Why didn't we go after Holmes?

[bigcmr]

Simple we dont have any draft picks to throw around.

[lorimike]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

Soooooo, if a 4th round pick was all it took, then why didn't we pull the trigger on Santonio? I was NOT a fan of the McNabb deal, but it seems like a young talent like Holmes would merit a 4th rounder, and we might of been able to do a 5th given that the Steelers would've liked to have gotten him out of the AFC. No deal, really? Isn't he just the type of receiver we need here?

He's Santann Moss plus he has off the field issues. Eh, I'd take a pass.

[Moe]

Originally Posted by whiskeytown

well Marshall might be a selfish/headcase type.... but i dont think he's been in trouble with the law.
Holmes now has 4 incidents involving police and now a drug suspension.

He was arrested 4 times between '06-'09 and was suspended in '08 for three games as a result. He also had 7 police related incidents with a former girlfriend that he had a long, nasty history with.

Both of them are idiots, but Marshall is a better player.

[whiskeytown]

Originally Posted by Moe

He was arrested 4 times between '06-'09 and was suspended in '08 for three games as a result. He also had 7 police related incidents with a former girlfriend that he had a long, nasty history with.

Both of them are idiots, but Marshall is a better player.

oh, i musta missed that then!

woops.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

ESPN said the steelers would have waived him if they could'nt have found anybody they could have traded him too.

[Emmanouel8]

Originally Posted by lorimike

He's Santann Moss plus he has off the field issues. Eh, I'd take a pass.

I agree, if Moss were playing on the Steelers he would have similar if not better numbers then Holmes. Shanahan likes the bigger WR, so with Moss on the roster anyways what interest would he have for another smaller WR?

I disagree with any sentiment that disregards a 4th rounder not being valuable. You can get a good guard in that round and in Shanny's case in particular a 1000 yd RB. So why trade that for a WR that doesn't fit?

[HanburgerBum]

I would have given a 4th rounder for Holmes before I would ship a 2nd and a 3rd for McNabb--assuming Santonio would sign a reasonable contract extension.

For one thing, Holmes is a lot younger--still young enough to be a part of any rebuilding process. For another, a 4th rounder is a heck of a lot cheaper than a 2nd and a 3rd.

Yes Holmes does bring baggage, but so do other players. Randy Moss supposedly brought baggage but turned out to be one of the all-time steals for a 5th round pick. Many in this chat room were and are in favor of trading for Cincoocho and Brandon Marshall. They don't bring baggage?

One thing this Holmes deal points out is how precious draft choices are. Teams just don't squander them like the Redskins do. A former mid-first rounder and productive player like Holmes brought so little in a trade? It doesn't bode well for what Wash can get for Haynesworth and Campbell.

[SkinsGuru77]

Originally Posted by HanburgerBum

I would have given a 4th rounder for Holmes before I would ship a 2nd and a 3rd for McNabb--assuming Santonio would sign a reasonable contract extension.

For one thing, Holmes is a lot younger--still young enough to be a part of any rebuilding process. For another, a 4th rounder is a heck of a lot cheaper than a 2nd and a 3rd.

Yes Holmes does bring baggage, but so do other players. Randy Moss supposedly brought baggage but turned out to be one of the all-time steals for a 5th round pick. Many in this chat room were and are in favor of trading for Cincoocho and Brandon Marshall. They don't bring baggage?

One thing this Holmes deal points out is how precious draft choices are. Teams just don't squander them like the Redskins do. A former mid-first rounder and productive player like Holmes brought so little in a trade? It doesn't bode well for what Wash can get for Haynesworth and Campbell.

I Repectfully Disagree, There is bringing baggage to a team and then there is a history of breaking the law and being arrested. In the new NFL were goodell is suspending players for this type of behavior you see a value drop in his trade value. Comparing a Pro Bowl QB who's position is the most important in football to a WR is unfair. Most analyst agree the Redskins got McNabb for an excellent price. I do agree that Campbell will not fetch much on the Market but Haynesworth should have significant Value. The Redskins have already paid him 32 million of the 41million Guarenteed money and he is arguably in the top 3 defensive tackles if not top 10 Defensive Players in the NFL. I would have to think he would fetch at least a 2nd round draft pick and maybe some players to boot. Just my Opinion

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by HanburgerBum

Yes Holmes does bring baggage, but so do other players. Randy Moss supposedly brought baggage but turned out to be one of the all-time steals for a 5th round pick. Many in this chat room were and are in favor of trading for Cincoocho and Brandon Marshall. They don't bring baggage?

How many times has Ochocinco been arrested? How many times has he been suspended by the league? Marshall's been arrested a few times, but never suspended by the league. The next time Holmes runs afoul of the drug policy, he's gone for an entire year and he's shown that he just won't stop smoking pot. He had that rep at OSU, he had that rep during the run up to the draft where he was taken and he's had that rep in the league.

There's baggage in the Ochocinco/Randy Moss sense, then there's baggage in the Santonio Holmes/Jared Allen sense. One gets you suspended from the league, one doesn't. And Holmes' production hasn't been good enough to justify the headaches(60ish catches for 900ish yards with 5 Tds on average).

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

How many times has Ochocinco been arrested? How many times has he been suspended by the league?

Thank you. I frankly get tired of Ocho's name being dragged in the mud alongside players with legitimate issues. The guy is a goofball, sure, but he loves football and is great for the game.

Chad has plenty of talent and productivity to back up the talking.

