Gibbs' Comment re: Redskins Defensive Line

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by smoak

Did they? I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that?

IMO, the "fire GW" mentality is the same horse dung that got us into this mess in 2004. Its taken awhile, but I think Gibbs has this roster where it can compete... Sure, I'd love another D-lineman. Heck, I'd love Julius Peppers. But what % of d-linemen are that good? I didn't see any this year that I felt really comfortable taking at #6.

I think it is more a case that they like they players they have and don't see the need to rebuild. I don't agree with not upgreading Daniels, but the rest I am ok with...
c'mon shally, this is a much different NFL. I will NEVE say that you don't build on the lines first and foremost, but these days teams really need a dominat S to have a good defense. It allows for so much flexability.

First off, according to every source, Okoye was at the top of our list with Landry. The Skins took Landry supposedly because they felt that Safety was the bigger need. I personally think fear of failure crept in and since they couldn't trade down, they took the safest pick. If we had traded down, I would bet that a DE or DT would have been taken but that is pure conjecture.
My point is that, I'm not buying this whole "the D-Line is fine" line that Gibbs is selling. He is just doing damage control or spinning, if you will.

Secondly, we already have a stud Safety. Who builds a defense starting with the Safetys? Having two studs there is a luxury and something you would do as a finishing touch. Not what you would do to address a defense that has hit bottom in historic fashion. We did this last year by signing Arch (and I'm not comparing his abilities to Landry) but we were coming off another season in the top ten on defense and we had a need with the loss of Clark. Obviously, it didn't work out and once again we found out that chemistry is more important than physical ability. I believe in Landry's talent but I sure hope he understands GW's schemes and can be a leader or this will end up being another disaster. Truthfully, I am pretty confident that won't be the case but I wouldn't rule it out.

Basically, Okoye or another DL player would have been an upgrade and filled a need, regardless of if they were worth the pick, as far as the value some of you assign. To me, a good D-Lineman is worth more than all but the very best Safetys. I'm talking a Ronnie Lott or an Ed Reed. I sure hope Landry becomes that or this pick will not have been the best move in my book.

[smoak]

Whoa... Don't shoot the messanger.

1) Not sure I diagree.... I'm just reporting what was said as it caught me by surprise. I know I saw a heck of a lot of plays where I said out loud "you can't put that on the D-line".... Of course I was the only one in the room.

2) Not sure I disagree here either (We do have a stud S), but I do like Landry better than any of the D-linemen at #6. My fear is that ST and Landry never develop the chemistry... Time will tell I suppose, but I am really afraid that they never pull it together.

3) I adamantly disagree that Okoye or any D-lineman would have been an upgrade. Anderson was the only guy I felt was a definite upgrade (over Daniels). I could see Okoye sitting... Branch probably starts, but has injury concerns. Gaines Adams is my sleeper pick for "bust-a-licous" player of '07 (which means he'll get double digit sacks and win ROY).

[new guy]

I have seen alot of good points being made. Feeling a negative vibe for my skins though. I will be the first to admit that I was dissapointed that we didnt pick up any dl today but GW is a beast I dont what anyone says. He has made some questionable personal desc. they had one bad year and he lost his "shutdown corner" for what was basically the entire year. there arent many teams that can that afford this much less GW and the system he runs.
I for one dont care who hits the qb as long as it is someone. As I remember not really that much dl pressure the whole time GW been here. As long as we stay healthy this year our defense will be fine. That bieng said I still think we should have picked up a de today so that next we wont have to spend high pics on dl were there not meant to be spent unless the guys a freak coming out of college.

[shally]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

First off, according to every source, Okoye was at the top of our list with Landry. The Skins took Landry supposedly because they felt that Safety was the bigger need. I personally think fear of failure crept in and since they couldn't trade down, they took the safest pick. If we had traded down, I would bet that a DE or DT would have been taken but that is pure conjecture.
My point is that, I'm not buying this whole "the D-Line is fine" line that Gibbs is selling. He is just doing damage control or spinning, if you will.

