The NFL hates ST, but loves motorcycle Ben

[robotfire]

I was listening to a talk show host talking about racism in the NBA. He tried to make a case for Ron Artes, questioning why white players don't get that kind of negative publicity.

Ron Artes is an idiot who happens to be black. He beat up THE CROWD. If an idiot who happened to be white had attacked the crowd, he would also get negative publicity. I was blown away that this guy actually tried to defend Ron Artes by calling the public's reaction racism.

The basic rule is this: If you get in trouble with the law, cause problems in the locker room, or cause problems on the field, you're going to get negative publicity. I'm not saying I don't love Sean Taylor (because I do), but he did bring the negative publicity on himself.

Clint

[C-7]

Originally Posted by LATrueRedskin

Of course the NFL is going to favor Roethlisberger, he is a Quarterback who just won the Super Bowl. Sean Taylor is a Safety who just beat assault charges.

Bingo. That's all that should be said.

[theWarpath]

ST deserves whatever criticism that comes his way. He's had troubles off the field as well as on.

[SeanTaylor36]

its the media... its what they do... theyre like rabid dogs on any storys during these doldrums of football

[joethefan]

while I do agree that it's many times the media, but Sean has to cut down on his issues....I hate it whenever they bring up his name, they have togive you a run down of his so called NFL rap sheet. If something happened two years ago, let it go....but nooo they keep bringing it up to remind you that He's a so called bad guy.

[Thugzbunny]

Originally Posted by Beast56Redskin

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ors.nfl/1.html

About half way down you will find this:


Now, does it bother you that whenever someone wants to rag on Sean, they always list the symposium skipping incident, despite the fact that, as i recall, he was being evicted (someone help me out on this..i couldn't find an article from that far back)

and yet poster boy ben never has this same fact mentioned...?

You reap what you sow.

[smoak]

Originally Posted by redskinz#1fan

Your not far off with your way of thinking. The world hasn't change as much as people think it has!

Really!? Go back and watch games from 20 years ago. It has changed a lot in many ways and for the most part the evolution has been for the best (except the move towards more of a "me first attitude).

Specifically reagrding race relations in sports, I think society has come a long way and still has a much further to go. I gaurantee you that Vince Young gets as much if not more press than Big Ben did for his first start. I think most fans see past color now and look for the story. Maybe I am naive, but I think from a fan perspective that sports are close to color blind on the field (front offices being a seperate issue). Fans want the best guy that helps them win games no matter if his skin is purple, pink, or lime green.

I think it is safer to safe that the NFL markets and promotes their quaterbacks more than safeties. It isn't like Adam Archuletta will get more face time than Donovan McNabb. I think it is borderline irresponsible to call every sports inequality a "race issue". In this case I just think it is a case that the NFL and the media view the QB as more of a fan draw than other positions.

[smoak]

Originally Posted by bantu

You mean the media hasn't lambasted a "white-boy" QB the same way Sean was?? Say it ain't so. I know people on this board are gonna be furious when I say this, but the media and this country always hype up white athletes and are less quick to damn them when they have commited errors on or off the field. People identify less with a black kid from the city than to a midwest kid. So, no it does not bother me at all...anymore.

Furious? No, but I do believe it is irresponsible of you to make those claims without providing evidence/proof. I really disagree. Look at the recent case of Phillies pitcher Brett Myers charged with beating his wife. There seems to be a national outcry against him (rightfully so) and the Phillies for their lack of an appropriate response. Now I don't remember what the response was when Warren Moon and Jason Kidd went through similar circumstances, but certainly they were able to bounce back in they eyes of the media and fans. I truly believe that with the exception of the backwards and small minded minority in this country, that most people judge each other based on actions and merit without respect to color.

With regard to how people "identify" with athletes, do you think a kid from a poor suburb in Louisiana or Mississippi can identify more with Mark Brunell or Steve McNair? What about Brunell or Favre? The point is that yes, some people can "identify" more with someone of the same race, but that identification process is less about race and more about answering the question, "What do I have in common with this person".

