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  #91  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:00 PM
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4. Is it enough though? He's improved from below average to slightly above average. But can we wait for 5 years for him to become merely good?
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  #92  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:07 PM
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Haha, I realize that. And baby Jesus knows I want Jason Campbell to be our guy, but this talk of him being fairly impressive this week or "I expect 17 TDs from him next year which would be good" is very disappointing to me. If 29 passing TDs in two years is considered good, I don't want him to be our franchise guy.

So I'm advocating an open competition at QB (I'm not a start Colt guy) because if he IS the guy, it should be apparent and no harm done.
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  #93  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinsfaninNJ View Post
A few things on this:
1. We are a run first team. You want more TD's thrown, change the philosophy.

2. Here are a list of QB's who are in the playoffs or fighting for the playoffs that have thrown 17 or less TD's this season:
Pennington, Delhomme, Collins, Ferotte, Rothlisberger, Garcia, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Orton. Among that group is the QB's for the potential AFC East winner, the NFC South winner (#2 seed) and the top two teams in the AFC.

3. When you don't turn the ball over, TD's thrown matter less.

4. The point is he keeps improving. If he has peeked I would agree with you. For this year, he has demonstrated improvement.

Am I missing something, his stats are almost identical to last year. He has turned the ball over less, but through the last 7 games that has started to creep up to where he was last year. His game averages are just about the same.

In fact he has the same amount of TDs in 15 games as he did in 13 games last year. The only thing that has improved is how much he turns over the ball, which helped his QB rating go from 77 to 84. He has not improved in any other part of his game, in fact you can argue he has gotten worse in those other parts of his game by comparing last years stats to this years.

We know what we have. Last year we all said this was the make or break year for Campbell, now that this year is up we want to give him another make or break year???? What if he has another "pretty good" 8 games then falls off, do we extend the make or break year to 2010?

I know a lot was spent to get him and we don't want to just let go, but there needs to come a time we cut the chord. JC lead offenses have been atrocious, while a career back up came in last year and made the offense respectable. IMO, it needs to be an open competition in training camp may the best man win. I would even go so far as saying if the FO didn't think Colt or TC are anything but back up material, then bring in a FA QB that can push JC during the preseason. Competition brings out the best in people.

Last edited by FunBunch5 : 12-23-2008 at 12:39 PM.
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  #94  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:35 PM
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1. I don't care if we are a run-first team. At some point, I want our franchise QB to have the ability to win a few games by himself.

2. Roethlisberger has missed time. Pennington, Collins, Frerotte and Garcia are all not talked about as franchise QBs. They are just game managers there to allow a dominant defense and/or running game to develop. Roethlesberger and Orton missed time (and on top of that, I'm not sold on Orton being a franchise QB). Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are rookies. The only point you have is Delhomme and I'm not convinced Delhomme is all that great, JC can aspire to much better than him.

3. Granted, but turnovers matter less when you throw more TDs.

4. Is it enough though? He's improved from below average to slightly above average. But can we wait for 5 years for him to become merely good?
Above average is merely good for a QB in this league. 17 TD's and 6 INT's next year gets him in the Pro Bowl and without major injuries the team in the playoffs. The bottom line is we have designed our team as a run first team. A zebra can't change its stripes.

Just to go backwards for a second, some of the guys you are dismissing, specifically Pennington and Ryan are MVP candidates. You don't have to throw 27 TD's to be a great QB.

Just to show you that is not necessarily the best way to judge a QB, there are two young QB's that have thrown significantly more TD's than Campbell, that play with superior talent in weaker divisions that will probably have the same amount or less wins than Campbell. One plays for the Packers and the other the Broncos. You can also throw San Diego in there as well. As well as Rivers has played and with all that talent, where are they in the second worst division in football?
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  #95  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:46 PM
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Above average is merely good for a QB in this league. 17 TD's and 6 INT's next year gets him in the Pro Bowl and without major injuries the team in the playoffs. The bottom line is we have designed our team as a run first team. A zebra can't change its stripes.

Just to go backwards for a second, some of the guys you are dismissing, specifically Pennington and Ryan are MVP candidates. You don't have to throw 27 TD's to be a great QB.

Just to show you that is not necessarily the best way to judge a QB, there are two young QB's that have thrown significantly more TD's than Campbell, that play with superior talent in weaker divisions that will probably have the same amount or less wins than Campbell. One plays for the Packers and the other the Broncos. You can also throw San Diego in there as well. As well as Rivers has played and with all that talent, where are they in the second worst division in football?
If you throw JC on those three teams they would have been even worse than they are today, but if you gave the Redskins Rivers, Rodgers or Cutler the Skins would be in the playoffs if not fighting for a first round bye. The difference is those three teams do not have any defense. Granted I will give you our offensive talent is much less than SD, but not that much lower than Denver and GB.
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  #96  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:47 PM
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Am I missing something, his stats are almost identical to last year. He has turned the ball over less, but through the last 7 games that has started to creep up to where he was last year. His game averages are just about the same.

In fact he has the same amount of TDs in 15 games as he did in 13 games last year. The only thing that has improved is how much he turns over the ball, which helped his QB rating go from 77 to 84. He has not improved in any other part of his game, in fact you can argue he has gotten worse in those other parts of his game by comparing last years stats to this years.

We know what we have. Last year we all said this was the make or break year for Campbell, now that this year is up we want to give him another make or break year???? What if he has another "pretty good" 8 games then falls off, do we extend the make or break year to 2010?

I know a lot was spent to get him and we don't want to just let go, but there needs to come a time we cut the chord. JC lead offenses have been atrocious, while a career back up came in last year and made the offense respectable. IMO, it needs to be an open competition in training camp may the best man win. I would even go so far as saying if the FO didn't think Colt or TC are anything but back up material, then bring in a FA QB that can push JC during the preseason. Competition brings out the best in people.
You have to show me where he regressed.

