Portis Has Words for Riggo

[HanburgerBum]

Two great RBs both looking bad sniping at each other.

Riggo and Clinton are both stud RBs each with a heart as big as a mountain--Portis is a little more nifty, Riggo is more powerful. Riggo vitually never fumbled (I think less than 10 times his entire career). Clinton isn't bad either in that department, but certainly has more career fumbles than John.

Both are outspoken. But the difference is that John was smarter with his words and Portis is, I am sorry, DUMB with his. You will never catch Riggins saying anything negative about his teammates, directly or indirectly. Clinton may not have meant to slam his Oline, but he should have known how some people will construe his remarks about Riggo playing behind a better Oline. And, this is not the first time Portis has implied something negative about teammates that block for him. Of course, this current Oline is no where near as good as the Hogs. But, how is Clinton saying that in public going to help him or the team?

It is too bad that Chris Samuels doesn't seem to be a fiery leader like Russ Grimm was. I wish Chris would slam Portis up against a wall and read him the riot act. You moron, you don't ever publicly suggest your teammates aren't doing the job! Next time you carry the ball, you try it without any blocking and see how many yards you gain! I know Russ would have taken Riggo to the woodshed if John ever said anything like what Clinton has said.

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by Keino

Brian Mitchell called. He said that he is the poster boy for setting records during team futility.

Rich, without Portis we don't have some of success we have had this decade. In fact, I can honestly say that my happiest moments a Skins fan this decade were created by either Portis or the late Sean Taylor. And again, you make Portis' point for him. The Hogs are the poster children for the decade of success, you justincorrectly attribute it to Riggins when he only contributed to 1/3 of the Redskins' superbowls. The Hogs as I recall were there for all 3.

I said that Riggins was the poster boy for what was the beginning of an era of dominance, not that he was there throughout that era. Riggins was a part of the Hogs and they together climbed that mountain. Riggo retired and the Hogs kept the legacy going, even changing a few players over the years.

[MDBluefinCrab]

Originally Posted by shally

call them out in private if you need to, not in public.. that is just dumb

And yet, he keeps saying the same dumbs things for how many years now?

[Keino]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

I said that Riggins was the poster boy for what was the beginning of an era of dominance, not that he was there throughout that era. Riggins was a part of the Hogs and they together climbed that mountain. Riggo retired and the Hogs kept the legacy going, even changing a few players over the years.

Well I tend to put the guys who were there for the entire era of dominance on my poster, but that's me.

[SkinsKY]

I don't really agree with Portis speaking out like he did (I rarely do), but it's not like he hasn't given to this team. In my opinion, you have two guys who have paid their dues. They're big enough boys to take whatever shots get thrown at them.

[wewantdallas]

Originally Posted by Keino

Well I tend to put the guys who were there for the entire era of dominance on my poster, but that's me.

You (and Portis) talk about the Hogs' importance in Riggo's success (and the Redskins' success) and absolutely, rightly so. But the problem here is when that's used to somehow diminish what Riggins accomplished.

It's an easy question to sort out, and the answer has nothing to do with the speculation of fans on a message board. Just ask the Hogs TODAY about what they think of John Riggins and his abilities. They, to a MAN, are almost in AWE of the guy, even still. Jacoby, Grimm, Warren, May, Starke, Bostic ... all those guys I have personally seen talking about Riggins and what he meant to the team, and there is not ONE of them who even gives a HINT that suggests, "Oh, well, without us, he would've been mediocre at best." They still speak about the guy in reverent tones. That's why they MADE THE GUY A HOG, because they knew that they were as dependent on him as he was on them.

And what's this about Riggins "quitting on the team"? Where does that come from? If that's a reference to him sitting out that one season, then that's absolutely, patently RIDICULOUS to suggest that's him "quitting" on his teammates. But maybe I missed something there.

In fact, he CARRIED that team to a title, starting with his "Just give me the ball" demand to Gibbs that postseason.

Portis has been a huge force for us, and he's definitely been responsible for a lot of our "success" (if you can call it that) over his time here. I love his play on the field, love his "give it everything you have" mentality, and he's one of the most talented (maybe THE most) backs this team has ever had. If we had miraculously made it to the Super Bowl in 2005, I think his run against the Eagles that year at the end of the season, where he ran around the end and dove into the end zone in spectacular fashion, would've been a "poster" moment of that team.

But if Portis wants to REALLY supplant Riggins in Redskins history, he's going to have to do more than beat him in the numbers game. He's going to have to grab the heart of the fanbase and the heart of the team. He's going to have to find his own "Just give me the ball" moment and take the team on his shoulders like Riggo did. Personally, I don't think he has THAT in him, and that's why I don't think he'll EVER be as important a back to Redskins history as Riggins was.

