Just a small sample of why I think Imus should keep his job

[RedskinsDave]

CATHOLIC BASHERS SPARED IMUS TREATMENT

Catholic League president Bill Donohue commented today on the way Catholic
bashers are treated as compared to Don Imus:

"Two years ago, Penn Jillette (of the comedy team Penn and Teller) went on
Showtime calling Mother Teresa 'Mother F-king Teresa' and called the nuns
who worked with her 'f-king c-ts.' Showtime is owned by Viacom and that is
why I wrote to its chief, Sumner Redstone, to register a complaint. He
wrote back extolling the merits of 'artistic freedom' and 'tolerance.' Last
year, on Viacom-owned CBS radio, Jillette said Mother Teresa 'had this
weird kink that I think was sexual,' compared the saintly nun to Charles
Manson and said she 'got her [sexual] kicks watching people suffer and
die.' Again, nothing was done about this.

"In 2005, Bill Maher went on HBO at the time of the death of Pope John Paul
II and said, 'For those who could not make the funeral, the Vatican has
asked that in lieu of flowers, just stop touching your d-k.' He also said
that the whole story of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and the Resurrection was
'grafted from paganism'; he ended by mocking the death of the pope and the
upcoming conclave. The letter I received from HBO said that 'it's a free
country, and people are free to say silly things-even on HBO.'

"Right before Easter, the Catholic League protested the chocolate Jesus
with his genitals exposed that was to be shown in the art gallery of the
Roger Smith Hotel in midtown Manhattan (located on street level, the public
was invited to eat him). Air America radio co-host Cenk Uygur, writing on
'The Huffington Post,' said, 'So is the argument that Jesus didn't have a
d-k? Or were people offended because it was too big? Too Small? Too
immaculate? Not immaculate enough?' Regarding Imus's remark, Uygur called
it 'derogatory and insulting.'

"Similarly, Joan Walsh on Salon.com said the chocolate Jesus was not 'a big
deal,' and advised people not to go see it if they didn't like it. She has
now called on Imus to be fired. Even New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg
said 'don't pay any attention' to the chocolate Jesus, but he now finds it
necessary to brand Imus' comments 'repugnant.'
"In other words, Catholic bashing is humorous and an exercise in liberty.
Racism is awful. Bigotry, then, is neither good nor bad-it just depends who
the target is."

These kinds of things are miniscule in comparison to racist comments on the radio. Someone please explain to me why I cannot be offended but even a remotely racist statement calls for firings? When you can't, then you will understand why I don't lose my head over "nappy headed hos".

[smoak]

I don't think either should be severely punished personally. Ibuy into the hole Howard Stern logic... If you don't like what is being said, don't listen. Obviously we shouldn't toleratye hate messages, but I'm no for censoring comedians.

What I don't know is whether or not Don Imus is/was being a comedian or not? I have never listened to his show and know very little about him.

[CNYSkinFan]

Dave nbot even close to the same thing. Both Bill Maher and Penn Jillette appear late at night on subscription channels. They are both comedians that at times take a political event. There is a much different standard for drive time broadcast radio then subscription late night TV.

And the Chocalate Jesus thing. That stupid protest is what stirred up the controversey. The Catholic League made themselves a target when they protested a chocolate statue. Poiting out the ridiculousness of their protest is not the same as having years of racially insensitive remarks boil over when he attacked a group of young women for no reason other then they played a basketball game.

So now Bill Donahue is trying to get up on the cross himself? Somehow I think he is reacting to the South Park Easter Episoide more so then anything else. This self righteous piece of ***censored by spence*** is why so many people like myself ended up leaving the Catholic faith. I actually think of all the major organized religions the Catholic faith is the most generous but when you have self appointed authorities like Donahue going around questioning other's faith (as he did to Kerry in 2004) you will get a backlash of resentment sent back to you.

The best thing the Catholic League could do for the Catholic faith is to fire that hate monger BIll Donahue and start a real dialogue on religious sensitivity. Donahue does not practice what he preaches.

[Spence]

Dave, who told you you can't be offended by those things? Last I checked, this is America and it is every American's right to be mortally offended by things that don't bother other people. It's in the Constitution. [Somewhere in the back, I think.]

Those comparisons are apples and oranges, however. Let me reiterate: Imus was fired because his sponsors ditched him. The upside to working on commercial radio is you can make a lot of money from your many, many sponsors. The downside is that if those sponsors leave you, you're toast.

