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  #46  
Old 03-23-2006, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus
Its funny, you are trying to make a racial issue of this and you use an ethnic slur yourself.
i think that's supposed to be like and he mistyped.
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  #47  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SpicyMcHaggis
If that happens the team picking after us will have a shot at him too...
according to ESPN, we were the only team that didn't send a scout so apparently we have absolutely zero interest in him.
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  #48  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:15 AM
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Without using hindsight, which is hard to do, who would have been the number one QB taken between Young, Alex Smith, and Aaron Rodgers? To me I would have picked Young. In last years QB class we would not have even had this discussion. Young would have been the #1 QB period. The fact is that Leinart is in the mold of Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning and is a once in every 5-6 years type of guy coming out. Young is very talented but when compared to Leinart it is unfair. They are different and I really think they will both be successful on the next level. Leinart may be ready to take over a team sooner because he is more polished and has more experience.
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  #49  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
Without using hindsight, which is hard to do, who would have been the number one QB taken between Young, Alex Smith, and Aaron Rodgers? To me I would have picked Young. In last years QB class we would not have even had this discussion. Young would have been the #1 QB period.
I don't think that would be true. Young didn't look that good playing in the pro style attack in 2004 and he was still being touting headed into 2005 as great potential, but never put it together. He would be the same prospect he is today, only without the gaudy stats and national championship. He'd probably be compared to someone like how Omar Jacobs is seen going into this draft. Smith still looked pretty good-although in a gimmick offense-and I think he would still be the first QB taken.

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Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
The fact is that Leinart is in the mold of Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning and is a once in every 5-6 years type of guy coming out. Young is very talented but when compared to Leinart it is unfair. They are different and I really think they will both be successful on the next level. Leinart may be ready to take over a team sooner because he is more polished and has more experience.
And he's proven that he can run a pro style offense and play like a pro style Qb. Young has a ton of upside, but he's extremely raw as a prospect. What makes him a major bust in my eyes is that he has this question mark along with a total lack of maturity and believes that he deserves everything. Keep in mind, he was FURIOUS that Reggie Bush won the Heisman over him because he thought he deserved it. And all the reports about him as a person is that he doesn't believe he has to work hard to make in the NFL because he's this great talent.
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  #50  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus
If Leinart had won the championship, he'd still be the same prospect that he is now. Young would still be the same prospect that he is now. Winning or losing the title doesn't change what Young is and is not.

Everyone would be on the Lienart hype that's what I'm saying.....


And no one's doing that for Vince? Gil Brandt and Mack Brown are best friends and Brandt is the only one raving about Young? Hmm..



Its funny, you are trying to make a racial issue of this and you use an ethnic slur yourself.

Where did I make a racial slur?.....Tell me where
Every QB can get the ball to the recievers. Hell, I can get the ball to a reciever, that doesn't mean I should be drafted high, does it? There are major questions mark on Young.

I'm sure there...as you tell it...

What? McNabb's game has dwindled because people are questioning him since he's a certain race? His game dwindled because he missed the season and had a major groin injury. You need to get a grip on reality.
I feel that the mcnabb allowed the media to change his qb image...when he ran, everyone said that he needed to stay inthe pocket...if the chains are moving, who cares.....no one cried when Steve Young was doing it...
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  #51  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus
Fent's comment has nothing to do with Cutler and only has to do with Young. Funny that you avoided all debate about that.
first of all what I am saying is that Mayok...is putting alot and all of his stock in Cutler....when he did nothing...but of Lienart had won the Championship....we wouldn't be aving this conversation because Lineart would be the favorite...based on him winning the game...
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  #52  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
first of all what I am saying is that Mayok...is putting alot and all of his stock in Cutler....when he did nothing...but of Lienart had won the Championship....we wouldn't be aving this conversation because Lineart would be the favorite...based on him winning the game...
If Leinart had won the championship, Young would have stayed in school for at least one more year.
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  #53  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
I fell that the mcnabb allowed the media to change his qb image...when he ran, everyone said that he needed to stay inthe pocket.
And you honestly believe that Andy Reid had nothing to do with this decision? And since he stopped being a running Qb and was a drop back Qb who could scramble, they've won 4 NFC East titles, made 4 NFC Championship games and one super bowl. I think the results prove that it was the right decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
..if the chains are moving, who cares.
No running QB has had major success in the NFL. My last sentence answers this question. The Eagles didn't really succeed until he stopped running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
....no one cried when Steve Young was doing it...
Steve Young only ran the ball 722 times in 15 seasons as opposed to 4000+ passing attempts. He had only 2 seasons where he ran the ball more than 70 times. He was a Quarterback first who might occasionally run the ball.
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  #54  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus
I don't think that would be true. Young didn't look that good playing in the pro style attack in 2004 and he was still being touting headed into 2005 as great potential, but never put it together. He would be the same prospect he is today, only without the gaudy stats and national championship. He'd probably be compared to someone like how Omar Jacobs is seen going into this draft. Smith still looked pretty good-although in a gimmick offense-and I think he would still be the first QB taken.
Well maybe not vince youngs sophomore year but if they both came out at vinces level now and alex and aarons level when they came out then I feel like vince would have been number one. IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus
And he's proven that he can run a pro style offense and play like a pro style Qb. Young has a ton of upside, but he's extremely raw as a prospect. What makes him a major bust in my eyes is that he has this question mark along with a total lack of maturity and believes that he deserves everything. Keep in mind, he was FURIOUS that Reggie Bush won the Heisman over him because he thought he deserved it. And all the reports about him as a person is that he doesn't believe he has to work hard to make in the NFL because he's this great talent.

