Schiavo post-mortem

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by fentonator

Dustin, while the religious right might have been the driving force behind this, i can pull the votes out on this matter to show you that it was truly a bi-partisan clusterSPENCE. put down the hate for a moment and realize that this was EVERYBODY'S screwup.

I am sorry Fent, while I do not blame you personally for this as you were never on this board actually supporting this move, this was purely a GOP blunder.

The florida house and Senate, the florida Governor, the US House and Senate, and the Whitehouse, all controlled if not dominated by the GOP all overstepped their bounds here. They did so to appease the religious right which is the bread and butter of the GOP donor base and voting base.

Were there a couple of weak and cowardly democrats who went along with this? Of course. However the driving momentum came directly from the GOP and one of the main leaders was Tom Delay who was very vocal before and after.

THey should all be ashamed of themselves and admit their failure. But they won't. I wonder if any of the talk radio clowns that talked about the Democrats wanting death will run stories how Schiavo was blond and could not respond to visual stimuli. I wonder if they will apologize to Michael Schiavoo for all the names they called him. I wonder if they will now see that Terri's parents were desperate people who lost touch on reality and the GOP and far right enabled them.

You know what I don't wonder. I know they won't.

[dukeuch]

Originally Posted by Spence

Many, many people owe Michael Schiavo a big shamefaced apology. He'll never receive it. The shameless apologize for nothing.

I would never expect those who should to apologize. It is not their way. None that I know of have even gone so far as to say, "I was well meaning so I don't need to apologize, but it turns out the autopsy proves me wrong". In my opinion, there were plenty who knew she had no chance at recovery, but happily beat the drum becuase they got political capital out of doing so. They cared not a bit about whether she lived or died, only how they could benefit form the situation. As I've said before, what turds.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

I am sorry Fent, while I do not blame you personally for this as you were never on this board actually supporting this move, this was purely a GOP blunder.

and I think most analaysts and even GOP pollsters, woudl agree with that. That is precisely why Frist yesterday said tha the autopsy officially closes the case and issue. That is becaus ethey want it closed. It was a battle bvased on what was perceived as an emotional win win for the GOP that turned into a public relations nightmare.

[Spence]

ClusterSPENCE?? I don't know if I should be flattered or appalled.

[BurgundyNGold]

Originally Posted by Spence

ClusterSPENCE?? I don't know if I should be flattered or appalled.

Yeah, that's a new one. Personally, I use the tried and true ***CENSORED BY SPENCE***, but I am also a big fan of *** SPENCORED ***.

[thickskin]

Originally Posted by Spence

Source

So, she was blind. How pathetic is this then?:Source

Thanks for the diagnosis, "Doctor" Frist.

just to clarify, not to defend this ideological weakling, if blindness is the result of brain injury rather than retinal or optic nerve injury, it's very possible to respond to visual stimulation.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by thickskin

just to clarify, not to defend this ideological weakling, if blindness is the result of brain injury rather than retinal or optic nerve injury, it's very possible to respond to visual stimulation.

How is that possible. I am curious not attacking. If one can not see how can one respond to visual stimuli?

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

How is that possible. I am curious not attacking. If one can not see how can one respond to visual stimuli?

Maybe just the eyes can respond because they still work but the signal doesn't reach the brain. Just my guess.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

Maybe just the eyes can respond because they still work but the signal doesn't reach the brain. Just my guess.

But the eye is a part of the nervous system. To responsd to visual stimuli wouldn't it need the brain to actually interpret the dat and react. Otherwise it would be an involuntary response.

Man I still get mad about this months later. I feel myself tightening up just talkign about it. I think Michael Schiavo is a modern day tragic hero and someday someone will tell his story with the right sympathy and truth needed.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

Maybe just the eyes can respond because they still work but the signal doesn't reach the brain. Just my guess.

like a reflex

[Ibleedburgundy]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

But the eye is a part of the nervous system. To responsd to visual stimuli wouldn't it need the brain to actually interpret the dat and react. Otherwise it would be an involuntary response.