Here are the stats through the same number of games in 2007 and 2008.
2007
TD's 12
INT's 11
Yards 2,700
Completion % 60%

2008
TD's 10
Int's 4
Yards 2,778
Completion % 63.8%

Never mind the fumbling problem he had last year that is not a problem this year.
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  #97  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:49 PM
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If you throw JC on those three teams they would have been even worse than they are today, but if you gave the Redskins Rivers, Rodgers or Cutler the Skins would be in the playoffs if not fighting for a first round bye. The difference is those three teams do not have any defense. Granted I will give you our offensive talent is much less than SD, but not that much lower than Denver and GB.
WHAT??????? You are telling me the Redskins have more talent than GB and SD??????????????

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  #98  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinsfaninNJ View Post
You have to show me where he regressed.

Here are the stats through the same number of games in 2007 and 2008.
2007
TD's 12
INT's 11
Yards 2,700
Completion % 60%

2008
TD's 10
Int's 4
Yards 2,778
Completion % 63.8%

Never mind the fumbling problem he had last year that is not a problem this year.
TD's isn't a regression? You call 78 more yards over 13 games improvement? That extra 78 yards ties into his improved completion percentage because it is his 1 extra 6 yard check down per game. Now extrapolate your data across 15 games and it shows JC's ypg is now lower than last years. The only improvement I have seen is in TOs. That is great, but it is not enough.

Last edited by FunBunch5 : 12-23-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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  #99  
Old 12-23-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinsfaninNJ View Post
WHAT??????? You are telling me the Redskins have more talent than GB and SD??????????????

Hi, welcome to earth.
Did I say that? I said the Redskins have a little less offensive talent then GB and Denver. Denver has no RB and Ryan Grant is no where near the back that Portis is. The Packers and Denver have better receivers. I don't watch enough of Denver and the Pack to know how good their OLs are.
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  #100  
Old 12-23-2008, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FunBunch5 View Post
TD's isn't a regression? You call 78 more yards over 13 games improvement? That extra 78 yards ties into his improved completion percentage because it is his 1 extra 6 yard check down per game. Now extrapolate your data across 15 games and it shows JC's ypg is now lower than last years. The only improvement I have seen is in TOs. That is great, but it is not enough.
Two less TDs in not a regression, and if you want to get technical he did throw 12 TD passes by that time but one was called back by a stupid personal foul by Heyer and Casey Rabach got TDs called back two times in a row for stupid penalties in the Dallas game. Campbell has been much better this year and it shows. If Randle El was capable of catching a pass and Cooley didnt have the fumble problems he had this year then are record would look a lot different.
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  #101  
Old 12-23-2008, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FunBunch5 View Post
TD's isn't a regression? You call 78 more yards over 13 games improvement? That extra 78 yards ties into his improved completion percentage because it is his 1 extra 6 yard check down per game. Now extrapolate your data across 15 games and it shows JC's ypg is now lower than last years. The only improvement I have seen is in TOs. That is great, but it is not enough.
His yards per game is down less than two yards from 207.7 in 2007 to 205.9 in 2008. His fumbles lost went from 8 in 2007 to 1 in 2008. He had 19 TO's last year and 7 this year. No credit for that?
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  #102  
Old 12-23-2008, 02:18 PM
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Two less TDs in not a regression, and if you want to get technical he did throw 12 TD passes by that time but one was called back by a stupid personal foul by Heyer and Casey Rabach got TDs called back two times in a row for stupid penalties in the Dallas game. Campbell has been much better this year and it shows. If Randle El was capable of catching a pass and Cooley didnt have the fumble problems he had this year then are record would look a lot different.
You are kidding me right? Staying the same is regression when you are suppose to be getting better. We had these same "ifs" last year. There is always something. You are as good as your record and Campbells stats look eerily the same as last year.
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  #103  
Old 12-23-2008, 02:25 PM
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His yards per game is down less than two yards from 207.7 in 2007 to 205.9 in 2008. His fumbles lost went from 8 in 2007 to 1 in 2008. He had 19 TO's last year and 7 this year. No credit for that?
Great, I need to praise JC because he is doing what he is suppose to be doing by taking care of the ball. This would be like saying a RB that rushed for 800 yds last year and had 10 fumbles, rushed for 800 yards this year and had 1 fumble. The problem is he is still rushing for 800 yards. The problem with Campbell is he is still not moving this offense.

Like I said in my previous post there is improvement from Campbell taking care of the ball, but it is not good enough because there is no improvement anywhere else. Outside of TOs we have pretty much the same exact stats as the year before.
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  #104  
Old 12-23-2008, 02:28 PM
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You are kidding me right? Staying the same is regression when you are suppose to be getting better. We had these same "ifs" last year. There is always something. You are as good as your record and Campbells stats look eerily the same as last year.
Staying the same is regression? So basically your saying guys like Cooley and Portis who constantly put up the same numbers year after year are regressing?
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  #105  
Old 12-23-2008, 02:34 PM
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Great, I need to praise JC because he is doing what he is suppose to be doing by taking care of the ball. This would be like saying a RB that rushed for 800 yds last year and had 10 fumbles, rushed for 800 yards this year and had 1 fumble. The problem is he is still rushing for 800 yards. The problem with Campbell is he is still not moving this offense.

Like I said in my previous post there is improvement from Campbell taking care of the ball, but it is not good enough because there is no improvement anywhere else. Outside of TOs we have pretty much the same exact stats as the year before.
Your one of those guys that believes you do not need recievers who can catch or an OL that can block to be succesful correct?
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