I dont know why but I like that vince got upset about not winning the Heisman. He cared. He really wanted it.

Young does have a ton of upside and he will go high in the draft. If he gets on a team that can nuture him then who knows how good he could be. I really like everything that I have seen and I am on the Vince Young Bandwagon.
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  #55  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan
If Leinart had won the championship, Young would have stayed in school for at least one more year.
Maybe so..we don't know...but if Lienart had won that game everyone knows....The entire media world would be on him be the top QB but now that Vince did his thing and decided to come out....now all of a sudden people have issues with him.....He was the world's greatest qb when he won the game,,,but now everything has taken a turn...hmmm I wonder why....
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  #56  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
first of all what I am saying is that Mayok...is putting alot and all of his stock in Cutler....when he did nothing.
Cutler had a very good season despite being a crap team. And then he's been having great workouts, combine and pro days. He is a proto-typical Qb. Young is not. And you're kidding yourself if you think no one is hyping Young because of connections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
but of Lienart had won the Championship....we wouldn't be aving this conversation because Lineart would be the favorite...based on him winning the game...
Leinart is the favorite even though he didn't win the game. Whether he won or not(or whether any players wins a championship or not) doesn't matter.
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  #57  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethefan
Maybe so..we don't know...but if Lienart had won that game everyone knows....The entire media world would be on him be the top QB but now that Vince did his thing and decided to come out....now all of a sudden people have issues with him.....He was the world's greatest qb when he won the game,,,but now everything has taken a turn...hmmm I wonder why....
Joe, you've said it before, so I'm going to ask you if you still believe it. Do you think the criticism of Young is because of his race?

And Young wasn't the "world's Greatest Qb" when he won the Rose Bowl. I don't know where you get that impression.
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  #58  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
Well maybe not vince youngs sophomore year but if they both came out at vinces level now and alex and aarons level when they came out then I feel like vince would have been number one. IMO.
Its a total counter factual. Why don't we throw in Leinart, since he was considering leaving for the 2004 draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
I dont know why but I like that vince got upset about not winning the Heisman. He cared. He really wanted it.
Its one thing to get upset about it, its another to think that you "deserved" it. One is drive, one is immaturity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
Young does have a ton of upside and he will go high in the draft. If he gets on a team that can nuture him then who knows how good he could be. I really like everything that I have seen and I am on the Vince Young Bandwagon.
This is the problem. He believes he doesn't have to learn or work to succeed in the NFL, according to the whispers, so I don't think he's going to handle being benched for a season or two to "learn". He's going to whine.
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  #59  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsASchamps
Well maybe not vince youngs sophomore year but if they both came out at vinces level now and alex and aarons level when they came out then I feel like vince would have been number one. IMO.
you can't put that stipulation in without completely nullifying your analogy. if you want to compare him to last year's draftees and whether he'd have been the best, you can't include stats accrued after the date of the draft.
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  #60  
Old 03-23-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus
Joe, you've said it before, so I'm going to ask you if you still believe it. Do you think the criticism of Young is because of his race?

And Young wasn't the "world's Greatest Qb" when he won the Rose Bowl. I don't know where you get that impression.
I have said it before but not in this thread....Never said that he's the greatest Qb....but since you bring it up, it has not been a great year for Black QB's in the league, Vick, Mcnabb, Brooks...I'm just afraid that that steryotype will be placed on Vince Young.

Now having said that, that wasn't the basis of my original comment. I just feel that the love should be spread around a little more that's all.

And yes I do think it's because of race...I'm sorry but I do have to be truthful to you....
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