What's available?

[KMDeMuth]

Rather then arguing over the QB situation, can we agree on any of this?

Jason does not fit this offense, slow release, slow at making decisions, makes bad decisions under pressure and has a fear of running.

The offensive line can not block or protect and Campbell doesn't have time.

I don't believe JC is a 'bad' QB. I think he is an average starting QB in the NFL. (and i just lost half the people reading this...ha ha) He is a QB who needs time to make decisions and when he makes bad decisions, he is mentally out of it the rest of the game. The O-line can not give him time, he doesn't fit the offense and he can't mentally adapt enough to make up for his lack of a physical fit in this "system." (not his fault he has coaches, a line and a system he doesn't fit with, but he sure is bad in it)

Anyway, Short-term fix is someone who makes up for what he can't do...
-Quick release
-Quick decision making
-Sound decisions (throw it away, run the ball, tuck it in and take the sack)
-Doesnt get screwed up when he makes poor decisions (ask his college coaches?)
___________________

Do you think Collins is enough of an improvement just because he makes better decisions and doesn't get screwed up mentally?...he is a veteran.

Should we cut Wynn 'again' and bring in Jeff Garcia who makes up for a bit more in this system then Collins does? (but makes more mistakes)

Is there any other veterans available?

Should we bring in chase from the practice squad of the saints? (if we even can)

Some people on ES are even recommending we let the Jason Campbell clone on the PS play... (i'd guess a lot more issues would come from that...)

Do we stick with Campbell knowing what we know? (again, i like the guy, but the geniuses upstairs brought in an offensive scheme that doesn't fit him or 90% of the players and ignored the O-line)

Its past the trade deadline, limited options and no real "quick fix" but at-least they could make it less painful. Should the skins not mess with the QB situation and go shopping for young O-line on practice squads around the league?
___________________

Another Question... It was said in the past few weeks that in a "true" west-coast offense the receivers run a route and 'stop.' The QB goes through a quick read of his options and makes a quick decision. It was noted that Redskins receivers did not 'stop' which further hurt the processes and decisions being made. Did anyone notice a change in how receivers played tonight, do you think sherm. is working on that if its an issue?

[bigcmr]

You know what after tonight Im convinced JC will never work here. Its just time to move on. Too bad Colt is on IR atleast we might see what he can bring.

[KMDeMuth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c2zYyQmzv4
What i mean by route problems. Someone i had watched was talking about the west-coast offense, routes and QB decisions. Said sherm. noticed when he got here that the Redskins receivers don't run routes properly and the QB's aren't making decisions properly when receivers change the motion in their routes. Fundamental problems with the system and personnel not executing.

I understand there are different versions of the west-coast, but are the problems more then the O-line and QB. Are the receivers not executing the fundamentals of the west-coast system?

[Brokenstriker]

Your list of things that are needed to address Campbell's weaknesses needs to include "accurate passes," "make all the 'throws'," and "make something out of nothing."

His inaccuracy neuters the potential of the passing game because the receivers have to break out of their route and adjust to attempt to catch passes that are behind them, or too high, killing the potential of yards after catch ... as well as kills drives due to incompletions

He appears to limit the definition of "open" to include the ability to connect with line-of-sight only, flat trajectory passes. He seems to ignore open receivers behind the coverage ... and he simply can not throw a fade

I think there is a longer list of people who think that JC is not a good QB.

Thanks to our GM ... No there isn't anything better on the roster. Unless Garcia has completely decayed over the past year (which is possible) he is an infinitely better option than Campbell for a West Coast offensive scheme. Bringing him in now though in mid season doesn't really offer much of an up-side. Begs the question, "why didn't the Skins take a long look at, and sign Garcia this past pre-season?" It was clear Campbell wasn't clicking last year, or in pre-season and its been clear that Campbell is the antithesis of a West Coast QB to virtually everyone not working in an executive office at Redskins Park since somebody decided that's what the Redskins offense "should" play.

Personal view is the Redskins are looking at too many "complete" roster shortcomings to correct in a year ... and probably too many to correct in 2 or 3 years without a complete and comprehensive plan to systematically recreate the team (see the approach that the Capitals took to go from terminally mediocre to consistently at the top of the league). Hope that this will happen but doubt that Snyder will replace Cerrato or face up to the fact that he has taken the Redskins to such depths that its time for a drastic and multi-year effort to try to raise the Skins from the ashes.