Man I still get mad about this months later. I feel myself tightening up just talkign about it. I think Michael Schiavo is a modern day tragic hero and someday someone will tell his story with the right sympathy and truth needed.

calm down................think redskins................week two.........Lavar welcomes Drew Bledsoe to the NFC East with 2 sacks. Redskins 21 Cowboys 0

[thickskin]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

How is that possible. I am curious not attacking. If one can not see how can one respond to visual stimuli?

the pathway goes through the thalamus on its way to the visual cortex at the back of your head. a fraction of the signal gets processed at this early 'checkpoint.' this is so-called 'quick and dirty' vision, the evolutionary purpose of which is to allow you to respond quickly to possible threats. people who are blind bc of cortical damage might still have this sub-cortical pathway. it's called blindsight.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by thickskin

the pathway goes through the thalamus on its way to the visual cortex at the back of your head. a fraction of the signal gets processed at this early 'checkpoint.' this is so-called 'quick and dirty' vision, the evolutionary purpose of which is to allow you to respond quickly to possible threats. people who are blind bc of cortical damage might still have this sub-cortical pathway. it's called blindsight.

Thanks I learned something. So would that be classified as a reflex reaction rather then a response? Schiavo could still be brain dead and have this type of response to the stimuli? Correct?

[Spence]

Somewhere in Tennessee there are former patients of Bill Frist, who was a practicing physician before he entered the U.S. Senate.

If Frist issued them a clean bill of health, we implore them to get a second opinion. This is especially important if he examined them by watching them on TV.

Frist was the leader of the pack that turned the private ordeal of Terri Schiavo's death into a national circus aimed at reinserting her feeding tube.

The Senate majority leader issued this diagnosis from Capitol Hill after watching televised video of Schiavo: "That footage, to me, depicted something very different than persistent vegetative state."

Schiavo's autopsy says exactly the opposite -- that her condition was entirely consistent with what doctors expect to find in a patient in a persistent vegetative state.

Frist wasn't the only one misdiagnosing Schiavo. U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay, an exterminator before going to Congress, said, "she talks and laughs, and she expresses happiness and discomfort. Terri Schiavo is not on life support."

According to the autopsy, Schiavo's brain had shrunk by roughly half. She was blind, unaware of her surroundings and unable to consume food if not through a tube. In other words, she was incapable of responses such as laughter or speech, and was on life support.

DeLay, Frist, President Bush and the rest who exploited Schiavo's death ought to be embarrassed and humbled. They politicized a family's private ordeal and tried to play God by pretending their own self-righteousness could save Schiavo.

Those exploiters put doctors in the crosshairs of a family fight, then impugned those physicians with bogus second opinions. Their operatives went on TV to proclaim that judges who allowed the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube did so because they wanted her dead.

They dragged Schiavo's husband through the mud, accusing him of abusing his wife and perhaps even accelerating her death. The autopsy proves neither of those things happened.

This stunt contributed to the low public approval of Congress, but the autopsy is another blow to those who thought they could use a dying woman to score a few political points.

They were wrong about Schiavo's condition. We hope the public remembers that during the next holier-than-thou charade.

Source: Lexington Herald-Leader

[Spence]

In the wake of the Terri Schiavo autopsy results, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) has come under renewed fire for past statements that questioned her doctors' dire assessment of her medical condition, based on his own review of a videotape.

Frist, a surgeon and potential presidential candidate in 2008, on Thursday denied that he had contradicted doctors who had said the brain-damaged Florida woman was in a persistent vegetative state before her feeding tube was removed March 18. She died March 31.

"I never made the diagnosis," Frist said to reporters Thursday. "I wouldn't even attempt to make a diagnosis based on a videotape."

But Democratic political operatives circulated transcripts of Frist's statements in March that clearly questioned the doctors' diagnosis after he had watched the video footage of Schiavo.

"That footage, to me, depicted something very different than persistent vegetative state," Frist said March 17 on the Senate floor.

Frist made the comments in March as he and other GOP leaders pushed Congress to approve a bill that aimed, in vain, to prolong Schiavo's life by allowing federal courts to review her parents' request that her feeding tube be reattached. President Bush signed the bill into law March 21.

Frist's statements during debate on that bill drew criticism from medical professionals at the time, and he and his staff previously have insisted his remarks did not represent a diagnosis.

But his comments came under fresh scrutiny after the autopsy results released Wednesday showed she had massive and irreversible brain damage that the medical examiner said was consistent with a persistent vegetative state.

The additional finding that she was blind and oblivious to what was happening around her was at odds with Frist's comment in his March 17 remarks in the Senate that "she certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli."

But queried about that comment in an interview Thursday on NBC's "Today" show, Frist insisted, "I never said she responded."

The Schiavo matter could prove troublesome to Frist in a presidential campaign if opponents use it to raise questions about his credibility.

"It is never good when you say you didn't do something when you are on camera doing it," said Tony Fabrizio, a Republican political strategist.

Frist's adversaries, Fabrizio predicted, "will use it time and time again."

Source