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  #46  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:30 PM
skin4ever skin4ever is offline
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Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
Oh hey, you're totally right. We're so close to a championship and all we need is one of the twenty Joe Montanas that are going to be in the draft. Absolutely.

This team is years away from a championship because this roster needs to be five years younger across the board and that's not happening with these players. When you get a good set of offensive linemen, receivers, and running backs, then you can plug in a quarterback and have a great offense. Face it: these players suck and even a great quarterback wouldn't be great if he had to work with them.
Hopefully i read your post with sarcasm glasses on...and in that light.
Isnt it the rule of thumb that for any franchise you start with the QB and move out from the ball. I dont think you can ever just plug in a QB. A Qb's talents or skills should compliment the offense that is ran. MO is that JC is not suited for this style of offense. Plus whose to say we dont get a stud QB through the FA or draft or one who is already on the team. All i know is i would rather see someone else give it a go next season, or at least let JC know there is an open competition for QB so he can earn it. JC hasnt progressed at all since he signed with the skins.

KEINO, i dont know how to do the multiple quote thing yet, but...

Sure he stands tall in the pocket, and sure the offensive line is not as good as it should be(nor the WR's), but from the games i watched, JC still fails to make routine throws when he does have the time and his WR's are open. He seems to wait till the WR's have a 10 yard window to throw through. He does not have his head on a swivel as he drops back, but chooses to lock onto a WR until the dire moments. As for the WR's dropping balls, it happens, but it will happen more often than not when a QB doesnt put the ball where it should be and forces a 5 foot 9 inch WR to jump for a ball like he was Kevin Garnett.(we dont have steve smith on our team). Zorn is probably not going anywhere, so whose next in line to see if his offense can work and the team can score points....Campbell. The Qb gets all the glory and takes all the blame. IMO, Its time we see if someone else can do it.
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by skin4ever View Post
Hopefully i read your post with sarcasm glasses on...and in that light.
Isnt it the rule of thumb that for any franchise you start with the QB and move out from the ball. I dont think you can ever just plug in a QB. A Qb's talents or skills should compliment the offense that is ran. MO is that JC is not suited for this style of offense. Plus whose to say we dont get a stud QB through the FA or draft or one who is already on the team. All i know is i would rather see someone else give it a go next season, or at least let JC know there is an open competition for QB so he can earn it. JC hasnt progressed at all since he signed with the skins.

KEINO, i dont know how to do the multiple quote thing yet, but...

Sure he stands tall in the pocket, and sure the offensive line is not as good as it should be(nor the WR's), but from the games i watched, JC still fails to make routine throws when he does have the time and his WR's are open. He seems to wait till the WR's have a 10 yard window to throw through. He does not have his head on a swivel as he drops back, but chooses to lock onto a WR until the dire moments. As for the WR's dropping balls, it happens, but it will happen more often than not when a QB doesnt put the ball where it should be and forces a 5 foot 9 inch WR to jump for a ball like he was Kevin Garnett.(we dont have steve smith on our team). Zorn is probably not going anywhere, so whose next in line to see if his offense can work and the team can score points....Campbell. The Qb gets all the glory and takes all the blame. IMO, Its time we see if someone else can do it.
there needs to be a more realistic competition next season at qb. that includes...

1 veteran qb who is actually familiar with the WCO.. he should fight it out with collins for one back up spot

2. JC... gets first crack at the position, but it is not guaranteed, but performance based. he gets until the bye week to show REAL improvement