Commercial radio is not the same thing as premium cable or a private art gallery inside a private hotel. "The Sopranos" would never have made it past people who found it offensive to Italian-Americans and on to a programming schedule at a broadcast network. That show with Penn & Teller is on Showtime, another premium cable network. I've never seen it, but I have seen -- and greatly enjoy -- another Showtime show called "Dexter." It's a graphic show about a young man who works in a police crime lab. The twist is that Dexter is a serial killer -- and he is the hero. His adoptive father, a decorated policeman, recognized Dexter's serial killer instincts as a child and tried to channel it into a less-horrible direction. The result: Dexter only murders other serial killers. [The show is based on the novel "Darkly Dreaming Dexter."] There is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that "Dexter" could make it on to commercial television. It's subject matter -- while less graphic than you might think -- is far too offensive for many people. That's why it is on Showtime. That's why a show like "Queer as Folk," an American remake of a British show about a group of gay young men, is on Showtime and not on ABC.

That private gallery inside a private hotel is also not vulnerable to sponsors. If the Catholic League wants it to stop displaying art it considers offensive to Catholics, the thing to do is to go after people who stay in the hotel and eat at its restaurant[s]. If the hotel continues to thrive despite protests from the Catholic League, that indicates the hotel's customers either don't agree with the Catholic League or aren't offended enough by the art to discontinue patronizing a business they enjoy. That's the free market at work.

Similarly, Bill Donohue can get away with being an anti-Semite and a homophobe because people who care about the Catholic League either agree with Mr Donohue's views on those subjects or are not bothered by them enough to sever their relationship with an organization they otherwise respect and admire.

The Don Imus Show is nasty, bigoted, and offensive to many, many people. Commercial radio is the wrong place for it. Imus will resurface on satellite radio, where he and Howard Stern belong. And, like Howard Stern, he'll make a lot of money doing his satellite radio show for a smaller audience that enjoys that sort of entertainment. If you like negro jokes with your corn flakes, there's Imus. If you like lesbian strippers with your Raisin Bran, there's Stern.

As far as I'm concerned, this is how things are supposed to work.

P.S. That Bill Maher joke is freaking hilarious.

[RedskinsDave]

Thanks for proving my point Dustin. I said it was a small sample but I could probably listen to plenty of free radio where the Catholic church or Christians have things said about them that is far worse than nappy headed hos. People like you leave the Church because there are rules not because of Donahue. Funny how you have a problem with him being the mouthpiece for these things but Imus can still be fired when America's top douche bags come crying.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by smoak

I don't think either should be severely punished personally. Ibuy into the hole Howard Stern logic... If you don't like what is being said, don't listen. Obviously we shouldn't toleratye hate messages, but I'm no for censoring comedians.

What I don't know is whether or not Don Imus is/was being a comedian or not? I have never listened to his show and know very little about him.

Lets be clear why Imus was fired. He was fired because the sponsors were citching his show left and right. The market was speaking more then anyone else. I dont commend CBS for his firing nor do I condemn it. They made a buisness decision, it was not because of the racial remarks he made. IF the sponsors had hung on then he would still be there today.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

Thanks for proving my point Dustin. I said it was a small sample but I could probably listen to plenty of free radio where the Catholic church or Christians have things said about them that is far worse than nappy headed hos. People like you leave the Church because there are rules not because of Donahue. Funny how you have a problem with him being the mouthpiece for these things but Imus can still be fired when America's top douche bags come crying.

[RedskinsDave]

No Tom, the point is why can blacks being offended at rather inocuous statements yet not one person who isn't Catholic says a word abour much worse comments? Ohhh, because there's no idiot white guilt a-holes running to defend anyone else. You gain nothing by defending my people or feigning outrage at things said about Catholics. Actually, in contrats you think they're funny! Thanks for proving my point kids.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by Keino

What happened, did someone look at a black person wrong? That always gets you crying.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

No Tom, the point is why can blacks being offended at rather inocuous statements yet not one person who isn't Catholic says a word abour much worse comments? Ohhh, because there's no idiot white guilt a-holes running to defend anyone else. You gain nothing by defending my people or feigning outrage at things said about Catholics. Actually, in contrats you think they're funny! Thanks for proving my point kids.

Your people? So what about the Black catholic that was offended by Imus' comments?