That said, I would be happy to see him prove me wrong.

[shally]

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

You (and Portis) talk about the Hogs' importance in Riggo's success (and the Redskins' success) and absolutely, rightly so. But the problem here is when that's used to somehow diminish what Riggins accomplished.

It's an easy question to sort out, and the answer has nothing to do with the speculation of fans on a message board. Just ask the Hogs TODAY about what they think of John Riggins and his abilities. They, to a MAN, are almost in AWE of the guy, even still. Jacoby, Grimm, Warren, May, Starke, Bostic ... all those guys I have personally seen talking about Riggins and what he meant to the team, and there is not ONE of them who even gives a HINT that suggests, "Oh, well, without us, he would've been mediocre at best." They still speak about the guy in reverent tones. That's why they MADE THE GUY A HOG, because they knew that they were as dependent on him as he was on them.

And what's this about Riggins "quitting on the team"? Where does that come from? If that's a reference to him sitting out that one season, then that's absolutely, patently RIDICULOUS to suggest that's him "quitting" on his teammates. But maybe I missed something there.

In fact, he CARRIED that team to a title, starting with his "Just give me the ball" demand to Gibbs that postseason.

Portis has been a huge force for us, and he's definitely been responsible for a lot of our "success" (if you can call it that) over his time here. I love his play on the field, love his "give it everything you have" mentality, and he's one of the most talented (maybe THE most) backs this team has ever had. If we had miraculously made it to the Super Bowl in 2005, I think his run against the Eagles that year at the end of the season, where he ran around the end and dove into the end zone in spectacular fashion, would've been a "poster" moment of that team.

But if Portis wants to REALLY supplant Riggins in Redskins history, he's going to have to do more than beat him in the numbers game. He's going to have to grab the heart of the fanbase and the heart of the team. He's going to have to find his own "Just give me the ball" moment and take the team on his shoulders like Riggo did. Personally, I don't think he has THAT in him, and that's why I don't think he'll EVER be as important a back to Redskins history as Riggins was.

That said, I would be happy to see him prove me wrong.

actually, Portis DID have his own give me the ball moment.. he carried the team during Gibbs2.0 first playoff run when they had that 5 game winning streak.. problem was, the rest of the team couldnt sustain his effort

[Keino]

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

And what's this about Riggins "quitting on the team"? Where does that come from? If that's a reference to him sitting out that one season, then that's absolutely, patently RIDICULOUS to suggest that's him "quitting" on his teammates. But maybe I missed something there.

Yes, that is exactly what it was in reference to. I'd love to know how it was ridiculous to suggest that he quit on his teammates.

We won 2 SBs without Riggo, but we had the Hogs for all 3. That doesn't diminish his importance to the 82 team, but it certainly does diminish his importance to the era.

[wewantdallas]

Originally Posted by Keino

Yes, that is exactly what it was in reference to. I'd love to know how it was ridiculous to suggest that he quit on his teammates.

We won 2 SBs without Riggo, but we had the Hogs for all 3. That doesn't diminish his importance to the 82 team, but it certainly does diminish his importance to the era.

Come on, you really believe a guy sitting out a season in the hopes of getting a better contract is "quitting on his team"? I don't buy that for a second.

Santana Moss taking himself out of a game in Green Bay after sucking is quitting on your team. Beginning a holdout during training camp to better your economic station in life when you think you have a bad deal is something that ALL NFL players can relate to, which is why you rarely hear them criticizing their peers when they're holding out.

In no way did Riggins ever quit on his team in a manner that should be considered cowardly or morally suspect, which is how your comment felt to me as I read it.

As for the last comment, I totally agree, and that's all I'm saying. I don't think Riggo was THE GUY for the entire era of Redskins domination. But I also don't think that saying "anyone could've done what Riggins did with the Hogs as your line" is anywhere close to being accurate, which is what Portis was suggesting. Besides, as I said, Riggo WAS a Hog, the ONLY running back to ever be granted that title. They knew how good he was.

And btw, I think Riggo TODAY is very often a total tool, an aging guy who still wants that taste of glory, and so he says things he knows will be deemed controversial. I don't even blame Portis for firing back a little, but I think his insinuation about the Hogs making Riggins is ridiculous. They made each other. Anyone who watched it happen knows that's the truth.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Come on, you really believe a guy sitting out a season in the hopes of getting a better contract is "quitting on his team"? I don't buy that for a second.

Santana Moss taking himself out of a game in Green Bay after sucking is quitting on your team. Beginning a holdout during training camp to better your economic station in life when you think you have a bad deal is something that ALL NFL players can relate to, which is why you rarely hear them criticizing their peers when they're holding out.