3. colt brennan gets another year to try to move up to number 2

any talk of a contract extension for JC is put on hold until the end of next year
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  #48  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by skin4ever View Post
Hopefully i read your post with sarcasm glasses on...and in that light.
Isnt it the rule of thumb that for any franchise you start with the QB and move out from the ball. I dont think you can ever just plug in a QB. A Qb's talents or skills should compliment the offense that is ran. MO is that JC is not suited for this style of offense. Plus whose to say we dont get a stud QB through the FA or draft or one who is already on the team. All i know is i would rather see someone else give it a go next season, or at least let JC know there is an open competition for QB so he can earn it. JC hasnt progressed at all since he signed with the skins.
My point is that a quarterback can't perform well if the pieces around him are underperforming or just aren't there. How well do you think Peyton Manning would do with our pass protection or having to throw to Moss instead of Harrison and Wayne?
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  #49  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:39 PM
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Jay Cutler did nothing but QB his team to a collapse the same way Campbell did and Eli has completely fallen apart since Plaxico shot himself. Matt Ryan is the exception to the rule, he is damn good and was damn good at Boston College.
Thats what happens when you have to start your 7th RB due to injuries. But i like his aggressiveness. You never know whats going to happen unless you take those shots and see the outcome. I dont think Campbell should just throw the ball all over the field without regard to the consequences, but he needs to be more accurate and throw the ball in some tight places. If he did that, i think his confidence to make those throws would do greatly toward his confidence. But since he wont, we will continue to watch a marginal QB performance.

I just think Campbell is not suited for the style of offense that is being run, and if thats the case, it may make a helluva lot more sense to bring someone in who is(or may be) effective under this offense than change the scheme to such a degree that it no longer is the offense being run(if that makes sense).
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  #50  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
My point is that a quarterback can't perform well if the pieces around him are underperforming or just aren't there. How well do you think Peyton Manning would do with our pass protection or having to throw to Moss instead of Harrison and Wayne?
you are joking, right ? peyton is an all time great, who is destined for the HOF. at the absolute worst, PM would have Sonny or Marino like individual numbers.
JC and PM should not even be mentioned in the same sentence together.

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Originally Posted by skin4ever View Post
Thats what happens when you have to start your 7th RB due to injuries. But i like his aggressiveness. You never know whats going to happen unless you take those shots and see the outcome. I dont think Campbell should just throw the ball all over the field without regard to the consequences, but he needs to be more accurate and throw the ball in some tight places. If he did that, i think his confidence to make those throws would do greatly toward his confidence. But since he wont, we will continue to watch a marginal QB performance.

I just think Campbell is not suited for the style of offense that is being run, and if thats the case, it may make a helluva lot more sense to bring someone in who is(or may be) effective under this offense than change the scheme to such a degree that it no longer is the offense being run(if that makes sense).
a good point..JC is a very poor choice for the apparent scheme that zorn wants to run (who knows what it actually is ??) based upon his skill set.
i think that zorn will have to change his scheme before he can change the way JC plays qb.

and again, JC isnt close to the qb that cutler is..
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  #51  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:45 PM
skin4ever skin4ever is offline
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Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
My point is that a quarterback can't perform well if the pieces around him are underperforming or just aren't there. How well do you think Peyton Manning would do with our pass protection or having to throw to Moss instead of Harrison and Wayne?
I will give you all of that but that should not excuse his lack of progression and his continued ineffectiveness. Otherwise, we could go in circles all day long, you say the WR's and oline are the problem, i would say that when the Oline does its job and the WR gets open, JC throws a bad pass. and the Circle continues. At some point, each individual should be held accountable, and since this particular discussion on this thread is JC, i am holding him accountable.
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  #52  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shally View Post
you are joking, right ? peyton is an all time great, who is destined for the HOF. at the absolute worst, PM would have Sonny or Marino like individual numbers.
JC and PM should not even be mentioned in the same sentence together.



a good point..JC is a very poor choice for the apparent scheme that zorn wants to run (who knows what it actually is ??) based upon his skill set.
i think that zorn will have to change his scheme before he can change the way JC plays qb.

and again, JC isnt close to the qb that cutler is..
of course Cutler is going to be way ahead of JC. Cutler has been using the same system since he came in the league.
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  #53  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:54 PM
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of course Cutler is going to be way ahead of JC. Cutler has been using the same system since he came in the league.
how about saying that cutler is just a far better quarterback ? enough of the excuses. cutler was successful at Vandy, for goodness sakes..
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  #54  
Old 12-29-2008, 12:56 PM
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What bothers me is that list, which I agree with, because:

