Santana said he lost it in the Lights

[guess88]

Originally Posted by bergiemoore

Wasn't the excuse last year the hammy injury?

Randle El has been consistent, if not spectacular.

ARE's spectacular as a slot and gadget guy, but he's not starting caliber at all. I do admire how he stepped up as a #2 though. I think we just need a guy to be what we wanted BLloyd to be.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

I think that Campbell really needs to look at how Brunnell and Collins throw the deep ball to Moss and try to mimmick it more. Is it all Campbell's fault no is it all Moss's no. If Moss gets the better oline and a better Campbell and still doesn't produce then you would have been right. I still wouldn't take him over guys in their mid to late 30's but I would have been wrong.

Moss has to adjust to Campbell. Campbell has the arm and was giving him the opportunities to make plays, but Moss was blowing it this year. Thats all on Moss. Especially since ARE and Cooley seem to have no problem with Campbell.

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

If the oline is back and healthy and Portis and Campbell and Betts don't play better I will be just as wrong about them too. If you think he quit that is your opinion. He is one of the main reasons along with Portis on offense we went to the playoffs in 2005 and this year so to say he is a quitter is your words not mine. The same reason Portis is still a good back but didn't have a year number wise like he has had in the past is the same reason why Moss didn't either and Betts.

Portis had 1600 total yards and 11 TDs despite that disaster of an Oline. He's producing. Thats more yards than Moss has receiving in the last 2 years combined I believe(and more TDs).

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

So add them to your get rid of list as well.

I've been saying since the early season that Betts should go.

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

But I would say while we are all trying to get rid of Moss: Springs, Washington, Lloyd and Daniels and possibly Griffen are 10 times more a priority to deal with then trying to get rid of Moss.

Getting a real threat at WR who doesn't sprain something when someone looks at him crosseyed and you know..."produces"..is a bigger priority than any of that.

[guess88]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

If you have to create a perfect situation for a player to be vaguely effective, then the player isn't worth it(especially for 6 million in cap room for 2008). If a player can't stay healthy for 2 years, then the player isn't worth it.

Not to put Santana on Randy's level, but RMoss, had some horrible years at receiver as well. Receivers can only be as good as the guy giving them the ball. That's the situation WR's have, and I'm pretty sure that's why Randy was happy to finally go to a team that had a good (actually stellar) one.

[bergiemoore]

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

I think that Campbell really needs to look at how Brunnell and Collins throw the deep ball to Moss and try to mimmick it more. Is it all Campbell's fault no is it all Moss's no.

Brunell and Collins both underthrow Moss. Moss is great at making the adjustment back to the ball, and has had to out jump defenders in a couple of instances. This isn't something that I would want Campbell mimicking.

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

So add them to your get rid of list as well. But I would say while we are all trying to get rid of Moss: Springs, Washington, Lloyd and Daniels and possibly Griffen are 10 times more a priority to deal with then trying to get rid of Moss.

Okay, I'll grant you that Washington has been a shadow of his former self, Lloyd is a bum, and Daniels is clinically dead, but what's wrong with Griff and Springs?

[bergiemoore]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Getting a real threat at WR who doesn't sprain something when someone looks at him crosseyed and you know..."produces"..is a bigger priority than any of that.

ROTFLMAO

[Battle Cat]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Moss has to adjust to Campbell. Campbell has the arm and was giving him the opportunities to make plays, but Moss was blowing it this year. Thats all on Moss. Especially since ARE and Cooley seem to have no problem with Campbell.



Portis had 1600 total yards and 11 TDs despite that disaster of an Oline. He's producing. Thats more yards than Moss has receiving in the last 2 years combined I believe(and more TDs).



I've been saying since the early season that Betts should go.



Getting a real threat at WR who doesn't sprain something when someone looks at him crosseyed and you know..."produces"..is a bigger priority than any of that.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it I disagree. I think O line and consistent defense were the main things holding this team back his year. I think wide receiver was below oline, secondary, d line, and quarterback play. Then comes special temas, wide receiver and linebacker play and then finally running back play.

[Battle Cat]

Originally Posted by bergiemoore

Brunell and Collins both underthrow Moss. Moss is great at making the adjustment back to the ball, and has had to out jump defenders in a couple of instances. This isn't something that I would want Campbell mimicking.



Okay, I'll grant you that Washington has been a shadow of his former self, Lloyd is a bum, and Daniels is clinically dead, but what's wrong with Griff and Springs?

Griff and Springs are good players who are starting next year going to be paid like great players. Springs had a horrible game last week but he actually in my opinion had a good season. But is his season worth 6-7 million dollars a year? I think that is a hard question. I am leaning towards no. And after his standing strong last off season to get what his contract said he was suppose to get this year I don't see him voluntering for a restructure this year. Cornelius Griffen is probably now with Sean Taylor gone our 1st or 2nd best defensive player, but his salary is also going through the roof. Should he get paid like Kevin Williams from Minnesota or Henderson from the Jags? I think we have to decide and think about it. Plus the overall fact that we are kind of an old team on defense. Springs, Fletcher, Griffen, Daniels, Washington. Do you hold it together one more year and pay all the money and risk getting old all at once or do you make a move on these guys now and move them one year to early instead of one year to late.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by guess88

Not to put Santana on Randy's level, but RMoss, had some horrible years at receiver as well. Receivers can only be as good as the guy giving them the ball. That's the situation WR's have, and I'm pretty sure that's why Randy was happy to finally go to a team that had a good (actually stellar) one.

The difference being that Randy at least has a long track record of production that could bring the issue of whether or not its not him thats the problem into the realm of the legitimate. 8 seasons over 1000 yards receiving. Santana doesn't have anything close to that for us to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it I disagree. I think O line and consistent defense were the main things holding this team back his year. I think wide receiver was below oline, secondary, d line, and quarterback play. Then comes special temas, wide receiver and linebacker play and then finally running back play.