BTW - To me the most offensive part of Imus' comments was the characterization of these young ladies as Hos. The other thing is that I expect that women in the public eye are going to have comments made about their appearance. That kind of goes with the territory of being in the public eye. However, these girls are not public figures and like I posted earlier, I immediately put myself in the shoes of a parent or brother. The comments were more sexist than anything in my view, but in all honesty if some 66 year old dude, white or black referred to my daughter as a Nappy headed Ho I would punch him dead in his mouth....2 times.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

What happened, did someone look at a black person wrong? That always gets you crying.

Nope, just how I pictured you in typing your post. I cry about injustice done to black people.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

Thanks for proving my point Dustin. I said it was a small sample but I could probably listen to plenty of free radio where the Catholic church or Christians have things said about them that is far worse than nappy headed hos. People like you leave the Church because there are rules not because of Donahue. Funny how you have a problem with him being the mouthpiece for these things but Imus can still be fired when America's top douche bags come crying.

People like me leave the Church because the rules are hypocritical and only apply to the parishoners and not the clergy or hierarchy. Dave you simply have no idea why I left the church yet you condemn me for it. That is the self righteous attitude that keeps people from enjoying the faith they way they should.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by Keino

Your people? So what about the Black catholic that was offended by Imus' comments?


BTW - To me the most offensive part of Imus' comments was the characterization of these young ladies as Hos. The other thing is that I expect that women in the public eye are going to have comments made about their appearance. That kind of goes with the territory of being in the public eye. However, these girls are not public figures and like I posted earlier, I immediately put myself in the shoes of a parent or brother. The comments were more sexist than anything in my view, but in all honesty if some 66 year old dude, white or black referred to my daughter as a Nappy headed Ho I would punch him dead in his mouth....2 times.

A black Catholic is allowed to be offended by Imus but not anti-Catholic comments in this country.

Imus' comments were stupid. They were nowhere near the outrage they generated. Of course that's because of who they were directed at and what color they are. The dismissal of similar or worse comments to other groups in this country is what makes it really hard for me to fake outrage like so many others do. I'd rather save my real outrage for things that are actually racist.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

No Tom, the point is why can blacks being offended at rather inocuous statements yet not one person who isn't Catholic says a word abour much worse comments? Ohhh, because there's no idiot white guilt a-holes running to defend anyone else. You gain nothing by defending my people or feigning outrage at things said about Catholics. Actually, in contrats you think they're funny! Thanks for proving my point kids.

What Imus said was "innocuous" to you. Not to many other people. I didn't find it innocuous. Clearly, Imus' sponsors believed his comments were not innocuous. Imus spent a week apologizing for what he said so even he didn't think his comments were innocuous. You're perfectly entitled to think his comments were innocuous -- so long as you accept that other people have their own honestly-held views on the subject that are different from your own.

The Catholic League doesn't like what Penn Jillette said about Mother Theresa. Obviously, the thing to do is try to convince Showtime subscribers to cancel their subscriptions in outrage. If that hasn't happened, a reasonable person can only conclude that not very many people were bothered enough by what Jillette said to cancel their subscription. Or, since hardly anyone ever watches Penn Jillette's show, maybe not enough people are even aware the comments were made. The truth is probably a bit of both.

No show -- no anything -- is ever going to be cancelled because the Catholic League or Al Sharpton dislikes it. That sort of thing only happens if there is a consumer revolt or the strong possibility of a consumer revolt. You rarely -- if ever -- see a consumer revolt against programming on premium cable television. Part of the whole point of pay TV is that it is immune from consumer revolts.

Notice that the Catholic League didn't provide you with any examples from ABC or CBS. That's because offensive or borderline-offensive material is largely kept off free TV due to the strong possibility of consumer revolt. Imus was on free radio and thus was just as susceptible to consumer revolt as CSI would be on CBS. That's why free TV is full of bland, inoffensive shows like CSI or American Idol.

The Catholic League is an organization of faith hustlers, the way Sharpton is a race hustler. It's easier for those guys to organize consumer revolts in places where consumers haven't already declared their allegiances. It's almost impossible to organize a boycott of pay TV [some Italian-American organizations tried when The Sopranos debuted on HBO] because the people who buy HBO have already made it clear that they want to see things that are controversial. When Imus moves to satellite radio, where he belongs, he'll be much safer. People who buy his show will not be joining any consumer boycotts because they've already voted with their money.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

People like me leave the Church because the rules are hypocritical and only apply to the parishoners and not the clergy or hierarchy. Dave you simply have no idea why I left the church yet you condemn me for it. That is the self righteous attitude that keeps people from enjoying the faith they way they should.

If you have a problem with self-righteous attitudes how can you still be a democrat?