1. We will never cut down to those guys.
2. We should, and that's what any competent GM would do. Portis is untradeable due to salary, everyone else should be traded for what you can.
3. Frankly, I'm not sold on Campbell. Not all his fault, but I'd deal him too. He is just too slow reading, too slow releasing, despite showing ability.
4. Less than 20 quality players on a 50+ man roster, 1 viable young lineman, maybe 2, not a single young DE, only 1 solid DT. Nothing in trenches. It is a sickening indictment of our FO. And it won't change.
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  #55  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
What bothers me is that list, which I agree with, because:

1. We will never cut down to those guys.
2. We should, and that's what any competent GM would do. Portis is untradeable due to salary, everyone else should be traded for what you can.
3. Frankly, I'm not sold on Campbell. Not all his fault, but I'd deal him too. He is just too slow reading, too slow releasing, despite showing ability.
4. Less than 20 quality players on a 50+ man roster, 1 viable young lineman, maybe 2, not a single young DE, only 1 solid DT. Nothing in trenches. It is a sickening indictment of our FO. And it won't change.
again i agree.. i see us as a lot more likely to go 4-12 next season, than 12-4.

show me any reason for real optimism with this OLD roster
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  #56  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:04 PM
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again i agree.. i see us as a lot more likely to go 4-12 next season, than 12-4.

show me any reason for real optimism with this OLD roster
Colt Brennan cured cancer.
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  #57  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:05 PM
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how about saying that cutler is just a far better quarterback ? enough of the excuses. cutler was successful at Vandy, for goodness sakes..
What makes him a better QB? Seems to me he just guided his team to the same record JC guided the Skins to. I think we can all agree that he has better weapons available in the passing game. Brandon Marshall might just be one of the best WRs in the game and Eddie Royal has shown exponentially more than either of our rookies and is a better returner than Rock/Randle-el. In fact Royal has more catches than our 2 Rooks and Randle-El combined.

It's not excuses to point out that Cutler has had a certain continuity that JC hasn't had and has MUCH better weapons. Both QBs looked all world until their help fell apart around them......


Personally, I don't look for my QB to win me games, just don't lose them. JC has more than proven he is capable of this.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #58  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:08 PM
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you are joking, right ? peyton is an all time great, who is destined for the HOF. at the absolute worst, PM would have Sonny or Marino like individual numbers.
JC and PM should not even be mentioned in the same sentence together.
Not comparing them, just saying that Manning wouldn't exactly light it up in this offense either. He's a great quarterback with great players around him - we have a (currently) average quarterback with worn-down, overpaid players around him and the result is a bad offense.
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  #59  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:11 PM
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Colt Brennan cured cancer.
did i even suggest brennan as starter

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What makes him a better QB? Seems to me he just guided his team to the same record JC guided the Skins to. I think we can all agree that he has better weapons available in the passing game. Brandon Marshall might just be one of the best WRs in the game and Eddie Royal has shown exponentially more than either of our rookies and is a better returner than Rock/Randle-el. In fact Royal has more catches than our 2 Rooks and Randle-El combined.

It's not excuses to point out that Cutler has had a certain continuity that JC hasn't had and has MUCH better weapons. Both QBs looked all world until their help fell apart around them......


Personally, I don't look for my QB to win me games, just don't lose them. JC has more than proven he is capable of this.
see what you want to see. believe what you want to believe.. you think that if the broncos put cutler on the market tomorrow the list of teams offering the moon wouldnt be overwhelming ?
how about JC ? what would he fetch ?

if you think that JC and cutler are equal, you are deluding yourself.. then again, if all you want from your qb is NOT to lose games for you, you probably have your man..
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Last edited by shally : 12-29-2008 at 01:13 PM.
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  #60  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:12 PM
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Not comparing them, just saying that Manning wouldn't exactly light it up in this offense either. He's a great quarterback with great players around him - we have a (currently) average quarterback with worn-down, overpaid players around him and the result is a bad offense.
peyton makes EVERYBODY around him look better, including the coaching staff.
he is a qb for the ages.

who does JC make look better ?
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