Secondly, we already have a stud Safety. Who builds a defense starting with the Safetys? Having two studs there is a luxury and something you would do as a finishing touch. Not what you would do to address a defense that has hit bottom in historic fashion. We did this last year by signing Arch (and I'm not comparing his abilities to Landry) but we were coming off another season in the top ten on defense and we had a need with the loss of Clark. Obviously, it didn't work out and once again we found out that chemistry is more important than physical ability. I believe in Landry's talent but I sure hope he understands GW's schemes and can be a leader or this will end up being another disaster. Truthfully, I am pretty confident that won't be the case but I wouldn't rule it out.

Basically, Okoye or another DL player would have been an upgrade and filled a need, regardless of if they were worth the pick, as far as the value some of you assign. To me, a good D-Lineman is worth more than all but the very best Safetys. I'm talking a Ronnie Lott or an Ed Reed. I sure hope Landry becomes that or this pick will not have been the best move in my book.

right you are on all counts !

plus if landry was a sure thing and okoye and anderson were major reaches it would be one thing.. but by all accounts all 3 were high first round talents
and i am not sure ANY first round pick is a sure thing. you take your chances with all.

so then it comes down to position of need and i think this where most of us amateurs diverged from the skins front office. when it comes down to it, despite loading up with fox and stoutmire and doughty and PP it came down to GW and gibbs feeling that safety was the position of greater need

maybe they were just blowing smoke before and it was misdirection to say the d line needed attention first. and maybe after looking at tape they changed their minds.. and maybe they just fell in love with what landry could bring and were not impressed with any of the d linemen

so here we are

[shally]

Originally Posted by new guy

I have seen alot of good points being made. Feeling a negative vibe for my skins though. I will be the first to admit that I was dissapointed that we didnt pick up any dl today but GW is a beast I dont what anyone says. He has made some questionable personal desc. they had one bad year and he lost his "shutdown corner" for what was basically the entire year. there arent many teams that can that afford this much less GW and the system he runs.
I for one dont care who hits the qb as long as it is someone. As I remember not really that much dl pressure the whole time GW been here. As long as we stay healthy this year our defense will be fine. That bieng said I still think we should have picked up a de today so that next we wont have to spend high pics on dl were there not meant to be spent unless the guys a freak coming out of college.

welcome. enjoy the site

i do not think any team can count on their squad remaining healthy all year long. it is just too physical a game and the season is too long.

the good teams, like chicago, can rise above the loss of 3 of their defensive starters and go to the superbowl. poor teams can find an excuse at anytime for losing

we have added depth to the entire defense ...except the d line.. and that is the oldest and most brittle unit.. why is that ? that is what bugs me. even if you feel you need other positions more, how do you feel satisfied with the d line ? if you are not improving, you are falling behind..

[new guy]

I almost forgot HAILSKINS FOOOOORRRRREEEEVVVEERR!!!

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by smoak

Whoa... Don't shoot the messanger.

1) Not sure I diagree.... I'm just reporting what was said as it caught me by surprise. I know I saw a heck of a lot of plays where I said out loud "you can't put that on the D-line".... Of course I was the only one in the room.

2) Not sure I disagree here either (We do have a stud S), but I do like Landry better than any of the D-linemen at #6. My fear is that ST and Landry never develop the chemistry... Time will tell I suppose, but I am really afraid that they never pull it together.

3) I adamantly disagree that Okoye or any D-lineman would have been an upgrade. Anderson was the only guy I felt was a definite upgrade (over Daniels). I could see Okoye sitting... Branch probably starts, but has injury concerns. Gaines Adams is my sleeper pick for "bust-a-licous" player of '07 (which means he'll get double digit sacks and win ROY).

I quoted you but I was moreso addressing the issue.

Why do you adamantly disagree that Okoye or some others would be an upgrade? I somewhat agree on Adams, he is strictly a pass rushing specialist and didn't necessarily fill a a crucial need. Yes, we could use a pass rusher but an every down player is more important. But Adams was gone anyway, so that doesn't matter.
You don't think Okoye will be better than Salave'a or Golston or be a good player to rotate and eventually replace Griff? You don't think Anderson or Carriker would be an instant upgrade over Daniels and Wynn?