In no way did Riggins ever quit on his team in a manner that should be considered cowardly or morally suspect, which is how your comment felt to me as I read it.

As for the last comment, I totally agree, and that's all I'm saying. I don't think Riggo was THE GUY for the entire era of Redskins domination. But I also don't think that saying "anyone could've done what Riggins did with the Hogs as your line" is anywhere close to being accurate, which is what Portis was suggesting. Besides, as I said, Riggo WAS a Hog, the ONLY running back to ever be granted that title. They knew how good he was.

And btw, I think Riggo TODAY is very often a total tool, an aging guy who still wants that taste of glory, and so he says things he knows will be deemed controversial. I don't even blame Portis for firing back a little, but I think his insinuation about the Hogs making Riggins is ridiculous. They made each other. Anyone who watched it happen knows that's the truth.

When the team had finished 10-6 the year before, he waited until the following July to announce his "retirement" due to the unhappiness with his contract. The team was relying on him and he quit. They went 6-10, ultimately costing Jack Pardee his job. Wilbur Jackson and Clarence Harmon were who we were left with.

And that is not what Portis said. He said Riggo was a great player but also had great players around him. That is not remotely close to saying that the team could have put anyone there and been successful.

Santana Moss' gutlessness is well documented and not relevant to this discussion at all.

Fact is, too many fans give Riggo far more credit for our 80s dominance than he deserves. Nothing Portis said was untrue. Ask Timmy Smith.

[skin4ever]

Originally Posted by shally

actually, Portis DID have his own give me the ball moment.. he carried the team during Gibbs2.0 first playoff run when they had that 5 game winning streak.. problem was, the rest of the team couldnt sustain his effort

that and last season in the SF game, too. But i like your version better.lol

[wewantdallas]

Originally Posted by Keino

When the team had finished 10-6 the year before, he waited until the following July to announce his "retirement" due to the unhappiness with his contract. The team was relying on him and he quit.

Give me a break. These guys aren't fighting the Holy Crusades or the Vietnam War here. This is still a business. He did what he thought was best for him and his family (which it turned out wasn't). He's also on record as saying he was just completely burned out and that the loss in '79 to the 'boys had taken just about everything out of him. Even if he HAD come back, he wouldn't have been the same. He quit the team. He didn't "quit on his team." There's a Rosie O'Donnell-sized difference there.

Originally Posted by Keino

They went 6-10, ultimately costing Jack Pardee his job. Wilbur Jackson and Clarence Harmon were who we were left with.

Jack Pardee didn't lose his job because Riggins left. He lost it because he sucked as a head coach. He had a long history of late season collapses as a coach, which continued when he went to Houston. Would a healthy, invigorated Riggins have helped? Sure. But not much. Pardee would've still lost his job.

Originally Posted by Keino

And that is not what Portis said. He said Riggo was a great player but also had great players around him. That is not remotely close to saying that the team could have put anyone there and been successful.

Yeah, I'd say it's "remotely close." In fact, I'd say it was EXACTLY what Portis was trying to infer to "get back" at Riggins for his comments. It's grade school stuff. Or, as my dad used to say, "Bush league."

But no, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure Portis just meant to say, out of the blue and to be taken at totally face-value: "John Riggins was a great player who had great players around him." Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't meant to imply anything beneath the surface given the context of his comments. I think I'm overusing the phrase, so at this point, I'll just say: TITLE OF NELL CARTER SITCOM FROM THE 1980s!

Originally Posted by Keino

Santana Moss' gutlessness is well documented and not relevant to this discussion at all.

It's totally and obviously relevant when you're talking about the definition of someone "quitting on their team." One IS the definition, one isn't. Case closed.

Originally Posted by Keino

Fact is, too many fans give Riggo far more credit for our 80s dominance than he deserves. Nothing Portis said was untrue. Ask Timmy Smith.

Talk about irrelevant to the discussion. What would I ask Timmy Smith about what it was like to set a league TD record? What would I ask Timmy Smith about what it was like to bash his way through the NFC playoffs against some of the toughest mofos that played the game? What would I ask Timmy Smith about consistency, toughness week in and week out, being a team leader, playing through back injuries that would debilitate most men?

Timmy Smith.

Please.

I love the dude for that game, but that hardly gave him the right to speak on anything regarding great running backs like Riggins AND Portis.

[skin4ever]

Originally Posted by Keino

When the team had finished 10-6 the year before, he waited until the following July to announce his "retirement" due to the unhappiness with his contract. The team was relying on him and he quit. They went 6-10, ultimately costing Jack Pardee his job. Wilbur Jackson and Clarence Harmon were who we were left with.

And that is not what Portis said. He said Riggo was a great player but also had great players around him. That is not remotely close to saying that the team could have put anyone there and been successful.