Just my thought.

Originally Posted by robotfire

I was listening to a talk show host talking about racism in the NBA. He tried to make a case for Ron Artes, questioning why white players don't get that kind of negative publicity.

Ron Artes is an idiot who happens to be black. He beat up THE CROWD. If an idiot who happened to be white had attacked the crowd, he would also get negative publicity. I was blown away that this guy actually tried to defend Ron Artes by calling the public's reaction racism.

The basic rule is this: If you get in trouble with the law, cause problems in the locker room, or cause problems on the field, you're going to get negative publicity. I'm not saying I don't love Sean Taylor (because I do), but he did bring the negative publicity on himself.

Clint

where to tell it like it is! Ron Artest is all for Ron Artest, little room for anything else. He does the community thing and then implodes afterwards, did it in Cali, did it in Indy, and his legacy continues. The epitome of HOW NOT TO BE IN PRO SPORTS and for life in general.

[joethefan]

The thinng that makes me mad is that some qb's that we know are sorry can hang in the league for 10 to 15 years and other qbs don't last 5.

Lets look at Todd Collins - How long was he in the league. Still getting a check. How long has Ferotte been in the league....at least 13 years and has played for almost everyone other than the cowboys....

I bet ever though we know that Ramsey isn't a starter in this league, I bet he remains in the league at least 10 years.

Sage Rosenfels how long has he been here, Kelly Holcome, Tim Rattay, John Kitna, Todd Bouman, Coy Detmer, Flutie wich was in the league for ever. It just seems to me that white QB's get a longer opportunity to remain in the league than black qbs. Most Black qb's have to almost be starters to remain in the league for more than 5 years....

[smoak]

Originally Posted by joethefan

The thinng that makes me mad is that some qb's that we know are sorry can hang in the league for 10 to 15 years and other qbs don't last 5.

Lets look at Todd Collins - How long was he in the league. Still getting a check. How long has Ferotte been in the league....at least 13 years and has played for almost everyone other than the cowboys....

I bet ever though we know that Ramsey isn't a starter in this league, I bet he remains in the league at least 10 years.

Sage Rosenfels how long has he been here, Kelly Holcome, Tim Rattay, John Kitna, Todd Bouman, Coy Detmer, Flutie wich was in the league for ever. It just seems to me that white QB's get a longer opportunity to remain in the league than black qbs. Most Black qb's have to almost be starters to remain in the league for more than 5 years....

I don't think that is very fair JTF. I personally think Aaron Brooks is atrocious yet he remains a starter. There are MORE white QBs who are gone from the league than those who stick around. Guys like Collins are considered valuable third QBs and almost viewed as an assistant coach on the sidelines. Frerotte made a Pro Bowl. Flutie was an amazing player and he did NOT hang around and decided to take his game to Canada. Kitna is better than some starters (including the aformentioned Brooks). Detmer is an intregal part of the Iggles special teams as a holder, but is admittedly noty a long term replacement for McNabb. Seneca Wallace seems to hang around despite not seeming to be a QB. Jeff Blake and Akili Smith were around forever (it seemed). Other black quaterbacks make it at a different position (Brian Mitchell, ARE, and Ronald Curry come to mind).

I just wish people would focus more on the progress and the positives than always looking for a negative. From some of the stories I've heard about racial slurs and intolerance at the World Cup, I'd say the US isn't that bad.

At some point we have to stop looking for differences and start seeing that most (not all) treat people equally.

[dj_stouty]

Originally Posted by bantu

You mean the media hasn't lambasted a "white-boy" QB the same way Sean was??

Well...that "white-boy" QB hasn't had the rap list that Sean Taylor has had. Same goes for Pac Man Jones. Taylor and Jones (and Leaf for that matter) dont' have several NFL rookie records like Ben does, either...

Stop fishing...