[shally]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

I quoted you but I was moreso addressing the issue.

Why do you adamantly disagree that Okoye or some others would be an upgrade? I somewhat agree on Adams, he is strictly a pass rushing specialist and didn't necessarily fill a a crucial need. Yes, we could use a pass rusher but an every down player is more important. But Adams was gone anyway, so that doesn't matter.
You don't think Okoye will be better than Salave'a or Golston or be a good player to rotate and eventually replace Griff? You don't think Anderson or Carriker would be an instant upgrade over Daniels and Wynn?

and when it comes down to it, how sure can anyone be that landry is a surer pick than every one of those d linemen ?

i think position, in the end, trumped the degree of certainty of the pick. GW just wanted his defense to have the best safety combination in the nfl. let's see if it works out that way..

[new guy]

thanks for the welcome. I agree that depth at dl should have been addressed today but it wont have changed anything this year imo.

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by new guy

I have seen alot of good points being made. Feeling a negative vibe for my skins though. I will be the first to admit that I was dissapointed that we didnt pick up any dl today but GW is a beast I dont what anyone says. He has made some questionable personal desc. they had one bad year and he lost his "shutdown corner" for what was basically the entire year. there arent many teams that can that afford this much less GW and the system he runs.
I for one dont care who hits the qb as long as it is someone. As I remember not really that much dl pressure the whole time GW been here. As long as we stay healthy this year our defense will be fine. That bieng said I still think we should have picked up a de today so that next we wont have to spend high pics on dl were there not meant to be spent unless the guys a freak coming out of college.

Count me in on that one, we was getting pressure from other positions when we were #5 and #9 and no one seemed to mind and I do not think anyone will once the pressure starts coming this year. I can understand what some are saying though because when you see Tiki or Steven Jack running wild the first people you want to blame is the line but it is the linebackers duties to plug that hole up. Or when you see quaterbacks having a little more time to throw than usual you want to say "hey Daniels what's up?!!!" when it was not all Daniels' fault and he tried to explain that in his e-mail but no one wanted to hear that until Gibbs and Co. showed everyone this weekend that they did not think that it was his fault either.

[new guy]

I dont about anyone else but I am very happy this year that our FO didnt do what it has in the past selling out to every team that whispered sweet nothings in our ear .I also dont mind uses our draft pics here and there to aquire qaulity players but BLOYD WHO?? TJ 2 TOUCH DUCKET I mean come on. Should have picked up abraham last year not noking on carter but never really heard of the guy before he was a skin . Dont get me wrong there my guys now but if you want to go spending draft picks do on someone WELL worth it. Atleast briggs was a probowler you know?

[shally]

Originally Posted by new guy

I dont about anyone else but I am very happy this year that our FO didnt do what it has in the past selling out to every team that whispered sweet nothings in our ear .I also dont mind uses our draft pics here and there to aquire qaulity players but BLOYD WHO?? TJ 2 TOUCH DUCKET I mean come on. Should have picked up abraham last year not noking on carter but never really heard of the guy before he was a skin . Dont get me wrong there my guys now but if you want to go spending draft picks do on someone WELL worth it. Atleast briggs was a probowler you know?

we did well avoiding abraham.. he is still an IR list unto himself. i am no fan of his

[new guy]

And another thing I have been read here for a little while lot of hatting on Dan the man but I have sen this man do everything in his power to make the REDSKINS what they used to be. I will give you he has made some stupid a$$ move in his time here(I hate jeff george grr) but I see nothing but improvement every year. Maybe not by leaps and bounds but improvment non the less. Honestly How many of us can say we wouldnt have made some of the same mistakes he has if we were to become the owner of our fav. team?

[new guy]

Point was only trade for proven players carter had what one GOOD year .

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by new guy

Point was only trade for proven players carter had what one GOOD year .

yeah but he will have a monster year this year. San Fran had him playing linebacker so he had to re-adjust to playing end when he got here but when he got back used to playing end he was playing lights out football.