[Brokenstriker]

oh ... and how about the "west coast offense" with its reliance on throwing 3 yard passes to convert on 3rd and 5 ... how about this entire package of passe NFL football schema be 5h|t-canned? Don't see the best teams in the 21st century playing this game (Saints, Patriots, Packers, Vikings, Broncos).

So sad ... Snyder is like some small town wanna be collecting all of the fad-gear he can get his hands on and always 10 years out of fashion ... west coast offense was unveiled in the early 80's and requires precise route running and accurate passing to allow the receivers to run with the ball after short completions. Defenses have had >25 years to adjust and game plan to deal with this (read how to play defense by Parcells) ... and even so ... "precise route running and accurate passing" ... 'nuf said.

[nicefellow31]

Originally Posted by Brokenstriker

oh ... and how about the "west coast offense" with its reliance on throwing 3 yard passes to convert on 3rd and 5 ... how about this entire package of passe NFL football schema be 5h|t-canned? Don't see the best teams in the 21st century playing this game (Saints, Patriots, Packers, Vikings, Broncos).

So sad ... Snyder is like some small town wanna be collecting all of the fad-gear he can get his hands on and always 10 years out of fashion ... west coast offense was unveiled in the early 80's and requires precise route running and accurate passing to allow the receivers to run with the ball after short completions. Defenses have had >25 years to adjust and game plan to deal with this (read how to play defense by Parcells) ... and even so ... "precise route running and accurate passing" ... 'nuf said.

Interesting post. What teams still run the so called West Coast offense? The Eagles, Vikings (?), Redskins, and who else?

[Brokenstriker]

I wouldn't include the Eagles ... granted they have a one of a kind talent in Westbrook as a receiver ... but considering the one of a kind status ... that should be a warning sign to other OCs ... "do not proceed with out rare and applicable talent at RB"

I wouldn't include the Vikings either ... but I haven't seen enough of them this season. Certainly Farve the gunslinger isn't an ideal WC QB ... but I'm sure he can play that tune if the OC hums a couple bars.

You could add Seattle to the list ... so with the Skins and the Seahawks that's ... 4W 8L ... the 24th (Skins) and 23rd (Seahawks) ranked Total Offenses

yippie

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Originally Posted by KMDeMuth

Rather then arguing over the QB situation, can we agree on any of this?

Jason does not fit this offense, slow release, slow at making decisions, makes bad decisions under pressure and has a fear of running.

The offensive line can not block or protect and Campbell doesn't have time.

I don't believe JC is a 'bad' QB. I think he is an average starting QB in the NFL. (and i just lost half the people reading this...ha ha) He is a QB who needs time to make decisions and when he makes bad decisions, he is mentally out of it the rest of the game. The O-line can not give him time, he doesn't fit the offense and he can't mentally adapt enough to make up for his lack of a physical fit in this "system." (not his fault he has coaches, a line and a system he doesn't fit with, but he sure is bad in it)

Anyway, Short-term fix is someone who makes up for what he can't do...
-Quick release
-Quick decision making
-Sound decisions (throw it away, run the ball, tuck it in and take the sack)
-Doesnt get screwed up when he makes poor decisions (ask his college coaches?)
___________________

Do you think Collins is enough of an improvement just because he makes better decisions and doesn't get screwed up mentally?...he is a veteran.

Should we cut Wynn 'again' and bring in Jeff Garcia who makes up for a bit more in this system then Collins does? (but makes more mistakes)

Is there any other veterans available?

Should we bring in chase from the practice squad of the saints? (if we even can)

Some people on ES are even recommending we let the Jason Campbell clone on the PS play... (i'd guess a lot more issues would come from that...)

