Gibbs' Comment re: Redskins Defensive Line

[smoak]

Hopefully this discussion stays the path of contructive, but given the passionate nature of our feelings on the subject.... probably not.

If you can (or even care) watch Gibbs presser on Day 2. At the end he is asked if the team considered a d-lineman at any of their picks today. Some of you will want to open a vein, but Gibbs' response was along the lines of "not really". His claim is that the coaching staff really felt that the D-line was hurt by the poor secondary play last year and that they addressed that need this offseason. I agree completely, and I've posted about games that I've seen on NFL Network (Jags and Titans) where you can really see the secondary was the problem and not the D-line. The guys played off, missed tackles, blew quick reads, and really were garbage from day 1 in the preseason.

However, the D-line is FAR from blame free and getting very old VERY fast. I am disappointed we didn't end up with a D-lineman, but I am not disappointed that we seemed to take "best available" regardless of position.

Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts regarding 1) whether or not we imporved the secondary and 2) will it help the pass rush. Also, if someone has the games on DVD, I'd like to buy them all and do some play by play analysis of the defense and where the breakdowns occured. (Hey, its a long offseason and I don't watch baseball)

[frankez99]

Originally Posted by smoak

Hopefully this discussion stays the path of contructive, but given the passionate nature of our feelings on the subject.... probably not.

If you can (or even care) watch Gibbs presser on Day 2. At the end he is asked if the team considered a d-lineman at any of their picks today. Some of you will want to open a vein, but Gibbs' response was along the lines of "not really". His claim is that the coaching staff really felt that the D-line was hurt by the poor secondary play last year and that they addressed that need this offseason. I agree completely, and I've posted about games that I've seen on NFL Network (Jags and Titans) where you can really see the secondary was the problem and not the D-line. The guys played off, missed tackles, blew quick reads, and really were garbage from day 1 in the preseason.

However, the D-line is FAR from blame free and getting very old VERY fast. I am disappointed we didn't end up with a D-lineman, but I am not disappointed that we seemed to take "best available" regardless of position.

Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts regarding 1) whether or not we imporved the secondary and 2) will it help the pass rush. Also, if someone has the games on DVD, I'd like to buy them all and do some play by play analysis of the defense and where the breakdowns occured. (Hey, its a long offseason and I don't watch baseball)

I am inclined to believe that last years defensive play was an aberration that will not be repeated this year.....that being said......

how in the world can the performance of the secondary be to blame for the ineptitude of the front 4? Please explain that to me JG. And what came first, the chicken or the egg?

[Fathead]

The LBs and DBs can be responsible for poor run D and for a lack of pass rush, depending on the situation. I don't really agree that it's what happened to us last year, but it is within the realm of possibility.



I do think we've upgraded the DBs and the LBs, so there is absolutely no excuse for the D-line now.

[jaylen]

We're such an incompetent franchise right now it really disappoints me . I've been a Skins fan for over 30 years and we just don't seem to have a clue.

I know exactly what we're gonna do, we're gonna trade away next years draft in the next few month's in getting some d lineman someone else doesn't want or doesn't wanna pay. I keep hearing about the Lion's Redding and others being available and it fits with our dysfunction to give away next years draft picks to get players we could have simply drafted ourselves.

Greg Williams should have been fired in the off season simply because on his side of the ball he allowed so many breakdowns rather it being bad judgements on free agents or the lack of communciation and bickering within the defensive staff.

[CarMike]

Originally Posted by jaylen

We're such an incompetent franchise right now it really disappoints me . I've been a Skins fan for over 30 years and we just don't seem to have a clue.

I know exactly what we're gonna do, we're gonna trade away next years draft in the next few month's in getting some d lineman someone else doesn't want or doesn't wanna pay. I keep hearing about the Lion's Redding and others being available and it fits with our dysfunction to give away next years draft picks to get players we could have simply drafted ourselves.

Greg Williams should have been fired in the off season simply because on his side of the ball he allowed so many breakdowns rather it being bad judgements on free agents or the lack of communciation and bickering within the defensive staff.

yeah, that's just what we need. Another DC for our defense to learn.

GW didn't deserve to be fired after a bad year. Now if it happens again, then i'll agree. I just don't see it right now though.

[shally]

Originally Posted by smoak

Hopefully this discussion stays the path of contructive, but given the passionate nature of our feelings on the subject.... probably not.

If you can (or even care) watch Gibbs presser on Day 2. At the end he is asked if the team considered a d-lineman at any of their picks today. Some of you will want to open a vein, but Gibbs' response was along the lines of "not really". His claim is that the coaching staff really felt that the D-line was hurt by the poor secondary play last year and that they addressed that need this offseason. I agree completely, and I've posted about games that I've seen on NFL Network (Jags and Titans) where you can really see the secondary was the problem and not the D-line. The guys played off, missed tackles, blew quick reads, and really were garbage from day 1 in the preseason.

However, the D-line is FAR from blame free and getting very old VERY fast. I am disappointed we didn't end up with a D-lineman, but I am not disappointed that we seemed to take "best available" regardless of position.

Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts regarding 1) whether or not we imporved the secondary and 2) will it help the pass rush. Also, if someone has the games on DVD, I'd like to buy them all and do some play by play analysis of the defense and where the breakdowns occured. (Hey, its a long offseason and I don't watch baseball)

this is a laboratory for GW's philosophy that asks little of the d line except to stop the run and keep players off the linebackers..

i totally disagree with him (who the hell am I?).. but so does the rest of the league

and gibbs ignored his own history of winning with less than stellar play in the secondary, and nearly always great D line play to sign on to this.. we are going to find out because GW got exactly what he wanted this off season: a true qb for the defense (fletcher), a potentially great safety (landry) quality depth for the corner position (smoot/macklin) a return of 2 decent vets ( PP and stoutmire) and role players to develop in blades and sartz.... a nothing for the d line except giving them their wish for the conditioning programs so that they can heal, rest and recouperate

if we have anything less than a top 10 defense in every measurable way
then GW should be flat out fired... and gibbs should follow him up into the presidential suite allowing a young GM to take over and hire the coach he wants.. this is an all or nothing year for both

[colkurtz]

This defense will improve with the better DB we've brought in. But the FO did say before the draft that the DL was a need and priority. Now, with NO CHANGES its suddenly ok?

They got cold feet on a DL choice, took the safer pick and now are trying justify it.

[skins111111]

a stud D-Line can make and average secondary look awsome and on the other hand a poor secondary can make a good D-Line look bad.

1-We now have an awsome secondary
2-Gibbs and the FO are very happy with Daniels and Griff comeing back healthy and with the developement of Golston and Montgomery. not to mention the progression of Carter

[dj_stouty]

I'm pretty sure that Gibbs believes in building the offense from the O-line back. I'm not sure why that theory doesn't pertain to the defense, as far as building from the D-line back.

Maybe Gibbs has been promised by GW that all is well on the D-line, but I'm not buying.

[shally]

Originally Posted by Fathead

The LBs and DBs can be responsible for poor run D and for a lack of pass rush, depending on the situation. I don't really agree that it's what happened to us last year, but it is within the realm of possibility.



I do think we've upgraded the DBs and the LBs, so there is absolutely no excuse for the D-line now.

nope... any defense that relies upon the back 7 for a pass rush, instead of the base front 4 is doomed to failure eventually .. because offenses figure it out and then the defense gets shredded

[colkurtz]

Originally Posted by shally

this is a laboratory for GW's philosophy that asks little of the d line except to stop the run and keep players off the linebackers..

i totally disagree with him (who the hell am I?).. but so does the rest of the league

if we have anything less than a top 10 defense in every measurable way
then GW should be flat out fired... and gibbs should follow him up into the presidential suite allowing a young GM to take over and hire the coach he wants.. this is an all or nothing year for both

I agree completely. Thanks for having the courage to say it. I believe that for Gibbs this is simply a building season and his last before he moves to Team President. Landry is a safe choice as they rebuild the defense.

[shally]

Originally Posted by dj_stouty

I'm pretty sure that Gibbs believes in building the offense from the O-line back. I'm not sure why that theory doesn't pertain to the defense, as far as building from the D-line back.

Maybe Gibbs has been promised by GW that all is well on the D-line, but I'm not buying.

he has drunk the GW kool aid.. gibbs built with mann, manley, butz and grant. and then added players like geathers to great effect.. we often had mediocre safeties like curtis jordan and mark murphy towards the end.
even guys like alvin walton were just better than average. ken houston was a force and tony peters was better than average.. but nobody would have confused our safeties with elites...sadly, gibbs knows better

[MikeBass]

The line is fine for the defense that we run and now we have the athleticism at the positions that are to be counted on more. I think that the free agents that we signed Smoot, Fletcher, Macklin etc. along with Landry and maybe Sartz and Blades are going to enable us to do some things that we were doing in the past but maybe even better.

[jtovb2005]

Originally Posted by shally

he has drunk the GW kool aid.. gibbs built with mann, manley, butz and grant. and then added players like geathers to great effect.. we often had mediocre safeties like curtis jordan and mark murphy towards the end.
even guys like alvin walton were just better than average. ken houston was a force and tony peters was better than average.. but nobody would have confused our safeties with elites...sadly, gibbs knows better

Good points on Gibbs first run Safeties. I liked Murphy though and wonder if we compare those safeties to todays that seem to need to be faster than they used too? Murphy moved like sludge out there but always seemed to be in the right place. He was also Richie Pettibone's brain out there. Those defenses were the classic working man D's that got done what they needed to do. On the subject they were imensly helped by pressuring the QB from the front 4. Those of us that were around for Manley and Mann really want another one back.

[redskin_rich]

I disagree with that the secondary was the biggest problem and I don't think we have adequately upgraded at the CB position. All we have upgraded is the Nickelback. Still our top 3 CB's are all injury prone and two of them [Rogers and Smoot] have question marks as to their performance.

I feel upgrading the D-Line has more of a trickle down effect on the entire unit than upgrading the back 4.
Regardless of philosophy, the fact is that our D-Line is the oldest unit of any on the entire team.