When your TE is your leading WR for 2 straight years, there's a problem with the WRs. Cooley has 5 more TDs, 7 more catches and only 200 or so less yards than Moss does in 2006 and 2007.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

Griff and Springs are good players who are starting next year going to be paid like great players. Springs had a horrible game last week but he actually in my opinion had a good season. But is his season worth 6-7 million dollars a year? I think that is a hard question. I am leaning towards no. And after his standing strong last off season to get what his contract said he was suppose to get this year I don't see him voluntering for a restructure this year. Cornelius Griffen is probably now with Sean Taylor gone our 1st or 2nd best defensive player, but his salary is also going through the roof. Should he get paid like Kevin Williams from Minnesota or Henderson from the Jags? I think we have to decide and think about it. Plus the overall fact that we are kind of an old team on defense. Springs, Fletcher, Griffen, Daniels, Washington. Do you hold it together one more year and pay all the money and risk getting old all at once or do you make a move on these guys now and move them one year to early instead of one year to late.

I've been saying that Griffin, Washington, Daniels and Springs all might or should be gone from this team due to pay versus performance for many weeks now. Especially Washington and Springs.

[Battle Cat]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I've been saying that Griffin, Washington, Daniels and Springs all might or should be gone from this team due to pay versus performance for many weeks now. Especially Washington and Springs.

I think all of what I just named is more important than trying to get rid of Santana Moss. C. Griffen (Some Hicktown, Alabama) is the only one that I might would consider keeping. And get Karlos Dansby (Birmingham, Alabama) as our only major free agent aquisition to take M. Washington's (Auburn, Alabama) place.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

I think all of what I just named is more important than trying to get rid of Santana Moss. Griffen is the only one that I might would consider keeping. And get Karlos Dansby (Birmingham, Alabama) as our only major free agent aquisition to take M. Washington's place.

I don't see why you prioritize them. If you can make any move to improve the team, you do it.

[Battle Cat]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I don't see why you prioritize them. If you can make any move to improve the team, you do it.

Because even though Vinny C and Danny are the salary cap kings. Getting rid of Lloyd and some of those other players even though I admit I am not a guru or close to a expert will probably have us pushing the cap or maybe straddling it. I think Adam A. is still partially on the books as well as Sean Taylor. So I have a wish list of what I think should be done but the salary cap probably means all of it can't be done and get a strong side linebacker and pay our first round draft pick be it DE, CB, or god forbid WR (Ducet from LSU).

[hail2skins]

So what does it say about our receiving corps if the guy everyone wants out was the leading receiver on the team. He missed two games too. Didn't play against Philadelphia or Detroit. Second in receiving is Cooley who didn't miss a game. Third is El, and he missed one game.

I'm not ready to dismiss Moss yet especially since he has lead this team in receiving yards that last 3 years. Did his production drop off, yes. Some of it was his fault and some of it was the addition of other receivers/weapons so teams couldn't focus on him in the long and intermediate routes.

He and Collins got lucky with the jump balls that were completed. That's a 50/50 gamble right there and you can't live on them. You need to get Moss the ball in space a lot more than we do and then let him go long. That's why he was a beast in 2005.

We all know that Moss missed a lot of practice time this season with the groin and heel. They had to alter his cleat to get him back out on the field.

We also know that Jason missed him on several long passes and there were passes that Moss dropped. We had drops by a lot of receivers including El and Cooley.

What we need to finish our WR corps off, and we all know this, is a big tall possession type guy. Could Mix fulfill that role, I don't know but I'd love to see him get a chance.

[csquared]

Originally Posted by Battle Cat

I think all of what I just named is more important than trying to get rid of Santana Moss. C. Griffen (Some Hicktown, Alabama) is the only one that I might would consider keeping. And get Karlos Dansby (Birmingham, Alabama) as our only major free agent aquisition to take M. Washington's (Auburn, Alabama) place.

So do you think Santana Moss( who cares where is is from) should be paid in the upper teir of Wr's? C. Griffin(why do we keep inserting cities and states in quotes) is not a top tier dt and shouldnt be paid like one. Dansby(ok here we go again..) wouldnt be a bad pick up. Im sure anyone at this point can play better than M Washington(Im sure Alabama is nice and all). M Washington( fooled ya ha) seems like he is more interested in Dancing with the Stars...

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by hail2skins

So what does it say about our receiving corps if the guy everyone wants out was the leading receiver on the team. He missed two games too. Didn't play against Philadelphia or Detroit. Second in receiving is Cooley who didn't miss a game. Third is El, and he missed one game.

I'm not ready to dismiss Moss yet especially since he has lead this team in receiving yards that last 3 years. Did his production drop off, yes. Some of it was his fault and some of it was the addition of other receivers/weapons so teams couldn't focus on him in the long and intermediate routes.

He and Collins got lucky with the jump balls that were completed. That's a 50/50 gamble right there and you can't live on them. You need to get Moss the ball in space a lot more than we do and then let him go long. That's why he was a beast in 2005.

We all know that Moss missed a lot of practice time this season with the groin and heel. They had to alter his cleat to get him back out on the field.

We also know that Jason missed him on several long passes and there were passes that Moss dropped. We had drops by a lot of receivers including El and Cooley.

What we need to finish our WR corps off, and we all know this, is a big tall possession type guy. Could Mix fulfill that role, I don't know but I'd love to see him get a chance.

The only way I could agree with keeping Moss is if they go out and get a talented(vet or rookie) Flanker WR and give Moss one more year to get his crap together. If they have a chance to add a clearly more talented WR at the expense of Moss, I don't see how they could pass on it. Mix has potential, but he appears to be a long term project more than anything.