[joethefan]

Originally Posted by smoak

I don't think that is very fair JTF. I personally think Aaron Brooks is atrocious yet he remains a starter. There are MORE white QBs who are gone from the league than those who stick around. Guys like Collins are considered valuable third QBs and almost viewed as an assistant coach on the sidelines. Frerotte made a Pro Bowl. Flutie was an amazing player and he did NOT hang around and decided to take his game to Canada. Kitna is better than some starters (including the aformentioned Brooks). Detmer is an intregal part of the Iggles special teams as a holder, but is admittedly noty a long term replacement for McNabb. Seneca Wallace seems to hang around despite not seeming to be a QB. Jeff Blake and Akili Smith were around forever (it seemed). Other black quaterbacks make it at a different position (Brian Mitchell, ARE, and Ronald Curry come to mind).

I just wish people would focus more on the progress and the positives than always looking for a negative. From some of the stories I've heard about racial slurs and intolerance at the World Cup, I'd say the US isn't that bad.

At some point we have to stop looking for differences and start seeing that most (not all) treat people equally.

Ferotte has been here wayy long....Look at Akili Smiths time in the league...maybe 5 years....Who can't hold the ball...my son can do that smoak..c'mon. It just seems to me that black qb's have a shorter leash than others. How can you justify..Todd Collins being in the league for as long as he has and hasn't thrown 100 passes...now give me 2 black qb's that were in this league that long that have thrown that less of passes? Seneca Wallace is used in a whole different way and you know that. (randle El''ish)

[bantu]

Originally Posted by dj_stouty

Well...that "white-boy" QB hasn't had the rap list that Sean Taylor has had. Same goes for Pac Man Jones. Taylor and Jones (and Leaf for that matter) dont' have several NFL rookie records like Ben does, either...

Stop fishing...

Fishing??!!? Please. While you are right concerning Big Ben (he hasn't done a thing that is against any morals most of us have) and Sean Taylor, my comment was aimed at more of a wider scope in the media. If you don't think the white athlete would get more favorable press if faced with the same situation as a black athlete, you are sadly mistaken.

Fishing?? Gimme a break.

[smoak]

Originally Posted by joethefan

Ferotte has been here wayy long....Look at Akili Smiths time in the league...maybe 5 years....Who can't hold the ball...my son can do that smoak..c'mon. It just seems to me that black qb's have a shorter leash than others. How can you justify..Todd Collins being in the league for as long as he has and hasn't thrown 100 passes...now give me 2 black qb's that were in this league that long that have thrown that less of passes? Seneca Wallace is used in a whole different way and you know that. (randle El''ish)

Frerrotte was 15th in the league in total passing yards and 12th in TDs. I'm not going to even call him average at this point, but he certainly is good enough to be a solid backup. I don't buy that argument one bit.

Todd Collins I don't know that well, but he has only hung around as a journeyman backup. I can only imagine that he has made near minimum wage and only around b/c coaches feel he is worthy of being a #3 in the league.

You're proving my point when you talk about Akili hanging on. He has been in the league 7 years and is one of the worst QBs I have ever seen. Blake has about 15 or so years under his belt and he hasn't been good since the one or two years he had with New Orleans. In my mind I would equate him to Frerotte (a good backup). Charlie Batch, Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, and Kordell Stewart are additional examples of black quarterbacks who hung around for longer than they probably should have, but I certainly do not see it as a function of their race. I just think their is such a void of talent that the NFL will take anyone with experience to be a backup. Combine the lack of talent with the need for cheap labor, and backup QBs all comes down to who is willing to hold a clipboard for a small cap figure (IMO).

JTF, you know I love you, but I find your POV (at least without real evidence to support it) to be the counter productive to a maturing society. Is the NFL perfect? Heck no, but I'm not sure the QB position is the smoking gun as much as the coaching and front office representation are. If you are going to made broad sweeping race allegations, I personally prefer to see some evidence to support the claim rather than just point fingers. However, I have always lived with racism from a different persepective and I admittedly do not understand what it is like to live in the US as a minority. I just wish people would talk about the positives along with the negatives b/c I think a lot of people have made progress from what I remember the world was like when I was a kid. Again, maybe I am naive, but I try to see the good along with the bad.