Do we stick with Campbell knowing what we know? (again, i like the guy, but the geniuses upstairs brought in an offensive scheme that doesn't fit him or 90% of the players and ignored the O-line)

Its past the trade deadline, limited options and no real "quick fix" but at-least they could make it less painful. Should the skins not mess with the QB situation and go shopping for young O-line on practice squads around the league?
___________________

Another Question... It was said in the past few weeks that in a "true" west-coast offense the receivers run a route and 'stop.' The QB goes through a quick read of his options and makes a quick decision. It was noted that Redskins receivers did not 'stop' which further hurt the processes and decisions being made. Did anyone notice a change in how receivers played tonight, do you think sherm. is working on that if its an issue?

What's available? Have you ever taken snaps behind center? Would you play for vet min?

In all seriousness, I would consider bringing in Garcia for a work out if I were them. I don't think they confidence in Collins. If they did, wouldn't he already be playing? Maybe I would consider trying to get Chase Daniel. I don't know if he is third qb or PS right now in NO. I think the fans would get enjoyment out of watching Chase Daniel run around trying to make plays.

Playing Campbell doesn't make much sense anymore. He doesn't give you a better chance to win then other QB's, and you're not developing him for the future or trade value. I would strongly consider doing something else with the position.

[skinsfan36]

jeff garcia...and well jp losman would be better than campbell

[Farmer Ted]

Originally Posted by KMDeMuth

Anyway, Short-term fix is someone who makes up for what he can't do...
-Quick release
-Quick decision making
-Sound decisions (throw it away, run the ball, tuck it in and take the sack)
-Doesnt get screwed up when he makes poor decisions (ask his college coaches?)

During last week's game Gannon spent time showing and talking about Campbell's poor footwork, and Gruden did the same thing last night. They both said that the footwork caused him to be late and inaccurate on his throws. JC is like one of those 6'10" project power forwards who have the build, but never develop because they don't have the footwork in the low post. He's five years in, and this isn't going to change (among his other problems, like being dumb).

[shally]

Originally Posted by Farmer Ted

During last week's game Gannon spent time showing and talking about Campbell's poor footwork, and Gruden did the same thing last night. They both said that the footwork caused him to be late and inaccurate on his throws. JC is like one of those 6'10" project power forwards who have the build, but never develop because they don't have the footwork in the low post. He's five years in, and this isn't going to change (among his other problems, like being dumb).

we will have a different offensive scheme next season.. no reason to sign garcia for this season-- it is already lost

[KMDeMuth]

I know the obvious problems JC is having with foot-work. (btw i laughed at the happy feet post in the game-day thread) I wouldn't say JC is just plain inaccurate, he needs time to do everything and doesn't have it. He just doesn't fit in this system and just about anything less then a mobile QB isn't going to have time with this O-line.

O-line sucks, first thing a guy out of the league for 4-5 years says is that fundamentals are bad. Zorn's big thing is supposed to be QB development, but atm JC is digressing. Many people are now saying its not the play calling, but the players. We know they don't fit this system and no QB 'fits' this O-line. Is the problem really coaching still? Are they just not prepared properly? Like Thomas said, are the people who might fit the system better, just not given opportunities?

All that seeming true there is a fundamental coaching and system failure going on here. Is there anything they can do at this point to make the games watchable, put a band-aid on the cut until someone can fix it? Whats available? (rather hope there is a chance vinny/zorn get fired and someone tries to do something besides saying... "guess we get a top 5 pick and lets give up")

Is Garcia a 'mobile' (is he still?) stop-gap who knows the real west-coast enough to give more then padded stats? Is there O-line help out there or even on this team they aren't giving opportunities because of bad coaching?

Would everyone rather quit discussing this and just give up? I'd like to hope even with the inept coaching and front office that they'd try to do...something.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Originally Posted by shally

we will have a different offensive scheme next season.. no reason to sign garcia for this season-- it is already lost

I would think Gracia would play for a one year deal.

I don't see how they can keep running Campbell out there. And it seems they have decided Collins is not an improvement.

Don't they owe it to the fans to try to do something to improve the offense for the next 9 games?

[RedskinsDave]

What's available? 2-14.

[shally]

Originally Posted by SkinsfaninNJ

I would think Gracia would play for a one year deal.

I don't see how they can keep running Campbell out there. And it seems they have decided Collins is not an improvement.

Don't they owe it to the fans to try to do something to improve the offense for the next 9 games?

too bad we dont have either Chase or Colt to give starting reps to..