[HanburgerBum]

Originally Posted by SkinsGuru77

I Repectfully Disagree, There is bringing baggage to a team and then there is a history of breaking the law and being arrested. In the new NFL were goodell is suspending players for this type of behavior you see a value drop in his trade value. Comparing a Pro Bowl QB who's position is the most important in football to a WR is unfair. Most analyst agree the Redskins got McNabb for an excellent price. I do agree that Campbell will not fetch much on the Market but Haynesworth should have significant Value. The Redskins have already paid him 32 million of the 41million Guarenteed money and he is arguably in the top 3 defensive tackles if not top 10 Defensive Players in the NFL. I would have to think he would fetch at least a 2nd round draft pick and maybe some players to boot. Just my Opinion

I will certainly agree that a QB is worth more than a WR. I even think McNabb is a very good QB, but I just don't think he is right for the Redskins--given the current status of the team.

I believe the Redskins need to rebuild with young players, not patch here and there with older players. By the time the rest of the team gets good enough, McNabb would be too old. That's assuming the Skins can sign McNabb to an extension. I think there is a real possibility that McNabb won't sign a reasonably-priced extension. I wouldn't if I were he. He should play out 2010 and evaluate just where the team is at before committing the handful of years he has left to any team that is not a contender. Of course, the Skins can always force the issue by over-paying McNabb and make him an offer he can't refuse, just like they did with Haynesworth, Lloyd and Archeletta.

Holmes' history does cause alarm. But, a 4th rounder may be worth a gamble.

As for what Wash can get for Haynesworth and Campbell, I am concerned that it will be far less than what the fans would expect. The chat room seems to believe that Haynesworth is worth a little more than a 2nd rounder, while Campbell is probably in the late 3rd-early 4th range. I would settle for that, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if it is significantly less than that.

With the open conflict between Shanahan and Fat Albert and the McNabb trade, the Redskins have been placed in a terrible trading position. Plus, Haynesworth isn't exactly a player with a great team attitude either. Moreover, no 3-4 team would touch him with a 10-foot pole. As for Campbell, I think he should be worth more than a late 3rd. But, I am not sure the other NFL teams share my opinion.

Every team knows that Wash has to get rid of these two players, and teams will be looking to get a bargain instead of giving full market value.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

Thank you. I frankly get tired of Ocho's name being dragged in the mud alongside players with legitimate issues. The guy is a goofball, sure, but he loves football and is great for the game.

Chad has plenty of talent and productivity to back up the talking.

There aren't many harder working players in league history than him. The reason the Bengals have big couches in their locker room is because Ochocinco sleeps there during the season because he's watching tape all night long. Talentwise, he's a decent player, but his success is because he knows everything about who he's facing on the field.

[paulskinsfan]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

How many times has Ochocinco been arrested? How many times has he been suspended by the league? Marshall's been arrested a few times, but never suspended by the league. The next time Holmes runs afoul of the drug policy, he's gone for an entire year and he's shown that he just won't stop smoking pot. He had that rep at OSU, he had that rep during the run up to the draft where he was taken and he's had that rep in the league.

There's baggage in the Ochocinco/Randy Moss sense, then there's baggage in the Santonio Holmes/Jared Allen sense. One gets you suspended from the league, one doesn't. And Holmes' production hasn't been good enough to justify the headaches(60ish catches for 900ish yards with 5 Tds on average).

Holmes had 1200+ yards last year and 5 tds. That's way better than Moss. Another thing, he was had for a 5th rounder, not a 4th as I posted earlier but a 5th rounder. He is better than Moss and younger. I hear what everyone is saying, and totally respect that, but when you can get a guy who automatically becomes the best receiver on your team for a 5th rounder, heck do it!

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

[/b][/b]
Holmes had 1200+ yards last year and 5 tds. That's way better than Moss. Another thing, he was had for a 5th rounder, not a 4th as I posted earlier but a 5th rounder. He is better than Moss and younger. I hear what everyone is saying, and totally respect that, but when you can get a guy who automatically becomes the best receiver on your team for a 5th rounder, heck do it!

No, you don't.

Holmes had very good production last year, but he's also a major headcase who'll be suspended for the first 4 games and is in a walk year. It should be telling that the Steelers couldn't do better than a 5th for him considering his production. Either teams thought he was a product of the system around him(and a mid round rookie posting nearly 800 yards last year for the Steelers also would tend to confirm that) or teams didn't think that he was worth the trouble. Before you say "What about Randy Moss a few years ago..." teams thought Moss was done physically, the Pats privately worked out Moss and knew that he wasn't.

Holmes is a talented WR, but he's just not worth the trouble.

[Red Bear]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

No, you don't.

Holmes had very good production last year, but he's also a major headcase who'll be suspended for the first 4 games and is in a walk year. It should be telling that the Steelers couldn't do better than a 5th for him considering his production. Either teams thought he was a product of the system around him(and a mid round rookie posting nearly 800 yards last year for the Steelers also would tend to confirm that) or teams didn't think that he was worth the trouble. Before you say "What about Randy Moss a few years ago..." teams thought Moss was done physically, the Pats privately worked out Moss and knew that he wasn't.

Holmes is a talented WR, but he's just not worth the trouble.

i agree with this fully. plus the fact a WR with his production last year only fetched a 5th rounder should tell you all you need to know about Holmes and how is viewed by others around the league. and it was reported the steelers started calling just about everyone to move him, also that players in the steelers locker room are happy he is gone