Santana Moss' gutlessness is well documented and not relevant to this discussion at all.

Fact is, too many fans give Riggo far more credit for our 80s dominance than he deserves. Nothing Portis said was untrue. Ask Timmy Smith.

I dont know enough about the Riggo years to say one way or the other, but I do know that Riggo is revered as a Skin along with the Hogs. He is spoken of as if he was folklore like William Wallace shooting lightening bolts out of his arse. Hes associated and included with the dominant and (created) historied Skins franchise. As of today, Portis ultimately has nothing to show, but tough on field play, costumes and a bad habit of talking to the public. But probably wouldnt be remembered as Riggo is. ONly player I think who will be spoken of as legend was Sean Taylor.

[csquared]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

Portis has never been a good teammate. He has called out his coaches, his linemen, playcalling... He absolutely hates practice and complains when ever he is asked to do something.

I don't care how good he thinks he is or how he gives 100% in games. I expect that from anybody, as a professional.

I wouldn't want him on my team if I was a coach or a teammate. Period. He is a divider.

Everyone knows this is what i feel as well.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Give me a break. These guys aren't fighting the Holy Crusades or the Vietnam War here. This is still a business. He did what he thought was best for him and his family (which it turned out wasn't). He's also on record as saying he was just completely burned out and that the loss in '79 to the 'boys had taken just about everything out of him. Even if he HAD come back, he wouldn't have been the same. He quit the team. He didn't "quit on his team." There's a Rosie O'Donnell-sized difference there.

But had the team given in to his contract demand, he would have miraculously not been burned out? LOL. When players hold out for more money, even sitting out whole seasons they are typically portrayed as selfish and not team oriented. I get why Riggins gets a pass, he more than made up for it, but lets not revise history. Please. He quit because he didn't get the money he wanted leaving his teammates hanging (and don't gloss over the July announcement either).

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Jack Pardee didn't lose his job because Riggins left. He lost it because he sucked as a head coach. He had a long history of late season collapses as a coach, which continued when he went to Houston. Would a healthy, invigorated Riggins have helped? Sure. But not much. Pardee would've still lost his job.

Pardee lost his job for taking a 10-6 team to 6-10, which is what I said. Certainly not having his RB was a contributing factor in that. As it turns out, I am glad that he got fired, because a little known offensive assistant named Joe Gibbs got hired in his place.

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Yeah, I'd say it's "remotely close." In fact, I'd say it was EXACTLY what Portis was trying to infer to "get back" at Riggins for his comments. It's grade school stuff. Or, as my dad used to say, "Bush league."

But no, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure Portis just meant to say, out of the blue and to be taken at totally face-value: "John Riggins was a great player who had great players around him." Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't meant to imply anything beneath the surface given the context of his comments. I think I'm overusing the phrase, so at this point, I'll just say: TITLE OF NELL CARTER SITCOM FROM THE 1980s!

Exact quote was :

Originally Posted by Portis

And I think he was a great running back, but think of who else was around, you know? Really not hard to be a great running back when you've got all that talent and help around you. I think they just had great teams, you know? I think everybody who played in that era as a running back was big around here, so it really ain't no ill will. I'm minding my business, and hopefully he'll do the same, and if I do break the record, then the day that that time come, it won't be all of the sudden oh the hell with him.

He didn't imply anything. He flat out said it. I stand corrected but maintain that he spoke nothing untrue above.

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

It's totally and obviously relevant when you're talking about the definition of someone "quitting on their team." One IS the definition, one isn't. Case closed.

Both are examples, the difference being one occurred between the lines. Riggo still quit on the team no matter how you want to slice it.

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Talk about irrelevant to the discussion. What would I ask Timmy Smith about what it was like to set a league TD record? What would I ask Timmy Smith about what it was like to bash his way through the NFC playoffs against some of the toughest mofos that played the game? What would I ask Timmy Smith about consistency, toughness week in and week out, being a team leader, playing through back injuries that would debilitate most men?

Timmy Smith.

Totally relevant when talking about sticking anyone behind a great offensive line. As has been pointed out numerous times, the Hogs and Monk were the only constants on all 3 rings. Timmy Smith set a Superbowl record behind that offensive line. Were he not overshadowed by Doug's courageous performance in the 2nd quarter he would've been SB MVP. It can certainly be argued he performed better than Riggo in his, which again brings us back to the point of sticking anyone in the backfield when the rest of the team is great.

Originally Posted by wewantdallas

Please.

I love the dude for that game, but that hardly gave him the right to speak on anything regarding great running backs like Riggins AND Portis.

Timmy Smith never actually commented, I was just citing him as evidence of the truth of Portis' statement and piggy-backing on true_oracle's comment from earlier.