handling of the matter yet Europe, whose imperial legacy left the region carved into artificial states and whose centuries of bigotry and murder created the need for a Jewish state, lift not a finger accept to call America to bitch. Unfortunately for all of us, this issue will not be settled soon.

You are indeed correct in your assertion. Take away the question of Palestine, and people will have hope. People who have hope are less inclined to blow themselves up. Removing the Palestine issue takes away the biggest selling point to terrorist recruiters. This should have been done years ago, not to mention before an invasion of Iraq.

I doubted it would happen, but I agree with you on this point.

Really the blame for this mess could be placed on Germany for the persecution of the Jews, Britain or the UN for the way they handled the issue of Israel after WWII.

While a resolution to this conflict wouldn't eliminate the terrorist threat it would weaken their recruitment tools and severely weaken their argument that there is a need for Jihad against America.

The problem is it would probably be easier to just kill off the whole middle east than find a peaceful solution to this issue. .

I don't recall it being so peaceful during Klinton's 8 years. Come on, those people will always hate each other no matter what we do. I'd prefer to just cut off Israel but that'll never happen.

I also wish we could cut off Israel and I also realize the futility of trying to do that.

However I think the main difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton at least tried to present an image of impartiality while the Bush admin always seems to ignore any stupid actions taken by the Israelis.

For example when he asked the Israelis to move out of Palestinian territory a while ago, and then didn't do anything when Sharon refused.

[BigCountry]

Not that I'm a Bush fan, bit I have to say it's more of the fact that Clinton was able to work with Prime Ministers Rabin and Peres, and Bush has to work with a guy that makes him look like the greatest leader ever, then Clinton really doing anything special.

[flave1969]

Europe does indeed have a lot to answer for not just in the middle east, but the world over. Suffering at the hands of Europeans is a legacy many countries in Africa, the Middle East and so on have to deal with.

However it would seem the vitriol within the Jewish and Arab nations seems too go back further than I thought. Both the Jews and Arabs lay a claim to this land that pre-dates any influence from the Ottoman empire, the British and so on.

This link is for an Israeli website. It shows the scale of the problem Europe and America face in the region, simply by the language it uses. To the Author of the website, Palestine and the Palestinians seem too be a myth, a made up nation. It is reminiscent of the langauge I have heard used about Israel from Arab nations.

Here are the links.
www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz
www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/meaning.html

[flave1969]

Looking a bit more into the website I linked above. There is some far more balanced writing within the site.

It does illustrate how great a divide their is too be bridged.

[flave1969]

Originally posted by Yudolindo
Bush, Clinton, and W. Bush all have failed to resolve the situation, but in fairness, America did not make the mess; it bewilders me that Europe often criticizes the United States for it’s inadequate handling of the matter yet Europe, whose imperial legacy left the region carved into artificial states and whose centuries of bigotry and murder created the need for a Jewish state, lift not a finger accept to call America to bitch. Unfortunately for all of us, this issue will not be settled soon.

America did not create the mess that is happening now. It is and has been a powerful player in the middle east. They played a big part in peace between Israel and Egypt, as well as between Jordan and Israel along with the British. I think most of the criticism seems to come from an unwillingness to bring real pressure to bare upon Sharon, but quite what the US can do is not apparent too me. My only criticism is that Bush has been more intent on other battles, when I think we all agree if we as a world and I mean world tackle the Palestine issue, the war on terror would be not easier but more defined.

You are indeed correct in your assertion. Take away the question of Palestine, and people will have hope. People who have hope are less inclined to blow themselves up. Removing the Palestine issue takes away the biggest selling point to terrorist recruiters. This should have been done years ago, not to mention before an invasion of Iraq. [/quote]

I think it is long overdue, but the U.N should be far more involved in this issue then it has been.

Really the blame for this mess could be placed on Germany for the persecution of the Jews.

Not only Germany, Jews were persecuted every where they set foot in.

[flave1969]

Originally posted by DC_Cowboys
[i]Not only Germany, Jews were persecuted every where they set foot in.

It seems it has been this way for millenia.

[Spence]

Solving the Israel/Palestine conflict would help, but would certainly not solve our problem. Al Qaeda has little to do with Palestine and its leaders do not care much about it. Sure, they'd like Israel annihilated and so forth, but they regard Israel as little more than a crusader [American] outpost in the Middle East. We can cut off our support for Arab dictatorships and theocracies. Indeed, we should do that. It would help some, but in the end there are just some people we cannot compromise with and my opinion is that many of those people are in Al Qaeda. I just think the war between the U.S. and Al Qaeda is one for survival. It's a battle between our civilization and their lack of one. I won't be satisfied until every single member of Al Qaeda is rotting in prison or rotting in hell.

I won't be satisfied until every single member of Al Qaeda is rotting in prison or rotting in hell.

Well, I don't mind them all in heaven having orgies with 72 virgins.